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Mr. BOND replied that he would now make a few words answer his purpose. My colleague did not use the language, nor express himself, as it is now published. If he had, sir, I would have then noticed it. But I have to say to him that he has consented to the publication of a garbled account of that debate.

Mr. MEDILL inquired if his colleague was now through.

Mr. BOND said he was.

that

Mr. MEDILL said that his colleague had requested a distinct and categorical answer, and had received one. He would not be drawn into immaterial issues dependent on either the recollection of himself or his colleague after the lapse of a week. Although he had not suffered as much as others during the short time he had been on this floor, he was opposed to the practice that was obtaining of denouncing the reporters whenever we do not feel satisfied with the appearance of our own remarks. It is not expected that every word is uttered in debate, should be set down and reported. It is enough that the substance is fairly and impartially given. My colleague is wholly mistaken, in supposing he did not attack the personal character and veracity of the editors of the Statesman. It was not until after he did so, that I rose. All must recollect the astonishment he affected, on finding any one who entertained the slightest confidence in their honor or veracity. My colleague is equally unfortunate in his recollection of the manner in which allusion was made to the county of Muskingum. So far from introducing it as an evidence of the correctness of the article in the Statesman, I admitted that I had seen the statement in relation to that county contradicted, and subsequently explained by the Statesman. Thus can my colleague fall into error, as well as the Reporters. In relation to the "account of that debate," I have nothing to do; and, in conclusion, will only add, that my own remarks, as reported, and shown to me by my colleague, contain the substance of what was said on the occasion. If not verbatim, as delivered, I desire to be considered as taking the responsibility off the Reporter, and, in the language the courts, adopt them as they now stand, nunc ro tunc, so that my colleague may have an endorser without travelling beyond the bar.

Mr. BOND said. Then, sir, I arain repeat, my colleague has consented to a garbled account of that debate, and I have nothing to retract.j

Before Mr. BOND had taken his seat, Mr. WELLER addressed the CHAIR, when Mr. BOND observed that he had a word to say to him also. I did not hear this gentleman on Thursday last, when he was called to order by the CHAIR, and therefore asked that he night proceed. My colleague [Mr. WELLER] then added that he had said what he intended to say, and supp sed I understood him. Whether he then said what the Globe now reports, I know not, for he was at a distance from me; but, if I had heard him, I would bave told him, as I now do, that I can never misunderstand the yelping of a puppy.

Mr. WELLER remarked that he did not know that it was necessary for him to say any thing to his colleague over the way [Mr. BOND;] but as he had participated in the original debate which gave rise to this, he would detain the House a few moments. He then requested his colleague to repeat what he had said just before taking his seat, as he was anxious to understand him.

Mr. BOND said if he had understood his colleague [Mr. WELLER] as charging him with ungentlemanly conduct, as he was reported, he would have regarded it as the yelpings of a puppy.

Mr. WELLER then said he believed the report in the Globe was correct, although the language as reported was not perhaps as strong as he used. He said he did intend that his colleague [Mr. BOND] should understand him as charging that his conduct in dragging before this House a private cilizen of Ohio, and applying to him the appellation of "lying Jake," was indecent, ungentlemanly, and unbecoming a member of this body.

Mr. W. was here called to order, and objections being made to his proceeding, Mr. BROWN of Mis

sissippi moved that he be permitted to proceed, which was granted.

Mr. W. then said this was what he designed his colleague, [Mr. BOND] should understand in his remarks last week, when he charged him with indecent conduct. The language I then used, said Mr. W. was sufficiently plain to be understood by any man, and I cannot doubt my colleague so understood me, his assertion to the contrary notwithstanding

It will be recollected, said Mr. W. by those who were present on that occasion, that my colleague [Mr. BOND] had risen in his place and declared that the statement in the Columbus paper in relation 10 the delegates appointed to the State convention was a tissue of lies from beginning to end. Soon after he took his seat, said Mr. W. I rose and stated that the list of the delegates appointed in the district which I had the honor to represent here was, I believed, correct. My colleague again took the the floor, and I then, said Mr. W. asked him distinctly whether he intended to impeach the correctness of my statement; and that, if he did, I had a word to say to him. Sır, said Mr. W. if he had done so I should have been compelled to bestow an epithet on him which he would have understood. I should have told him, said Mr. W. to his teeth, that he had uttered a base falsehood.

Mr. ANDREWS of Kentucky called Mr. W. to order, and objected to his proceeding, and he was compelled to take his seat.

Mr. WELLER desired to say a few words more, but the House refused.

Mr. TAYLOR of Ohio also made an ineffectua! attempt to obtain the floor, to make some remarks upon the subject in dispute.

The House then resolved itself into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, Mr. CASEY of Illinois in the chair, and took up the bill making appropriations for the civil and diplomatic expenditures of the Government for the year 1840.

Mr. JONES of Virginia moved to amend the bill, by striking out $70,000 for stationery, fuel, printing, etc. of the Senate, and inserting $50,000; and also to amend it, by striking out $150,000 for the same objects for the House of Representatives, and inserting $100,000; which amendments were agreed to.

Mr. WISE observed that it was his intention, before the CLERK began to read the bill, to make some general remarks on the subject of appropriations made by Congress; and these remarks he intended to apply to the accusations made of late by the Executive against the legislative department of the Government. It was not to be denied that the expenses of the Government of the United States had been enormously increased, fearfully increased to those who were for as mple Republican Governmeut, pursuing a system of just economy. It was a solemn fact, to which all minds should be turned, that the expenses of the Government have, of late years, exceeded 33 or 34 millions. It was a fact, that if our revenue was collected by a capitation tax, it would exceed that of the last war with Great Britain. The average expenditures of General Jackson's administration were exceeding 18 millions of dollars, and exceeded those o: Mr. Madison's administration by several hundred thousand dollars, while Mr. Van Buren had trod beyond the footsteps of his illustrious predecessor, in the expenditure of money. A capitation tax to cover these expenditures, would be nearly two do!lars a bead. The excuse of the Executive now was that Congress had exceeded the estimates of the Departments; and that Congress had gone on expending the public money in an extravagant manner, contrary to the approbation of the Executive. Now this was the first appropriation bill presented to them, except that which was introduced in the early part of the session for the pay of the members of Congress, and he wished to have a distinct understanding with regard to the appropriations it contained. The per diem of members was fixed by law, and in passing that bitl they could not go beyond the ordinary expenditure. It was known how many members there were, and the amount of mileage to which each was entitled; so that there could be no mistake.

with regard to that appropriation. But here was the first appropriation bill on which any question of responsibility could arise, and he took it at the first hop, giving notice to gentlemen who had arraigned the legislative department of the Government, in favor of the Executive, that he should call on them to vote for no money but such as the latter called for on his responsibility. The first inquiry that he would of the chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means was: Did this bill, in the gross, and every item in it, and every part and parcel thereofdid it come from the Executive? Was it in pursuance of Executive recommendation? Was it beyond or below the Executive estimates; or in the third place, did it exceed or fall short in the amount appropriated by the bill of the last Congress? Mr. JONES of Virginia, would with pleasure answer the interrogatories propounded by his colleague. The greater part of the items of appropriation in this bill were fixed and ascertained by law. All relating to what was called the civil list proper, perhaps every item, was inserted in virtue of existing laws, and therefore in exact conformity with the recommendations of the Executive Departments. Perhaps he should go further, and say that other items, in exact conformity with existing laws, were intended to be added to them in consequence of communications received from the Departments since the estimats were received.

In reference to the other inquiry of his colleague, whether the gross amount of the appropriations in this bill was larger than that in the same bill of the last Congress, he had to say that he had not compared every item in the one with every item in the other. He believed, however, it would turn out that the gross amount in this bill was larger than that in the bill of the last session, for the reason, as his colleague would perceive, that this being the long long session of Congress, and the other the short session, the amount for the pay of the members and the other expenses of the two Houses were now nearly double to what they then were.

[Here Mr. JONES stated the amount for each session.]

It would also be perceived that there were seve ral other items in this bill where the appropria tions exceeded those asked for in the bill presented at the last Congress; he would name what was asked for, for the various purposes of the land offices, growing out of the fact that there was, at the last session, a considerable amount of money at that service remaining from previous appropria tions. He would mention to his colleague that there were several other items not necessary for him now to mention, as he could explain them more to his satisfaction as they successively came

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tive's reasons.

Mr. JONES of Virginia. All of them are not by Executive recommendation.

Mr. WISE. I understand that the committee has, in some instances, reduced the amounts re commended in the estimates. Is this the fact?

Mr. JONES of Virginia. It is, sir.

Mr. WISE. Let all the facts be recollected we go along, so that there may be no dispute hereafter. As his colleague remarked, (Mr. W continued) there were some items, the most of them fixed and ascertained by law; as, for instance, the compensations of the President and heads of De partments, &c. &c. [naming them and the amounts;] and there were but few items, therefore which varied from those of the year before. Thi bill was based upon the estimates of the long sel sions bill, and yet there being so few items which a variation of expenditure should be mad was it not astonishing that the gross amount shou this year be larger. There was an increase of e penditure, though a general annunciation of econ

cmy was made in the President's opening mes.ge.

The general ad captandum appeal on economy and eta reduction of expenditure which had been read by

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G every body, was fresh in their minds; and yet, sad dahe, when you place his Administration on its details, you will find out the last appropriation bill, as it has been with the others before it, is larger than the one of the year before. Unless some gentlemen of the Opposition should watch these expenditures, we shall, said Mr. W. be going on increasing and Wincreasing our expenditures, and you and I, sir, will be arraigned before our constituents for it. He averred here now, what he had averred at home, that the Executive of this country is responsible for every dollar that has been appropriated for the last seven years. [Here follows a sentence or two, which was not heard by the Reporter.]

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In the next place, the Administration had not, in their general reports and general messages, gone as far as they bad afterwards gone every session of Congress, in their secret and particular recommendations to the committees. They had had, in the Committee of Naval Affairs, one estimate intended for the public eye, and another for the committee room. He did not charge that such was the fact now. This, he understood from his colleague, had been open and above board, and that the committee had cut down the larger estimates themselves. Again, he averred that not a solitary important appropriation, for seven years past, had been made by the two Houses of Congress which the Executive could not have arrested. Show me, said he, the solitary item of extravagant appropriation that the Executive has vetoed, except some internal improvement appropriations vetoed by Gen. Jackson. I shall, continued Mr. W. pursue this subject, calling the attention of the country to it, item by item, and show that we are exceeding the expenditures of the last year even while the President's message is calling out for economy. You may, said he, reduce fifteen millions, and then knock it down to the standard of the war expenses of James Madison's administration. Mr. W. in conclusion said he had accomplished his object, and he assured his colleague [Mr. JONES] that he would assist him in endeavoring to get his bill along as fast a possible.

Mr. CUSHING desired to add two or three remarks, in addition to what had been said by the gentleman from Virginia, [Mr. WISE,] in all of which he entirely concurred. In order that there might not be any future question with regard to the appropriations in this bill, or any other, and that the Administration might not endeavor to shift the responsibility off its own shoulders, and throw it on Congress, he desire to make some addition to the remarks of the gentleman from Virginia, and, "in perpetuam rei memoriam," state what was his understanding of the subject. If what he should say was incorrect-if it involved any imputation on the Committee of Ways and Means-then they were to disavow any inferences which he might put upon this bill. This was a bill proposing an appropriation of millions-he did not know how many-and these millions were subdivided into a great number of items. It would be a serious task to pick out all these various items, and reconcile them with the estimates of the Secretary of the Treasury; and in order that a gentleman might do it to his own satisfaction, he must have some little knowledge of the de ails of the business of the Treasury. In addition to this we have, said Mr. C. been told that the committee have varied from the estimates in various respects-in how many the chairman did not tell them. But it appeared that the committee reduced some of the items, and aug. mented others.

Mr. JONES of Virginia. No, sir, not augmented.

Mr. CUSHING, as to augmentation, asked if there were not amendments to be proposed containing new appropriations.

Mr. JONES of Virginia replied in the affirma

live.

Mr. CUSHING. I ask if these new amendments appear in the estimates of the Secretary of the Treasury.

Mr. JONES of Virginia. Not in the estimates, but from additional information received by the

committee from the Departments since the esimales were furnished. The amounts are not large, and I am ready to furnish the gentleman with all the information in regard to them. These estimales came in, as he before remarked, some time after the others had been received, and, therefore, were not printed with them. He wished to have them printed for the information of the House.

Mr. CUSHING continued. There were then additional estimates to be moved, and which the gentleman tendered for the purpose of hav ng them printed. He desired that the might be printed so that they might be able to trace all the appropriations in this bill. It would give them aditional means of comparison between the bill as it should pas, and the recommendations of the Executive. But there would be additional difficulty in going through all these items to ascertain whether Congress or the Executive should be responsible for them. He did not wish to encounter this labor. He held it to be unnecessary. He held that the Committee of Ways and Means were the

representatives of the Treasury Department on that floor; and, therefore, all they proposed was to be considered as coming from that source. He held that the Committee of Ways and Means, a majority of them being of the party of the Administration, presented the views and wishes of the Administration, in whatever appropriation they asked for. He took this ground with a view of preventing any mistake or erroneous application hereafter of responsibility for appropriations founded on the recommendations of the Executive. He entirely agreed with the gentleman from Virginia, that they had a right to hold the Administration responsible for all the appropriations.

But there was another view of the subject, not in connection with party considerations. It might very naturally happen, in the present state of things, when, in the beginning of the session, the Executive come comes out with a preachment on economy, with exhortations against extravagance, that some necessities for expenditures should arise, after the estimates had been sent in. Now, whether it was right or not for the Executive to exhort Congress to be economical, when he had the right to make economy himself-when Congress had not the final control of the expenditures-when, owing to the relations between the party members of this House and the chief of the Administration, there would be some sympathy felt for his wishes-he would not pretend to say. But whether or not that was a matter of propriety on the part of the Executive, was not of much consideration. But he would say that the exigencies of the country, the public defences-objects of the highest utility, just and proper in all respects-might require expenditures, which it might be that the Executive had omitted to recommend, with a view of carrying out this all considered economy, which he had urged in his opening message.

In this view of the subject, though he did not desire to go beyond the estimates, yet he would consider it the duty of Congress to make such appropriations, and he was prepared to vote for them. He held the Executive responsible for the condition of the country; and if he had neglected to recommend such appropriations as were necessary for the objects he had alluded to, he considered it a more momentous breach of duty, and more deserving of censure, than if he had been guilty of extravagance. He held that the Administration was placed in this alternative-that it must hang on one horn of the dilemma Ether it neglects to recommend Lecessary appropriations, to make party capital, or, treading under foot these professions of economy made in the message, disdaining this game of brag, of not who shall best govern the country, but who shall cheapest govern the country; and if such is to be the course of our administrators, we had better at once let the Government out to the lowest bidder. He would say no more on these professions of impracticable economy, for the mere purpose of gaining political capital. He held that the Administration which did it, did a worse act than subjecting itself to the charge of extravagance, for it must subject itself to one or the other of the two charges, and he would prefer that it should subject itself to the latter. If the Administration saw fit to

neglect its duty for the purpose of throwing off responsibility, he, as a member of Congress, would not follow its example, and he felt bound to vote for those appropriations necessary for the defence of the country.

Mr. JONES of Virginia said he apprehended that he and the gentleman from Massachusetts were not likely to disagree very much as to the course necessary to pursue in the investigations that were necessary in order to ascertain the principles on which both these important bills depended. Both of the gentlemen who had addressed the House, desired to secure strict accountability on the part of the Executive officers. Allow me to say, continued Mr. J. that I entertain the same views, and that, in order to accomplish them, the gentleman shall have my hearty co operation; and further, if gentlemen would only put their fingers on an item of appropriation that was like extravagance, he thought he should be able to satisfy them of the error into which they had fallen. This general mode of attack, by way of assailing every thing in the gross, and particularizing nothing, was one of those rguments which it was impossible to meet. It was like a shot thrown into a whole covey, where it would be impossible to see how any one point cou'd be defended. He did not unders and the gentleman as objecting to any one particular proposition, though he desired a strict accountability on the part of the Executive, and so did he. He knew of no professions of ad captan. dum economy that had been made by the Executive, and he saw no reason to doubt the sincerity of the recommendations in the message.

After some further remarks from Mr. WISE, Mr. WHITE of Kentucky asked the chairman of the committee if there was any reduction in any of the items, except pensions and internal improve

ment.

Mr. JONES of Virginia said that the estimates for the Indian Department were vastly reduced below those of former ses ions, because many of the occasions which required expenditures to be made, had ceased, and therefore, the aggregate would not be so large.

Mr. WHITE merely wished to call the attention of the chairman to the fact that, with the exception of the items he had mentioned, the aggregale of the appropriations in this bill exceeded that of the last year.

Mr. JONES of Virginia said he was aware that wherever a reduction should fall, there would be no credit given for it, though the Administration was sure to be censured for an increase of expenditure, without any allowance being made for the necessity of it. Honorable gentlemen politically opposed to the Administration, used with advantage every item which had a tendency to run the aggregate of expenditures up; and when that item was reduced, they used it with the same effect to show that no credit was due for the aggregate being lower. For instance, when the pensions were larger than now, it was drawn into the general aggregate to swell the amount appropriated, and to charge extravagance upon the Administration. It was in vain for us to urge that this was an extra affair, a reward for the old soldiers of the Revolution, who were daily dropping off, and that it would gradually be discontinued. So, also, with regard to the appro

pria ions for the Florida war, which were in like maoner drawn into the general aggregate, and charged as extravagance upon the Administration. It was said here, your Administration has expended five millions more than the last year; and it was in vain to answer that this money was expended for the purpose of protecting your women and children from the tomahawk and scalping knife of the Seminole. This little book (holding up the estimates) has been referred to again and again to show the extravagance of the Administration, while those who make the charge do not point out any particular item which comes within that designation. Now (said Mr. J.) all I want is to hold gentlemen up to their own figures and arguments. If they charge extravagance when particular items of expenditure are large, let them give credit when those items are reduced-let them cancel the debit by entering the credit. But his colleague said that it had been the practice to present one estimate for

the public eye and another for the committee rooms. To this he could only answer that, if there had been such practice, it never was within his knowledge.

Mr. WISE hoped that his colleague did not intend to misrepresent him. What he said was, that we have general, estimates and general reports which are printed and published, and that then, during the sessions of the committees, we had other estimates coming in, which are not published and printed. Now his colleague admitted that the commitee had had some such this winter, and that they had not been printed.

Mr. JONES said he understood his colleague, at first, to say there was one estimate intended for the public eye, and another secret one for the committees. He now understood him to say that additional estimates were sent in after the general list at the commencement of the session.

Mr WISE said he would state a fact, on his own responsibility; and that was that he had known a high officer of the Government, in the time when we apprehended a French war, to make a verbal all for a larger appropriation tha he dare call for in writing.

Mr. JONES of Virginia did not believe that the remarks of his colleague was calculated to be prejudicial to the Administration. The warm manner of his colleague was calculated to make an impression that there was something wrong, and they would have had that effect, if it had not been for the explanation he had afterwards given; for he admitted in it that it would be nece-sary for the Departments to send in additional estimates, after the commencement of the session. There was no man who had any knowledge of the business of the Departments, but must be aware that this could not be avoided. An injury done to one of the fortifications, after the meeting of Congress, and after the estimates have been sent is, makes it necessary for the Secretary of War to come forward, and ask for an additional appropriation to repair that injury. This was a sample of the communications which his colleague spoke of as secret, and not intended for the public eye. Sir, (said Mr. J.) I have nothing to conceal from the public eye. He desired that every thing should be laid open, and such was the desire of the Executive. The honorable gentlemen from Massachuseits spoke of it as something very remarkable, that this impǝrtant bill was not accompanied by reports explaining every item. Now when it was known to the gentleman that this committee was allowed but thirty days from the commencement of the ses sion to report every one of the appropriation bills in; and when he bore in mind, that owing to the length of time that elapsel before the committees were appointed, that at this session they had but twenty days to perform that duty in, he would admit that they had more than should be imposed on them within that limited space. But why call on the committee to explain every item in this bili? Had not the gentleinan every particle of information which the members of the committee had? Could he point to a single avenue of information which was not as accessible to him as to the committee. If he would take up the documents of the House for this and the last session, he would have all the information that was necessary to enable him to arrive at a correct result. Unless the gentleman designed that others should perform this work for him, he would not call on the members of the committee for it. Mr. J. knew the gentleman's ability and great industry, and that he was every day capable of obtaining all the information he desired. Mr. J. did not desire to detain the committee, and therefore would say nothing further until some gentleman rendered it necessary for him to do so.

Mr. BELL adverted to the past practice in relation to the estimates; and called the attention of the chairman of Ways and Means to a certain document, officially reported to the House at a previous session, in which was contrasted the amount called for in those estimates, with the amount actually appropriated by Congress, with a view to show that the responsibility of the excess above the estimates was attempted to be thrown upon ConDress, by practising a kind of fraud upon the peo

ple in relation thereto. He contended that the
charge that Congress was responsible was not well
founded, but that the odium, if any, attached
to the Executive. The Executive had been in
the habit of sending in estimates, which
went forth to the country in the annual documents,
and were extensively circulated; but subsequent
ly application would be secretly made to the Com-
mittee of Ways and Means to place in the appro-
priation bills items omitted from the estimates, whe-
ther by design er not he was not prepared to say,
but it looked very much like it from the facts of the
case-items which when aggregated would swell the
appropriations to miliens beyond the estimates. In
proof that the Executive had two sets of estimates, he
as-erted that in some instances they were reported
to Congress, and from which were omitted even the
sums necessary to carry on the Florida war, and to
fulfil Indian treaties; objects for which the proper
departments knew appropriations were absolutely
and indispensably necessary. The same course
had been pursued this session, to a certain extent.
A trea.y, which had just been ratified by the Se-
nate, and which the Executive, when he sent in the
estimates, must have been aware would, in all
probability, be ratified, wound need some three or
four hundred thousand dollars to fulfil. This
would necessarily swell the aggregate of appropri-
ations. Yet no mention was made of the P obabi-
lity of this amount being needed, and would be
hereafter charged upon Congress. Mr. B. before
concluding his remarks, adverted to the Indian
wars, (which had contributed to swell the appropri
ations,) and contended that they grew out of the
bad management of the Executive, or the agents of
the Government under his control.

Mr. JONES, of Virginia, observed that it must
be perfectly apparent to every member of the com-
mittee, that in the remarks he submitted a few mo-
ments ago, he intended to apply them to what had
transpired at the present session of Congress, and
did not intend to go beyond it. He kne v very
well, that he would have enough on his hauds,
without going beyond the range of his duty, and
referring to the transactions of the Administration,
for the last four or five years-to the documents
of which, the gentleman wished him to go back to.
Now if there had been any fraud practised, he was
very sure that they would not have escaped the ob-
servation of the honorable gentleman; and that he
would not have been backward in making the pub-
lie acquainted with them. All he had now to say,
was, that he had seen nothing on the part of the
Executive, which showed a desire to conceal any
thing from the Legislature, or from the people.
But the honorable gentleman had gone back to
show that the President was censurable for the
manner in which he carried on the Florida war.
We all know, said Mr. J., how easy it is to find
fault, and the gentlemen can prove, in their speech-
es and on paper, that every thing in this war has
been conducted wrong, and that the President is
little better than a fool, while our ablest generals
know nothing about military affairs. Let such ar-
guments go forth to the country for what they
are worth, and the people will know how to put the
right construction upon them.

Mr. BIDDLE did not feel inclined, and perhaps was no physically able at this moment to follow the somewhat erratic course of this debate. He merely rose to say a word as to the degree of weight that should be attached to these bills, from having been reported by the Committee of Ways and Means. In most cases the items were found in the estimates from the Departments, which had been embodied in the report of the Secretary of Treasury, and were referred to in the boast of the President's message about the saving of five millions as compared with last year. Other items had been presented from the Deparsments which were not in those estimates. Mr. B. had taken a stand at the outset, that he would resist the introduction of such items, unless an explanation was given why they had been dropped in the estimates laid before the President. The committee had declined to go the length of this principle, but had, he believed, generally required the sanction of a department, and repudiated that of surbordinates, who had been, in the first instance, put forward. The

result would be, that for the supplemental items
thus introduced, there was no tangible enduring
responsibility; the application from the Depart-
ments were fugitive, and would be forgotten; and
the expenditure, even for an additional clerk, as it
appeared in the statute book, would'seem the act of
this body, in defiance of the President's anxious
injunctions. Mr. B. said the honorable chairman
[Mr. JONES] knew, and would, of course, in the
progress of the bills, point out such items. They
want to be watched with jealousy. He believed
that items of magnitude of this description, would
come rather from other committees than that of Ways
and Means, which he was bound to say, had been
vigilant and scrupulous. Mr. B. would not be
understood as saying that he would vote for
nothing but what was in the President's estimates.
Far from it. But with regard to matters pressed
slyly by the Department, after a general statement.
had been got up for the public eye, he would hold
them to a rigid explanation.

Mr. HUBBARD remarked: Mr. CHAIRMAN, I am a new member, and shall not go over the ground so much debated here to-day, as to who has been most to blame for extravagance in expending public money during former sessions of Congress; whether it be the present and former Fresident, or Congress.

I shall endeavor to confine myself to the question now under debate; and upon this subject I have to state, that so far as I can judge, from what I have witnessed, the most talented opponents of the Administration have not treated the President fairly on this question of expenditure of public mo ney. In my opinion, an opposition to an Adminis tration, on the ground of extravagance, should be able to point out what items of appropriations for the public service are too high. If there be such, I call upon the talented gentlemen now denouncing the President in general terms for wasting public money, to point out the item that is too high, and I will go with them. They will always find me among those who vote the least sum which will carry on the Government. If they cannot point out some particular item, it does seem to me that it is unfair to make general objections against the President, and by that means make the people dis satisfied with the administration of the Govern ment of their choice, by so much clamor against bills that gentlemen, after all of their com plaining, themselves vote for. Do they expect they can excuse themselves to their constituents after voting for such appropriations, by endeavor ing to shift the blame from themselves to the Presiden? They cannot do it, sir. The people will require voling against as well as speaking against appropriations, of which complaint is made to them. I have, Mr. Chairman, witnessed, on the part of the most talented gentlemen of the Opposition in this House, a method of attacking the President, which seems to me very unusual and unstatesmanlike. It is ih s: whi'st complaining of the Presi dent for his extravagance, and making the greatest profess ons of economy themselves, yet wher ever the President has failed to make a call upon us for money for any object of expense to which our money has heretofore been applied, these gentlemen have attacked him in the most violent manner for not including that particular object in his estimates for the year.

Gentlemen know, or ought to know, that when ever the Government begins to withhold public money from interests or sections of country accus tomed to receive it, that the very act of withholding money from that section or interest must neces sarily, of itself, iritate and displease the people so disappointed.

Now it does seem to me that if these reductions in the estimates are proper, a statesman or patrio would rather desire so sooth and quiet the people so disappointed, by making them acquainted with the true condition of the whole country, and th impoverished situation of the Treasury. Bu if these reductions are not proper, then appears to me that, as statesmen and patriots they should show that the country required an e larged expenditure, and support it with their votes But it does appear to me that this method of de nouncing the President for expenditures for whi

we vote ourselves; or denouncing him for not callte ng upon us for money which we ourselves are not Inwilling to raise by our votes, is more like a mere bipartisan warfare than patriotic statesmanlike opC position.

These, sir, are my views upon the question of Prese expenditures. I know that I am, under the Con=tostitution, responsible to my consituents for the moMoney I vote away; and I will not attemp! to shift ach that responsibility upon the President; nor can

any member here excuse himself for voting away the public money on the ground that the Presi-hardent is extravagant. He can use or expend no public money, unless we here vote it for him, and reBquire him to use it; and I now tell gentlemen of all w parties who themselves are disposed to cut down

this appropriation bill, that they will find me with them upon every attempt to lop off needless expend.tures.

Mr. VANDERPOEL said he was glad to hear such professions of economy from the other side of Me the House. He assured gent'emen that he would co-operate with them in the great work of economy, about which they now seemel so solicitous. If the result shall prove a little practice, as well as profession, on their part, he (Mr. V.) would underlake to prophesy, that the revenues of the year would still be equal to its expenditures; particu larly if we should pass a declaratory law, according to the propos tion of the Committee on Manufactures, to guard against the frauds and evasions in your revenue laws, which were so constantly occurring. The gentleman from Maine [Mr. EVANS] had, a few days ago, told us that the Secretary of the Treasury had given us too flattering a view of the finances; that there was a permanent deficit; that in asking for the power to issue Treasury notes, he asked for nothing but palliatives; and that the Secretary was deceived, if he entertained the idea that, with the aid of five millions of Treasary notes, he would be able to get through the year. Notwithstanding the confident assertions of the gentleman, he (Mr. V.) entertained a confident hope that the Secretary would be able to get through W the year without further aid, if you promp ly passed the above declaratory law, and took care, in your appropriations, not to exceed the estimates. He had heard some strange doctrines to-day; doctrines that seemed to him (Mr. V.) to conflict directly with sentiments which their authors had so often reiterated here. The gentleman from Virginia [Mr. WISE] says he holds the Executive responsible for every appropriation made by Congress within the last seven years. How did the gentleman expect the Executive to arrest the legislation of Congress in regard to appropriations? Was it by means of the veto power?

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[Mr. Wise responded: "No, not by the veto."] Then, said Mr. VANDERPOEL, I wish the gentle. man wou'd define the means which he expects the President to use to prevent improper legislation by u<?

(Mr. Wise said it was a certain indefinable power, which no one understood better than his friend from New York. It was a look, or a hint, or a shake of the head, by the President. This was all that was necessary to deter his faithful supporters in this House from voting for any measure.]

now,

Mr. VANDERPOEL said he was astonished to hear such a doctrine as this from the gentleman from Virginia. For more than six years has that genleman, and the "indefinable" party with which he has acted, most indignantly declaimed against the alarming increase of Executive power; this has been the burden of his never ending complaints; and forsooth, he holds the President blameworthy, because he will not transcend his own constitutional functions, and dictate directly to members of Congress, in regard to matters that come clearly within their constitution province. Was it not very strange that the gentleman should, so suddenly, change his tune? For years has Executive encroachment, real or imaginary, been with that gentleman the a arming political sin of the times; and now, behold, it suits his purpose to attach blame to the President, because he has not practically encroached far righ on the jurisdiction of Congress. He, Mr. V. was not prepared to hear such a doctrine-such a ground of blame

against the President from that quarter. He could now, however, he hoped, congratulate the country that the frightful bugbear of Executive influence had at least disappeared; for the leader of the Opposition had told the House that the President was culpable, because he had not more efficiently exerted that influence.

Mr. V. said he was not a little surprised at the positions assumed by the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. CUSHING] He tells us that he would hold the President responsible, not only for all appropriations made by Congress, but he would also hold him responsible for the omission of Congress to make necessary appropriations, if they were not included in the estimates. The President, then, is to be blamed if Congress appropriate too much; and the President is to be equally blamed, if Congress appropriate too little. It seems that there is no possible way of shielding the President from censure, unless Congress adopt the very exact medium which accords with justice and propriety. This is certainly placing the President in a pretty difficult position. Such doctrines at this late day seemed to him, Mr. V. to miltate very much against all the arguments and denunciations he had, for the last several years, heard against undue Executive influence. It was a little singular that the gentleman from Massachusetts should venture to hold the President so strictly responsible for all the appropriations made by Congress, when we considered what that gentleman had done here within the last four days. That gentleman had recently, as a member of the Committee of Foreign Affairs, reported a bill to appropriate five millions of dollars to indemnify a class of claimants for spoliations committed by France anterior to 1800. Now if it should so happen that his bill should become a law, some four or five years hence, when gentlemen of the Opposition shall hold up, in frightful colors the appailing aggregate of the expenditures of this Government, they will take good care not to admit or state that, with this large item of five millions, the Executive had no connection; and yet, according to the arguments of the two gentlemen who had preceded him, the Preside t ought to be held responsible for such appropriations. And it was of this that he, Mr. V. complained. When gentlemen talked about, or denounced, the expenditures of a particular year, they contented themselves with the aggregate: never troubled themselves with particulars, for if they did so, they would show that their own vo'es were instrumen al in swelling up these agregates. We do charge, sir, that the larg expenditures of late years are mainly attributable to Congress, and not to the President. This very year, a proposi tion has come from one or two of my colleagues, [Messrs. MARVIN and BERNARD,] to appropriate a very formidable sum for the improven en's of rivers and harbors; appropriations for objects of this description were not included in the estimates sent here by the Departments. Still, if his colleague's bill should pass, it would serve to create a new text for homines some two or three years hence, upon the extravagance of this Administration.

Some five years ago, we passed a bill to increase the compensation of the officers of the navy; for which he (Mr. V.) voted; but the most formidable opposition it encountered, was from the friends of the Administ ation here. This had swelled the naval expenditures very considerably; yet gentlemen, when they denounced any increase, would not tell us that they voted for a measure, which essentially contributed to such increase. Confine yourselves, then, to the estimates; and, my word for it, you will not have so much occasion in future times to complain of the extravagance of 1840.

After some remarks from Mr. GRAVES,
On motion of Mr. DUNCAN,
The committee rose, and
The House adjourned.

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the Congress of the United States for the term of six years from the 4th of March, 1841; which were read, and ordered to be printed.

Mr. WALKER presented a petition of citizens of Lowndes county, Mississippi, praying for the enactment of a general bankrupt law.

Mr. W. said he would take this opportunity to state that he was in favor of the passage of a general bankrupt law, if corporations, and especially banks-which are now setting up as a kind of submonarchies in the land-were embraced in its pro

visions.

The petition was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Mr. W. also presented the petition of John Scarborough and Nancy his wife, of the State of Mississippi, stating that they are the parents of twenty living children, praying a donation of land; which was referred to the Committee on the Public Lands.

Mr. W. also presented the petition of citizens and members of the bar, praying the removal of the circuit court of the United States to Vicksburg; which was referred to the Committee on the Judciary.

Mr. W. also presented the petition of William H. Smith, of Miss ssippi, praying the confirmation of his title to a tract of land; which was referred to the Committee on the Public Lands.

Mr. W. also presented the petition of Griffin Ross;

The petition of Thomas H. Ross;
The petition of Seth Ross;
The petition of George Reed;
The petition of Isaiah Gates;

The petition of A. Hollands; and

The petition of J. W. Curry>;

all of Mississippi, praying a pre-emption to certain designated tracts of land; which were re'erred to the Committee on the Public Lands.

Mr. HUBBARD presented documents in relation to the claim of James H. Relfe; which were referred to the Committee on Claims.

Mr. DAVIS, in behalf of his colleague, [Mr. WEBSTER] presented a document in relation to the drawback of duties on refined sugars; which was ordered to be printed.

Mr. MOUTON presented the petition of Lewis L. Harper, praying a pension; which was referred to the Committee on Pensions.

Mr. SMITH of Connecticut presented the petition of number of citizens of the State of Connecticut, praying a reduction of the postage on letter; which was referred to the Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads.

Mr. WALL submitte additional documents in the case of Thomas L. Winthrop, and others, directors of the New England Mississippi Land Company.

Mr. W. also presented the petition of a number of citizens of Tuckerton, N. J. remonstrating against the establishment of a certain mail route; which was referred to the Committee on the Post Office and Post Reads.

FRONTIER DEFENCES.

Mr. NORVELL presented a preamble and joint resolutions of the Legislature of Michigan, concerning the military protection of the frontier of that State. While up, he would take the occasion to express his profound surprise at the opinion expressed by General Scott, in the communication lately made by him to the War Department, in relation to the British military preparations on the northern frontier-that he regarded all forts and barracks built on that frontier as of little or no military value to either of the parties, in the event of a new war between the United States and Great Britain. He declares that from Cornwall, which is on the St. Lawrence, along the whole frontier line of Upper Canada, extending, as it does, several hundred miles all the way up to Lake Superior, such structures are of no military value. Uninformed as he was in military science, he must nevertheless say that the "fixed opinion" of the gallant General was at war with all the notions which he had derived from history or observation upon such subjects. He had been in the habit of regarding the military attainments, courage, and skill of that distinguished officer, with great respect; but it was certain that

his views did not correspond with the opinions of the people along the whole line of northern frontier. They did think military works of great importance, both to accomodate the troops, and to defend the country. They could not see how such works could be dispensed with one side, when they had been constructed, and were in a course of con. struction, on the other side. He did not believe with the General, that the British military preparations at any point were made, and making, solely to protect the neighborhood "from refugee incendiaries from our side." With the views which he entertained upon this subject, he must be permitted to ask the special attention of the Military Committee to the works already existing, as well as to those required for our defence, on that frontier. And he would move the reference of the resolutions, together with a letter from the Governor of Michigan, to that committee, and further that they should be printed for the use of the Se

nale.

The reference and printing were ordered.

Mr. N. also presented the memorial of a number of citizens of Berrien county, Michigan, praying the passage of a general bankrupt law; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Mr. N. also presented the memorial of the Lake Superior Fishing and Mining Company of the State of Michigan, praying to be allowed the right of working the mineral lands belonging to the United Sates along the southern shore of Lake Superior, in the said State; which was referred to the Committee on Public Lands.

Mr. SMITH of Indiana presented the following preamble and resolutions of the Legislature of the State of Indiana, which were read:

A PREAMBLE AND JOINT RESOLUTIONS IN RELATO THE NORTHEASTERN BOUNDARY. Whereas, The General Assembly of the State of Ohio have adopted and caused to be laid before this General Assembly the following resolutions, to wit: "Whereas, by the Declaration of Independence on the fourth of July, seventeen hundred and seventy-six, the United States of America became a sovereign and independent nation, with full power over the territory within her limits; and whereas, at the treaty of seventeen hundred and eighty-three, between the United States of America and Great Britain, the Northern and Northeastern boundaries between the two Governments were fairly designated and distinctly described; and whereas the said British Government has since set up claims to a part of the territory of these States, and now lying within the State of Maine; and whereas the subjects of the British Crown have recently invaded and trespassed upon the territory of the State of Maine, and within the limits of this Confederacy; and destroyed the property belonging to the State: Therefore, Be it resolved by the General Assembly of the State of Ohio, That we view with united approbation the prompt and energetic action of the authorities of Maine, to protect the rights and honor not only of their own State, but of the whole Union: Resolved, That the act of Congress conferring upon the President of the United States ample power and means to protect this nation from foreign invasion, has our full and most hearty assent: Resolved, That while we highly approve the efforts made by the President of the United States, to avert from this country the calamities of war, and earnestly hope that they may be, as they have been heretofore, successful; yet, hould a collision take place between this Government and Great Britain, in the settlement of the pending dispute, Ohio tenders her whole means and resources to the authorities of this Union, in sus'aining our rights and honor: Resolved, That the Governor be directed to transmit a copy of the foregoing preamble and resolutions to the President of the United States, and to the Governors of the several States," March 18, 1839;

THEREFORE, Be it resolved by the General Assembly of the State of Indiana, That we fully concur in and heartily approve of the above resolutions of the General Assembly of the State of Ohio.

Resolved, That while we cherish the hope that,

in the adjustment of the question of our national boundary, the integrity of our soil, and the national honor, may be preserved inviolate without an appeal to arms, yet we will ever prefer honorable war rather than dishonorable peace.

Resolved, That, should a collision take place between this Government and Great Britain in the settlement of the pending dispute, Indiana tenders her whole means and resources to the authorities of the Union in sustaining our rights and honor, Resolved, That the Governor be directed to transmit a copy of the foregoing preamble and resolutions to the President of the United States, to each of our Senators and Representatives in Congress, and to the Governors of the several States. The resolutions were laid on the table, and orderet to be printed.

Mr. LINN pr-sented the petition of Joseph Philipson, of Missouri, praying the confirmation of his title to a tract of land; which was referred to the Committee on Private Land Claims.

Mr. RUGGLES presented the following resolutions passed by the Legislature of Maine, which were read:

RESOLVES RELATING TO THE NORTHEASTERN BOUNDARY.

Resolved, That the patriotic enthusiasm with which several of our sister States, the past year, tendered us with their aid to repel a threatened foreign invasion, demands our grateful recollection; and, whilst this spirit of self sacrifice and self devotion to the national honor pervades the Union, we cannot doubt that the integrity of our territory will be preserved.

Resolved, That the promptness and unanimity with which the last Congress, at the call of this State, placed at the disposal of the President the arms and treasures of the nation, for our defence; the firmness of the Executive, in sustaining the action of this State, and repelling the charge of an infraction of the arrangement made with the British Lieutenant Governor in March last, and charging back upon the British Government the violation of that agreement; their decision, in demanding the removal of the British troops now quar ered upon the disputed territory, as the only guarantee that they sincerely desire an amicable adjustment of the boundary question; afford us confident assurance that this State will not be compelled single handed to take up arms in defence of our territory and the national honor, and that the crisis is near when this question will be settled by the National Government, ei her by negotiation or by the ulti

mate resort.

Resolved, That, unless the British Government, during the present session of Congress, make or accept a distinct and satisfactory proposition for the immediate adjustment of the boundary question, it will be the duty of the General Government to take military possession of the disputed territory; and, in the name of a sover ign State, we call upon the National Government to fulfil its constitutional obligations to establish the line which they have solemnly declared to be the true boundary, boundary, and to protect this Sate in extending her jurisdiction to the utmost limits of our terrilory.

Resolved, That we have a right to expect the General Government will extend to this member of the Union, by negotiation or by arms, the protection of her territorial rights, guarantied by the Fed ral compact, and thus save her from the necessity of falling back up n her natural and reserved rights of self defence and slf protection-rights which constitutions can neither give nor take away; but, show'd this confidence of a speedy crisis be disappointed, it will become the imperative duty of Maine to assume the defence of our State and national honor, and expel from our limi's the British troops now quartered upon our territory.

Resolved, That the Governor be requested to forward copies of these resolutions to the President and Heads of Departments, and to the Senators and Representatives in Congress from this State, with a request to the later to lay them before the respective bodies of which they are members; als, to the Governors of the several States, with a request to lay them before their several Legislatures.

The resolutions were referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations, and ordered to be printed.

Mr. R. also presented resolutions of the Legisla ture of Maine in opposition to the bill reducing the duty on salt, and repealing the fishing bounties, &c. which were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed.

Mr. ALLEN presented the memorial of a num ber of citizens of Maumee, in the State of Ohio, praying the passage of a general bankrupt law; which was referred to the Committee on the Juhciary.

Mr. GRUNDY submitted an additional document in relation to the petition of Preston Starrit; which was referred to the Committee on Claims.

Mr. BENTON, from the Select Committee, which was raised to make a legal and documentary report on the origin and character of the fishing bounties and allowances, submitted a report; which was ordered to be printed.

Mr. DAVIS, from the minority of the same com mittee, made a report upon the same subject; which was ordered to be printed.

Mr. ANDERSON moved that ten thousand additional copies of these reports be printed for the use of the Senate.

Mr. RUGGLES objected to this motion. He hoped that the usual number would be printed, and then if it was deemed to contain matter interesting to the public, a motion could be made to print a larger number.

Mr. HUBBARD was g'ad that the Senator from Tennessee had made the motion for the printing of an extra number of these reports. The subject of which they treated was one of great interest to a large portion of New England, and he wished that all that could be said on both sides might be ge nerally read. He would therefore vote for the

motion.

Mr. ANDERSON said he had one or two reasons for his motion, with which he would not have trouble the Senate, but for the objections which had been urged against it.

The subject was one of the greatest interest, and, as to one branch of it, had already attracted the deepest a ten ion of the public. Inquiry had been awakened in almost every portion of the country, and the most lively expectation was fell, Tarticularly in the interior and the Far West-and coming, as he did, from a State that had an ear nest solicitude upon the subject of the salt tax, and being a member of the committee that made the -report, he thought it his duty, and due to the im portance of the questions involved, to move for the printing of an extra number of copies, with a view to give to the people all the information within our power. The two reports now submitted to the Se nate contained the adverse opinions which had leng prevailed in the country, fully expressed, and presen ed a full and complete documentary and legal re view, arranged with accuracy, and embracing the statutory provisions from the origin of the subje through its whole progress, to the present period. These statutes had been examined and compared, from 1789 onward, and the whole evidence growing out of petitions and reports, which had been presented to Congress by those who entertained conflicting opinions, were put into a condensed form, with lacid comments, which shed ample light upon the questions, and he had no doubt would he highly gratifying and greatly useful to the publie He trusted that the printing wou'd be ordered: he thought it due to the importance of the subject and to the people.

The question was then taken, on printing the ex tra number, and it was cgreed to.

Mr. WALL, from the Committee on the Judi ciary, reported a bill to amend an act, approve January 18, 1839, entitled an act to amend an a entitled an act to require the judge of East an West Tennessee to hold a court at Jackson, in sal State, approved June 18, 1838, and for other pu poses; which was read, and ordered to second read ing.

Mr. NORVELL, from the Committee on th Public Lands, to which was referred the bill for th relief of James L. Cochran, reported it with a

amendment.

Mr. CLAY of Alabama, from the Committe the Public Lands, to which was referred the bill annex a certain tract of land to the Coosa land d

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