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proposes to adjust the stand his amendment, it proposes that the human life, and struck as I am with that aspect tate of wages according to the length of time wages shall be reduced, as the hours are in of the case, I feel a little alarmed for myself, during which labor is performed. Now, as the point of time, to those paid by private persons and for a good many others around me; and eight-hour rule is not generally adopted in this in similar employment.

I beg to inquire of the Senator whether the country, and only in a very few places, it will Mr. STEWART. The amendment ofthe Sen bill cannot be amended in some way to embrace require an immediate reduction of the rate of ator from Ohio certainly, on no theory, would the members of the Senate, and put them on wages at our national workshops and places | be right, and I think on a moment's reflection an eight hour allowance, which I hope will of employment to the amount paid for eight || the Senator himself will see that, because I | prolong their lives ; because if it is true, as hours, or, in other words, it will reduce the believe it is admitted on all hands that men the Senator says, that ten hours labor tends to amount of wages paid one fifth. The effect will do more work per hour if they work eight abbreviate human existence, I should prepare of it would be to bring down the rate of wages, hours than they will if they work’ten hours a myself to bid farewell to almost all the gentlebecause the time for labor is shortened that day.

men I see around me. much. Mr. FESSENDEN. Who admits it?

Mr. STEWART. I do not think that is I intend to vote for this bill; and I will state Mr. STEWART. If not admitted, I think material, because, from the indications in the briefly my reason for so doing. I think it is it is a self-evident proposition. I think it is Senator's State, and others, there is a greater a good way to try the experiment which is now one of those axioms that require very little supply of material for Senators than for labor, being discussed throughout the United States, demonstration. I say a man will do more per and by working up gentlemen here we may and has been for some time. In the first place, hour who is only required to work eight hours reduce the supply so as to correspond with the the fundamental proposition on which this pro. a day than will a man who is required to work demand. The supply of Senators far exceeds posal is based is, that in regular mechanical ten hours. The less number of hours a man the demand. employments men will perform as much labor works the more he can do in the hours that he Mr. COLE. Mr. President, I know too in eight hours per day as they will in ten hours. || does work. That, I believe, will be taken as well the importance of time to spend more It is claimed that the rest, and the intellectual || true. This being so, it would not be fair to than a moment in discussing this question. A vigor and freshness imparted to operatives, 11 say that when we reduce the number of hours' few weeks ago I had the honor to present to will enable them to perform as much labor in work from ten hours to eight hours per day the Senate a very long petition signed by the eight hours as in ten. That is an experiment | the wages shall be reduced pro rata. That mechanics and laboring men of California, which can be very well tested in the Govera would be saying that an hour of the ten hours' asking for the passage of some law of this sort. ment workshops; for instance, in the navy was as good as an hour of the eight hours. That It was got up by some twenty or thirty separate yards and arsenals. If it shall turn out that would not be fair, because the theory is that laboring associations, and I believe that no peothere will be substantially as much labor per men can do more per hour if they only work || ple in the world are better able to judge of the formed in eight hours as in ten then the ques. | eight hours than if they work ten, so that eight | necessity or propriety of a measure of this kind tion is decided in favor of the eight-hour sys hours' labor becomes equivalent to ten hours' than the laboring classes within that State. tem, and it ought to be adopted, because the labor. Certainly, if a man only works a singleThere are, indeed, comparatively but few of country gets as much labor in the shorter time, bour a day, he can do more in that hour, make the people of the world who perform manual and therefore can afford to pay just the same greater exertions, than if he had to work every labor, not enough in proportion to the whole. I price for it. If the Government gets as much hour in the day. So to adjust the wages pro have a great admiration for that king of Prussia labor performed in eight hours as in ten the rata according to the number of hours would who requires each of his sons to learn some Government can afford to pay just the same not be fair.

trade, and to follow during his youth some me. price.

I do not agree with the Senator from Indiana chanical pursuit. If all those who are able to But, Mr. President, there are two or three in saying that the only question involved in this perform manual or mechanical labor were to other questions connected with this. If it is the amount of labor. I think there are a devote some small portion of their time to that shall turn out upon experiment that there is l good many other questions.

pursuit there would be no necessity for people pot as much labor performed in eight hours as Mr. MORTON. I did not intend to say working more than two or three hours a day. in ten, that the amount of labor performed that. I said that if the first question was I suppose the operation of this bill will be to falls off twenty per cent., then the next ques decided in the affirmative it would settle the l bring all mechanical labor down to the eighttion that comes up is this: can employers, | point that the eight-hour system should be hour system. I presume that is to be the result manufacturers, and other persons who employ || adopted. I said that if it turned out on experi of it if we pass it. I believe that eight hours' labor regularly afford to pay as much for labor ment that as much labor was performed in the labor in the mechanical pursuits, and in all when twenty per cent. of that labor is with Government workshops in a day of eight hours other branches of labor, is quite sufficient; drawn as they can pay for it at this time? Can as there is now in ten that would settle the that the residue of the time not devoted to they afford to pay as much for eighty per cent. question in favor of the eight-hour system. sleep would well be devoted to the improveas they can for a hundred per cent. and com

Mr. STEWART. But the converse of that ment of the mind and social faculties; and all pete with the world in our manufactures ? proposition, I maintain, would not necessarily American citizens should be enabled to devote Take the manufacturers and ship-builders, all be true, and I do not suppose the Senator some portion of their time to the cultivation of those who are carrying on extensive employ wished to be so understood. The system would the intellect. Our Republic stands upon the ments, or even the smaller employers, the not necessarily be rejected if there was not as intelligence of the people; it has no other farming community, for example, can' they much work done in the eight hours, because foundation; and unless the people are provided afford to pay as much for eight hours' labor as there might be other good results fowing | by law with some protection against the rethey can for ten, and compete successfully from it.

quirement which is now put upon them by the with foreign competition, and get along pros

Mr. MORTON. Certainly.

exorbitant demands of capitalists, they will perously? If they cannot, the question is

Nr. STEWART. There might be greater not be so well prepared to perform the duties decided against the eight-hour system, except

comfort given to the workingman; there might || of American citizenship. I am therefore very apon another hypothesis; and what is that? | be an improvement in the condition of society; || anxious for the passage of this bill. That the laboring men can afford to lose and if there should be an approximate amount

The fact is that in this age of machinery an twenty per cent. of their wages on account of of labor, something near the same amount as immense amount of labor is performed in a laboring two hours less during the day. If now, the other good results might be sufficient very short time. I believe in Great Britain the they can afford to take twenty per cent. off to justify the adoption of the reform.

labor of one hundred and fifty or two hundred their wages and have enough left to support I have no idea but that taking the term of millions is performed through the agency of their families and live upon comfortably, to

years through which men labor, an individual machinery, while the persons engaged in directeducate their children and do as well as they will, in the course of his life, accomplish more ing that machinery number but very few milare doing now, then the question is settled in with eight hours a day than he will with ten lions. We take advantage of these advances favor of the eight-hour system. hours a day labor. I think he will live longer,

that have been made in the invention and use These several questions are all connected so that in the course of his natural life he will of machinery. At the present time, by the use with each other, but the first question, and one

do more work if he works eight hours a day of machinery, the farmers of our country who the settlement of which will perhaps settle all regularly than he will if he works ten hours. formerly devoted their winters to threshing out the rest, is this: whether it is true, as argued, If you put the value of men on the amount of their crops are able to perform that work in a that as much labor will be performed in eight labor they can do in the course of their natural || day or two, and the consequence is that their hours as in ten if the eight-hour system shall lives I think men will be more valuable who sons are enabled to attend the public schools, become the regular system. Is there enough work eight hours a day than if they work ten and thus to improve themselves the better to gained to the operatives; is there additional hours a day. I think they will accomplish | perform the duties of citizenship. It seems to vigor imparted to them and additional indus more in the course of their natural lives ; they me every argument is in favor of this bill. I try which will bring about the performance of will not wear out so soon, and if there is any am decidedly in favor of its passage. as much labor in eight hours as in ten? If object in prolonging human life and increasing Mr. WILSON. I shall vote against the that is determined affirmatively by the

experi- | the aggregate of human happiness the argu amendment submitted by the Senator from ment in the Government work-shops, it goes ment would be in favor of this bill.

Ohio, for the reason that I wish to give the very far to settle the whole question. But, sir,

Mr. CONKLING. Will the Senator allow eight-hour labor movement a fair trial. I think it cannot be settled, and the experiment can me to make a suggestion ?

the Government of the United States, employnot be made, if the wages in the very begin.

Mr. STEWART. Certainly.

ing a few hundred mechanics and laborers, can ping are reduced twenty per cent., which would Mr. CONKLING. The Senator presents afford to try this experiment, and I shall vote be the practical effect of the amendment of this matter in view of the statistics of mortal to try the experiment. During the past few the Senator from Ohio, because, as I under ity, as to the effect of prolonged labor upon years much has been said and written on the

40TH Cong. 2D SESS.--No. 215.


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priation bill a special order for a particular hour to-day. That is exactly the form in which

being before the Senate, of course, as the Chair

subject of the hours of labor. I think the dis pass and it should become the habit and cus Mr. FESSENDEN. I object. cussions have been conducive to the interests toin of the country.

It is absurd to suppose

Mr. CONNESS. That being the case, I of the toiling men of the country. In nearly | that a man can earn as much in eight hours as move to postpone the business now before the all departments of industry the hours of labor he can in any larger number of hours; that is Senate for half an hour.

The PREN are less than they were forty years ago. During to say, if he is a man of average strength. If Mr. EDMUNDS. That requires a two-thirds this same period the prices of labor have been | he is a broken down man of course he cannot vote. increased, and the condition of the laboring | labor the full number of hours; but if he is a

Mr. CONNESS. Very well; we shall get men of the country improved. Reared upo man of average strength he can earn more in it. I hope the honorable chairman of the 19:01 a ları until I came to the age of manhood, I a larger number of hours than in eight hours. Committee on Appropriations will consent to was accustomed to work at least thirteen bours Mr. CONNESS. How do you know that? that, because we shall get a vote in that time a day. After attaining the age of twenty one Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. I know that of on this measure. I entered a mechanic's shop and worked inore my own experience, Mr. President. I sprung Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. If a vote could than fifteen hours a day. It is true I might from the laboriog classes. I have labored be taken on this measure without debate I have made the hours of labor less if I had myself never less than twelve hours in all my

should not feel authorized to interpose. chosen, but it was the custom to work inore life since I was fifteen years of age, and most

Mr. CONNESS. There will be very little april hours then than now, and I was anxious to work of the time much more than that. I believe further debate. as many hours and to accomplish as much as in leaving the people of this country at perfect Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. But at the same others, or as my strength would permit. Within liberty to make any contracts they please; and time I shall not feel authorized to give my own one generation the hours of labor have been as I was observing, if this should become the consent, if I have any control over the quesdiminished, both where men worked by the rule and custom of the country, a man with a tion, that the bill now before the Senate, which piece or by the day, on the farms or in the large family, who was compelled to work all of has been two days before the Senate, and which workshops, to the advantage, in my opinion, his time that his strength would permit, would || certainly ought to be pressed to an early vote, of all concerned.

be unable to support his family, because he shall give place to any bill unless it be one of I have heard much and read much of what

a poser could not obtain employment so as to work very iparked and peculiar character. bas been said and written on the subject of the more than eight hours in the day; for when Mr. CONNESS. If the Senator will perhours of labor. I have not been convinced ever he happened to be employed with other mit me, I will say to him that this is a bill that toiling men can accomplish as much work | hands he would be compelled to leave off and of a very marked character, and I hope he will in eight hours as in ten hours, or that they will be discharged at the same inoment that other consent to the postponement. receive as much compensation for eight hours men left off and were discharged.

Mr. NYE. We can pass it iu fifteen minutes. of labor as for ten hours. It may not be for I am also opposed to this bill for the reason Mr. CONNESS. Certainly we can. the permanent interests of those who have suggested by the Senator from Ohio. It is The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The quesnothing but their labor to sell to lessen the already a great evil that men are seeking after tion is on postponing the order of the day for hours of toil from ten hours to eight hours. If governmental employment in preference to thirty minutes. it is not, they will feel it and discover it quite remaining at home in their ordinary aud com

Mr. CONNESS. I call for the yeas and nays. as soon as any other portion of the people, and mon avocations; and I say to you, Mr. Presi The yeas and nays were ordered. they can readily abandon an experiment that | dent, that those people who are left at home, Mr. POMEROY. I suppose the Senator is has failed, It

may be for the material, intel who are compelled to work a larger pumber aware that if the bill is postponed for half au lectual, and moral interests of the masses of the of hours for the same price, will look with no hour, or an hour, it does not come up of necespeople whose lot it is to toil for their subsist favor upon a project of this kind which is to sity at the end of that time. It can be brought ence to reduce the hours of labor, and if the create and establish a favored few who obtain up then by a vote. reduction of the hours of labor will be conducive the Government employment.

Mr. CONNESS. Everybody knows that the to the interests of laboring men and laboring It is said that the same amount of labor can Senate will take up the appropriation bill then. women that reduction will be a source of be performed in eight hours as in ten. Look I hope the Senator will not occupy time on that gratification to every benevolent heart and at the fact. Here are parties engaged with question. generous mind.

machinery that cannot be driven and is not Mr. POMEROY. I know it will be taken In this matter of manual labor I look only driven beyond a certain rate of speed. Will up, but it is not like laying it aside informally to the rights and interests of labor. In this the parties who are engaged with such machin. by unanimous consent. country and in this age, as in other countries ery be able to produce any more by working Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I do not want and in other ages, capital needs no champion ; a less number of hours per day when that any misunderstanding about it. I do not want it will take care of itself, and will secure, if not || machinery revolves or moves at the same rate this appropriation bill to lose its place so that the lion's share, at least its full share of profits of speed that it did before? Let us illustrate I shall be compelled to struggle with any other in all departments of industry. On general | this. Take farming. Here is a man who bill. principles I am not anxious to stimulate labor drives his tearn in the field, follows the plow; Mr. CONNESS. There is no other bill that in our country. The departments of productive

can be make his horses or his oxen move over will antagonize it. industry are open to all, and offer incentives the same amount of ground in eight hours that Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. While I have to toil. We are made for something higher | he could in ten? It is absurd to suppose so. charge of this bill, I think it is my duty to present and better in this country than to pile up Take the establishment where there is one it squarely to the Senate. If the Senate say annually $1,000,000,000. What we want to grow gang, of hands that goes on and works through they will take up some other bill in preference in this Christian land of achieved free iusti. the day time, and another through the night, to this, then of course I shall submit my indi: tutions is a strong healthy race of men and alternating ; is it not obvious that the employers vidual judgment to theirs. If the motion is to women with cultivated heads and hearts and will be compelled to increase the number of consciences. Whatever tends to dignify man. hands for such an establishment as that to the

postpone this bill for thirty minutes, and it

comes up at the end of that time, I can underual labor or to lighten its burdens, to increase amount of fifty per cent. in order to have three stand that proposition. If it is simply to post. its rewards or enlarge its knowledge, should gangs of hands to fill up all the time? Cer pone this bill and take up the other billreceive our sympathies and command our sup:

tainly it is.

But after all if this bill should Mr. CONNESS. There is no proposition to port. Animated by these sentiments I shall pass it would result in the end in a reduction go on with any other bill than the appropriavote against the amendment and for the bill of the amount of wages, and I trust it will not tion bill wheu this shall be done withas it came from the Representatives of the pass.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. When this people.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques

shall be done with !!! Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. Mr. Presi tion is on the amendment of the Senator from Mr. CONNESS. It will not occupy more dent, I am under no stress of weather to define Ohio.

than half an hour, certainly, my position, but I am at liberty to speak of Mr. BUCKALEW. Mr. President, I intend Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. That is very this bill and say of it just what I think about to vote against this amendment, and I desire || problematical. it. I am no: in any hurry to try any experi to say a word upon it.

Mr. CONNESS. Give us half an hour on it. ments. This is called an experiment, and it The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The morn

Mr. EDMUNDS, The Senator from Maine, certainly is an experiment, so far as we are

I think, would have his bill up at the end of concerned. I bave entire confidence in the of the Chair to call up the untinished business thirty minutes, provided we lay it over in that intelligence and the education of the working of yesterday.

way; because I do not agree with the Senator men of this country to understand why this Mr. CONNESS. I hope we shall go on and

from Kansas that this bill that we are now bill is introduced, and I do not mean any, ll get a vote on this measure, which will be in a

speaking of would be the unfinished business reflection upon any body, for there has been very short time.

of yesterday, and would therefore override the considerable said in various parts of the coun. Mr. EDMUNDS. It will lead to debate.

special order. try in relation to the subject, but it is intro Mr. CONNESS. Oh, no; it will not.

Mr. CONNESS. Not at all. duced for the purpose of obtaining votes some Mr. BUCKALEW. I desire to express the

Mr. EDMUNDS. We are making the approhow and somewhere.

same hope. I have no doubt we shall get to a Sir, I believe it is a degradation of the work vote in a short time; while if it goes over now ing men of this country to deprive them of the it will perhaps take an hour or two on some

we always put special orders, that is, to postprivilege of making contracts to work for just other day. whatever súm and for whatever time they | The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The unfin

pone to an hour certain. That, of course,

requires a two-thirds vote ; and when that hour please. There are some men who would be ished business can be passed over informally,

comes, the unfinished business of yesterday not greatly distressed and injured if this will should if there be no objection.

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ruled two or three days ago on just such a ques. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. To make more, in fact, than laborers doing the same tion, the bill will come up, but it requires two a bill a special order requires a two-thirds kind of work in private employ receive for thirds to make it the special order.

vote; but this is not a motion to make it a their labor. That is all the question that arises bour.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. All these special order. The Chair does not think it on the proposed amendment of the Senator questions are under the control of the Senate. comes within that rule.

from Ohio. Mr. SHERMAN. At this period of the ses Mr. BUCKALEW, I think if this Bill passes What propriety is there in their receiving 5. Very well : het hy sion we ught not to defer any

nger the
at all, it ought to pass

without being incum more? Whether labor is too high too low Honorable chairman

appropriation bills. There are several appro bered by the amendment proposed by the Sen do not know. Usually the law of demand ppropriations will be priation bills that ought to be passed ; and I ator from Ohio. Several things are to be and supply regulates all those matters. There shall get a vote in

myself will vote with the Senator from Maine considered in this connection. There is very are as good men, skilled laborers, let me tell

against everything antil those bills are disposed frequently a great difference between skilled the Senator from Pennsylvania, out of the navy_, of Maine. laman ol. At any rate, all business of minor import and common labor in the labor markets of the l yards and the Government work-shops as there measure without the ance should give way to them; and this meas country. It is often very important that the are in them ; so there is no danger of the Gov

ure bas been here a long time, and is not so Government should employ labor of the highest ernment failing to get skilled labor, if persons 6. There will be sent

very important as the Senator from California | degree of skill and pay unusual rates. Under | desire to go there, because they get the same

imagines, nor is it so easily disposed of. I the amendment of the Senator from Ohio, pay there, and generally under greater advan4. of Maine. Betada

hope we shall go on with the regular appro- however, it would be impossible for the Gov- tages. It is known that all laborers prefer to Eel authorized to per priation bill. There are many amendments ernment officers to employ any person in any work for the Government, and why? Because e any control over na pending to it, and I have many myself to offer, particular trade or employment at rates above their pay is sure and regular; tbey consider it DON before the sense and we might as well go on with it. This other the common average in the labor market. an advantage, and thence comes the rush to before the sense ante matter will lead to general debate and is of Again, the Senator forgets that we have laws | get into Government employment. In addibe pressed to an en very little importance; and I think we ought fixing the rate of compensation for particular tion to that you now propose to give one fifth

not to postpone the great business of the ses Government labor here at the seat of Govern. more for the same kind of labor to persons who

sion--the appropriation bills—which must be ment, and in other parts of the country. As work for the Government than is given to perS. If the Senate : acted on and should not be crowded off. And to the employment of other laborers the rates sons who work for private individuals. That is to him that man

allow me to say that this habit of getting up are unfixed. The operation of his amendment, precisely the effect of it; and I suggest to gencharacter, and best some bill in the morning hour, when every: therefore, when it comes to be applied practi tlemen who make such a cry about economy

thing is taken up as a matter of course, and cally, may be found to nullify the proposed law, that they take this matter into consideration,

then crowding off the regular business by or to embarrass the Government in the trans because it will amount to a very large sum of 5. Certains teus beseeching and begging, &c., 80 hard to action of public business.

money; how much I cannot tell, because I resist in the Senate, I think ought not to be We have never heard any complaints, so far have not calculated it; but enough to offset carried any further. We ought to go on with as I know, that labor is unduly paid by the all the sheets of paper, and all the newspapers,

the regular, legitimate legislative business, and Government; that it is inordinately paid; that and all the penknives, and all the little inat-. I call for the peau et

this eight-hour bill can be taken up at some the rates of compensation allowed by Govern ters of that description of which we have heard
other time.
ment officers to those employed by them ought

so much.
Mr. CONNESS. I desire briefly to say that to be reduced, either generally in the country But gentlemen, when they come to a matter
it is the fault of my honorable friend from or at particular points; and I take it for granted which is supposed to affect politics, do not
Ohio more than of any other Senator that this that upon this question we can rely upou our stop to consider how it is to affect the finances
bill has been before us so long. At the last own agents that they will not pay larger rates of the Government, or how it is to affect the
session of Congress a similar bill was referred | than are proper to secure that labor which is | Treasury. I do not make any distinction between
to the committee of which he is the able chair- | necessary in the public service. I see no neces parties on that account, for I see on both sides
man; but no word has ever come from that sity, therefore, for loading down this bill with of this Chamber gentlemen representing differ-
committee in relation to it. This is another a condition or a limitation upon our public ent parties, running in the same direction, each
bill that has passed the House of Representa officers, which will be found, in practice, ex trying to see which will get ahead of the other.
tives in the mean time, and I hope that we shall tremely inconvenient and operative against the The Senator from California (Mr. COLE) has
dispose of it this morning. There is no danger || public interests,

advanced or elaborated an argument which of its leading to any extended debate now. There is another point in this same connec would have struck me with some force had it There is no danger that the Senate will not tion. It is very often necessary that particu not been for what I see before me. resume the consideration of the appropriation | lar work to be done by the Government should that it is absolutely necessary for the developbill as soon as we vote on this measure, and I be done in great haste. A vessel is to be fitted

ment, physically and intellectually, of the hope the honorable chairman of the Commit out for some public service in foreign waters, laborers of the country that we cut down the tee on Appropriations will consent to let this and it may be necessary to pay a little above time of employment to eight hours a day; that measure be disposed of.

the ordinary rates in order to secure the work ten hours a day are too much for anybody to Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I do not think || being done promptly and efficiently. Why work and have time left for the ordinary imit is quite the thing to appeal to me to exer should you inculnber now your public officers | provement which we desire all our people to cise a personal judgment on this question. with a limitation which may prevent them in attain. Now, sir, as a general principle, I While I have the charge of the appropriation an emergency, and when temporary labor is believe that experience has proved that intelbill it is my duty to keep it in its order before needed, from paying above the ordinary mar lectual development had better be left to the the Senate. If the Senate choose to lay it ket rate, when by your limitation you prevent individual. Give the facilities for obtaining aside and take up some other bill which ought them from obtaining the skilled labor at the information which our system has given, in to have precedence of it for the time being, I particular city or place where your public those certainly which were the free States of am entirely content with their judgment. business is to be transacted.

the Union for a long period of time, and leave Further than that, I do not think I ought to

Upon these considerations, in my judgment, to the individual to do something for himself. exercise a personal judgment about it.

it is perfectly clear that if we pass this bill at Leave the question of improvement to comake up

Mr. NYÈ. We are all with the Senator ; all we ought not to incumber and embarrass it petition, that competition which arises from but let us vote on this bill. We have nothing with the amendment of the Senator from Ohio. the nature of our institutions, and you obtain to do but to take the vote on it. Nobody pro

Mr. FESSENDEN. The Senator from Cal far more than you do by attempting to legislate poses to talk on it.

ifornia (Mr. CONNESS] expressed some doubt men into intellectuality. Why, sir, it struck The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques

whether a Senator could be found with courage me very singularly how the rule worked. Here tion is on postponing the order of the day for enough to oppose this bill. I rather think in is my friend from Massachusetts, (Mr. Wilson.] thirty minutes, on which question the yeas spite of that that I shall say a word or two He is on the same footing of argument, that and Days have been ordered

against it. I have seen a bloodier hour than men want time for improvement; eight hours The question being taken by yeas and nays, this upon questions of this sort; so that I am is enough to labor. He tells us in the same resulted-yeas 24, nays 15; as follows: not particularly alarmed so far as that is con breath that he worked thirteen hours a day in YEA8-Messrs. Buckalew, Cameron, Chandler, cerned.

the field and fifteen hours in the work-shop. My Cole, Conness, Cragin, Harlan, Hendricks, Howard, Mr. President, the question here is a very honorable friend from California [Mr. ConNye, Patterson of Tennessee, 'Pomeroy, Ramsey,

simple one so far as persons in the Govern. NESS] also spoke of his experience in labor. Stewart,

Thayer, Wade Willey, Wilson,and Yates-24. ment employ are concerned. It is whether What a specimen of dwarfs we have here arising
NAYS-Messrs. Cattell, Conkling, Corbett, Davis,
Dison, Edmunds Ferry, Fessenden, Morrill of Maine,

we shall pay them one fifth more than persons from too much labor in these two honorable Morrill of Vermont, Patterson of 'New Hampshire,

doing the same kind of labor in private employ || Senators ! Men working thirteen or fifteen Sherman, Sumner, Trumbull, and Williams--15. receive. That is all there is in it. Is the Sen. hours a day have by their own exertions, from

ABSENT --- Messrs. Anthony, Bayard, Doolittle,
Drake, Fowler, Frelingbuysen. Grimes, Henderson,

ator from Pennsylvania aware that there is a their own manhood, and their own talent, and Howe, Norton, Rice. Ross, Sauisbury, Sprague, Tip

law which requires the Government to pay the their own power, won their way to the Senate ton, Van Winkle, and Viekers-17.

highest rate of wages that is paid by private of the United States, and are here the peers The PRESIDENT pro tempore. On this establishments for the same kind of labor? If

of the ablest; and certainly they do not exhibit question the yeas are 24, and the nays 15. So so, what is the danger arising from the amend any very striking indications of great suffering the order of the day is postponede

ment of the Senator from Ohio? It simply in a physical point of view. My friend from Mr. EDMUNDS. I rise to a question of

says that if you choose to cut down the time Massachusetts especially does not look as if he order ; and that is, that it requires a two-thirds of labor in the Government works you shall had lost either blood or muscle by the labor that vote to postpone a bill to a particular hour by proportionately cut down the pay, so that those he has performed. And yet this argument is

employed by the Government shall not receive ll gravely advanced in this country, where we

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know what men do by their own exertions, that will go to work to try his experiment and see gentlemen who differ from me, but I think it is we must legislate men from ten hours down to if they cannot do as much in eight hours as a mere sham in itself, a matter that had better eight in order to give an opportunity for phys. they do in ten? He goes upon the assumption be let alone, better be left to regulate itself, ical and intellectual development; and we are that the moment yon pass the law and fix the and it will regulate itself well. Nobody is burt told that our people are injured in this country time of labor at eight hours a day then all the in this country by work. It is a country where by too much work! Another argument is that men who work the eight hours will try bis men, if they are disposed to labor at all, can we have such great improvements in machinery experiment to ascertain if they cannot do as get along by labor. There are facilities afforded and power derived from various natural sources much for the Government in eight hours as to labor of all kinds, mechanical, agricultural, that we do not need so many hours labor on they could in ten. Do you suppose they will intellectual; anything that a man chooses to the part of men. I suppose pretty soon we work any harder than they do now? Do you do he can do, and his labor is rewarded. Why, shall get it along down so that we shall not need suppose they will be any more laborious? My sir, what do we hear every day of different sec. any muscular labor at all; machinery will do honorable friend from California [Mr. Cor- tions of this country except the great demand everything! I suppose next we shall come NESS] says that when he worked by the piece || for labor, the want of labor, the readiness with down to six hours a day. But I should like to he found that he could do as much in eight which men stand to pay for labor if they can know whether machinery will ever be so im. hours as he could in ten, accomplish as much. have it? Is there any need, therefore, of our proved as to operate to reverse the rule of Put your laborers in the navy.yards and arsenals | regulating and providing how much or how nature so that a man cannot do so much in ten to work by the piece, and they will try the little a man sball receive, according to law? bours as he can in eigbt! I did not know that same experiment and see how much they can I see no such necessity, and I shall, therefore, Oper that was the operation of machinery, That is do, and as a general rule, I reckon, they will vote for the amendment, and whether the amenda imputing to macbinery a new and singular | be glad to work two more hours if they get ment prevails or not I shall vote against the power that I never before heard of. I did not more pay for doing so. They do not work by bin. know that while it lessened labor or increased the piece as a general rule, unless perhaps to Mr. FERRY. Mr. President, I do not like power it at the same time dwarfed the individ some extent in the armories, but by the day, to let this bill go to a vote without expressing ual man who directed it!

and they get the same pay whether they do as brietly as possible the reasons which control In my judgment, all this argument, as well much or little work. What chance is there, my action upon it. I shall vote for the as the argument that arises from the desire to then, to try the experiment that my honorable | amendment of the Senator from Obio, because make an experiment, amounts to very little. friend from Indiana speaks of? None at all if any such bill as this is to pass it is just to I have not heard of anybody that demanded || that I can perceive.

the Government that the amendment should this except the men working in the Govern Sir, the whole thing, where it has been tried, | prevail. ment employ. They think themselves snug in so far as my reading and observation go, any. The bill, in its application to the Government

Zasia of their places, and therefore it is very convenient where, has bad only the effect to prevent that and those employed by the Government, is not for them, getting the same wages that people competition which is of so much importance || like some of the laws which have been adopted get outside for ten hours' work, to have their and consequence to all people in all countries by some of the States on the same subject, as time contracted to eight. There are a few by way of improvement, and more especially the laws adopted by some of the States, my thousaud-I do not know how many--in the in a country like ours.

own State among the number, provide for the Government employ in the different navy-yards I oppose it, therefore, upon principle, and duration of eight hours as constituting a day's and arsenals. But how does that number com because I believe that no good can come of it, work, unless the parties shall otherwise agree. pare with the immense number of mechanics and much evil probably will. The moment we The present bill is a declaration of a bonus by and working men throughout the country; and have passed this bill there becomes an excite- the Government of the United States of twenty how, to elaborate a little the idea stated by my ment throughout the country upon the same friend from Vermont, will all the other me subject between employer and employed, and

percent. to its employés. But if what is termed

the eight-hour rule is to be applied in the chanics in the country feel when they look on the evil example will go forth from this place. relations between the Government and its and see that those who are in the Government Let men make their contracts as they please; employés, it seems to me essential that the employ are a favored class by the legislation

let this matter be regulated by that great regu amendment proposed by the Senator from O bio of Congress, and are receiving as much for lator, demand and supply; and so long as it should prevail. eight hours' labor as they can receive for ten? continues to be, those who are smart, capable, Sir, I must say that from the beginning of Let me tell gentlemen that I do not think this and intelligent, who make themselves skilled this agitation upon the subject of an eightwill amount to much in the way of gaining / workmen, will receive the rewards of their hour law my opinions have been very similar popularity:

labor, and those who have less capacity and to those of the Senator from Maine, [Mr. Now, sir, I object to this principally on less industry will not be on a level with them, FESSENDEN.]

In this country the agitation account of the principle involved. I am op but will receive an adequate reward for their for an eight-hour law did not begin with the posed utterly to the idea of regulating hours labor.

industrious laborer; it began with clamorous of labor by law. The thing has been proposed Is there anything in mechanical lahor that demagogues in search of votes.

And, sir, in several State Legislatures, and I have not should give it the advantage legislation over

as a principle, instead of being a benefit to the heard of any that have adopted it.

all other labor? How many hours a day do American working man it is striking a deadly Mr. CONNESS. Several have.

our agriculturists work, as a general rule? Do blow at bis rights; for if I were a day laborer, Mr. FESSENDEN. I do not know but that they confine themselves on their own farms to as the laboring man is commonly termed, there may be one or two such instances. eight hours a day? How many liours do pro either working at agricultural or mechanical

Mr. EDMUNDS. In those cases the State fessional men work, and is their labor less pursuits, or an operative in a factory, I never laws permit special contracis for a longer time. exhausting than mechanical labor? Is the would consent that the Government under

Mr. FESSENDEN. But you see the way labor that we perform in our offices less ex which I live should interfere either with any we are placed is this: it is no question of haustive? And yet nobody thinks of providing rates of wages or with my hours of labor. And special contract how much they shall be paid, hours by law for labor of that description. I sooner or later the working men of this counletting every man contract for himself; but the do not see many men about me who have been try will awaken, if they have not already question is whether we shall raise the wages | injured by such work. Perhaps my bonorable awakened, to the danger of permitting such of the laborers in Government employ one fiith, friend from Nevada, [Mr. NyE]-he points to legislation to be considered a part of the rightbecause that is the effect of it, by cutting of himself-may have hurt himself in that way; ful operation of Government. one fifth of the labor and leaving the wages the but when we hear him speak here, as he does law which you are attempting to make, and

That is the question, so that we do not with eloquence and wit so frequently, and with instead of by legislation making eight hours stand upon any equality with legislation of the a voice that certainly seems to possess power, the rule of a day's labor legislate that sixteen kind that is suggested. But all these attempts we are not apt to suspect that any very serious hours shall be the rule of a day's labor, and to regulate labor by legislation, providing by injury has been done him by the labor he has the working men of this country would clearly law how much or how little a man shall work, performed, nor do I see anybody else bere that see the manner in which Government was go upon a false principle. They have a ten suffers from that cause.

exceeding its just bounds and limitations. dency to bring all men to a level, a stupid man Mr. STEWART. Is that any reason why

Sir, believing that any such interference with upon a level with a smart and capable one. we should not legislate for the laborer? the relations between capital and labor in 8 Why not leave men to make their own bargains, Mr. FESSENDEN. The honorable Sena free Government can work onig the evil, beand make the best they can of their own powers, tor from Nevada [Mr. Stewart] is an excep- | lieving that such legislation as this is an ignorphysical and intelectual? This is of the same țion to all general rules. He knows, because ing of the experience of six hundred years

, nature with those societies that have been, he knows. He talks about axioms and things formed in different places, more especially in that other people have a difficulty of under

and carrying us back to the days of sumptuary

laws and of interference between capital and Great Britain, to regulate the time and the pay standing in fact or in logic. Things strike his labor which had been witnessed of labor. What is the effect? It reduces men mind, appear to him at once, which other peoprecisely to the point where they are all alike; || ple have to labor to attain a knowledge of.

countries of Europe, I do not desire, for one, the smart, capable, intelligent man can get no That is an advantage he has over us; he cer

to see such experiments revived at the present

day in this country. more and do no more than the stupid and lazy tainly has a great advantage over me physically I have no doubt that under the practical one; and when my friend from Indiana [Mr. as well as mentally; but I do not think I was MORTON) talks about trying an experiment, let ever hurt much by the work I have done.

operation of our system of Government the me ask bim if he supposes that the men in the Now, Mr. President, I regard this thing, in

relations of capital to labor will adjust themnavy-yards, sure of the same pay for eight plain language, as a humbug. That is my habit

selves in accordance with the law of supply hours a day that they now get for ten hours, 11 of looking at it. I say it with no disrespect to

and demand equitably and best for the permanent prosperity of all parties. Neither lave

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me, her I any doubt that governmental interference, from Pennsylvania to withhold his remarks at “$1,600" and insert" $14,400;" so as to

either Federal or State, can work only evil. present. I, too, wish to speak; but let us make the clause read:
Allusion has been made to the practical have a vote on this bill.

Office of Adjutant General:
working of these laws in the States wbere they Mr. BUCKALEW. Then I will simply say

For three clerks of class four, $5,400; nino clerks have been established. I know of such prae that if I bad time, and the Senate would listen

of class three, $14,400; twenty-seven clerks of class

two, $37,800.
tical operation only in my own State. There to me, I think I could make an answer to the

The amendment was agreed to.
the law, framed as I have said to be dependent remarks of the Senator from Connecticut. I
upon the agreement between the parties, has think they do great injustice to those who vote

The next amendment was under the head been in operation now for something more for this bill.

"Office of Adjutant General," in line seven ris reputati than a year, and the law is simply waste paper The bill was ordered to a third reading, and hundred and thirty-five to strike out "twenday of the so far as affecting the relations between the was read the third time.

ty-six'' and insert " forty," and

strike out Mr. EDMUNDS. I ask for the yeas and of the pa employer and the employé, because both

"$31,200% and insert "$48,000." 。 employer and employé have found out by ex nays on the passage of the bill.

Mr. WILSON. I move to amend the amend. perience that they can make their bargains The yeas and nays were ordered ;

and being

ment by striking out forty'' and inserting better for themselves than the Government can taken, resulted--yeas 26, nays 11; as follows:

"sixty," and by increasing the appropriation bor make them for them. For a little time the law YEAS--Messrs. Buckalow. Chandler, Cole, Con- clerks of the first class in this Department is

from $48,000 to $72,000. The number of operated evil in introducing discord between ness, Cragin, Dixon, Doolittle, Fowler, Harlan, Hen-' the employer and the employed; but fortunately dricks, Howard, McCreery, McDonald, Morton, Nye, now one hundred and twenty, and I propose to

Patterson of New Ilampshiro. Patterson of Tennes reduce it one half. (wherberbe the influence of our system, the law of supply

see. Ramsey, Ross, Stewart, Thayer, Tipton, Wade, and demand, the impulse of self-interest on the Williains, Wilson, and Yates--26.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. These are tempart of the laborer himself, soon overrode the NAYS-Messrs. Corbett, Davis, Edmunds, Ferry, porary clerks, and will be provided for by a

Fessenden, Morgan, Morrill of Vermont, Pomeroy, law and left it where it is to-day, a piece of

provision to be offered by the chairman of the Sherman, Sumner, and Van Winkle-11. ABSENT-Messrs. Anthony. Bayard, Cameron,

Committee on Finance.
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waste paper, a simple monument of folly in
legislation. And the same clamorous dema Cattell, Conkling. Drake, Frelinghuysen, Grines, Mr. WILSON. This is in the Adjutant

Henderson, Howe, Johnson, Morrill of Maine, Nor General's department of the War Department. gogues who started originally the demand that

ton, Rice, Saulsbury, Sprague, Trumbull, Vickers, in this free country Government should under and Willey-19.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. We have aptake to regulate the relations of capital and So the bill was passed.

propriated for all the clerks that are provided labor now insist that the liberty of the parties

for by law as permanent clerks. When we

The title of the bill was read. to contract shall be taken away from them by

come to the question of providing for tempo

Mr. SHERMAN. The title of the bill ought the action of Government, insist that the failure

rary clerks the Senator's motion will be in to be changed, it seems to me, to read: A bill

of the eight-lour law is owing to the fact that
to give to Government employés twenty-five

we have left to capital and labor the poor

Very well; I withdraw the per cent. more wages than employés in private

amendment to the amendment. privilege of making their own agreements. establishments receive.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The quesFortuuately, I am not aware that the people of

Mr. CONNESS. That is an eccentricity of tion is on the amendment of the Committee on
any State have yet come to the conclusion that
the honorable Senator from Ohio. The bill

in a republican government it is best for us to
has a very good title as it stands.

The amendment was agreed to.
say that men shall not make their own bargains,
but that Legislatures shall make their bargains

The next amendment was in line seven hun. for them; and without that principle involved A message from the House of Representa dred and forty-two, to strike out “four" and in your bills, which shall deny to employer || tives, by Mr. McPherson, its Clerk, announced insert “nineteen,'' and to strike out “$6,400" and employed the right of making their own that the Speaker of the House had signed the

and insert “$30,400;" so as to appropriate contracts, your eight-hour laws will forever

enrolled bill (H. R. No. 1059) to relieve from $30,400 for nineteen clerks of class three in the remain waste paper upon your statute-books, disabilities certain persons in States lately in office of the Quartermaster General. the source of discontent and disagreement | rebellion ; and it was signed by the President

The amendment was agreed to. between capital and labor. pro tempore.

The next amendment was in line seven hun. Because, then, the effort which is made here

dred and forty-four, to strike out “ seven" and

LEGISLATIVE, ETC., APPROPRIATION BILL. is one which is avowedly to influence legisla

insert “ forty-two, " and to strike out "$9,800" tion by example throughout the United States, The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The unfin. and insert "$58,800;", so as to appropriate I do feel as if in the Senate of the United States, ished business of yesterday is House bill No. 605.

$58,800 for forty-two clerks of class two in the at least, there might be one last refuge for the The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole,

office of the Quartermaster General. exercise of common sense upon a subject like resumed the consideration of the bill (H. R. The amendment was agreed to. this. No. 605) making appropriations for the legis.

The next amendment was in line seven hunMr. SHERMAN. I call for the yeas and lative, executive, and judicial expenses of the

dred and seventy-seven, to strike out"four” and nays on my amendment. Government for the year ending the 30th of

insert "fourteen," and to strike out “$5,600" The yeas and nays were ordered. June, 1869.

and insert "$ 19,600;\' so as to appropriate Mr. DOOLITTLE. I should like to hear The reading of the bill was continued from

$19,600 for fourteen clerks of class two in the the amendment read. the point reached yesterday, and the amend.

office of the Commissary General.
The amendment was read, being to insert
ments reported by the Committee on Appro-

Mr. POMEROY. I wish to inquire whether after the words “ United States, in line six, || priations were acted on in their order as reached

this amendment adds more clerks? these words:

in the reading of the bill.
The first amendment reached was in line

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. No; it is only And unless otherwise provided by law the rate of wages paid by the United States shall be the cur. seven hundred and sixteen, to strike out “four' || providing for clerks in this office in conformity rent rate for the saine labor for the same time at the and insert" seven,'' and to strike out “$7,200"

to the existing law. place of employment. and insert “$12,600,", so as to appropriate Representatives have only provided for four,

Mr. POMEROY. I see that the House of The question being taken by yeas and nays, $12,600 for seven clerks of class four in the resulted-yeas 16, nays 21; as follows:

and our committee propose fourteen. The War Department, instead of $7,200 for four.

House must have had some knowledge on the YEAS-Messrs. Cattell, Corbett, Davis, Edmunds, The amendment was agreed to. Perry, Fessenden, Howard, Morgan, Morrill of

subject different from the knowledge of the Maine. Morrill of Vermont, Patterson of New Hamp The next amendment was after line seven Senator from Maine. shire, Ross, Sherman, Sumner, Van Winkle, and hundred and nineteen, under the head " War Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. We provided Williams-16 NAYS-Messrs. Buckalew, Cole, Conkling, Con Department," to insert:

according to the estimates, and according to ness, Cragin, Dixon, Doolittle, Harlan, Hendricks, For four clerks of class throe, $6,400.

the statutes authorizing these clerks. On a Jobnson, McCreery, McDonald, Morton, Nye. Patterson of Tennessee, Pomeroy, Ramsey, Stewart, Tip The amendment was agreed to.

former occasion they were authorized during ton, Wade, and Wilson-21.

the continuance of the war.
ABSENT-Messrs. Anthony, Bayard, Cameron, The next amendment was under the head The amendment was agreed to.
Chandler, Drake, Fowler, Frelinghuysen, Grimes, ** War Department,'' to strike out "six," in
Henderson, Ilowe. Norton, Rico, Saulsbury, Sprague,

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine, In linę seven Thayer, Trumbull, Vickers, Willey, and Yates-19. line seven hundred and twenty-three, and insert

hundred and seventy the word “each' should So the amendment was rejected. “ eight;" and in the same line to strike out

be inserted after “ dollars." “$7,200’’ and insert"$9,600;" so as to make The bill was reported to the Senate without the clause read:

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Thatamendamendment.

ment will be made unless it is objected to. The For three clerks of class two, $4,200; eight clerks Mr. BUCKALEW. I desire to inquire

reading will proceed. of class one, $9,600; one messenger, $1,000; one

The next amendment was in line seven bunwhether the time assigned for this bill has assistant, at $510; one laborer, at $720; two assistexpired? ant messengers, at $3-10 each, $1,650.

dred and seventy-nine, to strike out "eight" The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The time The amendment was agreed to.

and insert"

twenty-four," and to strike out fixed has expired.

The next amendment was in line seven hun $9,600" and insert it $28,800;" so as to Mr. CONNESS. Let us take the question. | dred and thirty, to strike out “one clerk”' and appropriate $28,800 for twenty-four clerks of Mr. BUCKALEW. I should like to make insert "three clerks ;"? in the same line to

class one in the office of the Commissary Gen

eral. one remark before I vote for this bill.

strike out - $1,800” and insert "$5,400;" in Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I call for the line seven hundred and thirty-one, to strike out

The amendment was agreed to. order of the day.

"one clerk" and insert "nine clerks;'' ip line The next amendment was in line seven hun. Mr. CONNESS. I appeal to the Senator seven hundred and thirty-two to strike out dred and eighty-five, to strike out “one clerk"

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