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Murray; the gentle persuasiveness of Wilber- | highest for its wisdom and its security to freedom volume. On the 10th of August, 1789, the Presforce; the splendor of Sheridan; the wisdom of of all the constitutions of the civilized world. It ident sent in a message by the hands of General Camden; the vigor of Lord Grenville; the epigram does not become us, therefore, to set it aside as un- Knox, who delivered the same,

together with of Grattan; the brilliance of Canning; the substan- | worthy of our study, of our careful observation. I a statement of the troops in the service of the tial logic of Peel; the invective, pathos, and humor Gentlemen should not forget thal, in the days of United States." He made to the House of Repof O'Connell; the brilliant antithesis of Shiel; the || George III, England, as well as America, eman- resentatives statements about troops in the sermasterly force of Lyndhurst, and the rushing ve- cipated herself from the tyranny of kingly prerog. vice, so that the statements referred 10 are not hemence of Brougham, all adorn the parliamentary alive; and it may be well questioned whether the merely statements of the fact that he delivered a oratory of England, and would have adorned it still

two streams that sprung from that great struggle message of the President. more had not the seductions of power often led have not been fowing in parallel channels of Mr. MORRILL. I do not like to interrupt them to degrade their genius and forget their inspi- | equal depth and greatness, one on this continent the gentleman from Ohio, (Mr. GARFIELD,] but ration as the guardians of England's greatness and and the other in the British islands.

I must insist that his second instance does not glory. ltis, alus! 100 true, that their finest efforts It may well be doubled whether there is not

prove the fact which he assumes. He will find, were made either in the defense or prosecution of as much popular freedom and more parliament- if he will proceed further on in the same volume, great crimes and wrongs. Need I show to this | ary security in the Kingdom of Great Britain than that when the question came up distinctly upon House how pobly our own Senate and this House in this Republic. A gentleman who has lately allowing the Secretary of the Treasury lo come in have been graced by our own orators? Their like crossed the sea, a man of great ability, and a phil. l here for once, and once only, it was then declared Wir never more be seen here, until the Executive | osophic observer, has said that to-day the British that it would be selling a new precedent, one with his millions shall here creep into our free ministry is nothing more nor less than "a com- which they could not tolerate, and which they did Halls, and by his corrupting influences call for the mittee of the House of Commons." And I be- not tolerate, but voied down after discussion. deep thunders and fierce lightnings of a nation's lieve he described it correctly. I believe that no Mr. GARFIELD. The gentleman has helped wrath expressed in the noble fervor of the future nation has a ministry so susceptible to the breath to pioneer my way handsomely thus fur. Tam tribunes of the people.

of populur opinion, so readily influenced and so coming to the very eximple to which he refers, In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I place my warn- completely controlled by popular power, as is the and which I have examined with some care. 1 ing voice, not so much against this measure, but ministry of Great Britain by the House of Com- come now to my second point, the discussions using it as the occasion, against that truckling mons. Let one vote be given against the plans in the Congress of the United States touching subserviency to the power of the Executive of that ministry and it is at once dissolved. It the constitutionality of the proposed law. There which will dethrone the people and make them exists by the will of the House of Commons. were discussions ai five different periods, and only fit tools for the corruption of an evil dny. The How does this come about? From the fact that five, so far as I have found, touching this general exercise of arbitrary prerogatives may not be at the very time we emancipated ourselves from the subject, in the history of Congress. The first here enacted; no armed troops may enter here; | kingly prerogatives of George III, so by the par- occurred in the First Congress, when it was prono arrests may violate our privileges; but if they liamentary reforms in Great Britain did that nation posed to establish Executive Departments. do not, the evil serpent of corruption may creep also emancipate itself and establish parliamentary On the 19th of May, 1789, Mr. Boudinot, of into our places and insinuate its cunning and thus liberty in England. It does not, therefore, be- New Jersey, moved that the House proceed, pur. corrupt the integrity of the Legislature. Mem. come gentlemen to appeal to our ancient preju- suant to the provisions of the Constitution, to bers may here fall a victim to power, if not open dices, so that we may not learn anything from establish Executive Departments of the Governand bold, secret and malevolent; and when that that great and wise system of government adopted ment, the chief oflicers thereof to be removable at fall begins, where will it end except in the fall of by our neighbors across the sea.

the will of the President. Under that resolution our liberties? Recollect that in civil wars moral In the consideration of this question I shall arose a full discussion of the nature of the offices obligations are torn asunder, the peaceful habits touch upon three leading points: first, precedents to be created, by whom the officers were to be of lite and thought are disturbed and destroyed, from our own history; second, the constitution || appointed, and by whom removed. The discusand other virtues not so compatible with liberiy, | alily of the proposed measure as exhibited in the sion covers forly or filly pages of the volume bebut always compatible with licentiousness, alone

early discussions and laws; and third, ils policy. fore me, and embraces some of the very ablest survive. When we have progressed so far on the The precedents ciied by the gentleman from expositions of the Constitution to be found in the path of military renown that the nation will begin Ohio, [Mr. Pendleton, the chairman of the se. early annals of Congress. After this long discusio regard its best defenders as iis foes, and ihe lect committee, in his very able report, established sion the following results were arrived al, which enemy of its corruptions as the enemy of its Con

beyond all question that in the early days of the will answer some of the points just made by my stilution-then indeed will liberty have lost its Republic, under the Constitution, heads of De- | colleayue from Ohio: last refuge, perhaps even here in this Hall of the

partments did come upon the floor of Congress people; and though, like its devotee, Algernon

First, that the Departments were to be estab. and make communications. No man, I believe,

lished by Congress, and the duties and general Sydney, it may move with serene eye, untroubled has denied that; I think no gentleman can sucpulse, and unabated resolve, from this, its chosen

scope of powers vested therein to be established cessfully deny it. My friend from Vermont, (Mr. by law; but the incumbents of these offices were forum, to the scaffold of its fate, we may yet || MORRILL,] if I understand it, denies that they did to be appointed by the President, and removable mourn over its memory, or, disdainful of its

more than to meet the Senate in executive session. at his pleasure. executioner, soar away to some loftier code of I am glad to see that the gentleman assents lo my It was clearly determined, in the second place, justice and right, where equality and freedom can statement of his position.

that these officers could be removed in two ways: be realized in the splendor of a better vision.

I will now cite two examples where the head Mr. GARFIELD. Mr. Speaker, I will not

first, by the President; second, by impeachment of a Department came on the floor of the House

in the usual modes prescribed in the Constitution. detain the House long on this subject. I know and made statements. If the gentleman will turn It was thus settled, in this great discussion, how difficult it is to get the attention of members, to the first volume of the Annals of Congress, page when they have just attended a place of amuse

not, as is said by my collengue who has just taken 684, he will find the following entry under date his seal, that Cabinet minisiers are the creatures ment, to the consideration of a grave measure. of August 7, 1789: I know how ungrateful a task it is to attempt to

of the President and responsible to bim alone, but The following message was received from the Presi

that their very Departments and the whole organirecall their attention after the exhibition to which dent of the United States by General Knox, the Secretary

zation of them depend in every case upon the law the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. Cox] has treated of War, who delivered therewiih sundry statements"them. The gentleman's speech sufficiently proves

of Congress, and they are subject to impeachment Some gentlemen may say those statements were

for neglect of their duties or violation of their that he has read his law on the subject from Ser- in writing. I ask them to listen a little further:

obligations in those offices. geant Buzfuz, and his constitutional and legisla- " who delivered therewith sundry statements and papers The second discussion occurred in the same year tive history from Tittlebat Titmouse, to whom relating to ilic same.'

when the Treasury Department was established, he has just referred; for certainly the history of So that the Secretary of War came to the House and in that instance the discussion became more legislation, as reflected in the Journals of Con- of Representatives and made statements. gress, gives no support to his position.

Me: MORRILL. I will say to the gentleman precise and critical, bearing more nearly upon the I am glad, Mr. Speaker, thai we can, for once,

A clause was

particular question now before us. from Ohio (Mr. GARFIELD] that I take that 10

introduced into the law establishing the Treasury approach the discussion of a measure on its own mean nothing more than what the Private Secremerits, uninfluenced by any mere party consider- tary of the President now does every day. At

Department, providing that the Secretary of the ations. I wish we might in the discussion of this that time the President of the United States had

Treasury should be directed to prepare plans for

the redemption of the public debt, and for all the subject be equally free from that international no Private Secretary, but he used the members jealousy, that hereditary hatred, so frequently

of the Cabinet for that purpose,

e, and for that pur

different measures relating to his Department,

and and unreasonably manifested against Great Bric- pose here only. ain. I have noticed on the faces of members of the Mr. GARFIELD. I would like to ask my

“ That he shall make report and give information to

either branch of the Legislature, either in person or in House a smile of satisfaction when any speaker friend from Vermont (Mr. MORRILL) whether the writing (as may be required) respecting all matters which has denounced the proposal to copy any custom Private Secretary of the Presidentever makes any may be referred to him, by ibe Senate or House of Repreof, or borrow any experience from, the Govern- statements except the mere announcement of the sentatives, or which shall appertain to his office.” ment of England. No man on this floor is more message which he delivers?

The debate took a very wide range. It was desirous than myself to see this Republic stand Mr. MORRILL. I take it that that was all that objected by several members that the provision erectamong the nations, and grant and exact equal was contemplated then. We daily have commu- was unconstitutional, on the ground that the justice from Great Britain. I fully appreciate how nications from the President, containing more House was the only power authorized to originTietle friendship she has shown us in our great than one document, statement, or paper.

ate money bills, and that such an enactment would national struggle, yet I will not allow my mind Mr. GARFIELD. Niy friend from Vermont put that power in the hands of the Secretary to be so prejudiced as not to see the greatness, [Mr. Morrill] has assisted me. He now makes of the Treasury. A very long discussion ensued the glory, and the excellence of the British con- the point that the expression "statements,” here on what was meant by "originating a bill." stitution. I believe thai, next to our own, and in referred to, is merely the announcement of a mes- Some contended that to drafi a bill was to originsome respects perhaps equal, if not superior, to sage. I call his attention to the second case ate it. Others that no proposed measure was a our own, the constitution of Great Britain stands which I will cite, from the 689th page of the same bill until the House had passed it; while others again said that it was a bill whenever the House tived, and it was resolved to empower the Com- || a thing shall be done, the thing to be done being authorized it to be introduced. Finally, it was mittee of the Whole House to send for persons already provided by law. The heads of Departdetermined that there was nothing incompatible and papers in the case. On the following day the ments do now make known their plans and views; with the Constitution in allowing the Secretary Secretary of War, General Knox, addressed a they do now communicate to the House all that of the Treasury to report plans and prepare drafis letter to ihe Speaker of the House, asking an op- this resolution contemplates that they shall comof bills. It was thus sellled, and has been the portunity to vindicate himself before the House. municate. It is only a question of mode. They policy of the Government till the present day, It was said by the gentleman from Vermont (Mr. now communicate with ihe pen. This resolution ihat ihe Secretary of the Treasury may properly Morrill) yesterday, that General Knox was not proposes to add the tongue to the pen, the voice draft bills and prepare plans, and present them permitted to come in. A discussion of the subject io the document, the explanation io the text, and to Congress. And it is still a part of our law- followed the presentation of his request. T'he nothing more. It is simply a proposition to add I have the provision before me

House had not been satisfied with the report and 10 our facilities by having them here to expluin 6. That the Secretary of the Treasury shall make report recommitted it to the committee for further orally what they have already transmitted in docuand give information to either branch of the Legislature, examination. After the recommitment of the mentary form. either in person or in writing, as he may be required."

report, the Secretaries were brought before the And this brings me to the third and last point Let it be understood that in the First Congress committee and examined, so that their testimony | I propose to examine in this discussion-the polof the United States a law was passed-approved reached the House in that mode. The question icy of the proposed change, on which, I admit, September 2, 1789, by George Washington- was never put to the House whether they would there is much room for difference of opinion. The acled upon before in the House and in the Sen- or would not receive the Secretaries in the House, committee have given a very exhaustive stateate, by the men who framed the Constitution; but whether they should adopt the report or re- ment of its advantages in their report, and I will which law provided that it should be the duty of commit it and order the committee to take further | only enlarge upon a few points in ihcir statement. the Secretary of the Treasury to report his plans testimony. They did the latter. The proposi- || And, first of all, the proposed change will increase in writing or in person, as either House might tion to admit them to the House was not directly our facilities for full and accurate information as require. acted upon at all.

the basis of legislative action. There are some Mr. MORRILL. I desire to ask the gentleman Before leaving this subject I must refer to the gentlemen here who doubt whether we have a a question. When the Secretary had made out opinion of Mr. Madison as expressed in the de- right to demand information from the heads of Dehis plan in pursuance of the resolution by which bate of November 13, 1792, on the question of ad- partments. Do we get that information as rendhe was authorized to make it, did not the House, mitting the Secretaries 10 the House to take part ily, as quickly, and as fully as we need it? Let on the very first occasion when it could take action in the investigation of General St. Clair. This was me read an extract illustrative of the present plan. on the subject, distinctly discuss the question and the only quotation, I believe, which the gentleman

The President of the United States, in his last anrefuse bim the privilege of reporting in person? from Vermont (Mr. Morrill) found to apply di- nual message to Congress, says: Mr. GARFIELD. I am coming, in a moment, Pectiy to the point at issue. It is true that Mr. Mad

“The report of the Secretary of War, and the accompato that precise point.

ison did say he objected to the House resolution nying documents, will detail the campaigns of the armies The whole question of the undue influence on constitutional grounds. (See Annals, Second

in the field since the date of the last annual message, and which it might give to the Executive Departments

also the operations of the several administrative bureaus Congress, page 680.) But lie did not state what

of the War Department during the last year. It will also to allow Cabinet officers to make their reports was those constitutional grounds were. It is a litile

specify the measures deemed essential for the national defully examined; and after the fullest and freesi remarkable that he who had in 1789 spoke and fense, and to keep up and supply the requisite military discussion, which, even in a condensed form, cov- voted for the Treasury act authorizing the Secre

furce." ers some twenty pages of the book before me, the tary to report in person or in writing, as either Has that report been received? This message measure was passed without even a division, and House might direct, should declare only three was delivered to us at the commencement of the became the law of the land. ycars later that it was unconstitutional to let the

present session; we are now within five weeks of I now come to the point to which the gentle Secretary come before the House to give infor- its close; but up to this hour we have had no reman from Vermont his referred, the third of the mation or testimony,

port from the Secretary of War, no official advice five discussions, On the 9th day of January, 1790, Perhaps, sir, a little light of history will help from him in reference to the measures deemed the House received a communication from the to explain Mr. Madison's singular position. My essential for the national defense and to keep up Secretary of the Treasury, stating that, in obe- friend from Vermont (Mr. Morrill) will remem- and supply the requisite military force." "We dience to their resolution of the 21st of September | ber that within those three years Mr. Madison have been working in the dark, and it is only as previous, he had prepared a draft of a plan for and Hamilton had became seriously alienated we have reconnoitered the War Department, and funding the public debt, and was ready at their from each other, and the gifted authors of the forced ourselves in sideways and edgeways, that pleasure to report-it being setiled in the law, as Federalist were friends no longer. The great we have been able to learn what is considered esI have already said, that he should report in per- party strife had begun, and they had taken op- sential for the national defense. son or in writing, as he might be directed. The posite sides, Mr. Jefferson leading one party, Mr. Had this resolution been in force, we should question was discussed, as the gentleman from Madison following, and Mr. Hamilton leading long ago had his report in our hands, or his good Vermont noticed in his examination of the case another, and his friends, the Federalists, follow- and sufficient reason for withholding it. yesterday. Mr. Gerry moved that the report ing him. It is not, therefore, very surprising I call the attention of the House to the fact that should be made in writing. The question was that Mr. Madison should have been influenced, our table is groaning under the weight of resoludiscussed whether it should be made in writing, like others, by personal feeling, or at least by his tions asking information from the several Departor orally, and the chief argument used in the case political differences with the Secretary of the ments that have not been answered. Who does was that it would be impossible for members of Treasury. It is well known that his political not remember that at a very early day of the sesCongress to understand it unless it was reduced opinions were greatly changed by the influence sion a resolution introduced by a member from to writing, so that they could have it before them. of Mr. Jefferson.

Indiana (Mr. HOLMAN) was unanimously adopted It was also said that the scope and bearing of the The fifth and last discussion to which I shall | asking for executive information, and after four whole report would be so extensive that the hu- refer occurred on the 19th of November, 1792, or five weeks had elapsed another resolution was man mind could not comprehend the whole of it, on a resolution of the House directing the Secre- || adopted asking why the order of the House unless they could have it before them in a per- || tary of the Treasury to report a plan for the re- had been neglected and we had not been furmanent shape. It was conceded by several who duction of the public debt. The question of the nished with the information? But this also has spoke that the House could have the report made constitutionality of his reporting a plan at all fallen a brutum fulmen; we have received no anin writing or orally, or in writing with accom- again arose. The whole ground was again gone

Could these things be if the members of panying oral explanations. The constitutional over: Notwithstanding Madison's record in 1789, the legislative and execuuve departments were doubt was not suggested in that discussion. le he opposed it; but the resolution was passed sitting in council together? Should we not long was decided, withouta division, not that he should || againsi him by the decisive vote of 31 to 25. So ago have had the information or known the reanot be permitted to come into the House, but that that even down to that day, after parties had son why we did not have it? his report should be in writing. The law still taken their ground, after Madison and Hamilton On the subject of information I have a word stood, as it now stands, that he shall report in had become antagonistic, afier all the fierceness more to say. We wantinformation more in detail person or in writing, as either House may direct. of personal feeling was awakened, still the House than we can get it by the present mode. Forex

The fourth discussion related to the defeat of determined that ihe law should stand as it was ample, it would have aided many of us a few General St. Clair. I will remind the House of enacted by the First Congress. As the result of days sinee, when the loan bill was under considthe history of that case. In 1790 St. Clair was all these discussions, the custom obtained to re- eration, if the Secretary of the Treasury had been ordered to make an expedition against ihe Indi. ceive reports and information from the heads of here to tell us precisely what he intended in reans in the Northwestern Territory; his army was Departments in writing rather than in person. | gard to an increase of the volume of the currency disgracctully defeated, and the case was referred That custom bas now almost the force of law. under the provisions of the bill. We want to to General Washington, who declined to order a But while the Treasury act of 1792 remains on understand each other thoroughly, and when this court of inquiry, and the subject was taken up our statute-book we have a clear riglit to change is done it will remove a large share of the burdens in the House of Representatives, and on the 27th the custom. I claim thut by a simple resolution of legislation. of March, 1792, a commillee was ordered to in- of the House of Representatives alone, we can One other point on the policy of the measure, quire into the causes of the failure of the expedi- now call the Secretary of the Treasury here to ex- and I am done. I want this joint resolution passed rion. On the 8th of May following, the commil- plain in person any plan or measure of his, and he to readjust the relations between the executive tee made a repori wllich reflected severely upon is bound to come. The Senate can do the same for and legislative departments, and to readjust them the Secretary of the Treasury and the Secretary jiself. The very law which establishes his office so that there shall be greater responsibility to the of Wur. On the 13th of November, 1792, a res- and builds up his Department makes its obliga- legislative department than there now is, and that olution was introduced into the House, to notify tory upon him to come when thus ordered. This that responsibility shall be made to rest with the two Secretaries that on the following Wed- is true only of the Secretary of the Treasury. greater weight upon the shoulders of executive nesday the House would take the report into con- I hold it, then, fairly established that the meas- authority. șideration and that they might attend. After a ure before us is clearly within the scope of ourcon- I am surprised that both the gentleman from considerable discussion the resolution was nega- stitutional powers; that it is only a question how Vermont (Mr. MORRILL) and the gentleman



from Ohio (Mr. Cox] declare that this measure my remarks, for the gentleman from Pennsylvania | cal ground that the action thus proposed was not would aggrandize the executive authority. I to report his measures.

within the constitutional power of amendment. must say that, to me, it is one objection to this Mr. STEVENS. Very well.

The gentleman also, if I am not mistaken, opplan that it may have exactly the opposite effect.

posed the passage of the act enrolling and callI believe, Mr. Speaker, that ihe fame of Jefferson


ing out the national forces, upon the ground that is waning, and the fame of Hamilton waxing, in Mr. THAYER. Mr. Speaker, I am surprised it was an exercise of authority not conferred by the estimation of the American people, and that that any one can regard the measure now be- the Constitution, although that instrument had we are gravitating toward a stronger Government. fore the House as proposing anything less than | given to Congress an express, unqualified, and I am glad we are, and I hope the effect of this a fundamental change of our present system of unlimited power to raise and support armies. measure will cause the heads of Departments to Government. The Constitution declares that the Yet the honorable gentleman from Ohio sees nothbecome so thoroughly acquainted with the de- House of Representatives shall be composed of | ing in the Constitution opposed to the summary tails of their office as to compensate for the re

members chosen by the people. This bill pro- introduction into our political system, by means strictions imposed upon them. Who does not vides that persons not elected by the people, but of an act of Congress, of the great and radical know that the enactment of this law will tend to appointed by the President, shall occupy seats changes proposed by this bill. bring our ablest men into the Cabinet of the Re- upon the floor of this House, and participate in I am aware, sir, that neither the gentleman from public? Who does not know that if a man is to the deliberations thereof. The Constitution de- Ohio nor the other friends of the measure now bebe responsible for his executive acts, and also be clares that no person holding office under the fore the House will concede that it possesses the able to tell why he proposes new measures, and United States shall be a member of either House | importance which I attribute to it, or that it will to comprehend intelligently the whole scope of during his continuance in office. This bill gives | change, in any fundamental respect, the character his duties, weak men will shrink from taking such to such officers a qualified membership in this of the Government. Whether it will or will not places? Who does not know that it will call out House. The Constitution makes it the impera- is the precise question in debate. I believe that the best talent of the land, both executive and tive duty of the President to communicate directly it will; but that is in itself but the declaration of parliamentary?

with Congress, and to recommend to their con- an opinion of little value, unless it be founded What is the fact now? I venture to assert that

sideration such measures as he shall judge neces- upon correct views of human conduct apd a just the mass of our executive information comes sary and expedient. The practical eliece of this and true conception of all the conditions of the from the heads of bureaus, or perhaps from the bill will be to substitute for this direct communi

I shall trespass, therefore, upon the attenchief clerks of bureaus, or other subordinates un- cation the agency of his subordinate officers, and tion of the House for a few moments while I atknown to the legislative body. I would have it

for his recommendations the recommendations of tempt to vindicate the opinion I have expressed that when these men bring information before those officers.

by a statement of the reasons which have led me us, they shall themselves be possessed of the last By the Constitution the heads of the Executive to its adoption; and I do this with the less reitems of that information, so that they can ex

Departments are to be appointed by the President, luctance, sir, because the views which I take of plain them as fully as the chairman of the Com- by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, the effect of the proposed measure, and the line mittee of Ways and Means ever explains his and, except on impeachment for high crimes and of argument by which I shall oppose it; differ measures when he offers them before us.

misdemeanors, are removable at his pleasure | materially from those which have been presented One word morc, Mr. Speaker. Instead of see- alone. By the plan proposed in this bill these by honorable members who have addressed the ing the picture which the gentleman from Ohio officers, by the moral forces to be applied to them House in opposition to it. (Mr. Cox] has painted to attract our minds from in this House, will eventually hold their offices at In order to form a correct judgment upon the the subject matter itself to the mere gaudiness of

the will of the House of Representatives alone. probable results of the proposed measure it is nehis farcical display, instead of seeing that un

By the Constitution the President alone is charged cessary to consider its effect upon Congress, its worthy and unmanly exhibition in this House with the duty of administering the executive de- eflect upon the heads of the Executive Departwhich he has described, I would see in its place partment of the Government." The executive ments of the Government, and its effect upon the the executive heads of the Government giving in- power shall be vested in a President of the United || presidential office. formation to and consulting with the Represent- States of America,” and, for the purpose of aid- I am not among the number of those who atives of the people in an open and undisguised | ing him in the discharge of that duty," he may believe that either the independence, the politiway. Sir, the danger to American liberty is not require the opinion in writing of the principal cal freedom, or the constitutional powers of the from open contact with Departments, but from

officer in each of the Executive Departments upon House of Representatives would be abridyed by that unseen, intangible influence which character- any subject relating to the duties of their respective the presence in that body of the heads of the Exizes couris, crowns, and cabinets. Who does not

As the executive power is wholly his, ecutive Departments, and their participation in know, and who does not feel, how completely so the whole responsibility for its exercise rests the deliberations of Congress. In the House, the the reasons of a member may be stultified by some upon him. By this bill that responsibility will numbers which compose it, its varied and popuone getting up and reading a dictum of some head eventually be transferred to and divided among lar character, and the frequency with which it of Department that he thinks a measure good or the heads of the Executive Departments, and they | is reconstructed from the masses of the people, bad, wise or unwise? I want that head of De- transformed from mere executive agents—the furnish a sufficient guarantee against any apprepartment to tell me why; I want him to appeal to

President's head clerks, as John Randolph called hension. It is quite possible that at times the my reason, and not lecture me ex cathedra and them-into ministers of State, in the sense in which || partialities arising from personal intercourse, the desire me to follow his lead just because he leads. those words are used in the British constitution. conflict of personal opinion, the rivalries of deI do not believe in any prescriptive right to de

The result will be that while the President will bate, and the appeals to party discipline, might termine what legislation shall be. No, sir; it is still continue nominally to hold in his grasp the exercise influences now unfelt upon the legislathe silent, secret influence that saps and under- whole executive authority of the Government, tion of Congress, and that coteries might thus be mines the fabric of republics, and not the open

the responsibility for its exercise will be trans- formed in both Houses favorable or unfavorable to appeal, the collision between intellects, the array

ferred to a cabinet of ministers, assuming in this the measures advocated by the executive agents. of facts,

House (under the provisions of the bill) the direc- But these are influences which, from the changehope, Mr. Speaker, that this measure will be tion of public affairs, and successfully resisting or able character of this body, its natural jealousy fairly considered. If it do not puss now, the day

succumbing to the tide of public opinion accord- of executive interference, and the independence will come, I believe, when it will pass. When ing to the number of votes which ihey can com- which, by its very constitution, belongs to it, that day comes, I expect to see a higher type of

mand in the national Legislature. This may be a would, in my opinion, be sure to end, not in any American statesmanship, not only in the Cabinet, very good form of government, but it is not the diminution of the power and independence of but in the legislative halls.

form prescribed by the Constitution of the United Congress, but in the destruction of that of the Mr. THAYER obtained the floor. States.

heads of Departments, and, by consequence, of I repeat, therefore, sir, that I cannot forbcar the that of the Executive himself. I am not alarmed,

expression of some surprise that changes so fun- | therefore, by the terrible and Homeric picture Mr. COBB, from the Committee on Enrolled damental as these should be thought not to involve drawn by the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. Cox) of Bills, reported as truly enrolled an act to amend a change of the Constitution, and that it should the advent of the Secretary of War, with his myran act entitled "An act to amend and extend the be supposed that it is competent to alter the or- midons in blue, to the House of Representatives. charter of the Franklin Insurance Company, ap- ganism of the political system of the United States No, sir; the danger from the measure now proproved March 2, 1838;'' when the Speaker signed so materially as is proposed by this bill by the posed lies not in the abridgment of the power and the same.

simple instrumentality of an act of Congress. Nor importance of the legislative department of the DEFICIENCY BILL.

is my surprise diminished when I trace the pater- || Government, but in the disproportioned enlarge

nity of this measure to the honorable gentleman ment of that power and influence, the destruction Mr. STEVENS. Mr. Speaker, unless my col- || from Ohio, [Mr. PENDLETON,) whom my obser- of the legitimate influence of the executive office, league (Mr. TILAYER] is very anxious to go on vation during my brief experience here has led the confusion and mingling of powers which are with his remarks to-day, I should be glad to have me (perhaps erroneously) to regard as belonging now wisely separated, and the destruction of that a short time allowed to me, in order to report from to the school of constitutional interpreters known | nicely adjusted balance which is now characterthe Committee of Ways and Means a deficiency as strict constructionists. The distinguished gen- | istic of our system, and constitutes one of its bill-the same as that which has been lost between

tleman from Ohio, with many other honorable || principal safeguards. the two Houses-and one or two other matters

gentlemen, his political associates, resisted the When the heads of the Executive Departments that are very pressing.

passage of the bill submitting to the people of shall come into this House to participate in its Mr. THAYER. I do not intend to detain the ihe United States the proposed amendment of the debates, to be catechised by its inembers, to conHouse for a long time, and as it is somewhat Constitution abolishing slavery; and his objec- front their votes, it requires no great amount of doubtful whether this subject in reference to the tions, if I properly understood him, were based || foresight to perceive that they must submit themadmission of Cabinet ministers to Congress will not upon the broad and elevated philanthropy of selves to the judgment of this House and become be resumed, I prefer, uniess there is some very the gentleman from New York, (Mr. FERNANDO subservient io ils wishes and opinions, or relingreat pressure of business, to say now what I have Wood,] that slavery is the best possible condi- quish the offices which they hold. When outto say. There will be ample time, after I close tion of the black race, but upon the more techni- voied upon material issues they must retire. In



the necessity of this their own self-respect and plan of the Constitution, was made, within its been resorted to on the part of Congress for obthe popular expectation would coincide. If it proper sphere of duty, like the department of the taining such information have always been found be asked why this should follow any inore than judiciary, to a great extent independent of the le- | adequate for the purpose. Indeed it must be obat present, I answer because their relations to this gislative department of the Government, must, if vious upon the slightest reflection that the inforbody would be entirely dillerent from the relations it do not become wholly dependent upon il, lose mation obtained by the deliberate and written rewhich they at present hold to it. They are now much of the independence and power with which sponse of the heads of Departments to the resolubut the agents of the President in the administra- it is now invested. How long, for example, can tions of this House must be superior in value to tion of the executive power. They are appointed it be supposed that the power of the veto would the information proposed to be obtained by the by him; they are under his control; they report survive the consummation of the changes which plan of this bill by as much as a deliberately pretheir proceedings to him; they are responsible to have been indicated, or the supreme command of pared written statement of facts is superior in prehim for the discharge of their several duties. If the Army and Navy?

cision and accuracy of detail to an oral statement they recommend measures it is to the President. Sir, I am no advocate of any extension of the based upon the mere memory of the person who If those measures are approved by the President powers of the national Executive beyond the lim- utters it. he assumes the responsibility of them. If sub- its which are at present prescribed for them in The precedent for the proposed action, which mitted to Congress and rejected, it is simply a re- the Constitution; neither do I believe, on the other is supposed to be found in the act of 1789, fails jection of so much of the policy of the President. hand, that liberty is to be secured and perpetuated in this, that whereas that act made it the duty of No direct issue arises between Congress and the by a concentration of all the powers of the Gov-. || the Secretary of the Treasury alone to make rePresident's subordinates. In the new attitude ernment in the hands of the legislative depart- port and give information to either branch of the which they would hold under the provisions of ment. I have been taught by history that of all Legislature, in person or in writing, respecting this bill the case would be entirely altered. They tyrannies that is the most irresponsible and hope- matters referred to him by the Senate or House would stand here the personal representatives and less. That proposition was well stated by Mon- of Representatives, whenever he might be required ad vocates of measures advised and promoted by tesquieu when he said, “There can be no liberty so to do, this bill gives to the seven heads of the themselves. They must enter the lists and level where the legislative and executive powers are Executive Departments permanent seats in this their lances in defense of a policy of which they united in the same person or body of magis- body; and that, not for the single purpose of givstand forth the personal exponents and cham- trates. If we would maintain our free institu- || ing information, but for the purpose of participions. They must, in such a contest, abide the tions we must maintain the partition of power || pating in the debates of this House and influenissue of the personal struggle into which they among the several departments which is made in cing its action. I do not deny the power of the have entered, and if vanquished they must retire the Constitution, and the only way in which that House of Representatives to seek information and give place to the advocates of different meas- can be done is, as Mr. Madison declared, “ by so from any quarter to which it may see fit to apply ures and ihe champions of a different policy. In contriving the interior structure of the Government for it. It is upon that principle ii acts in allowing our system the legislative is the strongest depart- as that its several constituent parts may by their the claimant of a contested seat upon this floor to men of the Government. It preponderates vastly mutual relations be the means of keeping each be heard, but the occasional exercise of that unover the other two departments. No other de- other in their proper places.” In order to accom- doubted power is a totally different thing from partment can successfully contend against it. In plish this “each department should," as he also adding permanent members to this House not a battle between the Representatives of the peo- says, “have a will of its own; and consequently | elected by the people, and not possessing the qualiple and the advisers of the Executive the victory should be so constituted that the members of each fications demanded by the Constitution. Indeed, may be declared before the contest is joined. If should have as little agency as possible in the ap- when the restrictive character of the act of 1789 the advisers are beaten they must succumb. pointment of the members of the others." I be- is considered, together with the great caution

Between the Legislature and men holding to it lieve in the soundness of this doctrine, and hence I which was taken to guard it against a construction the personal relations which this bill contemplates do not believe in the plan proposed in the present which would authorize what is proposed in this there must existaccord. When that accord ceases bill. I do not believe in the wisdom of conferring || bill, it furnishes the best possible evidence that they can no longer be useful and must depart. authority upon the President to appoint members the opinions of the statesmen of that day were Thus, by the few words of this bill, are the Pres- of this House; nor do I believe in concentrating adverse to the scheme which is now proposed. ident's clerks to be turned into a responsible min- || in this House the power which by the Constitu- But the argument founded upon the alleged preceistry, charged with the conduct of public affairs tion belongs to the Executive. The measure pro- dents for this action has been so completely anin this House, originating, proposing, urging, de- || posed by the gentleman from Ohio is well adapted, swered and refuted by the gentleman from Verfending measures; speaking to-day amid cheers in my opinion, to destroy those mutual relations mont, (Mr. MORRILL,] that in my opinion no from the ministerial benches, sitting down to- which were established by the Constitution, and further argument upon that point is required. morrow amid groans and jeers from the opposi- which have hitherto answered the purpose of It is well known that when the Constitution tion benches; now drumming up votes for a crisis, keeping the constituent parts of the Government was formed several different plans were suggested and exhausting for that purpose all the resources in their proper places. “To what purpose,' in regard to the executive office and the execuof promises and rewards; now rejoicing in a fresh was well asked by Mr. Hamilton," do you sepa- tive

power. One of them proposed a double Exlease of power obtained by a majority of two; rate the executive or the judiciary from the legis- || ecutive, consisting of two persons, between whom again retiring in disgrace under the passage of lative power, if both the executive and the judi- | the power and responsibility of the office should a want-of-confidence resolution, and that, alas! ciary are so constituted as to be at the absolute be divided; another proposed a single Executive, without the consolatory recollections of a white- devotion of the legislative?" Such a separation hedged in by a council of State, whose assent bait dinner, for I do not understand that the Po- must be merely nominal, and incapable of produ- || should be necessary to render his acts valid. lomac will supply that aristocratic delicacy. It cing the ends for which it was established. There was much public discussion before it was is natural to suppose that officials, dependent as The feature of government embraced in the determined to give to the executive department those will thus necessarily be upon Congress for present bill is evidently borrowed from the con- of the Governnient the form and place which it the continuance of their power and importance, stitutions of England and other monarchical coun- now holds in the Constitution. But I am not will look rather to that body than to the Presi- tries. In those systems, in which the principle a ware that it was at any time proposed to mingle dent for support, and that they will address them- oblains that the king is irresponsible and can do the executive with the legislative department selves rather to the securing of votes and popu- no wrong, it is a wise invention to limit a power of the Government after the manner of this bill. larity there than to the independent discharge of which would otherwise be absolute; for it sub- It was, on the contrary, a fundamental idea, the duties of the executive branch of the Govern- stitutes for him, in the persons of the ministers of agreed to by all and adhered to throughout, that

A large part of the executive power and State, individuals who are responsible for the ex- the success of the plan adopted and the perpetuinfluence will thus be transferred to the House of ercise of the executive power. The only question || ity of the system depended in no small degree Representatives. This leads me to consider what which would vex the mind of a republican philos- upon keeping the different departments of power will probably be the effect of these changes upon opher in regard to the excellencies of those sys- as separate as possible, and in rendering them the presidential office. When the official agents lems would perhaps be this: of what use, then, no further dependent upon each other than was of the President shall represent him in Congress, is the king?' But, sir, no analogies can be traced proper for the creation of such necessary checks and the amount of their influence and their dura- between those systems and ours.

We have no as were indispensable to prevent the concentration in office shall both be measured by the ex- such fictions and stand in need of no such aids. tion of 100 much power in either. How pertent of their following and by the majorities By the Constitution the people have distributed | fectly the framers of the Constitution succeeded which they can command there, it would seem to the powers of the Government among several de- in this, let the harmonious working in all its debe a natural and probable result of such an ar- partments. They who exercise those powers are partments of this unparalleled plan of governrangement that the executive office itself must in directly responsible to them for their acts. By ment for a period of more than seventy years the end become subject to the absolute control of || making them responsible to each other, or by attest. There is nothing in the political history Congress. By such an arrangement responsibility shifting the responsibility from one to another, of the world which can be compared with it. is trunsferred from the President to a recognized or by mingling the powers which are severally There is no miracle of art, no triumph of nieministry, who become his brain, his voice, his delegated to each, we shall only introduce çon- chanical ingenuity, which can, in the beauty of hand; and they who have the responsibility, and fusion into what is now a harmonious system, its proportions, the renovation of its strength, who will reflect in the mutations of their political and unsettle at once the well-defined boundaries the regulation of its power, and the harmony of fortunes the fluctuating opinions of the Legisla- of authority and the foundations of the Govern- its operations, furnish us with any analogies to ture, must have the power also, for responsibility ment.

this great and wonderful framework of governand power go together. The executive respon- The argument, that a necessity exists for the ment, which, until our recent troubles began, persibility is thus transferred primarily to the parlia- introduction of this innovation upon the organic formed its functions more like the silent influences mentary representatives of the executive office, structure of the Government in order that Con- of nature than a human invention; which guarbut ultimately and really to the Legislature, which gress may avail itself of the best possible means antied universal security and order, commanded controls their conduct. Thus, by a total subver- of information in relation to the measures of legis- everywhere authority and respect, filled a contision of the present system, the subordinates be- lation on which it may be called to act, is desti- nent with peace, prosperity, and plenty, yet come the ostensible chiefs, the agents become the tule of any solid foundation in fact, No such upon

ihe shoulders of the people as lightly principals, and the executive office, which, by the necessity exists. The means which have hitherto as the air they breathed.



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It had, sir, but one whcel which in the roll of think, offend the consciences of the Senate. Iun- for his three months' service the handsome comyear's could give way. That has broken, scal- derstand that it will most likely pass that body pensation of $1,800; and yet the duties of a clerk iering ruin and destruction around; but the frog- in the form in which it is now reported. All the io a committee are not, even during the session, ments are being removed, a new one, stronger rest of the bill is precisely what we agreed to

of the most laborious character. Yet some genand better, let us thank God, than the old one, is before.

tlemen talk about the employés of this House about to replace it, as much stronger as justice is Mr. HOLMAN. I ask for the reading of the being unable to support themselves on the pay stronger than injustice, as much better as liberty section referred to by the gentleman from Penn- which they now receive! is better than oppression. But I deny that the sylvania, (Mr. STEVENS.)

The compensation paid to the employés of this organism needs any repair of the kind now pro- It was read, as follows:

House is in wonderful contrast with the salaries posed. I deny that any necessity exists for it.

Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, that the sum of 638.000

paid in other departments of the Government. No such necessity has been shown to exist. The be, and the same is liereby, appropriated, 10 be added 10 Many of the deparım tal clerks, with wives and proposition is for an alteration purely experi

the contingent fund of the House, to enable the House of children to support, receive but $1,200 or $1,600

Representatives to fulfill its pledges and obligations beretomental. It is not demanded by any exigency of jore made; and the same shall be audited and settled on

per annum, and this, too, for service, not during public affairs. It is not justified by any public such vouchers as shall be produced by the Clerk of the

only three months, but during the entire year, necessity. It is calculated to confuse the bound- llouse.

Yet as a mere mailer of favoritism-a favoritisın aries which should define the distribution of power Mr. STEVENS. That is the only alteration which is the more readily exercised because beand to unselile the balance of the Constitution. made in the bill. Some of the Senators said that slowed upon those with whom we are in daily The existing arrangements of the Constitution in when it was in the former shape they could not

intercourse-members of this House are willing this respect have not been proven to be either help seeing it, and therefore they objected to it.

lo exhibit this remarkable spectacle of partiality injurious or inconvenient. Why, then, should we I now call the previous question.

as legislators. I do not think, sir, that it is betinker all them, or substitute for a plan which has Mr. HOLMÁN. According to the order of the coming to this House to so entirely forget other stood the test of time and experience the im- House this bill is subject now to the same rules | employés of the Government in a favoritism aginary improvements of the anarchists of Mont- as in the Committee of the Whole. It is there- toward the employés of this House, however gomery?

fore inconsistent with that understanding to call much these gentlemen may be entitled to our reMr. Speaker, I do not desire to occupy more the previous question now. And I desire to move

spect and confidence for the faithful performance of the time of this House upon this subject. I to strike out the feature of the bill which has just of their duties. will yield the floor for the remainder of my time been read.

I trust, sir, that the House will strike out this to the gentleman from lowa, (Mr. Wilson.] Mr. STEVENS. The gentleman can move to

item of $38,000, and that we shall not set the Mr. WILSON oblained the floor.

strike that out, and then I will call the previous example of this partial system of legislation. I The SPEAKER. There are twenty-five min- question.

hope, especially, that gentlemen upon this side of utes of the time of the gentleman from Penosyl- Mr. HOLMAN. That is not in accordance the House, who have always, in their respective vania (Mr. THAYER) unexpired.

with the order of the House, that this bill shall States, protested against partiality in legislation, Mr. STEVENS. I ask the gentleman from be considered in the House subject to the rules

will not be found giving their sanction to a propoIowa (Mr. Wilson) to yield the floor at this time. in force in Commillee of the Whole.

sition so abhorrent to every principle of DemocIf he will do so, then I will ask the gentleman Mr. STEVENS. If the gentleman wants to racy. from Ohio (Mr. PendLETON) to consent to have debate the question for five minutes I have no Mr. RANDALL, of Pennsylvania. I desire, this subjeci postponed until I an report a bill objection, and will withdraw the call for the pre- | Mr. Speaker, to say only a single word in connecfrom the Committee of Ways and Means. vious question for that purpose.

lion with this matter, for the subject was very Mr. WILSON. I will yield the floor for that Mr. 'HOLMAN. I move to strike out section fully discussed yesterday, and the judgment of purpose.

two of this bill. What I especially object to in the House on the question was very decidedly Mr. PENDLETON. I shall be pleased to do that section is the proposition that ihis House is expressed. as suggested by the chairman of the Committee pledged to the payment of this additional twenty Sir, I do not, as the gentleman from Indiana of Ways and Means [Mr. STEVENS) if it shall per cent, to the employés of the House. The

(Mr. Holman) appears in do, regard this as a posuit the convenience of the House. Therefore, gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. STEVENS,) in litical question in any possible aspect. I have no in order to test the sense of the House, I will discussing this subject yesterday, referred to appeal to make to this side of the House on po move that the further consideration of this sub- precedents which had heretofore occurred, by litical grounds. My appeal in favor of this approjece be postponed until one week from to-morrow, which the House, by its own act, had appropri- | priation is to justice and just men, irrespective of which I believe is the first day upon the Calendar ated out of the contingent fund sums of money. politics. These employés of the House are, I which will be unoccupied by any special order, There are probably such instances, but I think | conceive, entitled to the money which we propose and that it be made the special order for that day. no case can be found where so large a sum as to appropriate. The faith of ihis House las been There is no vacant day to which I can postpone this has been appropriated on the one hand, or pledged io pay them this money, and I have no this subject until Friday of next week, which is where, upon the other hand, it was so distinctly idea of allowing the other branch of Congress to private bill day. I desire to suggest to gentlemen and fairly a proposition to increase salaries. dictate to us in relation to matters which pertain who are interested in the Private Calendar that Here is an attempt on the part of one branch solely to this House, and which should be under to-morrow has been especially assigned for its of Congress to appropriate $38,000, upon the our own control. I am not acquainted with any consideration. I hope the convenience of the idea that it has a righi lo act independently of principle of Democracy that warrants me in doing House will be consulied by postponing this sub- the other branch of Congress in the appropria- injustice. On the contrary, the Democracy which ject till that time.

tion of the public money. It is the most remark- I have learned has taught me to be just to all men. Mr. WEBSTER. 1 desire to say that there able state of affairs that has ever presented itself Mr. STEVENS. Mr. Speaker, I only wish has been no day devoted to the consideration of in this House. I think the country owes some- to say that this is the same proposition which was private bills during this session.

thing to the other branch of this Congress in re- yesterday sustained in this House by a vote of Mr. HOLMAN, To-morrow has been set sisting this assumption of power on the part of iwo to one, except that it is now put in such a apart for that.

the House of Representatives. A pledge! Why shape as will enable the Senate, without inconMr. WEBSTER. Very well. I will make no the gentleman from Pennsylvania,[Mr. STEVENS,] sistency, to acquiesce in it. objection to the postponement.

it seems to me, insults the intelligence of the coun- Mr.SLOAN. Willthe gentleman from Pennsyl. Mr. PENDLETON, I now move that the fur- try and of this House. A pledge on the part of vania (Mr. Stevens) consent to an amendment? ther consideration of this subject be postponed this House to give a certain sum of money! If Mr. STEVENS. Let me first hear what it is. till Friday of next week, and made the special gentlemen have been induced to go into the pub- Mr. SLOAN. It is to substitute for the secorder for that day, and from day to day until dis- lic employment upon the assurance and belief tion as it stands the following: posed of.

that they were to receive this additional compen- That a sufficient sum b: appropriated to pay all the cmThe motion to postpone was agreed to. sation, then it might all be well enough. But, ployés of the Government, in the civil and military service, in fact, such is not the case.

twenty per cent., in addition to the pay they are now reDEFICIENCY BILL. On the other hand it is not to be presumed-I

ceiving Mr. STEVENS. I now ask leave to report do not care what precedents may be referred to, The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from from the Committee of Ways and Means a defi- it cannot be presumed that any intelligent citizen Pennsylvania yield for the purpose of allowing ciency bill, for the purpose of starting it here and believes that this House, by its own act, can in- the amendment to be offered? have it go to the Senate,

crcase by twenty per cent., or any other per cent., Mr.STEVENS. I suppose the gentleman from The bill was read a first and second time.

the salaries and compensation of public officers. Wisconsin (Mr.Sloan) is in fun. (Laughter.] Mr. STEVENS. I ask that this will be con

I regret that the subject of such an amendment Mr. SLOAN. I am not in fun. I think my sidered in the House, and at this time.

as this, involving a principle like this, should be proposition is no more than just. Mr. HOLMAN. I shall not object, provided deemed of so much importance on the part of the Mr. STEVENS. I decline to yield, and I the bill is considered, subject to the same rules || House. Gentlemen do not seem to consider that move that the debate now close. and the same points of order as in Committee of thé employés of this House, gentlemanly as they Mr. HOLMAN. I submit that, if this bill is the Whole.

are and as I have always asserted them to be, to be considered as in Committee of the Whole, No objection being made, it was ordered accord

who have performed their duties faithfully and as the House has ordered, the gentleman cannot ingly.

well so far as my experience has extended, are call the previous question, or move to close deMr. STEVENS. I think the House will dis- extremely well paid, it seems to me, in compari- bale while any gentleman has an amendment to pense with the reading of this bill at length after son with other employés of the Governmeni. offer. That is ihe principle universally applied I have stated what it is. It is precisely the bill Let me mention a single case by way of illustra- in Committee of the Whole. which the House agreed to, including the amend- tion. One gentleman, connected with this House The SPEAKER. The gentleman is familiar ments of the Senate for the California and Den- as a committee clerks, who during this session will with the rules, and knows that the committee ver mints, &c.; all that we agreed to, except the perform service for the period of three months, rises and goes into the House io close debate. clause in relation to the Housc employés. I have who is not required to reinain here an hour after Mr. HOLMAN. That cannot be done while put that matter in such shape that it will not, I ibe expiration of we three months, will receive an amendment is pending.

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