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sir, suppose that these reconstructed States, 1 question has been made in the Senate within a material point to be looked after by us that
Mr. ÍTOWE. No; the Senator is mistaken, with them and declare that the constitutional | sufficient. It would be ridiculous, in my opin. Mr. FESSENDEN. It was originally so. amendment was not ratified by three fourths | ion, to send this back to the Legislature of Mr. HOWE. Originally so; but it is not so
Ford of the States, what would be the result? We | Florida, and say “You have not expressed an
in the law now.
Constit should have their Senators and Representatives acceptance of this article, but you must use
Mr. FESSENDEN. I say that being rein here and the constitutional amendment not the word 'ratify.'
garded of so much importance it was originally ratified
Mr. HOWE. I said when I was up just so provided. We have since waived that just Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. I suggest to my now, that since we had agreed to take repre so far as to say that we will admit a State friend from Missouri that, in that event, all sentatives from the State of Florida, and since before that article becomes a part of the Con
used 1 Congress would have to do would be to pass a law we had ascertained that that State has chosen i stitution; but still I cling to that as a very declaring that its declaration that the consti representatives, I thought we ought to receive important idea, and I wish to secure that partutional amendment was ratified was sufficient, them unless some Senator should say that he || ticular thing. I have fears that unless this
Quest without the Secretary of State doing it. had great doubts as to the propriety of our
ratification is communicated in proper form, 1118 Mr. DRAKE. That may do very well after receiving them at this time. When I made and communicated by the proper anthority, it Feleet the thing is developed; but I am talking about that remark I had heard no such doubt ex will not be noticed; and I am unwilling that the state of things that exists now; and I say pressed. The Senator from Michigan has since anything should be let slip in relation to that The again that, in my opinion, that joint resolution raised a question which he wishes to have matter. But, sir, the Senate will do as it of the two houses of the Legislature of Florida | examined by the Judiciary Committee. That pleases, For myself, when there are doubts pape is not a ratification of the constitutional amend. question is, whether, when the Legislature of raised about such a matter, and this is the first ment. When the Constitution uses the word Florida say they " adopt a particular amend case that presents itself, I think it is safer to "ratify?' it uses it in its clear, distinct sense. ment as a part of the Constitution, they do have the report of a committee. They can An adoption'' is not a "ratification" in any | thereby “ ratify" that amendment? There look at it calmly, and with sufficient time to
the c definition of the word that we know of in the seems to me to be so little doubt on that point examine it carefully, which cannot be done in
CIATY English language. “To adopt” is "to take that I am inclined not to assent to the refer the Senate by a discussion here on the spur or receive as one's own; to select and take, as, ence to the Judiciary Committee, but to take of the moment; and as a day is of no sort of to adopt the opinions of another, to adopt a the vote of the Senate upon it.
consequence, as it can be a matter of no great particular mode of husbandry." "To ratify?' Mr. MORTON, (presenting a dictionary.) || importance to these gentlemen whether they is “to approve and sanction; to make valid ; || Here is a definition of the word.
are sworn in to day or to-morrow, I think we to confirm; to establish; to settle,''
Mr. DRAKE. I have read the definition
had better refer these papers. When the Constitution uses the word "rat from the book.
I have great respect for the chairman of the ify,”' why should we permit this State to use Mr. MORTON. Very well; I was not aware Committee on the Judiciary, and when he gets the word "adopt," and to leave the question of it.
up here and says there is no doubt about & open
afterward whether there is a ratification? Mr. HOWE. The Senator has read the thing, I am willing to take that as his opinion; Sir, we are bound to see that this constitutional definition of "adopt.'
but it is barely possible that in committee, with amendment is ratified beyond all question, and Mr. DRAKE. And "ratify," also.
other lights about him, some further effulgence we are bound not to admit any Senator into Mr. HOWE. Well, I do not propose to might be shed upon it, and he might be led to this Chamber from any of these reconstructed overrule either of these dictionaries; but I had || doubt, or at any rate to make a more specific States until that State has ratified' the con one suggestion to make, and that is that the examination. When we make a motion to
the stitutional amendment, not "adopted" it. It Constitution simply requires the Legislature to refer a question to the Judiciary Committee The has no business to " adopt" it; all it has to do ratify, and does not require them to say that we do not mean to refer it to the chairman
obi is to “ratify” what Congress has done, to they ratify. In other words, the Constitution alone, but to the committee to have a report;
requires that the Legislature shall do some and although bis opinion may now be clear, Mr. YATES. I do not think that there is a thing that is a ratification, and does not require think nothing can possibly be lost, and some man in the United States who looks at this them to use that word; and I think the Senator | additional feeling of security may be gained ᎢᏂ thing in the right way, no lexicographer or from Indiana was entirely right when he said by the reference. professor or man of common school education that if they did anything or said anything Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President anywhere, who will not say that an "adoption || which signified their acceptance of a particular Mr. DOOLITTLE. Will the Senator from of the amendment is a "* ratification” of it. I proposition as an amendment of the Constitu Michigan give way for a moment? I have hope the Senate will not pause upon any such tion of the United States that was sufficient received and been requested to present a question; I will not call it a quibble, for I have
paper, which I send to the desk, which purtoo great respect for the Senator from Missouri. sball take the vote of the Senate on the ques. ports to be a certificate of the Governor of
Mr. MORTON. Mr. President, I confess tion whether they will refer these credentials Florida. that I am somewhat surprised at this objection. or whether they will admit the Senators now The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The creIs the word “ ratify'' a technical word? Are without saying another word.
dentials now sent to the desk' by the Senator there not other words in the English language Mr. TIPTON. I only desire to say that in from Wisconsin will be read, if there be no which signify the same thing? Are we after " adopting” amendments they adopt them as objection. the substance, or are we after a mere technic amendments of the Constitution, and receive Mr. HOWE. By whom is that paper signed? ality? When it is required that these States them as such.
The CHIEF CLERK. “David S. Walker, shall “ratify!: an amendment, what does it Mr. FESSENDEN. I hope this matter will Governor of Florida." mean except that they shall agree to it, signify || go to the committee, simply because there Mr. HOWE. I object to the reading of that their acquiescence that it shall become a part seems to be doubt suggested in the minds of paper. of the Constitution ? Is anything else re gentlemen. In such a case it is better that Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President, I was about quired? Is anything else meant? Why, sir, the papers should go to the committee. I con
to say that it might turn out, as has been inti; if they had said, "we hereby accept this as a fess I am somewhat anxious to know whether mated here, that the point which I suggested part of the Constitution,” would not that be the ratification has been communicated to the respecting the phraseology of the resolution of equivalent to the word "ratify?"
Secretary of State in form. I desire to have the Legislature of Florida may be trivial and Mr. DRAKE. That would not be equiva. || the evidence in the proper place.
unfounded. I am not prepared to say that lent to " adopt."
Mr. HOWE. Does the Senator think that there is any strong ground for expressing a Mr. MORTON. If they had said "We will it is necessary that it should be communicated
doubt as to the sufficiency of that form of ratiagree to this,” would not that be equivalent to to the Secretary of State ?
fication; but still I think the chairman of the the word "ratify?". Would it not convey the Mr. FESSENDEN. I think so, under the
Committee on the Judiciary, if he will examine same meaning? If they had said, as they do existing law.
the forms of ratification of the Constitution "We hereby adopt this,” how can they Mr. HOWE. The existing law is that when itself by the thirteen old States, and the forms adopt it without agreeing to it? How can they the Legislature ratifies we shall receive their of the ratification of all the subsequent amendo adopt it without accepting it? How can they | Senators. agree to it without ratifying it? They cannot. Mr. FESSENDEN. I am speaking of the word "adopted" is the only word used in the
ments, will not find a single case in which the If they agree to accept it as a part of the Con law which requires the ratification to be com resolution of ratification. It is not possible abiat tibe meaning clearly conveyed by the use | Mr. HOWE. That may, perhaps, be neces
for me at this moment to say with certainty
what the forin in all those cases was; but I of the word "adopt?” As the Senator from sary in order to make the amendment a part think he will find that in every case the word Massachusetts bas said, that is the popular of the Constitution, but it is not necessary to " ratify'' was used by the Legislatures of the word. It is used every day in this Senate entitle the gentlemen elected to their seats. when we come to speak on that subject. The
Mr. FESSENDEN. I apprehend that it is
old States when they adopted the Constitution originally, and by the Legislatures of the ser
Mr. HOWE. I object to the reaction
her mated here, that the point when it
vofounded. I am not preparar hat there is any strong ground ir led doubt as to the sufficiency of the in the Committee on the Judiciary, is
ments, will pot fod a single and the word "adopted" is the only wade sog. what the form in all that Aart think he will find that in every and
hen itself by the thirteen old States der
"ratify" was used br the Lights
a material point to be looked after ipuu
Mr. 11OWE. No; the Senator is
Mr. FESSENDEN. It was origining (
Mr. HOWE. Originally so; bu das
in the law now. e
Mr. FESSENDEN, I say that benys
garded of so much importance is su me it so provided. We have since maieste
80 far as to say that we will adesso
before that article becomes a part one i institution ; but still I cling to thet av ve important idea, and I wish to see he ticular thing. I base fears that moist ur ratification is communicated in partea Je and communicated by the proper DE
will not be noticed, and I am urur:
Ice anything should be let slip in relats te matter. But, sir, the Senat: tab? *** pleases. For myself, when there ex of raised about such a matter, and that: nd case that presents itself
, 1 task to do have the report of a committee are look at it calmly
, and with safeles lint examine it carefully
, which cannel ten femps the Senate by a discussion bere ee 2 Bke of the moment; and as a day kors
consequence, as it can be a matter 2003 ry. importance to these gentlemen van
are sworn in to day or to-morror, la son had better refer these papers
I have great respect for the buzet rare Committee on the Judiciary, and ente
up here and says there is no ibe thing, I am willing to take this bar
but it is barely possible tbar in contes
other lights about him, some fortauetas - to might be shed upon it, and be met 3! 1. ad doubt, or at any rate to makes the examination. When we naše s A to refer a question to the Judiciary
at we do not mean to refer it to 23 on alone, but to the committee to pile
and although his opinios mant}} lire think nothing can possibly be wake wa stor additional feeling of security and ald by the reference.
eral States in adopting the amendments which they must take certain steps, and those steps so far as that State in concerned, and so far
we are to take for granted that the question is
what there is to submit to the Committee on struction; and supposing that they have done The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Sen the Judiciary I am not able to see.
that so far as the particular provision is conator from Wisconsin [Mr. DOOLITTLE) presents These were supposed to be grave questions; cerned, as the constitutional amendments rea paper on this subject and asks that it be read. but they have been settled by the decision of ferred to have been ratified, I see no objection The reading is objected to, and the question is, ) the Senate. That committee cannot reverse the to swearing in the member who it has been Shall the paper be read ?
decision of the Senate. That committee can- certified to us has been properly elected. Mr. HENDRICKS. I shall vote to refer not now inquire whether this Senator was Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. President, I do not the credentials before the body to the Judi elected before the State was in a condition to rise to discuss this question of reference; but ciary Committee for the reasons which I gave elect; nor can the committee question that the the paper which I sent to the Chair purports to the other day in favor of referring the Arkansas | Legislature at the time was competent to ratify ll be the credentials of Hon. William Marvin, a credentials, and not at all for the reasons that the amendment. But suppose the word "adopt" ) Senator-elect from the State of Florida, and as are assigned here this morning. I think Con is not sufficient, why not amend it? Why the other credentials were about to be referred gress has no more power to say that before a should Congress not amend it? We amend to the Committee on the Judiciary, I simply State shall be represented in this body after their constitutions. Why not amend this res desired to have these referred also at the same her practical relations to the Union have been olution of adoption and say that it means rat time. I ask that the paper which I sent to the recognized she shall ratify or refuse to ratify | ify, and put it through? What is the use of Chair may be read, so as to be referred with the a proposed amendment to the Constitution, standing upon trifles? Perhaps the word other papers to the Committee on the Judiciary. than to say that she shall not be represented "adopt" means " ratify." Perhaps technical I did not rise to make any argument. at all. If Congress can make this as a condi. words are not needed in a resolution of this Mr. TRUMBULL. Mr. President, I am for tion of representation in regard to a State the sort. If so, and we want to have the exact | treating this motion to refer just as I would relations of which are now recognized by law, || word, why not just put it in? We have as any other. It was not from any haste on my then Congress can go through her whole con much power to do that certainly, to control the part to have the Senators from Florida admitted stitution and her code of laws and prescribe action of the Legislature, as we have to wod. that I suggested that there was no object in the whole system of government for that State. ify the action of a constitutional convention | referring these papers to the committee. We Therefore I shall vote for the reference for that makes a constitution. I do not myself have settled by an act which we passed a few other reasons than those that have been sug see anything much to refer ; but to be consist: 1 days ago the condition of Florida. We have gested.
ent with myself on the vote of the other day || declared that that State, under a constitution I do not know whether the word "approve" I shall vote for the reference.
which was submitted to us and examined, was or “ adopt” will supply the place of " ratify.'' Mr. EDMUNDS. Mr. President, one would entitled to representation in Congress when she That is a question that I suppose the Senate almost suppose that the distinguished Senator ratified the constitutional amendment known as of the United States is not called upon judi- || from Indiana was making a 4th of July ora article fourteen, That act has passed both cially to decide at this time. Whether the il tion. I do not mean the 4th of next July; I Houses of Congress and is the law of the land. State of Florida by the language used in her mean some other July. (Laughter.] All that | Now, the State of Florida sends evidence here resolution has ratified the constitutional amend. I rose to say was that for one I do not wish to that she has ratified that constitutional amendment is a question upon which I would not be put in the position that he has assigned to ment. Does anybody doubt it? give an opinion at this time.
me as to the legal effect of the Senate's action Mr. DRAKE. Yes, I do. This particular person comes here certified touching the ratification by the State of Arkan Mr. TRUMBULL. The Senator from Miswith more particularity than is usual. It is sas of the constitutional amendment. He bas | souri doubts it because the word “ ratify?' is not only certified that he is elected according chosen to state in a very lawyer-like and adroit not used. Now, let me read to him a sentence to the act of Congress, but it is certified that way a view of the case that pleases him, and from the law. By a statute passed in 1818 it he has been a resident of the State of Florida has assigned us to that position. I do not wish was declaredfor two years. How the Governor had official to go over now, because it is not appropriate, “That whenever official notice shall have been information of the length of this person's resi: the real and correct legal grounds upon which received at the Department of State that any amenddence in this State is not apparent to the Sen. the ratification by Arkansas has row become
ment which heretoforo has been, or hereafter may
be, proposed to the Constitution of the United States ate. I suppose it is not found upon the records as to her valid. They are firm enough, are has been adopted according to the provisions of the of the Legislature, and perhaps not upon the easily enough understood. They have existed Constituti in, it shall be the duty of the Secretary of
State forthwith to cause the said amendment to be records of the executive department of the land been practiced upon in one form or an
published in the said newspapers authorized to proState. There are some institutions of States other since the Union was formed, year after mulgate tho laws, with his certificate speeifying the that keep records of this sort; but perhaps the year. But, as I say, I do not wish to take time States by which the same may have been adopted." Governor could not certify in regard to that at for that, but only to declare that I do not Congress, fifty years ago, used the word all. Wby is that? Why is there a certificate | choose to occupy the position to which my || “ adopted," in reference to constitutional that he bas been a resident of the State for two distinguished friend has assigned me.
amendments; and it was declared in a mesyears? I suppose it is to exclude the conclu Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. President, I suppose sage from the President of the United States sion that he is one of the adventurers that are the only question practically before the Sen to both Houses of Congress, dated January 8, going down there to govern that country. Is ate about which there can be any dispute is | 1798, that the eleventh amendment which wa's this credential satisfactory? The Constitution whether the two amendments to the constitu- proposed to the Constitution of the United simply requires that the party shall be a resi tion have been sufficiently ratified by the State States had been "adopted by the constitudent of the State at the time he is elected. of Florida; and that de; ends, as I suppose, tional number of States ;'' so that this word This person comes with more than ordinary | upon the meaning of the word "adoption," "adopted” is no new word in our law; and claims, then, because the certificate is fuller as found in their resolution. I rise merely for the only suggestion that I have heard for rethan usual; and I suppose, if we regard the the purpose of saying that it seems to me that ferring these papers is to ascertain whether, law passed the other day, he is entitled to his that word is just as effectual as any other word | when a Legislature adopts a constitutional seat. The credential shows an election. The that could have been used to obtain that end. amendment, it has ratified it. Even the Senquestion was settled the other day that an elec-Congress has a right to propose amendments ator from Michigan says that he does not know tion at a time when there was no legal State 1) to the Constitution, and the States have a right that it is of sufficient importance to raise a governmeut as declared by Congress is a good to reject or ratify them. When the State of doubt upon it. election. Congress deciared in the reconstruc Florida, in due form, tells us that her Legisla Mr. DRAKE. I will state to the honorable tion acts that there was no valid government | tare, by whom the act of adoption is to be Senator from Illinois that there is another down there, that to have a valid government || made, has adopted them, it appears to me that I ground. We do not know, and cannot know
40TH CONG, 2D SESS. --No. 226.
Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President
Mr. DOOLITTLE. Willis itu. Michigan give way for a mons
received and been reguested * ik paper, which I send to the dess
ports to be a certificate of the * ials Fiorida. JOW
The PRESIDENT pro tempore
dentials now sent to the dest bruin tin from Wisconsin will be read, it 1 as objection. Ive
Mr. HOWE. By whom is the point
The Curer CLERK. "Dane a will Governor of Florida.
Ir. HOWARD. Mr. President de
to say that it might turn out, as bas the respecting the phraseology of them are the Legislature of Florida ma
fication; but still I think the coming
the forms of ratihcation of the living seir of the ratification of all the su betale
im. resolution of ratifcation. It is
for me at this moment to st
"Quates when aber adopted ibu dan
without an examination and comparison, fundamental condition upon which they were
from Connecticut (Mr. FERRY] moves an
Preside that the constitutional amendments as set to be admitted, the ratification of that amend. || amendment. out in that joint resolution of the Legisla. || ment, shall be made to appear to the Senate
Mr. FERRY. I withdraw the amendment. ture of Florida are set out in the words in before they shall rush forward to aduit these The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amend. which they were proposed.
Senators. Now, sir, if the Senate choose to ment is withdrawn. Mr. TRUMBULL. I bave said that I was go it blind in this matter, very well; I have Mr. DOOLITTLE. I move to amend the for treating this paper like all others. If any nothing further to say; I have done my duty motion by including in it the credentials just member of the Senate will rise in his place in calling their attention to it.
read. and say that he believes this resolution does not Mr. CONNESS. I bope we shall have a The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The quesrecite the fourteenth article, or that what is here vote and see whether the Senate will refer | tion is on the amendment of the Senator from set forth differs from it, I am willing to have these credentials or not.
it in: is referred for the purpose of comparison to Mr. DAVIS. Mr. President, I am some
Mr. DOOLITTLE. Senators suggest that satisfy the Senator from Missouri; but unless what amused at this sudden revival of a seem they prefer to take the question on each case
8.12 some Senator suggests something of that kind, ing attachment to the Constitution by the gen separately, and that I can make the motion to and merely imagines that it is possible it is tlemen over the way after they have so long || refer these papers afterward, if the others are pot properly copied, I see no necessity for a forsaken it. It is, however, rather an encour referred. 'l'o gratify Senators I withdraw the reference, even to satisfy my friend from aging and refreshing view of the subject ; but amendment. Maine that the Secretary of State should || I think the gentlemen might as well hold on The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques. promulgate it. The validity does not depend to the even tenor of their way. Why should | tion is on referring the credentials first offered upon his promulgation ; he is only required they care about the Constitution or elections to the Committee on the Judiciary, with the to give notice when he has received official or forms of return? They may dispense with resolutions of ratification of the Legislature of information of the adoption of a constitutional the whole of them whenever it is their will, || Florida. amendment. But we have passed a law by and I think they might as well do it now. Mr. CONNESS and Mr. STEWART called which we have said to the State of Florida, Why trouble yourselves, gentlemen, about the for the yeas and nays; and they were ordered. “ You have organized a State government Constitution and what it prescribes and its
Mr. EDMUNDS. As the yeas and nays are which is entitled to representation in this con forms? Why do you look at the form of a to be taken, I wish in one word to give the gress, and we will receive your representatives return of a Senator from one of the States of reason for my vote. I have, as it now strikes
30 when you send them here, and ratify the con. the Union? Why do you ask an election, me, no difficulty with the question of terminolstilntional amendment which we
much less a return? Dispense with the com ogy-if my friend from Massachusetts (Mr. fourteenth article." They send us here the evi mission and with the return, and, if necessary, SUMNER] thinks that is a proper word to usedence of that fact, and send the members here, dispense with the election, and if the gentle. which has been raised here; but considering and now the Senator from Maine suggests that men who present themselves do not suit you, the condition that these States have been in, we shall wait until the Secretary of State pro just select and appoint others for yourselves. and the fact that there are several other cases claims something about it. You car do all this, and I think it would com more or less analogous to come to us, I think
AD Mr. FESSENDEN. No, sir; the Senator port more with what you have done heretofore; that it is wise, as a mere matter of precaution, will please not misapprehend me. I think it it would preserve the harmony of your system | although I myself see no objection to these is the duty of the State to communicate the of operations and of your programme. I en. papers, to send them to the committee. The fact to the Secretary of State, and that is the treat that you shall make no departure what committee meet to-morrow and can report toproper evidence that they have adopted or rati ever from it; do not say another word about morrow; and then everybody will be satisfied, fed the amendment, so that he may have the the credentials or another word about the and we shall have a precedent and method of ILS evidence before him in order to promulgate the elections; but if the gentleman who presents | doing business which will not leave us so liable adoption of the constitutional amendment by himself suits you, just send him up to be as we are, in doing things in the baste of this
V a sufficient pumber of States to make it a part sworn; and if he does not suit you, just drop || method, to go astray. That is my reason for Sen of the Constitution. Suppose that hereafter, him for another that suits you better and send voting to refer, not that I see any difficulty in tbis not being now done, the State of Florida | him up to be sworn, and have it all your own
CE or any of these other States refuses to com. way.
The question being taken by yeas and nays, TOP municate the information to him. Mr. STEWART. Is the Senator serious ? resulted-yeas 16, nays 30; as follows: •
the Mr. TRUMBULL. That would not alter its
Mr. DAVIS. It is serious for you; that is, YEAS-Messrs, Anthony, Buckalew, Davis, Doovalidity. It is only a means of preserving the it is acting out your appropriate part. I am
little, Drake, Edmunds, Fessenden, Hendricks, Hor: evidence. Whenever the requisite number of l just suggesting what uniformity in your course
ard, Johnson, McCreery, Morrill of Maine, Morrill of Vermont,
Norton, Patterson of New Hampshire, and States have ratified the constitutional amend
and policy would require you to do, gentlemen. Vickers--16. ment it becomes part of the Constitution ; and You have given enough of amusement to the
NAYS--Messrs. Cameron, Cattell, Chandler, Cole, whenever you can obtain the evidence of that Senate and to the country this morning by
Conness, Corbett, Cragin, Ferry, Frelinghuysen, Har
lan, Howe, McDonald, Morgan, Morton, Nye. Pomfact in any court the court would recognize it. || talking about elections, and the forms of the eroy, Ramsey, Ross. Sherman, Stewart, Samper, This is not the only means of establishing it; Constitution, and the forms of return. I think
Trumbull, Van Winkle, Wade. Wilit is a convenient way of making it known by that farce has been played about long enough.
ley, Willia:ns, Wilson, and Yates-30.
ABSENT-Messrs. Bayard, Conkling, Dixon, Forhaving it promulgated by the Secretary of State. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques. ler, Grimes, Henderson, Patterson of Tennessee, Rice, But would it not be just as valid in any court tion is on the reading of the paper presented
Saulsbury, and Sprague-10. in Christendom when the evidence was furnished || by the Senator from Wisconsin, (Mr. Doolit
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The
qucs. from the action of the State itself that it had. Tie.) He asks to have it read, and the reading |tion recurs on the motion of the Senator from ratified the constitutional amendment? Really being objected to it can only be ordered by a Wisconsin, [Mr. Howe,] that the Senator elect I see no object in referring these papers. It vote of the Senate. The question is, Shall the be permitted to take the oaths. looks to me as if it were hunting after some
paper offered by the Senator from Wisconsin Mr. DRAKE. I ask for the reading of the objection when the Senator from Missouri sug. be read?
supposed resolution of ratification by the Legis. gests that possibly these are not proper copies. The question being taken, there were on a
lature of Florida. Mr. DRAKE. Mr. President, I do not division-ayes 21, noes 8.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It will be think the honorable Senator from Illinois has
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The paper
read if there be no objection. any sort of justification whatever for charging will be read.
The Chief Clerk read as follows: me with hunting after objections to the admis
The Chief Clerk read as follows:
Be it resplved by the people of the State of Florida in sion of representatives. We declared by act of
STATE OF FLORIDA,
Senate and Assembly represented. That the following Congress that we would admit the Senators
proposed amendments to the Constitution of the from these States when each of these States
United States, known as articles thirteenth and fourTo all to whom these presents may come, greeting : teenth, be, and the same are hereby, adopted: had ratified the constitutional amendment. Know ye, that at a joint meeting of the senate and
XIII AMENDMENT. The honorable Senator from Mlinois said that house of representatives of the State of Florida in Section 1. Neither slavery nor involantary serviin this case evidence of the fact was produced
General Assembly convened, held at the capitol, in
tude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the in regard to Florida. How does he know that
party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist A. D. 1866, William Marvin was duly elected a Sena within
the United States or any place subject to their that is evidence of the fact till he has examined tor in the Congress of the United States for the term
jurisdiction. it? How can we say that it is a ratification of six ycars from the 4th day of March proximo, 1867. In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my offi
SEC. 2. And Congress shall have power to enforco of the constitutional amendment when we have cial signature and caused to be affixed the great seal
this article by appropriate legislation. not examined the document to see whether of Florida.
XIV AMENDUENT. the amendment is there in terms? I want the
Done at the capitol, in the city of Tallahassee, the 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United
30th day of November, A. D. 1866. Committee on the Judiciary to examine this
States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, aro (L. 8.)
DAVID S. WALKER, citizens of the United States and the State wherein resolution of the two houses of the Florida
Governor of Florida,
they reside. No State shall inake or enforce any law Legislature, and inform us whether it is a By the Governor:
which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of
Attest: ratification of the constitutional amendment,
BENJAMIN F. ALLEN, Secretary of State.
deprive any person of life, liberty. or property, with whether the constitutional amendment is set The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is moved out due process of law, nor deny to any persona out there in terms, or whether it is something that the credentials first read, and the paper
within its jurisdiction the equal protection of its
laws. else that they have ratified. purporting to be evidence that the constitu.
2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the I protest, Mr. President, against any charge tional amendment has been ratified by the Legis several States according to their respective numbers, against me of unfriendliness toward the admislature of Florida, be referred to the Committee
counting the whole number of persons in each State. sion of these States. All I want is that the on the Judiciary. To that inotion the Senator
excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for
tion recurs on the motion of the
t'nited States, known as articles
tude, except as a punishment for me to
SEC. 2 And Congress shall have per
1 All persons borg or naturalitat i States, and subject to the jardin citizens of the United States and the sol
they reside, No State shall bakearch I Sea
deprive any person of life, liberts, ar out due procons of lar, dar da within its pjurisdiction the goal jou several States according to the counting the whole number of
Icluding Indians not taral Bure
THE CONGRESSIONAL GLOBE.
Mr. FERRY. I withdraw the main
0 ment is withdrawn.
Mr. DOOLITTLE. I more to ena's y motion by including in it the erstzia
The PRESIDENT pro tempore ize er tion is on the amendment of the Satunya
Mr. DOOLITTLE. Senators se n they prefer to take the question on ai • separately, and that I can make the man mg i refer these papers afterward
, if the esta or referred. To gratify Senators I rides at amendment.
on i The PRESIDENT pro temper. The ald 'tion is on referring the credentiale ise ons 'to the Committee on the Judiciar, si: ith resolutions of ratification of the Legaz
ill, Florida. w. Mr. CONNESS and Mr. STETA. ibe for the yeas and nays; and they were
Mr. ÉDMUNDS. As the peasante fato be taken, I wish in one word in 1 of reason for my vote. "I have, at one
me, no difficulty with the questo tis omogy--if my friend from Wassehat ary, SEXX Es} thinks that is a proper ents
which has been raised bere; bet net on, the condition that these States her vel and the fact that there are several tite,
more or less analogous to come on: ore:, that it is wise, as a mere mater e per lem although I myself see no objetni
en papers, to send them to the cons2 bat: committee meet to-Morton and cu wont worrow; and then everybody ra. No
the and we shall have a precedent al seu ents doing business which will not learetail · be as we are, in doing things in të jets rop' method, to go astray
. That is are end voting to refer, not that I see day!
President and Vice President of the United States, this it reads " or Vice President." I do not refer because it struck me that the form of
attach great importance to that; but still it is a ratification was, to say the least, unusual, the laturo thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabit
verbal difference; it is not the amendment that language not being that of the Constitution, ants of such State, being twenty-one years of age we proposed.
and possibly not embracing what is intended and citizens of the United States, or in any way But here, sir, is another change which is by the Constitution. I raised this doubt for abridged, except for participation in rebellion or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall
material in my judgment. In that same third the purpose of eliciting some discussion on the be reduced in the proportion which the number of section the words in the original are," shail | subject. It seems, however, that the Senate, such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such
have engaged in insurrection or rebellion in voting by a very large majority not to refer State.
against the same or give aid or comfort to the the papers to the committee, are of opinion 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative enemies thereof." They have it there “aid that that form of ratification is sufficient, and in , or hold any office, civil or military, under the United
and comfort,'' substituting the word “and,”: || that the language used by thė Legislature of States, or under any State, who, having previously the copulative instead of the disjunctive "or.” Florida, "adopted,'' is the equivalent of the taken an oath as a member of Congress, or as an That I take to be substance.
word "ratified in the Constitution itself. So oflicer of the United States, or as a member of any State Legislature, or as an executive or judicial
Again, sir, the fifth variation is the insertion in far I have effected one purpose, and that was officer of any
State, to support the Constitution of the fourth section of the particle “the” before | to ascertain the sense of the Senate upon that the United States, shall bave engaged in insurrec the word "payment.” I do not attach any im- point; and that being the sense of the Senate, tion or rebellion against tho same, or given aid and comfort to the onemies thereof. But Congress may,
portance to that. Again, the substitution of the as appears by a very large majority, I shall by a vote of two thirds of each House, remove such
word “or” for “nor in that same seetion where now vote to admit the Senator to his seat. disability.
it reads in the original, “But neither the I do not think, however, that the copy of the 4. The validity of the public debt of the United
United States nor any State shall assume," &c. fourteenth article of amendment, as set out in States authorized by law, including debts incurred for the payment of pensions and bounties for services There they have substituted the word "or" for the paper furnished to the Senate, is the official, in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be "nor." I do not attach great importance to authentic copy. It was not necessary, as has questioned. But neither the United States or any State shali assame or pay any debt or obligation incurred
that; but here, Mr. President, are no less than been very properly remarked by the Senator in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United
six variations between the amendment they set from Indiana, that the Legislature of Florida States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of out in their joint resolution and that which we should undertake to furnish a copy in totidem any slave: but all such debts, obligations, and claims sball be held illegal and void.
proposed to them, and two of those variations verbis of the article. The official and conclu. 5. Congress shall have power to enforce, hy approare matters of substance.
sive proof of what the fourteenth amendment priate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Now, sir, I have done my duty; I have of the Constitution is exists in the roll itself
called the attention of the Senate to the fact | engrossed and tiled away with the proper WILLIAM LEE APTHORP, Secretary. that the very evidence which they present here Department of the Government. That is the Passcd by the Assembly, June 9, A. D. 1868.
to show that they have ratified the constitu official evidence of what is meant by Congress W, W. MOORE, Sneaker.
tional amendment proves that they have not and by the States ratifying it by the fourWILLIAM FORSYTH BYNUM, Clerk. Approved, June 11, A. D. 1868.
done it, and that they have ratified another teenth amendment." I therefore look upou HARRISON REED, Governor. thing. Now, if the Senate choose to admit these small discrepancies pointed out so ingen
their Senators, let them go ahead and do it as iously by the Senator from Missouri as being STATE OF FLORIDA, EXECUTIVE OFFICE. This is to certify that the foregoing is a true and fast as they please; my duty is done.
entirely immaterial, so far as the evidence of correct copy of the original resolution, as the same
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is moved what the amendment actually is, is concerned. appears on file in this office.
and seconded that the Senator-elect from Flor Mr. EDMUNDS. The Legislature of FlorIn testimony whoreof I have hereunto set my hand || ida be permitted to take the oaths with a view | ida, according to this transcript which they (L. 8.) and a fixed the great seal of the State of Flor'ide, this 22d day of June, A. D. 1868. to be admitted to his scat.
send us, did not have the thirteenth and fourHARRISON REED, Governor. Mr. DRAKE. I will make one inquiry be- || teenth articles before them to adopt, unless Mr. DRAKE. I trust now, sir, that the fore I take my seat. That, I presume, neces these articles which they set out are substanSenate will perceive the propriety of the in- sarily affirms on the part of those who vote to tially the thirteenth and fourteenth articles. vestigation of this matter by the Judiciary | sustain that motion that that State has ratified Mr. HOWARD. Are they not bound to Committee, which I desired should be made. the constitutional amendment. Is not that so, take notice of the fact that the public statutes There are no less than six variations between sir ?
ezist? the fourteenth constitutional amendment as set The PRESIDENT pro tempore. I
suppose Mr. EDMUNDS. Not by any means, when outin that joint resolution and the one that was it is.
as an independent State they are called upon proposed. And now the question is whether Mr. DRAKE. Very well, sir; I call for the to give the assent of their will to what then we are to admit this State into the Union with || yeas and nays upon the question.
amounts to a compact between the Government a ratification of the constitutional amendment The yeas and nays were ordered
of the United States and the State, and an in any other shape than the exact form in which Mr. MORTON. So far as these objections | irreversible contract. Suppose the Legislature it was proposed.
are concerned, these variations that have been of Florida had had an entirely and totally In the first place, there are some of those pointed out by the Senator from Missouri, they || different paper, the reverse of this one that we variations that perhaps might not be regarded are clearly not of substance in this connection. have got before us, before them, and some peras material, there are others that are material. It was not necessary to set forth these amend. son who presented it had made that Legislature In the first section, where the amendinent reads ments at all. They would have been suffi- believe that that was the article they were called that certain persons
" are citizens of the Uni. ciently described by saying "the thirteenth upon to see and to know; because the ground ted States and of the State wherein they reside, and fourteenth amendments." That was all upon which we go is that when Congress prothe word “of” is left out before the words that was necessary, and these verbal differences posed this article to those States as States the "the State." In the last line of that first sec amount to nothing, because the amendments State of Florida was not in condition to receive tion, which reads in the original “nor deny to are fully and completely identified. Although any such proposal. It had no Legislature ; it any person within its jurisdiction the equal there may be these verbal differences, does I had no organized government. We set up one protection of the laws," the word “its" is | anybody doubt but what they are the thirteenth | three or four days ago, or a week ago, whatsubstituted for the word "the" before "laws,'' and fourteenth amendments as proposed by
ever the time was. That body of men having which I take to be a very material variance | Congress? All that is required' is, that the a right to pass as a matter of will and assent not only in language, but in substance. And, l amendments ratified shall be pointed out, shall upon the question of whether they would agree sir, how do you know, how does anybody know be designated with reasonable certainty to this proposal, (because you must remember to-day, that that was not an intentional variation Mr. CONNESS. Identified.
that by the Constitution of the United States put in there by the Legislature of Florida? Mr. MORTON. Identified, to use that || amendments of the Constitution are mere proMr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Read that sen
and are they not identified? The vari- | posals to the States in their sovereign, indetence again?
ances themselves are immaterial. They would pendent, and political capacity,) they have a Mr. DRAKE. Nor shall any State "deprive not be good on a special demurrer in any court. text presented to them which differs in a mateany person of life, liberty, or property without They do not go to the substance. It seems rial particular--take that for granted for the due process of law, nor deny to any person that the Clerk in copying them has used the moment--from the original proposition that within its jurisdiction the equal protection of word “or” where he should have said “nor," Congress has adopted. They adopt that false the laws; and they have it in their resolution and he has put the word “its' where he should and different proposition and send it to the "protection of its laws." Is that the amend have said *the;" but the meaning of the Secretary of State. Will my friend from Michimeut that you proposed to that State to ratify? || amendments is not changed and certainly || gan or my friend from Indiana maintain that It is not the amendment; and now you are there is no doubt as to what amendments are the Secretary of State will be authorized upon pressing or rushing into an admission of the intended. They describe the amendments as such a certificate, under the law as it now stands, Senators and Representatives from that State the thirteenth and fourteenth proposed by to promulgate that that article had been adopted, here when they have not ratified the amend. || Congress to be ratified or adopted by the sev supposing Florida to be the key-stone, so to went that you sent to them. " Its laws" may eral States. Upon that subject there is no speak, the last one of the three fourths? I mean one thing, and “the laws," which mean || doubt; and these verbal differences in this take it nobody will maintain that proposition; all laws which bear upon that State, may be an connection are utterly unimportant.
and that is exactly this proposition, provided entirely different thing.
Mr. HOWARD. I had hoped, sir, that this || there is a material and substantial difference Again, sir, the third section of the amend. matter would have been referred to the Com between the two documents. I agree that the ment reads in the original no person shall be mittee on the Judiciary, for the purpose of mistake in the use of the word “the," or the & Senator or Representative in Congress, or removing any uncertainties which might exist | dropping of an article or anything of that kind elector of President and Vice President." In in the papers, and I supported the motion to would make no difference; every lawyer knows
The question being taken brease resulted-yeas 16, nayə 30; ai kur YEAS-Mesers. Anthony, Baekuler
, in little, Drake, Edmuods, Fessenden. Baci ani, Johnson, McCreery, Morili res Vermont, Vorton, Patterson of Neress" Vickers-16.
SAYS-Mesers, Cameron, Castell Pant
Coonees, Corbett, Cragin, Ferry, Fre? by lan, Howe, MeDonald, Morzsa, W. the
eroy, Ramsey, Ruk, Shermad. *
les, Fillia:ns, Wilson, and Fate-1 gh. 1 ABSENT-Messrs. Bayard, Cooking 3
ler, Grimes, Henderson, Patterson el lot ited Saulsbury, and Sprague-12
| The PRESIDENT pro tenper
Wisconsin, (Mr. Howe,] that the # the be permitted to take the catas
Nr. DRAKE. I ask for the rest supposed resolution of ratificati na nas lature of Florida.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore per
read if there be no objection.
The Chief Clerk read as follows: Be it rerolved by the people of the fieri Senate and Assembly reprezekiel 10 proposed amendments to be con teenth, be, and the same are bereby
, ako und
XIII ANESYEN SECTION 1. Neither slavery ear innan party shall have been day carried within the United States or aos place ** jurisdiction.
this article by appropriate legislazisa. seal
citizens of the l'aited
that; but if there is a difference in substance, should not deny to anybody the protection of Mr. Marvin as a Senator occupying this very then you cannot say that the assent of the the laws of the United States. That is all. I term--I object to another person being sworn Legislature of Florida, which she says was
in to take a seat in the Senate in his place. I given to this, was given to a different thing that
Mr. FKELINGHUYSEN. I think the desired that this question should be referred she did not have before her. That is the Senator from Vermont bases his whole argu to the Committee on the Judiciary and passed proposition.
ment on an assumption and a presumption, upon; but the Senate have been unwilling to The question, then, with me is whether this when the legal presumption is directly against do that, and therefore I have simply raised the document that is presented is substantially the him. His whole argument is based on the point, without arguing it. fourteenth article. There does not seem to be assumption that a true copy of the amendment I will conclude by saying that Judge Marvin, any special question on the thirteenth. The proposed by Congress was not sent to Florida. who has been elected as a Senator from Flor: Legislature of Florida gives notice to the Uni The presumption of law is that a true copy ida, is a gentleman of high intelligence and ted States as follows by this resolve: was sent.
high qualifications for the position. He was * Be it resolved by the people of the State of Florida in Mr. EDMUNDS. Where do you get that before and during the whole rebellion a most Senate and Assembly represented. That the following | presumption?
devoted friend to the Constitution and the proposed amendments to the Constitution of the United States, known, &c., be, and the same are
Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. The presump- | Union, giving no aid, countenance, or comfort hereby, adopted."
tion of law is universal, and withi which my in any manner whatever to the rebellion; was They give their assent to that which follows. friend is very familiar, that every officer dis himself acting as the judge of the district court Mr. CONNESS. Known as what?
charges faithfully and correctly his duty unless of the United States at Key West a portion of Mr. EDMUNDS. Known as the thirteenth
the contrary is shown. Therefore, the pre the time, and therefore there can be an objeeand fourteenth articles; but they say that that sumption is, that a true and correct copy was tion on the score af his pot being entirely qual which is known as the thirteenth and fourteenth
sent, and not that an erroneous one was, ified to take the office or to take the oath of articles, and that to which they agree, is here
and that they did have the true amendment office which is required by law. written;, and they say it in good faith. That
before them, and that having it before them Mr. WILLIAMS. I should like to ask the happened to be å misprint, I suppose, in the they send us their certificate that they have Senator a question. He says that Florida bas copy that they happened to have before them.
adopted the thirteenth and the fourteenth never been out of the Union. No one preNow, they assent to that. It turns out that || amendments; and that is enough.
tends that it ever has been out of the Union; the article Congress proposed is an entirely || enough of those two amendments to further should like to ask him if he holds that Florida,
But they go further than that. They recite but this is a question of representation. I adopting this the Legislature has adopted the identify them than by their nuinbers. Why, with a confederate State government, was enother and the different one? She says that sir, not only every Siate but every citizen of titled to representation in Congress ? that article which is known as article fourteen
the United States knows, and is to be presumed Mr. DOOLITTLE. Wbile Florida was under to which she agrees is here written in the fol.
to know, as a matter of current history, what the control of the confederate arms it would lowing language. If that language is entirely
this fourteenth amendment is. It is in every be impossible for Florida to hold an election and substantially different upon a material newspaper; every person reads it; and when either for a member of the House or a member point, can you say that she has not agreed to
Florida sends us word that she has adopted the of the Senate; but in 1860, almost a year and this, for which she has voted, and has agreed to
fourteenth amendment, and the thirteenth a half after the war was over, after peace had another and a different proposal, for which she
amendment that is enough. Can it be that the been proclaimed, and Congress had by law has not voted? If you can, you must possess
fundamental law of a nation rests upon these recognized the fact that peace was proclaimed, powers of legal logic
critical accuracies? If you go and look at the the Legislature of Florida, the State then being Mr. CONKLING. What is the difference?
amendments which have been adopted--I have in a peaceful condition, assembled and elected Mr. EDMUNDS. We are coming to see never examined them-I venture to say that the
person to whom I have referred and whose what the difference is, if there be any. The
you can prove that not a single amendment credentials I have presented to the Senate. only material difference-for I do not wish to
has been adopted correctly to the Constitution, Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not understand the occupy time about this is that which is con if leaving out the word “the” or substituting Senator to have answered the question which tained in the clause read by the Senator from
"its" for “the” is enough to upset a law. I propounded. He says that it was impossible Missouri last:
This objection would hardly be sufficient on a for Florida during the rebellion while it had a "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life,
special demurrer to an indictment for counter confederate State government to hold an elecliberty, or property without due process of law, nor
feiting. There is a principle of law which tion. It was not physically impossible. Florida deny to any person within its jurisdiction the cqual certainly we can invoke when we are dealing could have elected Senators and Representaprotection of its laws."
with great national subjects; de minimis non tives under that confederate State government; That is to say, the laws of that individual curat lex ; the law itself will not pay attention and the question is, would those Senators and State, What kind of a constitutional amend to these little insignificant things.
Representatives, if elected, have been entitled ment would that be if Congress should pro Mr. DOOLITTLE. I desire to say but a at that time to admission into Congress? I pose it in that forin ; if we had coolly said to word. I shall vote against this motion, but should like to have the Senator make, if he The State of Mississippi, with lier black code for another reason than that which is satisfac pleases, a categorical answer to that question. and her unequal suffrage code,
6 You shall tory to the minds of other gentlemen; a rea Mr. DOOLITTLE. I have given the Sena. not deprive any person in the State of Missis son which is satisfactory to my own.
tor the answer to the question. It was in Florsippi of the equal protection of your laws;' On the 3d of March, 1815, the State of ida precisely as it would be in Oregon if there that is to say, "you shall enforce your laws, || Florida was admitted into the Union as one
was an insurrection there. If there was an just as the laws themselves are required to be of the States of this Union. It has never been insurrection raging in Florida you could not enforced, upon all your persons according to out of the Union. An effort was made to take hold an election. If there was an insurrection their respective conditions;'' that is, "you it out of the Union, commencing in 1860, but raging in the State of Maine, or if part of the shall put your laws in process of execution that effort was overcome, and the State of State of Maine was captured, as it once was by there l'airly and fully.” Then she would be Florida remained in the Union, and has con British forces, you could not hold an election bound by such a constitutional provision to tinued to reinain in the Union ever since its ll there. But I do not wish to go into a dialogue exclude the black man from the suffrage, to first admission on the 3d of March, 1845. My or a long discussion. exclude him from the witness stand, and to opinion is-I will not argue it, but simply state Mr. HOWE. Will my colleague allow me hang bim upon the testimony of any one white it-that neither by secession nor rebellion was to ask him a question? man who might choose to complain ; whereas it possible for the State of Florida to be taken Mr. DOOLITTLE. I have no objection to the United States, in order to overcome that out of the Union, unless that rebellion were a question. very inequality of State laws, differing one consummated as a success and a triumph of Mr. HOWE.
The question is, if in fact from another as to the equal rights of persons, arms in the end against the Government. The Florida did not have a Legislature which met declared in the fourteenth amendment that the rebels had no power to cut their way out of the annually during the years of the war, wbich met States should not deprive any person within Union by the sword, because we wrested the and passed laws. their jurisdiction of the equal protection of sword out of their hands and compelled the Mr. DOOLITTLE. Florida organized a the laws." What laws? The laws of the land State to remain in the Union as one of the war with the confederate States against the which the Constitution of the United States States of the Union. Further, I hold it to be Government of the United States, but in 1866 declares to be the acts of Congress made pur equally clear that Congress, has no power by the war was over.
Senators do not come to suant of it. That is what Florida was not to legislation to it a State out of the Union. the point I make at all. There was no war in deprive any person of within her jurisdiction Neither secession nor the legislation of Con 1860. Peace had been proclaimed, and Conthe civil rights bill, which was carried through gress can accomplish it. The one is as much
gress by law bad recognized the fact that peace this body by the honorable Senator from Illi against the Constitution as the other.
was proclaimed. There was no insurrection nois, (Mr. T'RUMBULL.] Now, Florida agrees, The Legislature of the State of Florida on and no interruption of the law. not by any intention, I do not wish to be under the 28th of November, 1866, elected Hon. Mr. HOWE I asked permission to put a stoud, but as it stands bere written in what she William Marvin as a Senator for the term com
question to my colleague, and be allowed me brings forward, that she will not deprive any. mencing on the 4th of March, 1867, to end on to do it. Now I wish he would angwerit. The body within her borders of the protection of the 4th of March, 1873 ; which is the precise question is, Did not Florida have a Legisla her own laws, will give them a fair chance term for which the person who is now pro
ture which met annually to pass laws through under just such laws as she chooses to enact; posed to be admitted was elected; and, if I am
every year of the war? and we call that a substantial agreement to correct--and the paper which I have presented
Mr. DOOLITTLE. I suppose those adher what we bave proposed, which was that she to the Senate, I think, proves the election of
ing to the confederacy elected a Legislature.