was

industrious habits of the Menonites. He was satisfied that Mr. RALSTON'S colony a failure, because instead of there being two hundred and fifty or three hundred persons as was represented, there were only seven families when he saw that gentleman. The other colony referred to by the hon. Premier was also a failure. The Menonite colony was, however, a stern reality. It comprised thirteen hundred people, who had arrived there last summer, and who possessed considerable means. It was the nucleus of a very large settlement, and they were a class of people who were satisfied with the country. Many immigrants complained of the scarcity of wood and water, but though five of the eight Menonite townships were without timber, yet they were satisfied and industrious and determined to encourage their friends in Southern Russia to meet them there next season.

Mr. MASSON desired to suggest to the hon. Premier a method of surmounting the difficulty raised as to granting aid to French Canadians at present settled in the United States who desired to emigrate to Manitoba. The French Canadian population in the United States was largely in groups, and no difficulty would be experienced by the Department in making arrangements, so that no person who had not resided in the United States a certain number of years would come within the arrangement.

Hon. Mr. POPE said that with respect to the question of aiding Canadians or British subjects who had settled in the United States he had endeavored to ascertain how many were desirous of returning to Canada. When in charge of the Immigration Department he had offered all fair and proper inducement to those people to return to Canada, but up to this time not many had returned. He fully concurred in the proposed loan of $100,000 to the Menonites, because he was perfectly satisfied that the money would be returned, and the immigrants were of as good a class as could be obtained. The item passed.

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT assured the House that the country would see that the money was not for any other purpose than that for which it was voted. His hon. friend from North Waterloo and North York would be able to inform the House as to the standing of the persons who had become responsible for the amount. He understood that the Menonites objected to giving a mortgage upon their farms.

Mr. BOWMAN said these people had no objection to giving mortgages to the persons who proposed to make themselves liable for the repayment of this loan. They were worth from $5,000 to $75,000 each, and he learned from the leading gentleman amongst them that it was their intention that no one should make himself liable for over one-tenth of the value of his property, so that if it became necessary for them to pay it out of their pockets they could do so. Gentlemen on the other side of the House appear to examine this matter in a very critical spirit, but the men who made themselves responsible for the payment of this loan, he was glad to be able to assure them, were thoroughly reliable. It was a part of their creed that every man ought to pay his dues and the obligations he undertook. He was perfectly satisfied that these men would carry out their obligations to the letter and the Government would be quite safe in leaving the superintendence of the Loan to themselves.

Mr. CHARLTON said if the Government succeeded in securing four or five thousand of these emigrants on a well recognized principle of political economy as applying to this new country that would increase the capital of the country by four or five million dollars, and would thus have in the emigrants themselves a repayment of the loan. He would be glad tɔ see the Government go a little further, and expend small sums upon opening up railways in the back countries, as well as assisting emigrants of other classes in the same way as they proposed to assist the Menonites. He looked upon the policy as

a wise one.

Mr. DYMOND said he thought the simple fact that the gentlemen who became responsible for the repayment of

cient to satisfy every one. Their simple

be their mortgage or an oath. In addi

Mr. Trow.

tion to the guarantee given by their co-religionists in Waterloo and York, these people were bound together in Manitoba by peculiar religious ties, and we had not simply the pledge of individuals, but what amounted to the pledge of the whole community, that they would be responsible for the loan; indeed there was no doubt they would be sucessful in their enterprise. With regard to extending this system of loans as had been contended for by his hon. friend from North Norfolk, he was afraid that were it to apply generally there would be no end to this system of investment, although the Menonites might repay their debts better than the majority of persons. After all, the Menonite was of no more value as an emigrant than any other man, and he would respectfully protest against the idea | of an unlimited system of loans. So long as his hon. friend, the First Minister, was at the head of affairs he was not afraid of the results, but a time might come when the affairs of the nation would unfortunately pass into other hands, and the fact that the Government had small creditors all over the Dominion would not be very satisfactory.. It would afford the means of undermining the virtue of the deople and might probably offer very serious temptations to the virtue of the Government.—The item was then passed. Items 48 and 49,-$1,352 and $5,826 | respectively, for pensions, were passed without discussion.

On item 50,-$50,000 to meet the probable amount required for pensions to veterans of the war of 1812,

Mr. KIRKPATRICK asked for some explanations. He desired to know whether those who had served for a shorter period, were to be placed upon the same footing as those who had served for a long period, and whether all regiments would get a grant, or whether those known as the Glengarry regiment, which, he believed, had been pensioned by the Chelsea Hospital authorities, were also to have a share. He also desired to know whether the widows of the veterans of 1812 would receive any consideration.

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said he feared they could give nothing to the widows. The intention of the Government was to give to all men in actual service, numbering, he believed, probably about five or six hundred-of course they

Mr. Dymond.

could not tell the exact number, as some applications had come in which would. doubtless not be fortified by the records. Those receiving aid must be at least seventy-six or seventy-eight years of age, because the great number of those who took any part in that war must now be about or over 80. The pensions would be as nearly as possible approaching in amount to those given to the pensioners of the regular army at home.

Mr. BROUSE said the Government were to be congratulated upon the amount of money already in these estimates, and it was upon this one. When this question was brought before the House it was in consideration of the royal warrant issued from Chelsea Hospital to the effect that it was understood that certain soldiers of HER MAJESTY'S army who had taken part in the wars of 1815 were in indigent circumstances, and that it was proposed to give them pensions. He regretted that the British Government had ignored an application of the Canadian veterans. The first case in respect to which an application was sent to England was favorably considered and the pension was granted, and three or four others had been granted. Since then they had refused a general application. The sum proposed to be voted would, to a certain extent, meet the wants of very many of these veterans, and when it was known that we had 500 or 600 men upon this portion of the continent who had approached the old age of 70 it would, perhaps, tend to dispel the illusion of certain journals which refer to the climate of Canada as one scarcely fit to live in. About 100 of these old veterans live along the side of the St. Lawrence, and were prepared to do service for their country again, notwithstanding the remarks of the hon. member for South Ontario. He congratulated the Government on having asked for this vote.

Hon. Mr. POPE also added his congratulations, but thought the Government had stopped a little short. He did not see why the widows of these veterans should not also have some share of this money. It was an injustice which he hoped the Government would consider.

Hon. Mr. VAIL said he was afraid it would be impossible to carry out the suggestion of his hon. friend. If they assisted the widows, the question would arise whether they should not also assis

the fatherless children. It would be difficult to discriminate in regard to the time of service, but he thought they would have to adopt the policy of giving those who came in at the the eleventh hour the same as those who were engaged for the whole time.

In reply to Mr. FLESHER,

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said it was intended that the vote should be taken yearly. Item passed.

On item 51-$8,000, compensation to pensioners in lieu of land,

He

Mr. HAGAR asked explanations. said there were pensioners in his county who had been promised a grant of $100, but it had never been given to them. He desired to know what the policy of the Government was in respect to them.

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said the Government could not investigate any claims against the Imperial Government, excepting those which had already been recognized.

Mr. KIRKPATRICK called attention to the item of $2,133 asked as a pension to the Hon. L. A. WILMOT of New Brunswick. He believed that Mr. WILMOT had resigned his position, and now, after five years it was proposed that he should be put on the pension list. He thought there should be a special Act to cover this

case.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said he thought the case was covered by the Act of last session, but promised full explanations at a future stage.-Item passed.

Items 52, 53 and 54, under the head of Militia, were adopted.

On item 54, Military College, including two Ordinary Schools under District Staff, $40,000,

Mr. MASSON asked how far the School was in progress, and suggested whether it would not be advisable to employ officers belonging to the country instead of importing them from abroad.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said it was necessary to obtain an officer of high military rank. An offer had been made to an officer of that kind, selected by the Commander in Chief, at the instance of the Colonial Secretary, but he had declined it. Negotiations were afterwards entered into, but they had not yet succeeded in getting the proper person. It was not the intention of the Government to make any subordinate appointments until the comHon. Mr. Vail.

mandant was appointed, whose advice would be taken. They had already the names of several distinguished military men in various parts of the Dominion, who probably would receive appointments. Item passed. Also, the next item, ammunition, $40,000.

On the item, clothing, $75,000,

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said the increase this year of $50,000 over last year arose from the fact that last year the vote was very much cut down. There had been a good many complaints of the need of more clothing for the men.-Item passed.

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT explained with reference to the next item, Military Stores, $60,000, that it was found necessary to make the increase of $35,000, thus bringing the item up to its former standard, because it had been found that the reduction last year was too great.

Mr. HAGGART asked if the clothing was manufactured in Canada cheaper than it could be obtained in England.

Hon. Mr. VAIL said he was not in a position to state, but even if it cost a little more it would be better to have it manufactured here.

Mr. WOOD highly approved of the course pursued by the Government in encouraging home industry in this matter.

Mr. MASSON also approved of it, but he thought the Government should have ascertained in the first place what was the difference in the price between cloth manufactured here, and imported.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said they had done so before the present Minister of Militia joined the Cabinet. The cloth here was a little dearer than it could have been procured in England, but it was better, and would wear longer, and the Government therefore considered it was practically as cheap.—Item passed.

On next item, No. 59, Public Armouries and Care of Arms, $52,000,

Mr. KIRKPATRICK asked if the Government proposed any change in the system of keeping arms. He was very much afraid that a considerable number of the valuable arms distributed some two years ago were not now in so good a state as they might be.

Hon. Mr. VAIL said that matter had engaged the attention of the department. The Major General had reported in favour of an additional sum being given to certain care-takers who had charge of the arms.

He quite agreed with his hon. friend that sufficient care had not been taken of the arms, and he hoped better care would be taken of them in future.-Item passed.

On item 60, Drill Pay, &c., $375,000, Mr. FLESHER asked what was the intention of the Government with reference to drill this year.

Hon. Mr. VAIL said they had not yet decided whether they would have camp drill or merely drill at the headquarters of each regiment. He himself questioned whether it was wise to have camp training every year.

Mr. DYMOND suggested that if the militia were called out for camp drill, some time of year be fixed that would be most convenient, and at the same time most comfortable for the men. In one instance they were called out in October, although they might just as well have been called out in June, which was a much superior season. If the system of camp drill was to be continued, he would suggest the propriety of having it only every other year, and then instead of twelve days let sixteen or eighteen days be taken. At present the time was too short for the men to become familiar with their duties.—Item, passed, as was also item 61 contingencies $63,000. On item 62, Targets (revote) $19,500,

Mr. FLESHER called attention to the necessity of nine targets for the rural districts. He commanded a company for several years, and they had never been supplied with a target.-Item passed, also item 63.

On item 64, care and maintenance of properties transferred from the Ordnance and Imperial Government, $10,000.

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said some Imperial officers had made complaints which appeared to be justifiable of the condition of some of these properties, and it was necessary that proper care should be taken of them. Of course, no more would be spent for this purpose than was absolutely necessary. Item passed.

On item 65, for Improved Fire-Arms (Snider Rifles and 66 Henry Martini Rifles,) $40,000,

Mr. KIRKPATRICK asked whether these "Henry Martini" Rifles were to be kept in store or distributed to favored

corps.

Hon. Mr. VAIL said it was proposed to purchase them at all events for the militia Hon. Mr. Vail.

of the coming year. The Imperial Government had a quantity on hand which they offered to dispose of.

Mr. LANDERKIN asked if these arms were to be used by Rifle Associations as well as Volunteer Companies.

Hon. Mr. VAII-That question has also items 66 and 67. not yet been considered.-Item passed,

Dominion Force in Manitoba, $125,000, On item 68, Pay and Maintenance of

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said they had been able to reduce this item by $50,000, chiefly in consequence of the Mounted Police Force, and it was not impossible that owing to the success of that latter force they might be able to make still further reductions.

Mr. MASSON called attention to the fact that the report of the Minister of Militia was not yet before the House, and therefore they could not judge of the state of the Manitoba force. However, he was in that Province last fall, and he was somewhat startled on being reliably informed up there that that force had not performed any target practice since they went up, and had not even fired a blank cartridge. He would take this opportnnity of saying that while the Mounted Police might do good service, he thought their services so far had been greatly exaggerated. He suggested the propriety of introducing something of the military system into that force, making it something like the gens d'armes of France, and then of doing away with the militia force entirely.

Hon. Mr. VAIL said his report had been in the printer's hands some days, and he hoped to lay it on the table of the House in a few days. The information which the hon. gentleman had given to the House was new to him; but if what he had stated was correct, he (Mr. VAIL) might congratulate the House and the country on the fact that it was not necessary for the force in Manitoba to fire even a blank cartridge. That force had been reduced by some 50 men, leaving about 200 there still.

Mr. HAGGART asked why one of the officers who had distinguished himself in the first expedition, and had been asked to command the troops in the second, had been discharged when the reduction was made.