indeed, the people of the North-West, He settled on their lands last summer. It being 6 o'clock, the House rose for to consider any practicable scheme for the Hon. Mr. LAIRD in resuming the debate, referred to another reservation of nearly two townships made by the late Government at the instance of the German Immigration Society of Montreal. Last year not a single immigrant under the auspices of that Society entered upon the reservation. Last spring correspondence was opened with the Society again, and the Secretary replied that they expected a number of immigrants from Europe, and that in fact he believed they were in the way. However, not a single immigrant entered upon the reservation last summer. Of all the attempts which had been made at colonization the Menonite colony was the only one that had been successful. A large number of them had arrived and Hon. Mr. Baird. settlement of Manitoba and the NorthWest with Canadians from the United States as well as European and other emigrants. He him Mr. TROW said he could testify to the truth of the statements of the Minister of the Interior with reference to the total failure of those companies organized to colonize a portion of Manitoba. He considered the EMERSON scheme was a perfect fraud on the community. self had been offered land in that reservation at the rate of $75 for one-eighth of an acre, merely taking Mr. EMERSON'S writing that when he obtained the title to the properity he would transfer it. Numerous lots were sold on these conditions. That reservation contained four townships of the best lands in the Province. He noticed that Mr. ROLESTAN took credit for settling upwards of two hundred immigrants. He met that gentleman on the prairie with about seven or eight families, and he told him (Mr.T.) that it was impossible for him to bring out more, as he had no preparation made to keep them over winter. There was no analogy between the emigrants that the hon. member for Terrebonne referred to and the Menonites. The former class had left this country of their own accord, and it did not involve a great expense for them to come back, and he was happy to say that some 14,000 Ład returned during the past year. On the other hand the Menonites were coming a great distance, and if once settled they would be likely to remain, and they were first-class settlers. adverted to the position of the Menonites in Europe, and to the fact that wherever He they went they were the best settlers a country could have. Some thirteen hundred of them had immigrated to Manitoba during the past year. He had the pleasure of meeting a good many of them, and they were perfectly satisfied with the country and with their condition. He doubted whether Canadians from the United States, if settled on the same lands, would be equally content. He hoped the Government would take steps to prevent land monopolies in Manitoba, which was the greatest curse that could afflict that country. There were two sections in each township reserved for the Hudson Bay Company. He was persuaded it would have been much better had that company's claim been purchased outright instead of reserving to them large portions of the land, which retarded settlement. At present some settlers in coming to Winnipeg had to travel through these unoccupied sections held by the Hudson Bay Company. With reference to the proposed loan to the Menonites he was as certain as he was of anything that it would all be repaid principal and interest, for their word was as good as their bond, and moreover the Government were offered the very best security-the security of men in the County of Waterloo worth each from $50,000 to $60,000. He was not opposed to a grant being given to promote the return to this country of Canadians in the United States, for he believed that the Government could not spend money to better advantage than in encouraging immigration. they would remain in this country. He thought some further explanations should be given with respect to the lands that were said by the Minister of the Interior to be locked up, because it was very desirable to have all the lands in Manitoba open to the choice of settlers. Mr. PLUMB, while not objecting to the loan to the Menonites, expressed his surprise that the land monopolies referred to by gentlemen opposite should be allowed to exist. Mr. ROSS (Middlesex) said he was somewhat surprised to notice the amend ment submitted by the member for Terrebonne. He had thought, judging from the tone of the press, which supported the political views represented on the Opposition side of the House, that the party was still a party of Union and Progress; but here was a resolution of the Government asking for an appropriation of $100,000 for immigration purposes, and yet from the members on the opposite side of the House, who were supposed to belong to the party of Progress, a retrogressive amendment was moved, asking the House to vote only $50,000 for purposes of that kind. As he understood the resources and needs of this country, he was thoroughly convinced there was no policy the Government could adopt which would prove more advantageous to this country, and more calculated to develop its resources, and more on which the progress and prosperity of the Dominion more depends than on a liberal, progressive immigration policy. If we look at the history of the United States, a country that has given us a good example in respect to Mr. ROCHESTER was very much this matter, we found they had settled pleased to see this sum in the estimates to their land, developed their resources and aid the Menonites to come to this country, become a powerful nation, very much for he believed they were an excellent because they were liberal in respect to class of immigrants. They were agricul- immigration matters. We were told by turalists and that was the class Mani- statisticians that, if the United States toba required, and the French Cana- had suspended their immigration dians who went to the United policy as far back as 1830, their States were not generally speaking present population, instead of being agriculturalists, but most of them were engaged in manufacturing pursuits. However, he did not mean to say that they were not a desirable class of people to have in this country, and he would be glad if the Government could devise some practical plan to induce them to return. There were, however, serious difficulties in the way of granting them public money, because there would be no guarantee that Mr. Trow. 40,000,000 would be something like 14,000,000. If we, possessing such large undeveloped resources, with such fertile tracts of land in the North-West, stated by the member for South Perth at 2,700,000 square miles, with Manitoba, yet unsettled, embracing 9,000,000 acres,-wished to occupy these wild lands, we must not adopt the policy of the member för Terrebonne, but we must rather urge, I even this present Government, that is repaiḍ, it would be well to reduce the disposed to be liberal in matters of that matter to an arithmetical calculation. In kind, to increase their grants for immigra- loaning $100,000 for this purpose the tion purposes, and, if possible, secure a annual interest which would be a loss to larger proportion of immigration to this the country if the loan were not repaid country than has been obtained in years would amount to $5,000. Let the House gone by. He wished to call attention to now observe what the country would this feature of the question, viz., that the realize from that immigration. Suppose difficulties in obtaining immigrants are 900 families came to this country, comgreater now than they were some years ago. prising 4,000 individuals. Each individual The social condition of the people in the old pays to the revenue of the country an countries from which the immigrants come, average of $6, so that, by settling 4,000 has improved; the agricultural classes are individuals in Manitoba, we would realize more comfortable, the cities are not so $24,000 of annual revenue, which would overcrowded, and wages are high: hence be placed against a loss for interest on the the necessity of a more liberal policy than loan of $5,000. That reduced the matter that adopted some years ago, if we wish to figures, and it appeared clear that the to secure a fair share of immigration to proposed loan would be a good investment Canada. This was abundantly shown by to the country. He wished to make this the difficulties experienced in attracting general remark in regard to immigration immigrants to this country at the present -he trusted so long as this Government time. The South American Republics, asked him to support them in any measures New Zealand, and the Australian colonies they might bring before the House, he were offering bonuses to immigrants in hoped they always would be prepared to order to induce them to take ship for those adopt liberal measures in the matter of countries, and the Governments of Ontario immigration, and by a prudent expendi and Quebec offered similar bonuses; and ture of our public money to see that we so the Government of the Dominion could obtained as settlers upon our Canadian not be less progressive and enterprising soil the best of the surplus population of than the Governments of those Provinces. the Old World. There was an abundance This view was further sustained when we❘ of land in Manitoba open for settlement, considered the results of the immigration and before many years he trusted that to the United States, with all the advan- country would be as well settled tages they offered. The number of immi- as any part of Ontario. The Government grants that arrived at New York last year were entitled to the support of the House was only 147,620, while in the year pre- in submitting the resolutions which had vious, 1873, the number reached 268,288, | been placed on the table. so that there had been a falling off in one year of 120,000, simply for the reason he had given. Now, the Government proposed a tangible and very satisfactory system of immigration. They proposed appropriating a specific sum for a specific purpose, which accomplish the end for which it Was designed. Under the ordinary system the expenditure for immigration purposes might or might not succeed. We send agents out, who, by disseminating information, might succeed in sending immigrants into Canada, but by this system the House would be sure, from information they had obtained, to accomplish the object for which it was appropriated. From the views expressed by the hon. members for South Waterloo and South Perth, there was no doubt that the loan would be fully repaid. But suppose it was not Mr. Ross. was sure to Mr. DYMOND said the hon. member for South Perth was perfectly correct when he alluded to the large German emigration to Pennsylvania, under the auspices of WILLIAM PENN, as being to a considerable extent analogous to that which we are now welcoming to Manitoba. Long before PENN settled in Pennsylvania he visited Germany on two or three occasions, and there inspired with his own desire to found a free colony in the New World a large number of the members of pious German sects who followed him to America, and it was those very men who laid in Pennsylvania the foundation of that great movement against human slavery which resulted in the overthrow of that institution in our own day. He had no doubt that the same love of liberty and peace characterized the Menonites in Manitoba that was so distinguishing а feature of those who took shelter under the broad brim of WILLIAM PENN. He did not, however, rise to say much with reference to the Menonites, but to offer a few general observations on the position of the emigration question at this time, and to say that he considered that no wiser step could have been taken by the Government than to place the management of the emigration movement in Great Britain in charge of a gentleman of such large intelligence and high social position as our present agent, Mr. JENKINS. That gentleman was thoroughly in accord with the great laboring classes at home, which was the first essential of any representative of this country in Great Britain. If, seven or eight years ago Canada had been represented in Great Britain by a gentleman of Mr. JENKINS' capacity we would not now be comparing 39,000 with 50.000 immigrants, but would have probably been welcoming 100,000 souls to our shores annually. No man could estimate more highly than he (Mr. DYMOND) did the honest desire to serve his country exhibited by the hon. member for Compton. When in office that hon. gentleman was kind enough to converse with him on several occasions as one who was acquainted with public opinion in the Old Country, with a view of obtaining from him (Mr. DYMOND) any suggestion on the subject of emigration. He would venture to say that if that hon. gentleman had been supported when he first entered office, as his successor had been, the results would have been far more satisfactory to himself. During the first two or three years after Confederation there were great opportunities of adding to our population from the people of the Old Country. They all remembered the period of distress that prevailed in 1866. Numerous benevolent societies sprung into existence at that epoch, and men were assisted by thousands to our colonies; but that was to a very large extent an indiscriminate emigration, composed of those who, if not actually of the pauper class, were but a few degrees removed from it-they were the poor struggling classes of the cities. Now, if Canada had possessed in the Mother Coun try a gentleman-not merely such an officer as Mr. DIXON, who was an honorable and industrious man, but whose whole ideas were limited to his office-but a man with something like plenary authority to make Mr. Dymond. arrangements in all directions for the promotion of emigration, then we would have had far more to boast of than we have to-day. It would be remembered by the hon. member for Compton and his friends, that about the time he entered office there appeared in a paper, supporting the late Government-the Montreal Gazette-a most scathing criticism upon the inertness and mismanagement of the Immigration Department. He was aware that the hon. gentleman, the late Minister of Agriculture, effected considerable reforms, and that emigration received from that moment a certain stimulus. But the credit of that was not entirely due to the hon. gentleman. A new government, with broad and enlightened views, had entered into power in Ontario; from that moment it was certain that a liberal emigration policy would be pursued by the Upper Province, and it was necessary therefore, if the Government at Ottawa would not lag behind, that they should offer the right hand to the Ontario Administration and assist them in carrying out an enlightened immigration policy in the interest of the whole Dominion. With respect to Mr. JENKINS; he had been attacked on account of certain speeches he had made. If we could induce the people of Great Britain to think about Canada, three-fourths of the work would be done. Six or seven years ago, when he (Mr. DYMOND) was in England, Canada was almost a sealed book to the great mass of the people. The most absurd stories were told about this country, and even educated men had the most extraordinary impressions concerning it. He remembered a person of very considerable education who expressed the opinion respecting gentlemen who had been in the country twenty-five years, that he was probably by that time quite equal to conversing in the Indian language. But Mr. JENKINS moving from city to city, not as had been incorrectly suggested during the time he was required in the London office but during the winter months when there was little doing in emigration matters at the metropolis, gathered together the men of Manchester. Liverpool, Birmingham and the great towns, and his speeches being reported through a daily press that had an aggregate circulation probably of from 500,000 to 600,000 copies per day, we could not exaggerate the benefit which those speeches might confer on Canada. An important speech delivered some time ago in Toronto, by HIS EXCELLENCY the GOVERNOR GENERAL had been copied into all the newspapers in England, that too was the speech of a man of intellect and education whose words were listened to with respect not merely because they were eloquent, but because they described what people wanted to know, the social and political condition of Canada. It was not simply by the labouring classes, but also by the aid of those who called themselves the upper classes in England that we were to make Canada known on the other side and obtain the co-operation of the British people. With respect to colonization schemes and the various proposals to bring out colonies to Manitoba, he deemed it to be of the utmost importance that our representative should possess judgment and ability, and occupy a sufficiently high position in the country to influence in the right direction proposals of that kind. There was nothing about which men were more Quixotic, nothing in which men were more likely to fail, than in conducting emigration schemes. The reason why the Menonite colonies had been successful was to be found in the fact that the people were bound together by religious and social ties, and stood shoulder to shoulder in every difficulty. If the Government loaned $100,000 to the Menonites of Manitoba, the whole community wes pledged morally to repay it. If the hon. member for Terrebonne could bring forward a colony composed of people who possessed the same qualities; who would afford the same evidence as that given by the Menonites, that the immigration would be successful, then every hon. member would 'be anxious to assist him. But he (Mr. DYMOND) did not believe that, except here and there under peculiarly able management and peculiarly favorable conditions, colonization schemes would succeed. Immigration must be made, to a large extent, a matter of voluntary effort. We must throw open the country to individual immigration. We must teach people what the conditions of success are, we had got to provide them with the necessary machinery for reaching their destination, and if we only kept Canada well before the outside world, and the people of Great Britain, no doubt, many of our errors and omissions of the past would be forgotten, and Mr. Dymond. S we would reap an ample reward for every dollar we expended. Hon. Mr. HOLTON moved in amendment to the amendment: "That all the words after 'that' in the amendment be left out, and the following be inserted, The following words be added to the motion: But this House will cheerfully assent to any measure which may be proposed by the Government to encourage the settlement of native Canadians now living in the United States on the waste lands of the Dominion.' He said there could be no objection on the part of the House to express its readiness to entertain favorably any proposition submitted by the Government, looking to the encouragement of the settlement of the waste lands of the Dominion by native Canadians now residents of the United States. He thought the proposition of the hon. member for Terrebonne to reduce the appropriation under discussion was an exceedingly illogical one. He could have understood the force of the argument that might be urged in favor of rejecting the vote. It was a novelty no doubt in our Legislature to advance money for such a purpose. The object, however, was admitted on all hands to be a praiseworthy and advantageous one, and therefore to reduce the appropriation sought by the Government, was illogical in the last degree. He had hoped that the member for Terrebonne, yielding to what appeared to be the sense of the House, would have withdrawn the motion on receiving an expression of the opinion of the Government of their readiness to consider the claims of the parties to whom the hon. member for Terrebonne referred ; but as the hon. member did not see fit to do so, he, (Mr. HOLTON) submitted to the House that proposition, which he held to be infinitely superior to the amendment, because it left the appropriation now under consideration untouched. Mr. PALMER thought the amount proposed to be loaned to the Menonites should be appropriated. The Government expended an excessive sum for Military purposes, and the Military camps had denioralized many of our young men. Mr. MASSON said the Minister of the Interior, in discussing this question, had stated that the township system in the North West was a failure. Nevertheles ; the Government did not abandon it, and |