Columbia stood to this railway belt. In that the Government may lease coal lands, July 1873, the Provincial Government the rent to be paid being a royalty of two received an order in council accompanied by and a half per cent. Such a provision was a despatch from the Dominion Government impracticable of application in British asking it to convey to the Dominion Gov- Columbia, and he questioned whether it ernment a belt of twenty miles from would work satisfactorily in the North Esquimault to Seymour Narrows. At West Territory. Such an arrangement that time it was thought that the Allan would really make the company or indiviCompany would succeed in floating its dual working the coal mine who possessed scheme and would go forward immediately the most skill and exercised the greatest with the construction of the railway. The economy, to pay more than an extravagant Provincial Government could not make firm. He, therefore, recommended the that conveyance because the Imperial Government in case they extended the Statute, or the railway clauses of the terms Dominion Land Act to British Columbia, of union, made it incumbent on the and granted leases in certain cases to Dominion Government first to locate the levy a royalty of so much per ton. Unless line; but the Provincial Government did the Government adopted this course, there the next best thing they could to keep was only one other course for them to faith with the Dominion, they reserved adopt, and that was to allow the Provincial this land from sale, from preemption and Government to sell, or lease, or dispose of from lease. A despatch was afterwards the land within this railway belt in accordreceived stating that the Dominion Gov-ance with the land laws of British Columernment was willing that the land should bia, but with the understanding that the remain reserved. The land had remained proceeds, after deducting the expenses of reserved, therefore, up to the present time. the sales, should be paid to the credit Under the new arrangement with respect of the Dominion Government. He beto the construction of the railway, the lieved to-day that such land as Dominion Government intended to pro- belonged to the railway belt would be more ceed at once with its construction from cheaply managed in the interests of the Esquimault to Nanaimo, and he took it Dominion if an arrangement were made that they ought to make an arrangement by the Dominion Government with the with the Provincial Government to obtain Provincial Government for the survey and possession. The Dominion Government sale of those lands. He hoped the resoluought to make the Dominion Land Act, tion moved by his hon. friend the member which applies exclusively to Manitoba and for Vancouver would produce the results the North-West, apply to British Colum- he anticipated, and that the Government bia, so far as it was applicable, and under would during the present session, take some that Act appoint an officer there to sell means to place the railway belt in the hands those lands. There were one or two of the people. points, however, in connection with that Act, if it should be adopted, in which it would be advisable to modify the Act in that country. Many people went to British Columbia; some of whom had only their labour and others their capital. The lands were now unsurveyed. He thought, therefore, there ought to be provision made in case the Act was to be extended to British Columbia that any person might put in his application to purchase unsurveyed land, and the Government should send out a recognized surveyor, and have it surveyed at the expense of the party making the application. In that way there would be no delay in the settlement of those lands until the general survey had taken place. In the Dominion Land Act, provision was made

Mr. DeCosmos.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE remarked with reference to the last observation of the hon. member for Victoria that, considering that the people of Canada are paying an annuity of one hundred thousand dollars a year in perpetuity, equal to ten millions of dollars, for this railway belt, he hoped the people of Canada would be allowed to manage it themselves, and not remit the management to British Columbia. While he heartily supported such a mode of administering that and the other public lands as would produce the settlement and development of the country, he thought that, having to pay so dearly for these lands, we had better take care of them ourselves. With reference to the observations of the hon. member for Vancouver to the effect that he (Mr. BLAKE) had stated in a public speech that the

people of British Columbia were inhospit- | British Columbia was the most difficult able, he begged to say that the hon. gen- country for the purpose of railway contleman was mistaken. He had not said struction. The official reports showed SO. Any one who knew the hon. gentle- that the altitudes on the Union Pacific man, himself a representative man from Railway were 8,000 feet while in British British Columbia-any one who had Columbia they were only some 4,000 feet. observed the exertions in the direction of He had been credibly informed that the hospitality of that hon. gentleman-exer- advantages offered to immigration to the tions which for the moment while he was lands along the American railway were speaking one might have supposed were inferior to those offered by British Colsuccessful—would perceive that it was umbia, because in the latter country the quite impossible that he (Mr. BLAKE) could soil was more fertile. The difficulty in have talked of the people of British building a railway through British ColColumbia as inhospitable. No; he had umbia had been greatly exaggerated. If spoken of the country, and he spoke in the the Americans could build the Union sense of a country through which a rail- Pacific in three and a half years in a time way was to be built. In that sense he of war when the altitude to be crossed spoke of it as a sea of mountains" and was 8,000 feet surely it could not be said as an inhospitable country. He need not to be an extraordinarily difficult work to go very far to prove the truth of that build a railway through British Columbia, assertion. Amongst the official documents where the altitude was only 4,000 feet. brought down to the House was a map of He believed it could be built one-fourth, British Columbia prepared by Mr. TRUTCH, aye, one-half as cheap as the American then Chief Commissioner of Lands and road. He went on to speak of the advanWorks, and Surveyor General of that Pro- tages of the Canadian Pacific Railway in vince, and now Lieut. Governor. He enabling us to command the carrying would hold that map up to the House and trade of the East; and he hoped the imask them if the country therein delineated portance of securing that trade and prowas not rightly described for the purpose moting immigration would induce the of railway construction as a sea of moun- Government to put forward the most tains, and inhospitable. He was glad to energetic efforts in advancing the work of know that in some of the valleys there the construction of the Canadian Pacific was such good wheat grown as that which Railway. the hon. gentleman had described, and he hoped there was more such land than he had at first supposed. But for the purpose for which he was speaking he was prepared to maintain that his statements were correct, and that the country was as difficult a country as could be found for such purposes. The hon. gentleman had referred to another part of his (Mr. BLAKE'S) remarks, namely; those relating to the terms which the Government had offered to the people of British Columbia. Upon that point he had only to say that further reflection and information had not caused him to modify in the slightest degree the views he had then expressed. He still entertained the view that the offer made was of a very liberal character, and he should regret if any more liberal offer than that should receive the sanction of the House or the country.

Mr. BUNSTER said he congratulated the hon. gentleman on his conversion and accepted his apology; but he had to inform him that he was mistaken in stating that Ilon. Mr. Blake.

Mr. ROSCOE wished to ascertain what the state of negotiations were between the Dominion and the British Columbia Government. With reference to the map exhibited by the hon. member for South Bruce, he had to say that it was drawn up on the principle followed in former days in preparing a map of the interior of Africa; that is, when they knew nothing whatever of the place they put in a mountain. It was true they had mountains in British Columbia—mountains of silver, of copper, of lead, and what was better, of gold, and also mountains of timber where the trees grew 300 feet high and were six feet in diameter.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said he presumed the object of the hon. gentleman in moving this motion was simply to bring this matter before the House, because he could not of course expect such a motion to carry. The Dominion Government so far had no power in reference to these lands. The First Minister of the late Government had endeavored to obtain

an assignment of these lands to the Dominion for the purpose of taking some such steps as the hon. gentleman now suggested, but the Local Government had promptly replied that no such assignment could be made till the railway was located, they not being bound to do so by the Order in Council admitting Columbia into the Union. The railway was not located then, and at the present time the Government were not prepared by any Minute of Council or other authoritative document to say to the British Columbian Government that any portion of the road was located; and until they were able to do that the Columbian Government would undoubtedly adhere to their former resolution. The Government intended to make such provisions as would enable them to proceed with a survey of these lands the moment that it was in their power to do so,but they could not force the local government in this matter, and by the 11th clause of the Order in Council they had the power to allow persons to go upon these lands by pre-emptive right, subject, of course, to such prices and regulations as may be established by the Dominion Government as the ultimate proprietors. Nothing more than this could be done at present, and he hoped the hon. gentleman would rest satisfied with the assurance he gave him that the Government would lose no time, so soon as they had it in their power, in taking such steps as would effectually promote the settlement of the country so far as these lands were concerned. The Columbian Government had large quantities of land now available for settlement in places so remote from any possible location of the railway that there could be no difficulty in having them located, and in other places where it was possible the road might be built, persons settling could now acquire pre-emptive rights, and these rights might be acted upon with the perfect assurance that the same principles would apply to them as to prices and rights of property to actual settlers purchasing, after the lands came into the possession of the Dominion Government. He did not see, therefore, that there was any serious hindrance to the occupation of lands throughout Columbia, and the increase of the population in that way as the hon. gentleman suggested. Two or three applications had been made to the Dominion Government within the last six months, with Hon. Mr. Mackenzie.

reference to applications made to the Local Government for the right to sink shafts to search for minerals on these lands, and in these cases the Dominion Government waived any right they might have in the matter in order to enable such companies to proceed with the developement of the mineral resources of these lands. Anything of this kind that the Government could fairly and justly do in the interest of the public till they were in possession of these lands as sole proprietors they would of course feel themselves bound to do. As to giving the Local Government in the meantime the right to alienate these lands upon terms to be arranged by them, they paying over the proceeds, less the expense incurred, while he had no doubt they would exert themselves to do what was right in the matter, he did not think the Dominion Government could entertain such a proposition for a moment. 1t was in fact, entirely out of the question; but he could promise the hon. gentleman that in this as in every other matter affecting that Province, the utmost expedition consistent with wisdom and prudence would be exercised by the Government in order to accomplish the end the hon. gentleman desired. He asked the hon. gentleman to withdraw his resolution, trusting that he was satisfied with the explanations that had been given of the policy and intention of the Government. He might say one word with regard to the railway. The policy of the Government was one which they did not desire for one instant to withhold from public inspection. They were now taking measures to proceed with the construction of the line from Esquimault to Nanaimo, without admitting that at all to be part of the main line when finished, though it might be. they were finally able to locate the main line it was impossible to do anything further than to proceed as far as Nanaimo, from which point the line might be proceeded with or it might terminate opposite any point fixed upon as the terminus on the main line. No time would be lost and active measures would be taken by the Government immediately on the opening of spring to prosecute the survey of that portion to completion as rapidly as possible, and also to prosecute the survey on the main line, so that they might be enabled finally to locate the line. Every

Till

thing had been done that it was possible very. serious difficulties existed at to do with the money which Parliament present in Columbia because of the placed at their disposal last session for that

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said he had not alluded particularly to the Island, but had quoted the language of the Order in Council respecting the whole Province, which was: "The Government of British Columbia shall not sell or alienate any further portion of the public lands in any other way than by the right of preemption." He might add that when the head of the Columbia Government was here lately, he had per to sonally semi-officially, he might say, though not in writing-discussed this matter with him, and called his attention to various matters connected with the land question, particularly to the fact that the Indians were now claiming that their title was never extinguished, and that Hon. Mr. Mackenzie.

hoped that the Government would see the necessity of placing a properly constructed steamer on this route, and give the experiment a fair and impartial trial.

Hon. D. A. MACDONALD said he desired to state for the information of his hon. friend, and for the information of the House, that tenders were asked for this service; and that of Mr. KING, of Halifax, was the lowest. The Government instructed the Inspector of the Marine and Fisheries Department to examine the vessel Mr. KING proposed to put upon the route, and he having done so, she was reported capable of the work, and in good condition. Upon that report the Government entered into a contract with Mr. KING for the sum of $9,000, who undertook to complete the engagement and proceeded to carry out the contract. The steamer made one or two passages successfully; but this winter had been so unprecedently severe, and there was such an unusually large quantity of ice to be encountered, that unexpected difficulties and disasters interposed. In fact, from the information the Government had received from the Island, they were led to understand that the winter had been the most severe that had been witnessed for a great many years. The steamer was at the island, and was unable to cross to the main shore. It was evident from the information in the possession of the Government that it was not likely that the steamer was able to perform her duties. The contractor was bound to furnish a steamer suitable for the service, which the present boat certainly was not. Either he would have to perform the duty in a proper manner, or the Government would have to see that a proper boat was put on the route. had grave doubts whether the service could be continued Edward could be continued during the entire winter. There were certain times when it could not be done, still, the Government were bound to run a steamer to the island, and they were determined, if they could not get a suitable boat for the service, to have one built.

the winter season. In doing so, he said it would be remembered by many hon. gentlemen, at least such of them as were interested in the maintainance of communication between Prince Edward Island and the adjoining mainland, that during the course of last spring a contract was entered into between this Government and a Mr. KING, of Halifax, for the purpose of carrying mails and passengers between the ports of Georgetown, Prince Edward Island, and Pictou, N. S. During the present winter, this contract was attempted to be carried out, but he regretted to say, with the most indifferent success. The disappointment in connection with this failure was all the more keenly felt from the belief that the boat placed on the line was utterly unfit for the service. From all he could learn -and he had made the most careful inquiries in regard to this matter -it appeared to him that the boat was certainly unfit for such difficult service. She was of the ordinary construction, altogether too small, and not sufficiently powerful for making her way through the ice. He was free to confess that the winter had been an exceptionally severe one, and that the quantity of ice in the Gulf was something extraordinary. However, this was no reason why a properly constructed boat should not be placed on this route. He need scarcely add that this naval curiosity gave out early in January, and as a consequence they were compelled to fall back on the usual route of communication between Capes Traverse and Tormentine. He was not at all sanguine that steam communication could be kept up all winter, but should it shorten their beleagurement by six or seven weeks it would be a great boon to the people of Prince Edward Island, as well as those of the adjoining Provinces. As he had already remarked, the ordinary winter route was from Cape Traverse to Cape Tormentine, a distance of some ten miles. The straits were there crossed by means of ice boats, an arduous and dangerous mode of travelling; but he was fully convinced that for a certain time during the winter this must be the only means of crossing. He would, therefore, be happy to see ample provision made for the hardy and faithful men who were at present engaged in this dangerous but unremunerative service. In conclusion, he Mr. McIntyre.

He

Mr. SINCLAIR was very glad that this matter had been brought before the House. His opinion was that the Government would have to buy or build a boat suitable for the service, and own it themselves, because no company would have the same interest in looking after the lives and property of passengers as the Govern