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at a remote distance, when we have millions of good land lying idle and uncultivated close at hand.


I let us wait until the country is partially settled before we talk about building this road.

Mr. GRINNELL. The Illinois Central railroad was built when there was nobody at some points within twenty miles of it. Mr. HARDING, of Illinois. I was out there at the time and know all about the subject.


Mr. ELIOT. I understand that a message has come from the Senate asking for a committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on Senate bill No. 26, to encourage telegraphic communication between the United States and the island of Cuba and other West India islands, and the Bahamas. I move that the request be granted.

The motion was agreed to; and the Speaker appointed Messrs ELIOT, O'NEILL, and TAYLOR as managers of said conference on the part of

the House..


Mr. LONGYEAR. I ask the Clerk to read extracts from the original act of incorporation in reply to what has been said here, and to show that the pending bill does not make any change with the exception of granting an extension of the time.

The Clerk read as follows:

SEC. 4. And be it further enacted, That whenever said Northern Pacific Railroad Company shall have twenty-five consecutive miles of any portion of said railroad and telegraph line ready for the service contemplated, the President of the United States shall appoint three commissioners to examine the same,

and if it shall appear that twenty-five consecutive

miles of said road and telegraph line have been completed in a good, substantial, and workmanlike manner, as in all other respects required by this act, the commissioners shall so report to the President of the United States, and patents of lands as aforesaid shall be issued to said company, confining to said company the right and title to said lands, situated opposite to, and coterminous with, said completed section of said road; and from time to time, whenever twenty-five additional consecutive miles shall have been constructed, completed, and in readiness as aforesaid, and verified by said commissioners to the President of the United States, then patents shall be issued to said company conveying the additional sections of land as aforesaid.

SEC. 8. And be it further enacted, That each and every grant, right, and privilege herein are so made, and given to, and accepted by said Northern Pacific Railroad Company, upon and subject to the following conditions, namely, that the said company shall commence the work on said road within two years from the approval of this act by the President, and shall complete not less than fifty miles per year after the second year, and shall construct, equip, furnish, and complete the whole road by the 4th day of July, anno Domini 1876.

Mr. STEVENS. Mr. Speaker, this question, like all great national questions, ought not to be discussed and is not to be decided either by buffoonery or vulgar denunciation. There are times and places when such things are pertinent, but not in the grand council of the nation when considering a great question of national importance. There we ought to have the calm judgment operating upon well ascertained and not perverted facts.

There are large minds that can take in the whole of a nation. There are small minds that can see only the purlieus of Delaware county or other places. What does not affect them cannot affect the great questions of legislation. There are none such here of the latter kind. I refer to that simply as illustration. [Laughter.] Now, let us see how we can look over this whole nation, from the Pacific to the Atlantic ocean, and not inquire how this particular measure affects my village or my constituents alone, but how it affects this great nation and posterity; for this is a subject worthy to command a consideration of this kind; and when that is done, and the facts which have been grossly perverted by gentlemen who have made their speeches here shall be put right before this House, I shall willingly leave it to the cool and sober judgment and candid action of this American Congress, and

whatever may be their decision upon the question I shall submit to with pleasure. I may regret a decision that is adverse to what I deem to be the interest of the nation, but I shall have no complaint to make against any. None who have fairly treated it can fairly be complained of, for they had a right so to treat it.

In the first place, therefore, let us consider the importance of this question. Is it as important as I have indicated? In the second place, let us consider the liability or the risk which this nation is to incur; whether we are to embarrass the finances of the country, as the heated imagination of some gentlemen seem to suppose by this measure. For if this is to take from other and more worthy objects, such as the compensation to our soldiers and sailors, and especially our one-legged soldiers, [laughter,] I certainly shall expect no man to

vote for it.

In my judgment it is the most important measure ever presented to an American Congress, and it is one in which the most good can be conferred upon this nation and upon posterity with the least possible risk.

But before I enter upon that view I will take up a few of the preliminary objections, so that the brush being cleared away we may build more firmly upon a solid foundation.

Our distinguished friend from Illinois [Mr. WENTWORTH thinks there are no records, no by-laws of this company. Now, I know that people as far out West as Chicago are not to be expected to enter into the light literature of the East, and read the matters connected with the great western railroads, and therefore I do not wonder that my friend had no knowledge that a book called "the Northern Pacific Railroad Company and its Charter and Organization," which I hold in my hand, containing the charter, the by-laws, and the original organization of the company, existed.

Mr. WENTWORTH, Will the gentleman allow me a word?

Mr. STEVENS. Certainly.

Mr. WENTWORTH. I appeal to every member present if I did not call for the records; if I did not ask gentlemen to send them to the Clerk's desk and have them read; and no one dared to offer any. No one has said to me that there were any, although I have repeatedly asked for them, and would be glad to read them.

Mr. STEVENS. Mr. Speaker, I admit my delinquency in not immediately answering the gentleman, but I am very much opposed to interruption. If the gentlemen will allow me [presenting a copy] I will respectfully tender a copy to him now. [Laughter.]

Mr. WENTWORTH. Thank you, sir; much obliged. [Laughter.]

Mr. STEVENS. That is the commencement of it, and that shows that there was a thorough organization of that company. A very ardent friend of this road, who had spent at least eight years of his life before he com pleted the grant by obtaining this charter, was made president of it-Mr. Perham, a man as honest as ever lived. He believed he was capable at the time of carrying it through without anything further, but his health failed him, or I believe verily he would have gone, like those who drummed up from house to house through New England, and obtained subscriptions enough to have built it. His health failed and he was obliged to give way. He found he could not attend to it. The time was passing round when he was obliged to commence it. He was applied to by a party of men for the purpose of purchasing the franchise, and if he had been what gentlemen suppose everybody connected with this institution is a swindler, a robber, a speculator-he would have taken their bonus and given them the franchise; but, like an honest man, he refused it. And I send to the Chair now a letter from the present president of the road in answer to a letter of inine.

The Clerk read the letter, as follows: COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE, NORTHERN PACIFIC RAILROAD COMPANY, No. 258 F STREET, WASHINGTON, D. C., April 25, 1866. DEAR SIR: I have the honor to acknowledge receipt of yours of this date inquiring:

1. Whether the Northern Pacific railroad has been legally organized, and when and whether any report has ever been published by the company.

2. Whether there has been any change in the board of directors since the first election, and when and who now constitute the board, and their residences.

3. Whether anything was paid or agreed to be paid by the new directors as a bonus or otherwise for the change of management.

4. Whether anything, and what, has been done by the present board toward obtaining funds to build the road.

1. In reply to the first inquiry I would state that on the 7th day of December, 1864, the company was organized in accordance with the provisions of its charter, as appears by the report of the company, which I send accompanying this. The record of this organization, before the gentlemen now composing the board of directors were elected, was submitted to the examination of gentlemen of high legal position in the city of Boston, and their opinion given that the proceedings were regular and the organization legal and complete.

2. In reply to the second inquiry, the following gentlemen compose the present board of directors: J. Gregory Smith, St. Albans, Vermont; Onslow Stearns, Concord, New Hampshire; George Stark, Nashua, New Hampshire; R. D. Rice, Augusta, Maine: Edward S. Foley, Boston, Massachusetts; George C. Richardson, Boston, Massachusetts: James C. Converse, Boston, Massachusetts; Benjamin P. Cheney, Boston, Massachusetts; George II. Gordon, Boston, Massachusetts; Frank Fuller, New York; George Briggs, New York; Philander Rood, New York; L. D. M. Swett, Portland, Maine.

The last three were members of the old board. The others were elected on the 5th day of January last. 3. In reply to the third inquiry I would say: the change in the board of directors was effected at the solicitation of the members of the old board. The charter had been held by them for over a year, and

capitalists, or to obtain the funds necessary to justify the commencement of the work by the time limited in the charter, July 2, 1866.

Mr. STEVENS. Now, Mr. Speaker, that little book in which there is grand reading for youthful minds, shows the original charter and by-laws of the company, and a subscription they had been unable to secure the confidence of of $2,000,000, with the payment of ten per cent. The date of the organization of the company is December, 1864, in the village of Boston, [laughter,] and all the directors' names are there set down. As to these gentlemen, who are named as commissioners their duties were long ago discharged, my friend knows.

Mr. WENTWORTH. Will the gentleman, as he has sent me his book, allow me to quote it to him?

Mr. STEVENS. Certainly.

Mr. WENTWORTH. It has been publicly stated in this House that one of the Smiths living in Vermont was president of this road. This book which is sent to me as official authority ought to state the truth, and here I see that Mr. Perham is president.

Mr. STEVENS. Will the gentleman allow me to finish the record by comments?

Mr. WENTWORTH. You sent me this as the record.

Mr. STEVENS. I sent you the commencement of it. Send me the true

Mr. WENTWORTH. one, the last edition. [Laughter.]

Finding themselves unable to enlist the confidence of capitalists in this country they opened negotiations in the autumn of 1865 with the president of a company representing a large foreign corporation, to become the purchasers of the franchise of this company, with a view to make it a portion of a line then existing, which should be extended across the continent. This proposition, as I have been informed, remained open till January, 1866, this company, however, retaining the right to adopt other measures in the mean time to insure the construction of the road.

Pending these negotiations with the representatives of this foreign corporation the subject was presented to the consideration of leading capitalists of New England and other parts of the country, and they were strongly urged to engage in the enterprise, and thus save it either from utter failure from want of funds or from passing into the control of foreign capitalists.

The subject received a favorable consideration at the hands of these gentlemen, and they manifested a willingness to become identified with the enterprise, provided the management of the company could be placed in the hands of gentlemen whom they might select, and in whom they had confidence.

The gentlemen now composing the new directors were selected by capitalists of Boston and elsewhere to take the management of the company.

The new board were asked to relieve the old board from the legal liabilities of the company, for some of

which they had become personally holden, and to make immediate provision for the more pressing of these claims. An arrangement was accordingly made by which the new board stipulated to provide the means to pay such liabilities as were justly due from the company to an amount not exceeding $150,000.

This agreement has, so far as my knowledge extends, been faithfully executed. There was no bonus required, and none in any form paid, or agreed to be paid, for the surrender of the franchise, nor for any transfer of the management, nor for any purpose whatever.

4. In reply to the fourth inquiry, I would say that immediately after assuming the duties of their appointment, and with a view to save the charter and provide the means for the early prosecution of the work, the new directors conferred with leading capitalists and financial men of the country, asking their opinion as to the probable prospect of obtaining the necessary fund upon the stock of the company based upon the land grant.

The uniform opinion of financial men was, that with the amount of securities upon the market offering a more desirable investment, it would be impossible to obtain the funds necessary to justify undertaking the work. The result of this consultation was, that if the Government would lend its aid in some form of guarantee for a limited period, the stock would acquire a value, and capitalists would thereby be induced to invest, and the work might be undertaken with confidence in the ability of the company to prosecute it with vigor and economy.

To raise the funds for this purpose, and to afford a basis of credit with which the company may construct its road and thus develop not only its own resources but in a much higher degree the wealth of the country, we ask the temporary aid of the Government in the present form, confidently believing in the ability of the company to repay fully all that may be advanced by the Government, not only in kind but many fold in the incidental benefits which will result to our common country and to the world.

I have the honor to be, dear sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant, J. GREGORY SMITH. President Northern Pacific Railroad. Hon. THADDEUS STEVENS, M. C.

Mr. WENTWORTH. Allow me to ask a question. I understand that there are two bills before us. This subject comes before us, therefore, in two shapes. The gentleman is speaking to one of these bills. If he means the substitute, that substitute says three fourths of the directors shall be American citizens. Now, then, if the other quarter can be British capitalists they can own the whole of the stock. They can let Americans in as stool-pigeons and run it as an English institution.

Mr. STEVENS. I understand the gentleman's question to be an argument. Mr. WENTWORTH. An argument based on which way you answer the question.

Mr. STEVENS. Well, if the gentleman cannot decide that for himself, I will take it into consideration and give him an answer at another time.

Mr. Speaker, that letter dispels most of the scandal, most of the fiery denunciation of the two gentlemen from Illinois, [Mr. WENTWORTH and Mr. WASHBURNE,] and still more that of the gentleman from Ohio, [Mr. DELANO.] It takes from them, I think, the whole of the basis of their remarks.

I desire, however, before I proceed further, to call upon the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. BANKS] to say if he is acquainted with some of these men and what are their char


Mr. BANKS. I would rather not answer now. I propose to speak on the subject, and would like to say a few words at the close on that subject.

Mr. STEVENS. Very well. I will give the gentleman an opportunity before the expiration of my time.

Having shown who the present corporators are, men I will venture to say, from what I have learned from good authority, who are inferior to no set of men in the United States for energy and for skill in railroading, or for honor and integrity; having shown that this corporation is a true and vital corporation, let us proceed to inquire whether the object is worthy of the bill which we have before us.

I confess, sir, with some degree of humiliation that until it became my duty, two years ago, as chairman of the Committee on the Pacific Railroad, to examine thoroughly into this question, I was in a deplorable state of ignorance with regard to the great interests of the Northwest to be affected by this project.

I knew less about it if possible than some of these gentlemen who are now opposing the road. [Laughter.] But, sir, I did devote considerable labor; I waded through all I could find on the subject; the explorations of Lewis and Clark, the surveys of General Stevens, down to the latest and most interesting explorations of Captain Mullin.

I there learned, what I have hoped all know but what I was late in learning, that there was in those Territories land enough uninhabited, where scarcely a white man's foot had ever trod, to make eleven States, each equal in size to the State in which I reside, and that of those eleven States eight at least would each contain more arable land and land more fertile than the great State of Pennsylvania. It is true that in some of them there are many mountains, that there is much barren land; but not more in proportian to the whole area than there is in Pennsylvania and Virginia. And those very mountains, like the mountains of my own State, are the most interesting and valuable portions of the whole territory. My own State, filled with coal and other minerals, is very hilly and mountainous. Yet those very barren hills, every acre of them, are worth more than five times the number of acres in the grand valley in which I reside, and which is the most fertile and grain growing, I believe, of any in the Union.

And so it is with the very broken land, which is not arable, in the Territories to be traversed by this railroad. Those barren hills are filled with still more valuable minerals. Gold is yielded, not only in the sands of the rivers according to the Scriptures, but it is also found in the solid rock, and silver is found there in veins, pervading a larger portion of that territory than any other portion of the United States. And if I have not allowed my imagination to delude my judgment I declare to you that I believe this is the richest mineral region upon the face of the globe, and that it contains more solid acres of gold and silver and cinnebar and the other precious metals than any other like portion not only of the United States but of the world. I may be mistaken, but I challenge those who have read and examined the authorities to contradict me by known facts, and not by any imaginary statement of facts.

Now, there is northward of the forty-fifth parallel of latitude, and south of the BritishAmerican line, territory sufficient to make more than eight States, each equal to Pennsylvania, more than an average portion of which, a great deal more than an average portion of which, compared with the State of Pennsylvania, is arable and fertile land. I had supposed that it was a barren waste until I had informed myself, as I supposed it to be my duty, by examining the subject. But I find that the soil is more fertile than that of the beautiful garden spot of my own county, although that is highly cultivated. Along the Red river settlements, wherever the country has been opened, to the Selkirk settlements, spring wheat will produce at the rate of sixty bushels to the acre, a thing unheard of in Pennsylvania and in most of the States of this Union. The smaller kind of corn will yield from sixty to ninety bushels to the acre, and in grass the country is not rivaled by any portion of this Union.' Now, I assert I am giving no overdrawn picture, unless those who have dwelt there for years, and who are my guides, have misled me.

Now that is a country that is wholly unsettled. And that is the reason urged by my most respected friend from Illinois [Mr. WASHBURNE] for not building this railroad; the country is not settled, is not developed. Hence, I suppose he thinks it never should be. Sir, it is because it is not settled that I am in favor of aiding the construction of this railroad. These very railroads are in modern times the great civilizers, the great means for promoting the population of a country.

And roads were used for this purpose in ancient times, though not railroads operated by

steam. Rome built her solid roads which have stood until this day, her Appian and other ways, leading from her great city to her provinces so that people might be induced to settle there, because of the means afforded them to bring their products to market at small cost.

And what has really settled the great State of Illinois but her system of railroads, her means of communication with the Atlantic sea-board, where her people can find a market? Who would have gone there had their products been given no opening to market, her corn worth but ten cents per bushel, and cheaper to burn as fuel than to transport to market? When markets are opened where products will realize a fair price, people will settle there rapidly. And one of the main objects I have in moving this substitute is to settle this country along this road. Give to this railroad the means of living for a little while, of commencing to draw her breath until she reaches a vigorous youth, then she will go on herself and pay her parents all her expenses; and she will people this whole country.

Mr. Speaker, I happen to know the fact that a part of the scheme of this company is to bring into that region forthwith from Europe immigrants, first as laborers to build the railroad, and second as settlers on the land, which they will purchase as payment for their labor. A gentleman of Boston, one of the men named in this bill, one of the largest shipping merchants in the United States-I need not mention his name-informed me that he was along making preparations to send a line of vessels to the north of Europe, to bring from Germåny, from Norway, from Scotland, this very season, a large number of immigrants to settle upon that land, the climate of which is congenial with that in which they were raised and which they prefer; so that if this bill should pass it would not only be the means of securing the construction of this railroad, but it would establish a line of packets which would populate that country with the hardy freemen of the north of Europe, men who will always be upon the side of freedom, who will always be ready to aid us in any rebellious outbreaks which may come upon us from other quarters. Sir, God grant that we may soon fill up that country with such a population that, with the people of the great North, may be a counterpoise to the rebellious South, whose representatives when they come here will never permit us to do anything which may interfere with their projects. Sir, you must carry out this grand measure now if you are to do it ever.

And, sir, when you thus fill up that grand country, what have you done? You have furnished for this nation the productive industry of millions. You have furnished for the prod ucts of the manufacturing portions of the country an outlet to that great region. God grant that men who represent here the great manufacturing States, such as my own, where the loom and the anvil and the spindle are heard, may fully realize the bearings of this question, and understand how by voting against this measure from merely captious and narrow considerations, they assist to crush their own people and the interests of the nation.

But sir, by the passage of this measure, we not only help to fill up that country with a population of which I doubt not we shall be proud, but we aid in establishing across this continent a great thoroughfare between India and Asia and the millions of Europe. None of the great thoroughfares of communication with Asia or India ever carried half the wealth that would be carried upon this grand thoroughfare, starting not simply from Boston or Portland, but starting from Philadelphia, from New York, and every enterprising sea-port of the country and extending in the direction I have mentioned.

By such a measure as this, sir, we bind together our nation, because by it the countless millions which would soon swarm into that western world would be united by bonds of interest-of affection I hope, but certainly of

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interest, which is stronger-with those of the East, so that in the next half century, when this country shall count its hundreds of millions of inhabitants, no man shall wish to break loose from this great nation, this brotherhood of freemen. Is there nothing in a consideration like this? Cannot my friends around me realize its force?

I know, sir, that some western people think there can be no western railroad unless it starts from Chicago. That is a narrow view. I do not expect this railroad to start from Lancaster or pass through Lancaster. I should be ashamed if any such motive should influence my vote upon this great question. But I do know that when this immense commerce comes upon those great inland lakes, a series of lakes more grand than the Baltic and the Black sea, it will distribute itself according to the enterprise and necessities of the different sections of the country. Some will go to Cleveland; some will go to Erie; some will go to Buffalo; some will pass on below; and what is left will go to Ogdensburg and thence find its way across New England. I perhaps ought not to speak thus loudly of a section of our country which some have threatened to "leave out in the cold." But it will affect them all. The far-seeing men of that region are willing to take their chance.

It extends the great thoroughfares from Erie, from Cleveland, from Chicago. We judge it will establish such a system of railroads as will be to the interest of the whole country. Gentlemen talk about speculators and about particular sections. They would warp this down to a speculation for building up a particular section of the country. It is nothing of the kind.

Mr. Speaker, I am not well, and I am afraid that I have been somewhat diffuse. A man is always diffuse when he is feeble, and always feeble when he is diffuse. [Laughter.]

Now let me proceed with the consideration of this bill. Two years ago a munificent grant of uncultivated lands was made to this company. What did we grant? Nothing at all. By our general law any man could go and take up any one of those sections without paying a dollar. We only aggregated on the same terms what individuals might take up. We granted to this corporation what each individually could have taken for himself under our preemption laws. When we grant lands to. railroad companies we are not granting anything the Government has, because the Government gives it to every man who goes there.

They say by this bill we are incurring great liabilities. What are they? The amendment of the bill provides that when they have twentyfive miles of the road built, and only then, shall the Government guaranty any money. When they have built twenty-five more we are to guaranty more. We only guaranty the payment of interest as the road is constructed. At the end of twenty years all liability is to cease. This road will pay every dollar of interest by tolls alone. If it does not the Secretary is authorized at the end of ninety days to sell the land.

The gentleman from Illinois caviled in reference to the section granting a relief from taxation for two years. In the substitute I have stricken it out. It provides that all the directors shall be citizens of the United States. The gentleman is afraid we will have foreign capital in it. I hope we will get capital from Frankfort, for by the contraction of currency which has been provided for at this session we may need it. It is provided in the amendment that the Government shall be called upon to guaranty for the first year fifty miles, for the second year one hundred and fifty, third year three hundred and fifty, and in 1870, five hundred and fifty. If they cannot be called upon faster than that, why no one will doubt that by 1870 the whole will be paid. The most that any moment can be charged is $1,000,000. Yet they talk of $60,000,000 or $70,000,000.

I know, from a distinguished source, of a

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wagon road from Sacramento to the valley of Nevada paying tolls on supplies from miners of over one million dollars. When this railroad gets into the valley of Nevada it will pay three times the amount suggested. Making one hundred miles off or two hundred miles off you strike the head waters of the Missouri, and I say that the carrying trade-not to speak of emigration-that the carrying trade to supply the miners of that country will pay twentyfive per cent. three times over. Gentlemen delude themselves, and try to delude others, when they talk of loss to the Government. It will be recollected all these things are in the amendment I have proposed.

This is a road which will run all the year unobstructed by snow. Among the information I obtained when I was chairman of the committee was that the buffalo went there to spend the winter to get away from the Black hills where they staid formerly. I learned that at Walla Walla, in forty-six degrees, the mean temperature was precisely like that of Washington. In the Willamette valley, in forty-eight degrees, it was precisely that of Philadelphia in forty degrees. And so on.

I am afraid that there is not time enough left for the gentleman from Massachusetts. Mr. Speaker, how much time have I left? The SPEAKER. Ten minutes.

Mr. STEVENS. Now, sir, here is a road that certainly never can be obstructed by snow. It is a singular contrivance of nature that when you reach about the forty-seventh degree of north latitude there is a relaxation of cold, and a modification of climate. It is surprising, but it is a fact, that more than four or five degrees of latitude below that it is much colder than it is there. It is accounted for, as we all know, by the warm breezes from the Pacific ocean on that side of the mountains; and those extraordinary contrivances of nature, the hot springs, boiling at one hundred and twenty degrees during the whole year, some of them ten acres in surface, and heaped together for about one hundred miles, so that the snow never lies upon the ground there. There the buffalo finds a winter home. There the grass grows all winter; and there he lives and feeds when driven from other and more southern latitudes. These are strange facts to those who have not examined into this matter. A gentleman who has resided at the Dalles for seven years told me that last year from the mouth of Columbia river to his place; a distance of two hundred and fifty miles, there was no obstruction to the navigation of that river by ice. No wonder that my respectable colleague is afraid of rivalry with Philadelphia where the river is obstructed four or five times every year by ice. Sir, do not be afraid of such rivalry. You have a noble city if you have noble men. But I predict that when this road is built the city of Superior, at the head of Lake Superior, will be the great city of the West; for it will have behind it eight States of fertile land and noble and industrious freemen. I do not say that it will be grander, but it will be just as grand as other cities. Chicago will always be a noble and grand city; Philadelphia will be a grand city, but that also will be a great city.

Now, sir, I want the Central road built; but we have already appropriated largely for that; and I cannot understand how men who live along that route, and are to be benefited by it, can oppose this road. My friend from the Cleveland district [Mr. SPALDING] has made violent opposition to this bill on the ground of a want of funds. I thought I heard him the other day advocating an appropriation of $6,000,000 for the construction of a ship-canal around the falls of Niagara. Our funds have fallen off very much since that time, which was not a week ago. I find, also, that my friend from the Chicago district [Mr. WENTwORTH] is willing to take $13,000,000 from the Treasury for the Illinois canal. There is money enough for that purpose; and that was an absolute grant; whereas this is merely a grant of credit.

Mr. Speaker, my time is very nearly up, and

I will not pursue the subject. I hope the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. BANKS] will answer the question I put to him in regard to these incorporators, and for that purpose I yield to him the residue of my time."

Mr. BANKS. I did not exactly understand the question which the gentleman from Pennsylvania put to me.

Mr. STEVENS. The gentleman has heard read the names of the directors of this road, many of whom are from his own State. I wish to know the character and standing of those gentlemen in that community.

Mr. BANKS. They are certainly most excellent men, among the best representatives of the people of the East, and especially of the city of Boston. There are no more honorable men in this country; no men more interested in the welfare of the Government and of the people.

I could not, sir, in answering a question like this, express the views which I entertain of the interests of the eastern people in the completion of this work which has been under discussion; but if the House will allow me a little time, I should like to make some suggestions.

Mr. WASHBURNE, of Illinois. I hope the House will give the gentleman full time; and will also give time to some gentleman upon the other side to answer him.

Mr. PRICE. The only objection to that is, that we must take the vote on this question to-night.

Mr. WASHBURNE, of Illinois. So I say. Let us vote now.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. BANKS] has three minutes remaining of the time of the gentleman from Pennsylvania.

Mr. BANKS. I do not accept that. I desire to say to this House that both of my colleagues who represent the city of Boston are absent. Scarcely a speaker has discussed this question who has not more or less directly referred to the capitalists of Boston, and especially to the men who are officially or personally interested in this road. It would be a very unjust record to go to the country if no voice from that State should be heard in explanation of the position which those gentlemen occupy, and I think that the gentleman who has this measure in charge might at least allow time for that.

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to extending the time of the gentleman from Massachusetts?

Mr. WASHBURNE, of Illinois. Yes, sir; I object.

Mr. PRICE. I want to say to the House that after the previous question shall be sustained, if members are willing to remain here longer, I will yield to the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. BANKS] nearly the whole of the hour to which I shall be entitled. I have no disposition myself to discuss this matter further.

Mr. CONKLING. Has the gentleman any objection to allowing the gentleman from Massachusetts to proceed at his pleasure now, he having the floor when the gentleman concludes?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Illinois objects to that.

Mr. CONKLING. It is not a point for objection. If the gentleman from Iowa does not claim the floor the gentleman from Massachusetts can be recognized and can speak at his pleasure.

Mr. PRICE. I do not wish to shield myself behind the objection of the gentleman from Illinois. There are fifty members upon this floor who have been urging me to bring this matter to a vote to-day. Now, when the previous question shall have been sustained, I shall have an hour in which to close the debate, and if members are willing to remain here Í am perfectly willing to give the gentleman from Massachusetts nearly all my time. [Several MEMBERS, "That is right."] Then I now demand the previous question on the bill.

Mr. SPALDING. I move to lay the bill and the pending amendments upon the table, and upon that motion I demand the yeas and


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The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Iowa [Mr. PRICE] is entitled to one hour to close he debate upon this bill. The Digest says, "The right of the member reporting the pending measure is never denied him, even after The gen the previous question is ordered." tleman from Iowa, having demanded the previous question, is about to close the debate after the previous question has been seconded and the main question ordered. But in the mean time the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. SPALDING] moves to lay the bill, with the pending amendments, upon the table.

Mr. PRICE. Is that motion in order? The SPEAKER. It is, and it has priority of the demand for the previous question.

Mr. PRICE. Can he make that motion after the previous question has been demanded?

The SPEAKER. He can; but the gentle man from Iowa could have gone on and spoken his hour, if he had retained the floor, upon moving the previous question.

Mr. WASHBURNE, of Illinois. I submit that a motion to lay upon the table is not debatable.

The SPEAKER. That motion is not debatable; but the gentleman from Iowa stated distinctly to the House that he intended to move the previous question, and after it should be sustained to yield some of his time to the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. BANKS,] whom many members of the House desired to hear. That was distinctly understood; and if the motion to lay on the table fail, he will have a right, after the previous question shall be sustained, to the floor for one hour to close the debate, and can then yield it.


The reason for this rule is, that during a debate, which the member who has charge of bill allows to run on for hours, and sometimes days, so that all may be heard for and against the bill, some other member might move the previous question; and if the one in charge of the bill had not the right to close the debate, he would be cut off from making any reply to the arguments of those who were opposed to the bill; and therefore, under successive rulings of the Speakers of the House, the rule has grown up that, no matter by whom the previous question may be moved, the one in charge of the bill would still have the right to close the debate.

That, however, does not cut off the right of any member who may obtain the floor to move to lay the bill on the table, although it is not very often done under the circumstances, at the end of a debate, till the member reporting the bill, and who has allowed the debate on both sides, has made his closing speech.

Mr. PRICE. Have I the right to the floor for an hour, as the one who has charge of this bill, notwithstanding the motion to lay it on the table?

The SPEAKER. No, sir; the motion to lay on the table cuts off all debate.

The question was upon ordering the yeas and nays upon the motion of Mr. SPALDING to lay the bill and pending amendments on the table. The yeas and nays were ordered.

The question was taken; and it was decided in the affirmative-yeas 76, nays 56, not voting 51; as follows:

YEAS-Messrs. Ancona. Baker, Benjamin, Bergen, Blow, Boyer, Bromwell, Buckland, Bundy, Chanler, Reader W. Clarke, Cobb, Conkling. Cook, Cullom, Defrees, Delano, Deming, Denison Dumont, Eggleston, Eldridge, Farnsworth,. Farquhar, Finck, Glossbrenner, Grider, Hale, Aaron Harding, Abner C. Harding, Hayes, John II. Hubbard, James R. Hubbell, James M. Humphrey, Jenckes, Julian, Kasson, Ketcham, Latham, George V. Lawrence, William Lawrence, Le Blond, Marshall, Miller, Moorhead, Morrill, Morris, Moulton, Newell, Niblack, Nicholson, Orth, Pike, Plants, Samuel J. Randall, William H. Randall, Ritter, Ross, Sawyer, Scofield, Shanklin, Shellabarger, Spalding, Stilwell, Taber, Taylor, Thayer, Francis Thomas, Thornton, Ward, Elihu B. Washburne, Henry D. Washburn, Wentworth, Williains. Winfield and Wright-76.

NAYS-Messrs. Allison, Ames, Anderson, Delos R. Ashley, Banks, Baxter, Beaman, Bidwell, Bingham, Boutwell. Sidney Clarke, Darling, Dawes, Dodge, Donnelly, Driggs, Ferry, Grinnell, Griswold, Harris, Henderson, Higby, Hotchkiss, Asahel W. Hubbard, Chester D. Hubbard, Hulburd, Kelley, Kelso, Kuykendall, Laflin, Loan, Longyear, Lynch, Marston, Marvin, McClurg, McKee, McRuer, Myers, Patter

son, Perham, Price, John H. Rice, Rogers, Rollins, Rousseau, Stevens, Trowbridge, Upson, Burt Van Horn, Robert T. Van Horn, Warner, William B. Washburn, James F. Wilson, Windom, and Woodbridge-56.

NOT VOTING-Messrs. Alley, James M. Ashley, Baldwin, Barker, Blaine, Brandegee, Broomall, Coffroth, Culver, Davis, Dawson, Dixon, Eckley, Eliot, Garfield, Goodyear, Hart, Hill, Hogan, Holmes, Hooper, Demas Hubbard, Edwin N. Hubbell, James Humphrey, Ingersoll, Johnson, Jones, Kerr, McCullough, McIndoe, Mereur, Noell, O'Neill, Paine, Phelps, Pomeroy, Radford, Raymond, Alexander H. Rice, Schenck, Sitgreaves, Sloan, Smith, Starr, Strouse, John L. Thomas, Trimble, Van Aernam, Welker, Whaley, and Stephen F. Wilson-51.

So the motion to lay on the table was agreed to.

During the roll-call,

Mr. BLAINE said: I have paired on all votes relating to this question, with Mr. JOHN L. THOMAS. If he were here he would vote against the bill, and I would vote for it.

Mr. ELIOT said: I have paired with Mr. DIXON; he is opposed to the bill, and I am in favor of it.

Mr. CHANLER said: My colleague, Mr. HUBBELL, is paired with Mr. BALDWIN for two weeks.

Mr. MYERS said: My colleague, Mr. O'NEILL, is paired with Mr. SITGREAVES; Mr. O'NEILL would vote for the bill if he were here, and Mr. SITGREAVES would vote against it.

Mr. WHALEY said: I have paired with Mr. SMITH, who is called out of the House on important business; he is in favor of the bill, while I am opposed to it.

Mr. ANCONA said: My colleague, Mr. DAWSON, is paired with Mr. HUBBARD, of New York.

Mr. INGERSOLL said: I am paired with Mr. WALKER; he is opposed to the bill, and I am in favor of it.

The result of the vote was announced as above.

Mr. SPALDING moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was laid on the table; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table.

Pending which,

Mr. DARLING moved that the House do now adjourn.

The question was taken; and upon a division there were-ayes 52, noes 69.

Before the result of the vote was announced,
Mr. LYNCH called for the yeas and nays.
The yeas and nays were ordered.

The question was taken; and it was decided in the negative-yeas 57, nays 70, not voting 56; as follows:

YEAS-Messrs. Alley, Allison, Ames.. Anderson, Delos R. Ashley, Banks, Baxter, Beaman, Bergen, Bidwell, Bingham, Boutwell, Reader W. Clarke, Darling, Dawes, Dodge, Donnelly, Driggs, Ferry, Grinnell, Griswold, Hale, Harris, Henderson, Higby, Asahel W. Hubbard, Chester D. Hubbard, Hulburd, Ingersoll, Kelso, Laflin, Loan, Longyear, Lynch, Marston, Marvin, McClurg, McKee, MeRuer, Miller, Myers, Niblack, Patterson, Perham, Price, John H. Rice, Rogers, Rollins, Stevens, Trowbridge, Upson, Burt Van Horn, Robert T. Van Horn, Warner, James F. Wilson, Windom, and Woodbridge-57.

NAYS-Messrs. Ancona, Baker, Benjamin, Blow, Boyer, Bromwell, Buckland, Bundy, Chanler, Sidney Clarke, Cobb, Conkling, Cook, Cullom, Defrees, Delano, Deming, Denison, Dumont, Eggleston, Eldridge, Farquhar, Finck, Glossbrenner, Grider, Aaron Harding, Abner C. Harding, Hayes, Hotchkiss, John II. Hubbard, James R. Hubbell, James M. Humphrey, Jenckes, Julian, Kasson, Ketcham, Latham, George V. Lawrence, William Lawrence, Le Blond, Marshall, Moorhead, Morrill, Morris, Moulton, Nicholson, Orth. Pike, Samuel J. Randall, William H. Randall, Ritter, Ross, Sawyer, Scofield, Shanklin, Shellabarger, Spalding, Taber, Taylor. Thayer, Francis Thomas, Thornton, Ward. Elihu B. Washburne, Henry D. Washburn, William B. Washburn, Wentworth, Williams, Winfield, and Wright-70.

NOT VOTING-Messrs. James M. Ashley, Baldwin, Barker, Blaine, Brandegee. Broomall, Coffroth, Culver, Davis, Dawson, Dixon, Eckley, Eliot, Farnsworth, Garfield, Goodyear, Hart, Hill, Hogan, Holmes, Hooper, Demas Hubbard, Edwin N. Hubbell, James Humphrey, Johnson, Jones. Kelley. Kerr, Kuykendall, McCullough, MeIndoc, Mercur, Newell, Noell, O'Neill, Paine, Phelps, Plants, Pomeroy, Radford, Raymond, Alexander H. Rice, Rousseau, Schenck, Sitgreaves, Sloan, Smith, Starr, Stilwell, Strouse, John L. Thomas, Trimble, Van Aernam, Welker, Whaley, and Stephen F. Wilson-56.

So the motion to adjourn was not agreed to.

The question then recurring on the motion to lay on the table the motion to reconsider, it was agreed to.


Mr. TROWBRIDGE, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that the Committee had examined and found truly enrolled joint resolution (S. R. No. 56) authorizing the Secretary of the Treasury to adjust the claims of Beals & Dixon against the United States; which was thereupon signed by the Speaker.

ORDER OF PROCEEDING TO-MORROW. Mr. STEVENS. I move that the session of to-morrow be devoted exclusively to debate as in Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union upon the President's message. The motion was agreed to.


Mr. HALE asked and obtained leave of absence for two weeks.

E. WOODWARD AND G. CHORPENNING. Mr. HUBBARD, of Iowa, by unanimous consent, reported from the Committee on Indian Affairs a joint resolution for the relief of Elizabeth Woodward and George Chorpenning, and moved that the same be printed and recommitted.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. HUBBARD, of Iowa, moved to reconsider the vote by which the joint resolution was recommitted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. The latter motion was agreed to.


Mr. WASHBURNE, of Illinois, reported, from the Committee on Commerce, a bill (H. R. No. 481) entitled "An act to amend an act entitled 'An act to encourage immigration,' approved July 4, 1864, and an act entitled 'An act to regulate the carriage of passengers in steamships and other vessels,' approved March 3, 1855, and for other purposes.

The question being on ordering the bill to be engrossed and read a third time,

Mr. SPALDING moved that the House adjourn.


Mr. ROSS. I rise to a privileged motion. I understood the Chair to have decided the other day that we could get rid of and slough off this dead and putrid committee of fifteen, which has now become a stench in the nostrils of the nation. As the cholera is coming, and we should abate such nuisances

The SPEAKER. The Chair has not made any such decision nor used any such language.

Mr. ROSS. Well, I desire to call up the motion to reconsider the vote by which the joint resolution in reference to the State of Tennessee was recommitted to the committee of fifteen.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman cannot call up that motion now. In the first place, the pendency of the motion to adjourn; in the second place, the unfinished business, the bill just reported from the Committee on Commerce; and in the third place, the special order after the morning hour, the Army bill, all prevent that motion to reconsider being called up

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The following petitions, &c., were presented under the rule and referred to the appropriate committees: By Mr. ALLEY: The petition of David and Benjamin Low, for a new register to the schooner N. W. Rowe.

By Mr. BEAMAN: The petition of Robert Laird, and 85 others, citizens of Hillsdale county, Michigan, praying for increased duties on all foreign unwashed wool.

By Mr. BROOMALL: The petition of 400 citizens of Delaware county, Pennsylvania, asking for such change in the tariff and internal revenue laws as will protect American industry from foreign competition

and relieve the manufacturing and laboring interests of the country from the existing depression.

By Mr. CULLOM: The petition of Hon. George N. Minier, and numerous others, citizens of Tazewell county, Illinois, asking for protection of American wool.

By Mr. DEFREES: A petition from the citizens of Elkhart county, Indiana, on the subject of inter-State insurance companies for the protection of all classes of property,

Also, a petition from citizens of Whitley county, Indiana, directed to the Committee of Ways and Means, asking that "all medicines or preparations of the United States or other national Pharmacopoeia, &c., be placed in the free list."

By Mr. EGGLESTON: The petition of L. P. Bentley, and 80 others, post office route agents, of Ohio, praying for an increase of compensation.

By Mr. HOLMES: The remonstrance of John C. Churchill, and others, citizens of Oswego county, New York, against the passage of the bill reorganizing the judiciary.

By Mr. J. M. HUMPHREY: A petition for the passage of a uniform insurance law.

Also, a memorial of the brewers of Buffalo, New York, asking for the reduction of the tariff on barley imported from Canada.

Also, the petitions of James M. Smith, William J. Meek, and others, for American registers to vessels N. C. Ford and J. S. Austin.

Also, the petition of A. Sherwood, and others, for repayment to them of duties improperly collected. By Mr. KELLEY: The petition of eight leading firms in manufacturing of machinery, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, praying Congress to so modify the taxation on manufactured machinery as to bear equally on all productions when ready for final consumption; and in order to arrive at a true basis of taxation, each producer should be taxed only upon the additional value which he adds to the thing taxed, as indicated by its subsequent sale: also that an equivalent duty be imposed upon foreign productions of the same description.

Also, the memorial of 34 citizens, of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, respectfully praying that Congress will enact such just and equal laws for the regulation of inter-State insurances of all kinds as may be effectual in establishing the greatest security for the interests protected by policies, and promotive of the greatest good and convenience to all concerned in such transactions.

By Mr.KETCHAM: The petition of citizens of Red Hook, Dutchess county, New York, asking for increased protection on American wool.

By Mr. MORRILL: A petition of dealers in leaf tobacco and manufacturers of cigars, of Allentown, Lehigh county, Pennsylvania, asking for increased tariff on imported cigars, namely, to make uniform rate on all cigars and fix the tariff at three dollars per pound and fifty per cent. ad valorem.

By Mr. PLANTS: The petition of 200 citizens of Washington and Noble counties, Ohio, for a mail route from Beverly, in Washington county, to Sharon, in Noble county.

By Mr. VAN HORN, of New York: The petition of A. G, Gage, supervisor of the town of Alabama, Greene county, New York, for money paid for men twice under the call for troops.

By Mr. WILLIAMS: A memorial of wool-growers of Butler county, Pennsylvania, praying for increase of duty on foreign wools.

SATURDAY, April 28, 1866.

The House met at twelve o'clock m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. C. B. BOYNTON. The Journal of yesterday was read and approved.

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population in the eleven confederate States is 5,097,524. Deducting from this amount the estimated number of loyal people in those States, and adding the disloyal scattered through the other five slave States, will give the answer to my question. Making this deduction and addition from the most reliable data within my reach, I conclude that the disloyal population in the whole South will not exceed, if indeed it will equal, five million in all.

If the eleven confederate States were readmitted now (the Constitution and laws remaining unamended) what amount of representation in Congress and the Electoral College would this five million be entitled to claim? They would certainly have these eleven States. There could hardly be a doubt about Kentucky. For if the loyal men of that State, sustained by the power of the Federal Army and the persuasion of Federal patronage, with the young disunionists absent in the South and the old ones disfranchised at home, could scarcely hold their own, what could we expect them to do when these young men have returned, the disfranchising laws have been swept away, the Army removed or palsied by orders, and Federal patronage at least uncertain? This would give them twentyfour Senators. There are four more States that belonged to the slaveholding class. Delaware, Maryland, West Virginia, and Missouri. Is it any stretch of probabilities to suppose that two more Senators will be picked up somewhere in these four States by the confederate element? I fear there will be more. This will give them twenty-six Senators.

In the House of Representatives this population will have as large, if not larger, proportionate representation. By the apportionment of 1861, fifty-eight Representatives were assigned to the eleven confederate States. These States will be so districted by the hostile sentiment of their several Legislatures that not one true Union man can be elected. To the other five slaveholding States twenty-six were assigned by the act of 1861. If any one will take the trouble to look over these districts, I think he will come to the conclusion that even if the laws disfranchising rebels in Maryland, West Virginia, and Missouri remain in force, not less than half of these will be controlled by the influence and votes of the late secessionists. This gives them seventy-one Representatives in the House. But even this large number must soon be increased. The two fifths of the four million freedmen which were not counted in the representative basis of the last census must be counted in the census of 1870, and (other things remaining the same) add to that number thirteen members more; so that the five million disloyal population, as soon as their full power can be felt through the elections, will have at least twenty-six Senators and eighty-four Representatives and one hundred and ten votes in the Electoral College. This is a low calculation. When we consider the earnestness, or rather I should say the fierceness of these people, the ability, ambition, and courage of their leaders, we may well apprehend that the number will legitimate and certain under the laws as they be even greater. But this number is their own stand. Supposing the entire population of the United States to be thirty-five million now, this five million will be just one seventh of the whole, but will have more than one third the representation in both Houses of Congress, and more than one third of the Electoral College. The same amount of loyal population at the North is represented by only about half that number. If by factions or party division among the loyalists of the country, they could contrive to secure one sixth more of the representation, they would have a majority of the whole, and be able to control Federal legislation, elect the President, and distribute his patronage.

desire to use it. For the perpetuation of the Union? I fear not. They have come back to the Union, we should remember, only by coercion. To them it is a forced bridal. They submit to it, but they do not, because they cannot, embrace it in their hearts. The soldiers maimed, wives widowed, and children orphaned in their bad cause, appeal to their leaders for the promised support, but the Union has no pensions for them. The fortunes invested in confederate faith see no hope of realization in the Union. Hatred of the North and its anti-slavery majorities, the original motive for secession, is ten times stronger now than in 1861, and is backed up by $4,000,000,000 of debt, damages, and pensions, which, as they insist, could, in a separate government, be levied by an export duty upon the cotton-consuming world. The life-habits of these people, their love of ease and domination, their pride, aristocracy, wealth, and power were all the outgrowth of an institution which might possibly be revived in a separate republic, but which is forever gone in the Union. "Confederacy" is a word that must long be enshrined in their hearts by the tender memories of their fallen kindred, but it must live, as they well know, in the history, traditions, and ballads of the Union, associated with perjury, dishonorable crime, and cruel war. If they should profess to love the Union we could not believe them. It is so unnatural that it would be easier to believe they were hypocrites than that they

were monsters.

But they are neither hypocrites nor monsters. They do not love the Union, and do not pretend to. It is untruthful men of our own section that prevaricate for them. The same class of men that misrepresented the feelings of the North before the war, and thus deceived the South and goaded them into rebellion, now misrepresent the feelings of the South to deceive the North and lure it into irretrievable surrender. Before the war they deceived the South and betrayed the North; but now it is reversed, they deceive the North and betray the loyal South. The same perfidious breath that carried South the untruthful story of northern hate, and thus prompted the war, comes back now with another story, equally untruthful, of southern love. They tell us that the disloyal South is a gentle bride, impatient for the nuptials, when they know that she submits to them with loathing. Have they not laid down their arms? is the argumentative inquiry. No, sir; their arms were taken from them. Have they not submitted? No, sir; they were defeated in battle. There is nothing in their past conduct nor present attitude that justifies the use of the word submission. Prisoners of war have been taken, but they were released on parole; rebel armies have been dispersed, but they have been reorganized as State militia; rebel State governments have been overthrown, but again revived and restored to the old possessors; and forfeitures of life and estates have been remitted, but that is all. Call this clemency, privilege, triumph, victory, what you please, but do not call it submission, with which it has not one shade of meaning in common. We do not need to call witnesses to prove that these people are hostile to the Union and its interests. The history of the human race proves it. Whoever attempts to prove the contrary must first show that they are unlike any other people whose passions, struggles, and defeats are recorded in the annals of the world.

But witnesses have been called-Union generals and rebel generals, Union and rebel citizens, without distinction of party, condition, race, or color-and all support under oath the great historic truth, that a purpose imbibed in infancy, cherished and stimulated by the rostrum, press, and pulpit for a lifetime; upheld by large fortunes, wrung from the toil of slaves, and sanctified by the blood of sons and kin

When these States are admitted and these people come to have the unabridged control of this twofold representation, how will they desire to use it? I do not inquire how they possi-dred, has not been and cannot be surrendered bly may use it, nor even how they now expect or intend to use it, but how, if unrestrained by a united North, it would be their interest and

to military orders. Such a purpose surrenders only to time. I do not present this great truth now by way of reproof or condemnation of

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