for the purposes of education and for relieving cases of real want. To give aid generally to the Indians would be to encourage idleness. With respect to the funds owned by the Indians, they were not subject to the vote of this Parliament. The Indians had a right to their own money, and it was paid to them and the interest arising therefrom. In the Lower Provinces the Indians were not so highly favoured as in Ontario, and this vote was in some measure, making up for this deficiency. In Ontario the Indians relied entirely on their own funds, and there was nothing coming out of the Public Treasury for them. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL said he must have entirely misunderstood the object of this vote. His impression was that it was distributed to the individual members of each tribe. What he wished to know was whether the funds arising from the Indian lands of New Brunswick were at their disposal in addition to this grant. If they were, he was satisfied. Hon. Mr. VAIL assured the hon. member for Cumberland that there was money derived from the lands of the Indians in Nova Scotia. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL said his statement was that it was very little as compared with the revenue from the Indian lands in New Brunswick. Hon. Mr. VAIL said the fund amounted to a considerable sum at the time of Confederation, when it was handed over to the Indian Department.-The item was carried. property transferred by them to the Dominion. Mr. MASSON said the conditions of the treaty made a year ago last fall had not been complied with, and he thought it was not asking too much of the Government to have these papers laid before the House before proceeding with the discussion. Hon. Mr. LAIRD said that it had not been usual to bring down treaties which had not been made during the financial year, The treaty which had been referred to had been embodied in his report, which he expected to be able to lay on the table within one or two days. Its presentation had been delayed, owing to the preparation of a map in which all the lands proposed to be dealt with would be shown. He thought he would be able to satisfy the hon. member for Terrebonne, who had raised some objections, in regard to Treaty No. 3. The hon. member had visited the country when the Indians were complaining that the money which had been promised them had not been distributed. It was distributed, however, shortly afterwards. The articles which were also promised to the Indians were on hon. member was talking with the Indians. their way to the North-West when the The great distance which they had to be conveyed caused a considerable time to be occupied in their transportation, and they were distributed late in the season. Every effort had been made to carry out strictly the provisions of the treaty which had been made in the fall of 1873. provided that the reserves were to be selected by Commissioners sent to consult with the Indians. It was not deemed expedient that there should be two meet It was On item 153, relating to payments under the treaties with the Indians in the North-West, Mr. MASSON suggested that the dis-ings, one to receive the treaty money, and cnssion on these items should be postponed until the papers relating to the recent treaty with the Indians were brought down. He had heard numerous complaints that the treaties entered into a year ago had not been carried out by the Govern ment. Right Hon. SIR JOHN MACDONALD suggested that the items not | affected by these treaties could be discussed. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said these papers could not affect these items. They were not gratuities to the Indians, but the money involved in a bargain and sale of Hon. Mr. Eaird. another to meet for the selection of the reserves, consequently the distribution of money had been delayed for a short time, until Mr. Dawson, one of the Commissioners, was able to be present. Mr. Dawson was delayed two or three weeks at Fort William by illness, and he was not able to go forward so soon as he expected. Every point the hon. member for Terrebonne could bring forward the Government would be able to explain without the treaties being laid on the table. Mr. MASSON said the complaints were not made to him at a time when the money had not been paid; the money had been paid, but the articles promised had not been delivered, and there was no sign of their being delivered. The statement of the Minister of the Interior proved that the members of the House were unable to ascertain whether the Canadian Government had fulfilled their promises made to the Indians without knowing from the Government what those promises were, which could only be done when the treaties were laid on the table. The Indians complain that the engagement which the Government had entered into had not been carried out; so far from saying that the money had not been paid, they said that the money had been paid, but that all the articles promised had not been given, and that some of those which had been given were spurious. He knew, therefore, what the complaints of the Indians were for, but not being able to see the treaties made a year ago last fall, he could not say whether their complaints were just or not. If the Government promised that, before concurrence was taken, the treaties would be laid before the House, he would not offer further opposition at that stage. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said that if the members of the Opposition desired the items for treaties 3 and 4, for which the Government were responsible, to stand over, he would offer no objection; but with respect to the other treaties, as the House voted payments last year, he must insist on those items being passed. Hon. Mr. LAIRD was understood to say that medals had been distributed, the surface of which washed off with wear, but for that he was not responsible. Mr. MASSON said he had never asserted that the Hon. Minister of the Interior was responsible for the distribution of spurious articles. He supposed somebody was responsible. Sir JOHN MACDONALD said that if the late Government promised silver medals they were given; if plated ones, they were given. Item No. 153, respecting treaties 1 and 2, was then passed.~ Nos. 154, 155 and 156, were allowed to stand. M. CIMON :—Le comité me permettra de lui adresser la parole sur un sujet qui intéresse un certain nombre de personnes vivant dans le comté que j'ai l'honneur de représenter. Malheureusement je ne trouvais en dehors de la Chambre lorsque l'hon. Ministre de l'Intérieur a expliqué le but de Mr. Masson. ce vote d'argent. Je dois dire qu'il reste encore dans le comté que je représente, des vestiges de la fameuse tribu des Montagnais, si nombreuse autrefois et maintenant réduite à quelques familles. Le Gouvernement ne saurait vraiment leur montrer trop de sollicitude, et pour démontrer au comité qu'ils méritent l'intérêt que je leur porte, je demanderai la permission de lire une lettre que j'ai reçue de leur chef avant mon départ pour Ottawa, à l'approche de cette session. Cette lettre, ajoute l'hon. membre, contient quelques expressions sauvages, dont je laisserai la traduction à l'hon. Greffier de la Chambre. RÉSERVE DES SAUVAGES, TOWNSHIP OUIATCHOUAN, 23 Janvier 1875. A-ERNEST CIMON, Ecr., Député à la Chambre des Communes par les Comtés unis de Chicoutimi et du Saguenay. TIWAIEM MINO, (Notre ami.) Permets à de pauvres descendants de la tribu des Montagnais, autrefois si nombreuse et si puissante de t'exposer, en vue d'être soulagés par qui de droit, le triste état de misère dans lequel ils languissent surtout cet hiver. Depuis des années les chasseurs aux pâles visages ont envahi notre territoire de chasse, et en dépit des lois de notre bonne mère la Reine, ils ont fait cette chase de manière à détruire presque complètement les visons, les martres, les loutres, les castors et autres animaux à poils précieux. De plus, le souffle irrité du Grand Esprit a changé de grandes forêts en une mer de feu, et nos chasseurs se sont assis mornes et silencieux, en regardant leurs wigwams détruits. Cet hiver nous sommes revenus sans pelleteries pour vendre, et notre faim est grande. Notre bon ami, M. OTIS fait ce qu'il faut pour nous, mais il ne peut suffire à tous nos besoins. Toi dont le cœur généreux nous est connu, et qui va bientôt s'asseoir dans le grand Wigwam à Ottawa, tu parleras de la misère des pauvres Sauvages du lac St. Jean, au Gouverneur Général grand ami de la Reine. Tu lui diras que nous profiterons bien de la terre qu'ils nous a donnée pour semer, mais qu'en en attendant le printemps, nous sommes en proie à la faim, et que les larmes des femmes et des enfants brisent le cœur du pauvre Sauvage. | Dis lui que la terre de nos ancêtres, dont le. nom comme hommes pacifiques est grand, ne voit que quelques wigwams, habités par la misères et la désolation. Parles lui, comme tu sais parler et notre prière sera écoutée de notre grand Sachem, (chef.) Tu écriras à notre bon ami Oris que tu connais bien et qui doit aussi parler N'oublie pas de saluer pour pour nous. nous le bon Takœgan, et tous les sachems du grand Wigwan d'Ottawa. Eh bien, M. le PRÉSIDENT, on voit par cette lettre le triste état dans lequel se trouvent ces pauvres Indiens. Et la lettre que je viens de lire n'exagère aucunement le triste état dans lequel se trouvent les Montagnais, car j'ai moi-même été témoin de leur misère. Ces sauvages vivent de pêche et de chasse et n'ont rien autre chose pour trouver leur subsistance. Ne trouvant plus dans le voisinage du lac St. Jean les moyens de subsister qu'ils y trouvaient autrefois, à raison des empiètements de la civilisation et des progrès constants de l'Agriculture et de la colonisation ; à raison aussi de ce que les blancs font eux-mêmes la pêche et la chasse dans ces endroits, ils sont obligés de partir l'automne pour aller faire la chasse à deux ou trois cent lieux au Nord. LACASSE le prouve suffisamment. Je me permettrai de lire quelques extraits de cette lettre, qui contient ce qui suit :— On constate souvent avec peine qu'il meurt trente cu quarante de ces pauvres sauvages pendant la saison de la chasse. Si l'on considère que le Gouvernement Canadien retire des revenus toujours croissants des territoires autrefois habités par les sauvages et des pêcheries qu'il afferme, on sera porté à leur accorder généreusement ce qu'il faut pour leurs besoins. Je félicite le Gouvernement actuel d'avoir marché sur les traces du dernier Gouvernement, en donnant aux Indiens l'attention nécessaire et en leur votant certaines sommes d'argent. Mais il y a encore des progrès à faire. Cette année surtout le Gouvernement ne doit pas se montrer trop parcimonieux, car il est de fait que plusieurs Indiens du lac St. Jean sont exposés à mourir de faim cet hiver. Il serait très injuste, de notre part, de lésiner avec ces pauvres gens, après avoir hérité de leur pêche, de leur chasse et avoir succédé à leur ancien patrimoine. J'attire de plus l'attention du Gouvernement sur les sauvages qui demeurent à la Rivière Bethsirmites, où la misère règne aussi d'une manière affreuse, comme la lettre du Père M. Cimon. "Je vous dirais difficilement tout ce que la position faite aux Mathémeuses tribus sauvages de notre endroit a de pénible. Tout "leur a été enlevée, à l'exception peut être de "leurs droits sur la rivière Bethsiamites qui "leur reste. En forme de compensation, le "Gouvernement envoie quelques faibles secours aux veuves et aux orphelins de la tribu, mais "là se trouvent toutes ses faveurs et c'est absolument insuffisant pour faire face à la misère générale. Jusqu'ici nos pauvres sauvages se sont montrés assez résignés à leur triste sort; "mais aujourd'hui qu'ils souffrent plus que "jamais, ils perdent toute patience et s'agitent. "Ils nous demandent pourquoi le Gouvernement ne tient pas avec eux ses promesses. On ne "leur a enlevé tout droit sur leurs nombreuses "rivières qu'après leur avoir donné l'assurance, par l'entremise de Mgr. BAILLARGEON, et du "Révd. Père ARNAND, que le moitié du revenu "de l'exploitation de ces rivières leur revien"dront annuellement. D'après la loi "de Dieu, ces indigènes peuvent posséder ce qu'ils tiennent de leurs ancêtres et n'oublions pas que parce que celui qui la leur ravit est le plus fort il ne s'en suit pas que cet acte ne "soit et ne reste point une injustice criante.” Il me semble, M. le PRÉSIDENT, que le Gouvernement ne fera qu'un acte de justice en accordant une allocation suffisante à ces pauvres malheureux. Le fait que souvent il en périt de cinquante à soixante chaque hiver dans les bois, faute de moyens de subsistance, en dit assez au cœur de chacun. Si le Gouvernement leur aidait de façon à prévenir ces longues courses qu'ils sont obligés de faire pendant l'hiver pour gagner leur vie, ces malheurs ne leur arriveraient pas. Sous ces circonstances, j'espère que le Gouvernement fera tout ce qu'il pourra pour alléger la misère de ces pauvres Indiens. Hon. M. GEOFFRION-Si l'honorable membre qui vient de parler avait été présent lorsque l'hon. Ministre de l'Intérieur a expliqué l'item 149, il aurait vu que le Gouvernement était allé au devant de ses désirs, l'item en question est précisément demandé pour venir au secours des tribus qui se trouvent dans l'extrême besoin, et le Gouvernement a déjà expédié des secours à ceux dont l'hon. membre vient de représenter les besoins. L'hon. membre pour Chicoutimi ne nous donne pas souvent son approbation, et si nous pouvons l'obtenir cette fois, elle nous paraîtra d'autant plus précieuse qu'elle est plus M. MASSON.-C'est si microscopique! M. GEOFFRION.-Quoi ? L'Opposition? Respecting the item of $4,500 for Indians in New Brunswick, which had been passed by the Committee, justify the Government to support two Commissioners and give them large salaries, those gentlemen who performed the duties gratuitously in past years were entitled to be considered when the new appointments were made. He had no fault to find with the Commissioner for the Western portion of New Brunswick, but it was inconvenient to have a Commissioner in Frederickton with whom the Indians at the North end of the Province had to do business. Item 158, salaries and office expenses, $16,750 was adopted. On item probable expenses in connection with Indians in British Columbia, $25,000. Mr. DECOSMOS asked what the Government intended to do in the administration of Indian affairs in British Columbia. Ever since the Union, promises had been made from time to time of a reform in that respect, but nothing had been done. One Commissioner sent out there was drawing his salary but was not doing anything. It had been the policy of the British Columbia Government, while he was a member of it at any rate, to give the Indians as much land as they could utilize and yet it was said that that Government was treating the Indians badly. He thought it was a great mistake for the Dominion Government to press upon the Local Government to grant the Indians a larger reserve than they could use. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said it was well known that the scheme proposed by the late Government was to have three Commissioners appointed for British Columbia, of whom the LieutenantMr. COSTIGAN desired to offer some Governor was to be ono, and that as there remarks. The late Government had was a large number of both Protestant appointed two Indian Commissioners for and Catholic missions, one of them should the Province of New Brunswick at salaries be a Catholic and the other a Protestant.. of $400 or $500. He did not think that The present Government had carried out the salaries of those officers were too large that plan, but difficulties had arisen in for the services they were called on to per- reference to the Lieutenant Governor form; but what he complained of was the acting in the capacity of Commissioner, fact that, while whenever the Indians and he had not taken any active part in made an application to the Government this matter. In the meantime two other for assistance they continually received a Commissioners were on hand, and he had statement in reply that there were no no reason to doubt the entire efficiency. funds derived from their lands sufficient The Indians of British Columbia had been to enable the Government to give them any relief. Commissioners were appointed at high salaries derived from those same lands. The Government would do wrong if they continued those offices. The former Commissioners did the work without salary, and if the funds were sufficient to M. Cimon. in a state of chronic discontent the whole of last year, and he was bound to say that he did not wonder at it. He did not consider that they had been fairly used in the land matter. All the Dominion Government had asked the local Government to do was to place the Indians of that the present one. Both Governments had neglected their duty. He heard last session that they intended to do this and that, but up to the present time he was not aware that they had done anything. The best proof that could be given of the manner in which the Indians of British Columbia had been treated by the Pro Province on as good a footing in respect to the amount of land reserved for them as the Indians to the east of the Rocky Mountains, but according to the evidence which had been published-among other communications a letter of the English Church clergyman, who was a devoted missionary among the Indians in that Province, and also a letter by the Roman | vincial Government was the words of the Catholic priest, who had also labored Premier himself. He had stated that among them, and which letter had since the Union the Dominion Governappeared in the British Columbia papers- ment had expended more money in the and taking into consideration the fact that Indian Department of British Columbia the Indians had on several occasions of than was spent during the whole previous late undertaken by violence to assert their history of the Province. That showed rights, he was forced to the conclusion that that the Provincial Government knew there was chronic discontent among the how to manage the Indians, and it was Indians which might break out into a only since the management of Indian flame at any moment. The Dominion affairs came into the hands of the Dominion Government had therefore made strong Government that discontent had arisen. representations to the local Government He strongly urged the necessity of steps on the subject, and they had also commu- being taken to prevent the sale of intoxinicated the documents relating to the sub-cating liquors to Indians, and also to ject to the Colonial Secretary, in order that, in case of a dispute arising out of it which should be referred to him, he would understand the case. The blame did not rest with the Dominion Government, but rested entirely with those who were seeking to impose upon the Indians, as he believed the Provincial Government were doing. If the Indians of that Province should assert their rights, as they might do, that Government would find themselves in very serious difficulties, for in no part of the Province had the Indians been oven asked to extinguish their title to the lands, as they had been in other parts of the Dominion. The Indians were perfectly aware of what had taken place on the east side of the Rocky Mountains. They knew that their brethern in the other parts of the Dominion had been bargained with and paid for their lands, while they had received nothing except from five to ten acres per family, the Indians in the other parts of the Dominion receiving eighty acres per family. The money that this House had voted in any one year was more than the entire sum paid by the British Columbia Government during the entire time of its existence for the benefit of the Indians, and yet the hon. member for Victoria had endeavored to cast blame on the Dominion Government for not dealing liberally with the Indians. Mr. DECOSMOS said he cast as much blame upon the late Government as upon Hon. Mr. Mackenzie. establish schools amongst them, and model farms where they might learn how to carry on agricultural pursuits. With respect to a letter which had been written by a reverend gentleman, he might say that he could easily understand that in the district where that reverend gentleman resided there might be some desire on the part of the Indians to get more land for grazing purposes, and he was not aware that the Government of British Columbia had any objection whatever to give them more land for that purpose. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said that the Provincial Government had absolutely refused to grant the Indians lands equivalent to those held by Indians elsewhere, One of the missionaries laboring amongst the Indians in that Province had told him that when he called upon the Local Government and had a long discussion with them as to what they proposed to do, he was finally told by one of the members of the Government that they intended to act upon the motto, "Let him take who has the power, and let him keep who can.” This was not the principle the Indians themselves acted upon, or else the whites of British Columbia would have had more trouble in the settlement of that country. The hon. member for Victoria had stated that the Indians had only become discontented after that Province had been joined to the Confederation, but he would assure that hon. gentlemen that the evidence very |