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80 far, and I think the sub-committee went so far can say—and I think I shall be justified in say- || selves, not upon the testimony of individuals, but as to satisfy them entirely, and to satisfy the Com- || ing it from the committee, and be borne out in it of their own eyes as far as they could, and by mittee on Finance that it was unwise to make this by the conclusions of the individual members of their own examination, having spent considerable limitation, and to prevent any further experimente | the committee that I have never been in an es- time in the Treasury Department. ing on this system. It is well known that there tablishment where the securities seemed so great Mr. GRIMES. As the Senator has given a has grown up a division in the Treasury De- as in that Department.

great deal of attention to this subject, I should partment, and in the country, in regard to print- One of the first requisites was--and this will like a little information that he has not given us. ing paper for the Government It is printed now bear more upon the other point (I mean the ac- About a year ago we had a large amount of fracin the Treasury Department by two methods. It counts of Dr. Gwynne) than upon this particular | tional currency, of the denominations that he has is printed by the hydrostatic method of printing proviso—the production of a paper in the Treas- | exhibited to the Senate, printed upon a paper that and by the old method of the hand press. Those ury Department that should be entirely distinct- was in the habit of splitting. I desire to know who have been used to the hand press still adhereive from any other paper. You can go into the whether or not that was printed by the hydroto it; and you may go down into the Treasury || book-stores here on your streets and buy the static process, and whether that paper was or was Department to-day and find the old spoke-wheel ordinary bank-note paper; you can go down to not manufactured by Mr. Gwynne. press, where a man turns it around with his hand | Hudson Taylor's and buy bank-note paper; you Mr. CLARK. I do not understand that they and uses his foot to help him along, which has can buy the bank-note paper on which some of used the paper manufactured by Dr. Gwynne. 'I been in use forty years in printing bills. When your currency has been printed, because there cannot speak, however, on that point with that I asked the man who stood at that printing press has not been enough produced in the Treasury certainty that I can in regard to some other things. the other day how it happened that ihey used that Department for the production of all your cur- I know there was complaint of a paper that did old press which has been in use for forty years, rency. It is very desirable to preveni counter- split. I know that was one of the complaints when in almost every other branch of machinery feiting and to produce a paper that cannot be made in the reports on this matter. improvements had been made, all he could say to photographed. I have in my pocket and will Mr. GRIMĖS. There was laid on our desks, me was: “I do not know, sir; I have been a exhibit to the Senate-they will see nothing par- | yesterday, a book that purported to be a report printer thirty years and I have used it all the time; ticular about it at any distance-a piece of paper from Mr. Clark, the gentleman who has charge and I suppose it is because the old fogies like it." produced in the Treasury Department, [exhib: | of the printing in the Treasury Department. I That was the man who stood at the press; but I iting one of the denominations of the fractional do not know how it got here, or how it came to do not propose to enter into that diversity of opin- || currency of the latest issue.). It has the appear. be published; it has no imprint of any publishing ion or quarrel. The committee examined the ance of being rather coarse, but the bit of paper establishment on its face. It does not bear the method of printing by the hydrostatic process, which I now hold in my hand has been washed, || appearance of having been sent here by the Secand came io the conclusion that it was by no has been dipped in a tumbler, thoroughly wetted retary of the Treasury, to whom it is addressed, means wise to prohibit the experiment.

and soaked, and then washed with soap, and but I take it as the genuine report of this gentleOne design of the hydrostatic printing is to pre- rubbed as hard as you would rub an ordinary man. If I am not mistaken, his report states that vent the wetting of the paper as you have to do piece of cloth, and yet it cannot be destroyed; 1) that split paper was the product of one of these ex. by the hand press, and drying it, and shrinking and one peculiarity of this paper is that it can- | periments of Mr. Gwynne; and the purpose I had it by the process of wetting and drying. When not be by any process of wetting returned to in making the inquiry of the Senator from New the paper is wetted and dried it dries unevenly, pulp again. But it has another advantage beyond | Hampshire was io ascertain if he could tell us and pulls the plates by shrinking unevenly, and inis: there is mixed with the pulp that produces | how much that experiment cost the Government. thus the lines get out of form. It became very the paper a chemical preparation, a fibrous prep- Mr. CLARK. 'I have no information on that desirable, therefore, that there should be a method aration which you can hardly notice by looking | subject. I do not know that that was an experiof printing the paper without welling it. This is at it, but which photographs black when an at. accomplished by the hydrostatic process. The tempt is made to photograph it, so that it can be Mr. GRIMES. I should like to know how paper is laid on the plate dry, receives the im- detected at once. One great design and desire of much these various experiments that have been pression, and comes out precisely as it went into the Department is to prevent the counterfeiting of made with the hydrostatic presses have cost the the press as to form. The advantage gained in your currency.

Government. Is the committee prepared to in- that particular is in several ways. In the first Mr. GRIMES. Will the Senator tell me how form the Senate how much these various presses place, you avoid the expense of wetting it down; much of the currency has been printed on that have cost, how many have been broken down, then you avoid the expense of drying it; and paper?

how much has been expended for repairs ? then you avoid the expense of pressing by power

Mr. CLARK. I cannot from any figures that Mr. SHERMAN. I can tell the Senator prepresses as you always have to do paper which I have.

cisely. The contract, which I have here among has been wetted and printed. But there is an- Mr. HENDERSON. Very little of it.

these papers, was $1,100 for each press. Sevother great advantage in that regard, that when Mr. CLARK. Not a very large amount. enty presses were delivered. The amount spent the paper has been printed it comes out in sheets. Mr. GRIMES. Does it exceed $400,000? for repairs was comparatively a small item. All Take a sheet on which you have printed the frac- Mr. CLARK. I cannot tell.

the particulars of the claim are here. The total tional currency, upon which there may be sixteen Mr.JOHNSON. Are they going on to use that amount for the presses was $77,000, together or eighteen different bills. The old method, when kind of paper?

with some expenses for repairs. it was printed by hand, was to take your shears Mr. CLARK. They are. It is particularly Mr. GRIMES. How many of them have been and trim that all around, and then cut them all desirable for the currency. The committee ex- abandoned as incapable of being repaired? How apart, because you were obliged to follow the amined so far as to see that these experiments many of them are lying in a pile outside of the lines as they had altered in shrinking: You can were very valuable to the Government.

Treasury? take now a sheet, printed by the hydrostatic Mr. COLLAMER. That paper has nothing Mr. SHERMAN. I have no information, exmethod, put it into a machine; it goes through to do with the hydrostatic printing.

cept from the reports before me. The difficulty almost immediately, and comes out ail cut up and Mr. CLARK. The Senator will remember with some of them was that the frame-work was laid into a little hopper by itself; and the machine that I said this bore more particularly upon the 100 weak to bear the enormous pressure caused is so perfect that, when you have run through a Dr. Gwynne part of the case than upon the ques- | by the system. That was the result of a dispute certain amount of sheets of a given denomination, tion of striking out the proviso; but ihis is clearly as to whether wrought iron or cast iron would Bay ten dollars of currency, when ten dollars of connected with the other experiments that have resist the greater pressure. Since the change has that currency is laid in the hopper, the machine been going on, and tends to show somewhat the been made to the present machines they are peritself rings a bell and notifies you that you have value of the experiments. I think that the ex- fectly satisfactory. The only change is in refergot just ten dollars in that place. So of the bills periments now going on in the Treasury Depart- ence to the form. As I am not a machinist, and for the banks; they are all' trimmed in the same ment are only a repetition of what has occurred do not understand printing or anything about it, way whenever printed by the hydrostatic method. in the world before, and what will probably occur I may be mistaken in regard to this; but the cost

The experiment has gone along so far that the many times again, so often as you have improve- || of repairing has been comparatively very slight. committee would not be warranted, and I do not menis in machinery that aid in the process of Mr. CLARK. I desire to make one state think the Secretary of the Treasury would be manufacture.

ment further in regard to the capacity of these warranted-and he does not desire nor does he Here are two systems; here is the machinery | presses. By a hand press two persone will print think it advisable-lo stop that method of printing, for the hydrostatic system of printing, which is in a day from about seven hundred to eight hunbut to go on with it to perfection. I am so well in operation. I ask Senators if it is wise to limit dred impressions. By a hydrostatic press, if a satisfied with it by my examination and from the the appropriation so that further developments man could ink fast enough, you could have four acquaintance I have with machinery as to be able of this system cannot be made, so that further thousand impressions; but ordinarily, the perto say that I have full confidence that it is to be experiments cannot be had to ascertain the value son who inks the plate cannot stand any such

of any improvement that may be made. Is it || labor, and they get through about two thousand I desire the Senate to understand that in making wise to shut right down upon the system here impressions a day, and those impressions are these remarks I have no allusion to the character and say we will have no further experiment in paid for by the piece. They pay for impressions of, or what may have been said about, any em- this matter? That is not the opinion of the sub- on the hand press a dollar for one hundred imployé in the Treasury Department.

committee; that is not the opinion of the Finance | pressions. On the hydrostatic press they pay a. The committee examined further than the mere Committee; that is not the opinion of the Secre- dollar for the first four hundred, and then sevmachinery and hydrostatic printing: They exam- tary of the Treasury; it is not, I think, the opinion | enty cents a hundred for the remainder of a day's ined the system that is carried on there in regard of anybody who has examined the matter to see work, bringing the whole cost about seventyto the safe-keeping of the money, and I think what is the advantage of this system. I know five cents to the hundred; that is three fourths of they would like to examine further on that point; there are persons who are opposed to it. I know the cost upon a hand press. I was satisfied that not because they do not find all the proper secu- there are persons who come lo us to give us in- the fact was so as the prices are now, There is rities so far as they have gone, but to make the formation on the subject, but the bias of those no question that when this method of. priating research more extended, more critical, and more gentlemen could easily be detected on examina- first came to be attempted, the printing went on satisfactory that it is safe for the Government. I tion. The committee attempted to satisfy them- ll slowly, as is the case with all new kinds of busi

a success.

ness; but it has been brought to a very great then it has to go into the drying room and passed other. I examined the books in the Department. degree of perfection, and I think if gentlemen through under a new set of men; and then it has I ran over the books showing the rapidity of work would take the trouble to go and see for them- to go, after the impression is put upon the other for a great many days. The liydrostatic or dry selves, especially if they have any idea of me- side, into the trimming room, as the Senator from system of printing and the wet system of printchanics and machinery

New Hampshire has described to you, and being are kept in separate rooms; the books are Mr. COLLAMER. When the work is done, || trimmed. If printed on the hydrostatic press, it kept separately and distinctly. Texamined them, how is the impression: Will it rub off, or is it does not go to the welting room, it does not go to and my understanding is that they average about good?

the drying room, it does not go to the trimming eight or nine hundred sheets per day upon the Mr. CLARK. There has been a great deal room. There are three sets of hands, there are old presses, and about five, six, and seven hun. of complaint made that the work done by the three classes of laborers who handle the money dred upon the hydrostatic presses; not exceed. hydrostatic press was not so goud as that done printed on one of the presses that do not touch ing that. I am not prepared to say that I would by the ordinary press. I am not a printer; but it when printed on the other. I think that ne- condemn them as being less economical on that I took the impressions, and I took a microscope cessarily furnishes some additional security to the account, because there are other things to be to examine them, and, in my judgment, the work Government, or if it does not furnish additional taken into consideration which have been alluded done by the hydrostatic press is full as good as security it saves some of the risk to which the to by the Senator. It takes three persons to run that done by the ordinary power press. The Government is liable in the printing of this paper, one of these hydrostatic presses and to produce an Senator from Vermont inquires if it rubs off. He Now, as to the economy of the two methods, I || impression, and yet those three persons cannot will see that that is not so from the exhibition of cannot testify on that point with so much pos- || produce as many impressions during the day as this bill which I have already presented to the itiveness as ihe Senator from New Hampshire ihe old wet press. Tam perfectly satisfied of that. Senate, which has been rubbed, soaked, and has done. The result of my examination is that, I have no prejudices against the hydrostatic washed in soap and water, and the impression so far, it has been proved the hands have printed || printing; I intend to support this amendment; I has not started a particle. I say I have not ex- more sheets in the day on the old press than on am not prepared to say either that further experiamined this matter so far as I desire to do, as a the hydrostatic press. Nevertheless we stood ments ought not to be made in this thing; but I matter of curiosity and knowledge, even.

there and saw both presses al work, and it is true, am prepared to say that a vast amount of money Mr. COLLAMER. The question is, will it as is said by the Senator from New Hampshire, has been expended in the Treasury without any endure?

that on the hydrostatic press sheets may be compensating benefits that I can see so far. They Mr. CLARK. The gentleman can tell by ex. thrown off just as rapidly as one man can put on may be there, and something may be produced in amination as well as I can. I understand it wears the ink. While thai press is at work, one man the future that will triumph over many of the aunirably well.

has as much as he can do to ink the plates, l difficulties that I see in thai Department now. I Mr. GRIMES. How long is it since that kind whereas on the other press, on the old press, the am not prepared to say that when this distinctive of paper has been used?

same man not only inks the plates but passes them paper-a matter that I did not attempt to look into Mr. CLARK. I cannot tell how much of it through the press. My own judgment was that shall have been produced in the Treasury Dehas been used or how long.

put it to the test

a plate would pass through that press in about partment, a system of printing may not be adopted that I have stated. I could not try it as the old the time it would through the new press. Some upon these hydrostatic presses that will prevent man said he had tried his locust posts. He said members of the committee, I believe, differed with counterfeiting in all future time. That would they would last forever, for he had tried them out me on that. I do not know but that the Senator certainly be a very great item to be taken into and out. But so far as I have been able to put from New Hampshire thought it would pass consideration in the examination of a question of this to the test, it wears admirably well. I do through the new press in less time than through this sort. not think it is quite wise for the Senate to stop the old press. Tihought it took about the same Mr. COLLAMER. I will ask the Senator these experiments. I think they should go fur- time.

whether, when we have that sort of paper, we ther.

There is another fact, that two hands are em- have not the same security in either form of Mr. GRIMES. Then I understand the Sena- ployed upon the old press, and three hands are printing Ir to admit that this system has not reached that employed upon the new press; and there is but Mr. HENDERSON. That is one of the points digree of perfection which he expects it will attain. one experienced workman employed on either of lhat Mr. Clark urged upon us when we were exKr. CLARK. Certainly I do; and I will ad

the presses.

To the amount of labor expended amining this subject; but really I am not premi: it as to everything else in the world, even as in actually printing a thousand sheets on ihe old pared to say that the distinctive paper may not u mankind. I hope we have not yet got to that press must be added the amount oflabor expended be printed upon either press. degree of perfection which we expect to reach. I in wetting the sheets, in drying them, and in Mr. CLARK. Undoubtedly. will admit it in regard to the Senator's iron-clads. trimming them, so that about the same amount Mr. HENDERSON. I know it can be; but I | Laughter.], It is the very reason I want to go of labor probably is actually expended in getting was about to remark, I am not prepared to say it Turther. I do not want to stop here.

at a thousand sheets of currency on one press as can be printed upon either press and yet avoid on the other.

counterfeiting. In the hydrostatic system of more need be said on this point; but I was one My own judgment is that the experimentis not printing the object to be attained is simply this: of the sub-committee who were instructed by the complete. The Senator from Vermont says that to procure power enough to force the ink into dry Finance Committee to look into this matter some- a vast amount of money has been expended. It paper. In the other system the paper is made what, and I desire to say in reply to some in- is true; but though I profess to have no sort of moist. It does not require much force to put the quiries originated here by ihe Senator from lowa, || intimate acquaintance with mechanics of any ink in the paper in this moist condition. It is chat we were not instructed to investigate the past | kind, it seems to me so manifest that a press which forced into it with much less trouble. I am not operations of the Currency Bureau, or of ihat will keep one hand employed all the time in ink- || sufficiently acquainted with matters of this sort branch of the Treasury Department. Our inves- | ing, must, when made to work perfectly, print to pass any judgment as to the superiority of one tigations were directed to the particular matter re- more economically than a press which requires or ihe other of ihe systems. The press ihat will ferred to in the proviso now proposed to be struck the same man who puts on the ink to run the Turn off nine hundred sheets a day, that is the out. The House of Representatives had voted | plates through the press, that in consideration of old press, or the system of printing with the to prohibit any further experiments upon this new ihe large amount of money we have already ex- paper moistened, costs $125;' the hydrostatic method of printing our currency, and we were in- pended, I think it is not judicious to prohibit the press will cost $1,100. Ii has to be made very structed to look into the matter, make up our Secretary of the Treasury from making further strong, because the water pressure that is thrown minds whether it was advisable to prohibit fur- | experiments in the same direction. Therefore I upon the machinery is estimated, I believe, at ther experiments or not, and our investigations acquiesced with my colleagues on the sub-com- forty tons. I will ask the Senator from New

-re directed therefore to two methods now in mitice and on the Finance Committee in the pro- Hampshire if that is not so. v.gue in that bureau of printing this paper. The priety of striking out this proviso.

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir. two methods have been described to you by the Mr. HENDERSON. I do not know that it is Mr. HENDERSON. You can put, of course, Senator from New Hampshire. So far as my own necessary for me to say anything, but I was one any weight you desire upon it. There is no trouble examination went, it was directed mainly with a of the committee who visited the Treasury Depart. about obtaining any amount of force that you How of determining in my own mind which of ment in order to examine these two modes of wish to apply; it can be easily obtained. But we two methods was the most economical, and printing; and my impression is that our exami- whether this ink can be forced into the dry paper which was the safest, which furnished the best nation was hardly sufficient to enable us to pass so as to make it stay there is a question that I security to the Government. Unquestionably an opinion that, the Senate can rely upon in ref- really did have some doubis about. I know that there is great danger of loss, let this vast amount erence to these two modes of printing. The Mr. Clark, who is the superintendent of this Deof paper be printed where it will. I was satisfied hydrostatic system of printing has been adopted partment, insists that there is no doubt about it oqi ally with the Senator from New Hampshire | there, as I understand, for the purpose of giving at all, and I know it is the belief of both the diswho has just testified upon that point that every us a bill that cannot be photographed or counter- tinguished gentlemen who have recently been at security was thrown about this branch of your feited. How far that has been accomplished by the head of the Treasury Department that it is a service that I could conceive was practicable by this system of printing, I am unable to say; I really success, and therefore I am noi prepared, from the either method of printing.

cannot tell. I cannot say that the one cannot be examination I have made, to say that it should It will be manifest to the judgment of every one as easily counterfeited as the other. There is be entirely discarded. that the more hands this paper is passed through this thing most assuredly about it, that the ma- But, sir, while I am up I desire to say a word the greater is the danger of loss. By printing on chinery necessary for the hydrostatic printing or two in reference to a matter that I do really the hydrostatic press, it will pass through at least costs cight, ien, fifteen, or twenty times as much have a very great deal to complain of. It seems the hands of three less sets of hands than when as the machinery necessary for the other printing. that these gentlemen, Mr. Clark and Mr. Gwynne, printed on the old press. If printed on the old I differ with my friend, the Senator from New have been making these experiments in the Treasprees it has to go, when the impression is placed Hampshire, about the rapidity of this printing. ury Department. Perhaps the experiments were on one side, first into the weiting room, and a Although I am not prepared io say thai the by- || all necessary. I do noi know what may be acclass of laborers are employed in the wetting drostatic printing ought to be rejected, I cannot complished by them. Perhaps we may arrive at room; then the impression is laid upon one side, say that it is aa rapid a mode of prinimg as the a perfection in the system of printing by these

say that

experiments that nobody else would find out, and One of the members of the sub-committee, who I had no time to examine into this thing; in fact if so, the Government would save a great deal of examined this printing with me, has remarked it would take many days to do it; and I was not money. The Senate can judge of ihat just as that he saw nothing whatever in the examination sent there for that purpose, but for the other purwell as I can; and they would not be any wiser to show otherwise than that there was perfect pose of examining merely, as I understood, imio after they had gone there and examined it. The security in the production of these sheets. The the two different modes of printing, and whether hydrostatic system is the most expensive one in Senator remarked, also, that at any paper store it was justifiable on the part of the Secretary to the machinery; and I do not see, taking everything in town the paper might be purchased upon which continue these experiments in printing. I turned into consideration, that there is a great deal of this money is printed.

my attention mostly to that. The other matters difference in the handling of the paper after the Mr. CLARK. I said at Philp & Solomon's. came up incidentally, and I mention them inciimpressions are produced, or in the production Mr. HENDERSON. Well, at Philp & Solo- | dentally here. I think there ought to be some ot ve impressions. As the Senator from New mon's, or at any other paper store. I think, from legislation on the part of Congress in reference to Hampshire very properly says, in the wet sys- my examination, that one of the greatest advan. this subject. tem you have got io dry the paper iwice, and then tages to be derived from the experiments that Much' has been said in the country against Mr. it has to be again pressed, in order to straighten have been carried on in the Treasury Department Clark. I saw nothing prejudicial to him in my it out, and then you have to trim it; but the Sen- will be in the production of a distinctive paper. examination; but I desire to state here, and I will ator forgets one thing that he might have men. If that distinctive paper can be produced, it will state it while upon the subject, that Mr. Clark tioned; and that is, that in the hydrostatic sys- be worth all the experiments that have been made. has alınost entire and perfect control of all the tem of printing the paper has to be trimmed There is no doubt about that. I do not know vast machinery of prirting these notes and bonds also. Ti is trimmed before it is printed, and not whether they will be able to secure it or not. I for the Government. He is the soul of the whole afterward,

care not what the printing may be in the future; thing. His word is law in the whole department. Mr. CLARK. It is trimmed by machinery. whether it be the dry printing or the moist print

Mr. HOWE. Oh, no. Mr. HENDERSON. Both of them can be ing, it is certainly desirable that a distinctive pa- Mr. HENDERSON. In this department of trimmed by machinery, and both of them were per should be produced; and I, for one, would be printing. I apprehend that if Mr. Clark were to trimmed by machinery. There is no doubt of willing to see money appropriated for the purpose ask that forty or fifty sheets of money be printed that. of producing that paper.

upon either system, or forty or fifty bonds be I was going to remark that there have been But, Air. President, I am not so well satisfied printed and turned over to him, there is not an expended in the Treasury at least $300,000 in that upon another subject that has been alluded io, employé in that department that would object to machinery. How far a large portion of it may and that is, the perfect security of the Govern- it, or that could object to it. I understand from have been necessary under any given state of cir- ment in the printing of these notes and bonds. clerks of that department that such has been the cumstances I cannot say; but one thing is certain, So far as my examination went, I saw nothing case; that he has asked these things to be done; that these parties, after experimenting with the in the manner in which this department is being and it is necessary at times that they should be Government money, have gone and taken out conducted to show any design whatever on the done. I do not mention the fact for the purpose patents in the Patent Office for four of these ma- part of Mr. Clark to do otherwise than what was of creating any suspicion against Mr. Clark. I chines, or for four improvements.

right; I saw no disposition manifested on his part | desire to do no such thing I understand that Mr. SHERMAN.' The Senator will remem- that would indicate that he desired in any manner two thousand five hundred millions of money have ber, and it is due to these men to say, that they whatever to take any advantage of the Govern- been printed upon these presses, and I have never presented any claim to the United ment; but I supposed the Senators who were no one man ought to have entire control of a deStales for this patent; that they themselves pro- with me in that examination came to this conclu- partment of this character. I know there are pose to surrender any such claim. Indeed, this sion, that if Mr. Clark so desired, serious loss checks; but what checks are there? They are amendment provides that they shall surrender could be entailed upon the Government through such checks as Mr. Clark himself has established. any such claini. If other parties outside of the his management there. When the paper upon I do not understand that the Secretary of the Government of the Uniled States desire to use this which all our bonds and notes are printed is Treasury has ever prescribed a single check over machinery, they claim the patent right.

brought into the Treasury Department, it first him. If so, where is it? Where did you find it? Mr. HÉNDERSON. Then we take the bene- goes into the hands of Mr. Clark. It is true that As I understood from Mr. Clark himself, he said fit of it so far as we are concerned; but, as the recently some sort of a check has been devised that this paper check was all nonsense; that it Senator from lowa very properly said, whenever in having a paper department; but, as I under- was no check upon him. He said, "I can go lo machinery fails there and is cast aside, whose stand, all' this paper first falls into Mr. Clark's Philp & Solomon's and buy as much paper as I loss is it? The Government loses it. These parties hands, and the paper department never gets the desire to purchase, and come back here and have have gone on and they have tried machine afler control of the paper, except through his hands. it printed by corrupting three or four different inmachine, and whenever a machine fails the loss It first goes to him, and it is turned over by him dividuals in this department." He is perfectly falls upon the Government. I object to the modus to this paper department, and the paper depart- frank on that subject. I say this vast power operandi of getting up this machinery and of ex- ment turns it back again to him upon his order. ought not to be intrusted to one, two, three, or perimenting. A large sum of money has been I know the Secretary of the Treasury has pro- four different individuals; but there ought to be expended in that way. Whether the benefits vided that a mark be put upon the paper before a system of checks provided, not by Mr. Clark, already derived, or hereafter to be derived, are it is delivered to Mr. Clark; but the Senator from but by the Secretary of the Treasury, over this sufficient to compensate the Government for this New Hampshire will bear me witness that Mr. whole matter. It is a subject of exceeding imloss, is another question. The Senate can judge Clark himself said that he did not regard the mark portance to the nation, in my judgment. I merely of that just as well as I can. But I wish merely upon it as any protection whatever against wrong, allude to it now, from the little examination I to state that these patents have been obtained, and the gentleman who has charge of the paper have made, in order that the Senate may, at the and although the amendment

department admitted that there was no sufficient proper time, take the subject into consideration. Mr. GRIMES. Who owns these patents? protection of the Government, and that he was Mr. HENDRICKS obtained the floor.

Mr. HENDERSON. They do; Stewart attempting to perfect the system so as to have a Mr. CLARK. I do not desire to protract this Gwynne and Clark. Some of them are owned by complete check upon it. The very mark that is debate, but I cannot permit the statement of the them jointly, and others are owned by either the put upon the paper in this paper department is Senator from Missouri to go out unchallenged. one or the other. I think one is taken out in taken off the paper before it is printed, or at the The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator Clark's name, one in Clark & Gwynne's name, time it is printed, and it is cut off before the notes from Indiana was recognized by the Chair. and the other perhaps in Gwynne's name alone. go out; so that there is no mark left upon it at Mr. HENDRICKS. If the Senator wants to I know it is said by Senators that if this amend- i all.

speak now, I have no objection to giving way. I ment be adopted the Government will have the I must say, from my examination into this merely wanted to move that the Senate take a use of this machinery. I admit that fact; but do matter-although I saw no evidence of a dispo- recess until half past seven o'clock. ["Oh, no.") nol these parties hold that machinery against all sition on the part of anybody to defraud ihe This bill, I suppose, ought to be finished to-nighi, other parties in the world except the Government Government; although I saw in every department and we cannot do it unless we have an evening of the United States?

there an earnest desire apparently, and especially session. (“Oh, no.”] I withdraw the motion; I Mr. WILSON. What objection is there to so on the part of Mr. Clark himself, to give us all see Senators do not desire it. that?

the information we could possibly desire and that Mr. CLARK. I could not but feel, as the SenMr. HENDERSON. Why, sir, if the Gov- might be necessary to a correct understanding of ator from Missouri was making his remarks, alernment of the United States would furnish me this whole subject that that department is not though I have no doubt he intended them to be $300,000 to experiment upon and give me the ben- properly conducted; that there ought to be checks fair and to convey his impressions rightfully to efit of those experiments, I could make any amount ihere that do not exist there; that another system the Senate, that he was giving a very wrong imof money out of it; and so could any other me- ought to be adopted.

pression in some particulars in regard to the chanic. There is not a mechanic in the country I examined the books in the different depart- | method and manner and the security of printing that would not take up such an offer from the ments of this business. Most of the books are this paper money; and I hope the Senate will bear Government. There is no doubt that if you would kept by ladies. I suppose they are not experienced with me for a few minutes while I give them furnish any man with $300,000 to make experi- | book-keepers. I doubt whether any examination somewhat in detail the method in which this paper ments, and let him experiment for four or five has ever been made of the books by the heads of money is printed. years, and then allow him to patent the machinery the different departments; and I doubt whether It is true that the invoice of the paper which after it has been perfected and matured, leaving there is lo-day a single book-keeper that knows comes from abroad is made to Mr. Clark, or it the Government to lose all the machinery that has anything about the other books of the office. I comes into his possession. Then it goes from been defective, he certainly could do well out of have never seen any report here; but I doubt ex- him to the counting or paper clerk, as he is callel, it. That is a very serious objection, and Sena- ceedingly whether, upon a correct examination of He makes an examination of all the paper, and tors will see it at a glance.

those books from the beginning of this immense he stamps every sheet with these words, " TreasWhile I am upon this subject I desire to make work of printing the notes and bonds of the Gov- ury Department;" and he stamps every sheet in a remark upon another branch of it, because I do ernment in that establishment, they would per- such a way thai if you are printing two bonds not wish to trouble the Senate any more about it. fectly compare.

upon one sheet, upon each of these bonds will be


livering it to the bronzer and carrying it back, it | ter. "I'say there is a want of security in it. i

this stamp of " Treasury Department." He takes roller, laid upon one end, and a pressure brought that in making these impressions there are hunan account of it, and has it in his department; || upon it, and it is rolled over this plate; so that that dreds and hundreds of sheets that are returned in and that paper clerk is not under the control of roller takes the impression from the plate upon a damaged condition? Mr. Clark. When Mr. Clark makes a requisition the roller itself, that roller being softened. Then Mr. CLARK. Not that many. upon the paper clerk for paper, he answers the || after it is upon the roller, the roller is hardened, Mr. HENDERSON. Well, say six or seven requisition, delivers him the paper, and charges so as to be made as hard as the workman can sheets with one workman during the day. They it io him upon his books; and those books in that make it, and from that roller, rolled upon plates are working a great many wet presses there; some departmeni, as I said before, are not under the one after another, you can get as many impres- one hundred and fifty or two hundred I suppose; control of Mr. Clark; and the paper clerk can tell sions of that plate, almost, as you please. Now, and they are working a large number of hydroat any time how much paper he has delivered to some of these engravings were made in New York, static presses. A great number of those impreshim stamped in this way.

and some of those rollers were made in New York, sions are badly made. Take the case of a newsThen it goes from the paper clerk to the count.. ) and a controversy arose between the Secretary of paper. It is not every impression that is a good ing clerk; and the counting clerk is under the di- the Treasury and the engravers in New York, who | one. Those upon which bad impressions are rection and control of Mr. Clark. She takes the should have these rolls to keep, and have charge made are cast aside. If a workman during the paper and has it counted twice by two individu- of them. The bank-note companies refused to let day loses eight or ten out of his nine hundred, als. If they are found to agree, she enters upon him have them; and they have got these rolls to- he only accounts for the good impressions. Now the book the amount that she got from the paper day, and can take as many impressions as they | I ask, may not a workman return at night eight clerk. If they are not found to agree, she at choose. You rely upon their honesty, and I dare or nine bad impressions of $1,000 bonds? once notifies the paper clerk of the discrepancy say they may be perfectly honest people. I only Mr. HOWE. My friend will allow me to ask there is in the paper, and the account is ascer- mention it to show that these rollers are out of the him if each one of those workmen who takes postained and made riglit.

control of the Government; whereas if your work session of any portion of this paper does not acThen the counting clerk delivers it to the next is done here the rollers are all kept here, and they count for each sheet of the paper? person who has to handle it; and that is the man are kept under the direction of men beyond the Mr. HENDERSON. If the Senator will wait who bronzes it, or puts on the bronze figures. || control of Mr. Clark. I mention this to show the a moment I will explain that. The man requiring the paper to bronze makes necessity of this work being under the control of Mr. CONNESS." I yielded to the Senator from a requisition on the counting clerk for so many the Government.

Missouri because I did not think he would occupy sheeis, say a thousand sheets. She counts it out Mr. CONNESS obtained the floor.

a great deal of time; but if he is going to discuss to him, and charges it to him. He takes it, and Mr. HENDERSON. I desire to make one the question at length I must claim the floor. goes into his department, and there he counts it remark, if the Senator pleases, while this subject Mr. HENDERSON. I am not going to disto see if itis right. If it is right, he enters upon is fresh in my mind.

cuss it at length. If the Senator had not interhis book that he has received so many sheets Mr. CONNESS. I yield.

rupted me he would have seen what I was driving from the counting clerk. If it is not righi, he then Mr. HENDERSON. The Senator from New I know the workmen have to account for the notifies the accounting clerk that it is not right, || Hampshire certainly misunderstood me if he un- bad sheets; they have to return them; but I say and that mistake is corrected. The bronzer then derstood me to cast any reflection upon any officer that Mr. Clark may put into the hands of one puts the paper through his bronzing machine, in the Department.

single workman, if he chooses to do it, and get and when it is all bronzed it is counted again by Mr. CLARK. I did not understand the Sen- forty $1,000 notes printed, on paper that never the man bronzing it. If he finds he has exactly ator so, and did not mean to say so. What I did went into the paper clerk's hands at all. the number of sheets charged to him in the morn- say was that his remarks were calculated to give Mr. HOWE. *How so? ing for bronzing, he takes it back to the counting a wrong impression about the security there Mr. HENDERSON. The Senator will see in clerk and delivers the paper over to her, and then might be there.

an instant. It would only be necessary for him he is credited with so much paper. That makes Mr. HENDERSON. If there is a want of se- to corrupt one mao. He has only to corrupt one bis account correct. There, in the simple process curity in the Treasury Department in printing single individual in the Department; because there

is not a sufficient check on the paper department.

Mr. HOWE. I cannot assent to that propohas been counted four times.

undertake to say that if Mr. Clark were a dis- sition. Then after it goes back to the counting clerk, honest man he could take out of the Treasury Mr. GRIMES. Who appoints them ? and is needed to be delivered to some other per- Department every evening twenty-five, fifty, or Mr. HENDERSON. I do not know who apson for some other operation, say to the man who one hui Ired thousand dollars in bonds or any- points them. is going to make the first impression, so many thing of that sort that he desired. I say that that Mr. JOHNSON. I submit to my friend from sheets are counted out to him, and charged to him. can be done.

Missouri whether upon the question immediately He does his work, and finding it righi, carries it The Senator says he can get no paper unless it before the Senate the topics to which he is referback, and his account is correct. So it is with is stamped. What sort of a stamp is that? Why, ring are pertinent. every operation until the whole work is perfected, sir, I would not have observed it hardly if the Mr. HENDERSON. I am aware that this is and ihe last work to be done is to put on the seal. gentleman who is at the head of the paper de- out of order; but I desire to say a word or two in ll then comes back to the counting clerk; is there partment had not called my attention to ii. It is answer to the statement of my friend from New again counted; is delivered to the sealing clerk, a very small stamp just on the margin of the Hampshire, that I was mistaken on this subject. and then brought back and counted again. sheet. In making the impression it does not reach It is a matter of importance; and while this sub

In this operation sheets are destroyed some- the stamp, and in trimming the sheets afterward, ject is up, I think there is nothing improper in times. For instance, a sheet will be torn, and it the stamp is always cutoff. You cannot see that referring to a matter of such vast importance in is necessary to replace it. How is it done? Say stamp upon a bond or upon a Treasury nole. This order that the proper legislation may be had to a thousand sheets are counted out, and given to old paper clerk never sees it after it leaves him, provide checks that I do not perceive to be at presa clerk who has it in charge distinct from the and whether he has any settlement or not I do not ent in that Department. counting clerk, which are put in packages by know. I think he said he never had any settlement. Mr. CONNESS. When the question now bethemselves. When a sheet is wanted for the pur- I asked Mr. Clark himself, (and I believe the Sen- fore the Senate-whether the proposition of the pose of duplicating one which has been destroyed ator was present at the time,) “Is that any check House of Representatives discontinuing these one is taken out from the package, and this de- upon you?' He replied, “I can put thai stamp experiments in paper should be stricken out and stroyed or imperfect sheet is put right in its place, upon a thousand sheets in the course of a few we should insert in lieu thereof an authority to so that when every one of these sheets is used in hours; I can go and make a stamp, and put it on the Secretary of the Treasury to ascertain how this way, you have a thousand imperfect sheets the shcets as fast as I choose." I had that from much is due to the parties connected with furnishin their place brought in.

Mr. Clark himself, and I think it was stated in ing these machines spoken of, and that it may be I do not undertake to say that this operation the presence of the Senator from New Hamp- paid—was before the Finance Committee, they cannot be made more secure. I think it very likely shire. Any mechanic could make such a stamp; examined it with all the care that could possibly it can; because I think it can be improved, as and I look upon Mr. Clark as one of the finest be applied to it. In order that it might be exeverything else can; but I think the statement of mechanics in the country, perhaps superior to any amined with relation to the exact quality and kind the Senator from Missouri was calculated to con- I have ever seen. There is no difficulty in mak- of printing, a sub-committee was appointed, convey a wrong impression. It certainly conveyed | ing a stamp to compare with this stamp, and to sisting of the Senators who have addressed the a different impression from what I got. It un- make a similarimpression with this slamp. Even Senate to-day. With due respect to these Senators, doubledly conveyed truthfully the impression the if it were not so, it is subsequently cut off or taken with great deference to their judgment, and for Senator got: off, and it affords no check at all.

the examination they have made, I submit that But that is not precisely the point. The point The Senator talks about this paper clerk being it has not been so thorough, nor complete, as in is, whether these experiments should be continued a check. Where is he a check?' I asked Mr. | my opinion to authorize the expression of a defifurther; because this objection as to insecurity ap- Clark himself, “Do you receive the paper first nite opinion now; I mean as to the amount of plies to the printing of the paper, wet as well as dry; | from the paper makers? Is it shipped to you, checks necessary to be imposed, and as to the it applies to the whole system of printing in the or is it shipped to the paper clerk?" He told me manner in which the printing is carried on. As Treasury Department, and involves the important it was shipped to him and not to the clerk; that I understand, that sub-committee expects to conquestion of the work being done there or in New he turned it over himself to the clerk. Is he bound tinue their investigations and complete their reYork. I desire to state one thing to illustrate this to turn it all over? May he not keep fifty thou- searches, and then it will be for them to suggest method of printing in the Treasury Department sand sheets back? He can go and buy it. This what additional safeguards and checks may be or printing in New York.

is what I complained of. I say if he were a dis- adopted in connection with this printing, which The engraver takes a piece of steel plate, and honest man, and I do not pretend to say he is, is of so much importance. he engraves upon it the precise bill that he wants, he could abstract as much paper and as many But the question now directly before us has upon softened steel. Then that plate is hardened, bonds as he chose.

been passed upon by the Finance Committee, ex. made as hard as the workman can make it. Then The Senator says this paper is counted by dif- amined with all the care that they could apply to there is a liard piece of steel, what they call a ferent individuals. Does not the Senator know it, and I cannot see, upon a question of this kind,


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that the Senate can do better than to accept the The SPEAKER. The gentleman is mistaken

recommendation that that committee have made. so far as the practice of this House is concerned.
They have certainly been guided by the greatest The present occupant of the chair has been pres-
regard for the public interests. I hope, sir, that

from the Secretary of War transmiling, in com-
ent on two previous occasions when the presiden-
we shall come to a vote upon the proposition as
it is before the Senate, so that we may get through
tial vote was counted, and the form of proceeding pliance with a resolution of the llouse, the record

of the lale trial by court-martial of Major David has been in this respect the same as that read with the bill which the Senator from Ohio now from the Journal to-day

H. Hastings. has before us. We have all got business wait. Mr. PRUYN. In what way do the proceed

Mr. DAWES. I move that it be laid upon the ing, important to us, but we cannot get at it until | inga get upon our Journal?

table and ordered to be printed. we are relieved from the pressure, worse than a The SPEAKER. They are placed there by

Mr. BROOKS. What is the case, that we should hydrostatic pressure, from ihe Senator from Ohio, ll the Journal Clerk.

have all that mass of papers printed ? the chairman of the Committee on Finance. Mr. PRUYN. Let the Clerk read that portion

The SPEAKER. It is the case that has been Mr. WILSON. I move that the Senate pro- of the Journal which introduces the proceedings

referred to so frequently in debate upon the floor. ceed to the consideration of executive business. of the joint convention.

Mr. DAWES. The importance of the case deMr. CONNESS. Let us vole on this amend. The Clerk read, as follows:

mands that these papers should be printed in order ment. We are all ready now.

that the people may see them.
" The Senate altended in the Hall of the Honse.
Mr. GRIMES. No, we are not.
“The President of the Senate took the Speaker's clair,

Mr. COX. Is all of that large bundle to be
Mr. WILSON. I insist on my motion. as the Presiding Oilicer, in pursuance of the joint rule of the printed?

Mr. CONNESS. I do not wish to discuss now two Houses, the speaker being sented on liis left, and the The SPEAKER. The motion to lay on the
a malter that is irrelevant. When I said we were
Senators having taken the seats provided for them.

table is not debatable.

“The President of the Senate then proceeded, in the ready to vote the Senator from lowa said, “No, presence of the two llouses of Congress, lo open the cer

Mr. COX. Does not the motion to print go to we are not." I listen with great attention to the lificates of the electors of the several States," &c.

the Committee on Printing? Senator from Iowa when he discusses naval af.

Mr. PRUYN. That is clearly not parliament

The SPEAKER. It does not; only motions to fairs, and when he goes into the minutiæ of the subject, and feel that I am instructed when he

ary. I refer to it as a matter of parliamentary print extra copies go to that committee. practice. Our Journal Clerk undertakes to say

Mr. COX. . Is the motion divisible?
speaks; but I hope he will not continue the dis-

The SPEAKER. Il is.
what was done in the joint convention of the two
cussion of this proposition, and prevent us from Houses. That should be an announcement from

Mr. COX. Then I ask that it be divided.
voting on the subjeci. I hope we shall get a vole.
che Speaker to the House when the House re-

Mr. DAWES. On the question of printing, alEXECUTIVE SESSION. sumes jis session.

low me lo say that, although those documents are

voluminous, it is a precedent to the country. I The motion of Mr. Wilson was agreed to;

The SPEAKER. That would be at variance

want to know whether a man who stands conand the Senate proceeded w the consideration of

with the practice heretofore followed upon the executive business; and after some time spent

Journals of the House on such occasions. The victed of twenty-six forgeries is only to be sustherein the doors were reopened, and the Senate

Chair does not feel at liberty to order the change pended for a term from rank and pay.
proposed, but he will entertain a motion for the

The SPEAKER. The motion io lay on the
correction of the Journal.

table is not debatable.
Mr. PRUYN. It is only a question of parlia-

Mr. DA WES. I withdraw that motion; and mentary practice, as to the manner in which we

I desire to say one word in support of the motion THURSDAY, February 9, 1865. get these proceedings upon our Journal. I do

10 print. Al the end of six months this man goes The House met al twelve o'clock, m. Prayer not see how our Clerk can put them there, as he

back into the Army, with the record in the War by Rev. Mr. Gray. has done.

Department that he has been convicted by courtThe Journal of yesterday was read and approved. The SPEAKER. The joint rules for the guid

martial of twenty-six forgeries and the embezzleLEAVE OF ABSENCE. ance of both Houses require that the Vice Presi

ment of $26,000. Such is the record. Now, he may uent shall take the chair, and that the Clerks of

have been improperly convicted; the evidence Mr. J. C. ALLEN. I ask indefinite leave of the two Houses shall, with the tellers, take seats

may not have sustained the conviction. I know absence for my colleague, Mr. ROBINSON, who in front.

nothing at all about it; but he is either guilty or has been called away from his seat by indisposi- Mr. PRUYN. Those proceedings are not our

he is not guilty. If he is not guilty of those tion in his family. There being no objection, leave was granted. ll convention of the lwo Houses. proceedings; they are the proceedings of the joint charges, it seems to me the War Department ought

to have set aside the verdict, and ordered him to CORRECTION OF THE JOURNAL. The SPEAKER. The Journal has been made

be tried again, rather than have permitted the con

viction to remain, and aller the sentence to the Mr. PRUYN.' I desire to make an inquiry in up in strict accordance with the usage.

miserable adjudication that the amount of penalty regard to the minutes. I wish to know in what


which is to be affixed upon forgery and embezmanner the proceedings of the joint convention Mr. KASSON. I ask to take up and concur

zlement in this country is only a suspension of upon the Journal of this House. Mr.WASHBURNE, of Illinois. Mr. Speaker,

from the proceedings on the trial The SPEAKER. In pursuance of the law which provides that the proceedings of the joint I do not object if the morning hour has not com

that not only was this man convicted on these menced.

charges, but that he bired witnesses to absent convention shall be spread upon the Journals of The SPEAKER. The order of the House yes

themselves; that the witnesses testified upon the both Houses.

stand to his giving them three and five thousand Mr. PRUYN. I did not hear that part of the terday looked to the fact that there should be a Journal read, and I want to know in what manmorning hour, and when the regular order shall

dollars, and other sums, to absent ihemselves in be demanded the morning hour will commence,

Canada, out of reach of process. This case may ner those proceedings are introduced. Is it on and not before.

be all wrong, and he may have been convicted the report of the Speaker as to what took place? Mr. WASHBURNE; of Illinois. My purpose

upon insufficient or unreliable testimony; but if The SPEAKER. The uniform usage, followwill be subserved, then, by demanding the regular

that is so I want to know why the verdict was ing, as the Chair understands, the provision of order of business when I want the morning hour

not set aside; why the War Department did not the law, is that such proceedings shall be placed to commence?

say that he was improperly convicted. But while upon the Journals of both Houses; and of course that is done in each House under the direction of making a morning hour imperative, conference

The SPEAKER. By the order of the House,

the judgment stands in this way, with the finding

of guilty approved, with the penalty affixed to the Journal Clerk, who is responsible for the Journal,

reports and other privileged questions will have it, it appears that the judgment of the War DeMr. PRUYN. The parliamentary method of

to come in after the morning hour. The inten- partment is that a sufficient penalty for these tion was that there should be a morning hour.

enormous crimes is simply a suspension of rank stating the matter, according to the practice in

Mr. WASHBURNE, of lilinois. Thal, un

and pay for six calendar months.
other legislative bodies, would be that the Senate
doubtedly, was my understanding. The morning

It is a matter of money-making on his part; he
had met the House in joint convention, and that,
hour has not yet commenced ?

goes off with the $26,000 in his pocket, not being when the House resumed its session, the Speaker

The SPEAKER. It has not.

required to restore it, for such is the finding and reported that the joint convention had transacted

such the record left in the War Department. Now, certain business, stating that business. I do not ACTING ASSISTANT TREASURERS, ETC. as I have already said, I know not whether justly know how the proceedings of yesterday are in- Mr. KASSON, by unanimous consent, moved or unjustly, he stands convicted, but the War Détroduced in our Journal. I was not here when to take up House bill No. 689, to provide for Act.

partment seemed to be dissatisfied that the court the Cierk read that portion of the Journal. ing Assistant Treasurers or depositaries of the

which convicted him should sentence him to a The SPEAKER. The Chair will examine the United States in certain cases.

penalıy which seems to me to be a proper one matter during the day, referring to the law or The motion was agreed to.

for so enormous a crime. The sentence of the rule on the subject. Mr. PRUYŇ. I think that this is a question

The amendment of the Senate was to insert

court-martial was that he should pay a fine of of parliamentary practice, in regard to which our the words,“ with the approval of the Secretary of $5,000, be confined two years, should restore the Journal should be right if it is wrong. the Treasury.”

$26,000 that he had embezzled, and should con

iinue in confinement until he had paid the fine The SPEAKER. The present understanding

Mr. KASSON moved to concur in the amend.

and restored the $26,000, if the confinement did of the Chair is that the rule or law makes it im

notexceed five years. That seems to me a punperative that the proceedings shall be placed upon

The amendment was concurred in.

ishment in some measure adequate, but the War the Journals of both Houses.

Mr. KASSON moved to reconsider the vote by Department, without setting aside ihe verdict of Mr. PRUYN. I think that the practice has which the amendment was concurred in; and also guilty, set aside the sentence attached to that verbeen in other cases that, when the House has re- moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on dict of guilty, and substituted this paltry sentence sumed its session, the Speaker has reported what the table.

of suspension of pay and reduction of rank for has laken place in the joint meeting.

The latter motion was agreed to.

six calendar months. He goes back into the

upoheche soleneseorang terdausbave been brought || in an amendment of the Senate to a House bill pay anderank for six cael oproe en ontb 8.

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