Hon. Mr. TUPPER observed that this Mr. DOMVILLE said that as this was case clearly came under the exception a matter of common justice he would specified in the rule of the House which appeal to the House to allow the rules to allowed a petition to be immediately dealt be suspended. He moved-"That the with. He proceeded to point out the rules be suspended, and that the petition urgency of the present case, stating that of FRASER REYNOLDS & Co., be now very grave charges had been made against received and read.” the petitioner which were now being examined by a committee, and he now petitioned to be heard before that committee by counsel. Hon. Mr. HOLTON said the hon. gentleman was out of order in discussing the merits of this case. He should confine himself strictly to the point of order. Hon. Mr. TUPPER said he was con fining himself to the point of order. He was showing the urgency of the present case, which would bring it within the rule allowing immediate action to be taken upon it. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE.-There has been no notice given of that motion ! Mr. MASSON said he desired to raise the point as to whether a motion could be objected to before it had been read the SPEAKER. He referred to the by motion he had made the other day on the subject of the Menonite Loan, and stated that in that case his motion had been objected to and ruled out of order before it was read by the SPEAKER. He wished to have that point settled. Hon. Mr. HOLTON said it was out of order to refer to a previous debate. Mr. MASSON said the hon. gentleman Hon. J. H. CAMERON said the ques-was not acting with his usual fairness. It tion of urgency was one to be decided by the SPEAKER. If the SPEAKER decided that the present case was one of urgency then it would be in order for the House to deal with it at once. But if he decided to the contrary, the ordinary notice would have to be given. He cited to the House three precedents in the English Parliament in support of his position. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said the precedents quoted by the hon. gentleman were not to the point because there was no personal grievance complained of in the present instance. Mr. SPEAKER said his impression was that the question of urgency did not arise at the present moment. The House was not in fact at the present moment in possession of the petition presented by the hon. member for Kings, and would not be technically in possession of it until two days had elapsed from the day it was presented, unless the House agreed unanimously to suspend the rules and order the petition to be received at once. The practice in our Parliament in this respect diffiered he believed from the practice of the Imperial Parliament. In the Imperial Parliament petitions were presented and received upon the same day, but under our rules two days had to elapse between the presentation and the reception. For this reason he did not think the precedents cited by the hon. member for Cardwell were in point. Hon. Mr. Tupper. was a matter of some importance to the minority of the House to know whether when they presented a motion it could be ruled out of order before it was read by the SPEAKER, and consequently be prevented from going upon the journals of the House; and it was that point which he now wished to be cleared up. Mr. SPEAKER read the motion of the hon. member for Kings, and said that as his attention had been called to the fact that no notice of this motion had been given he must rule it out of order. Hon. Mr. TUPPER said the motion could be received by the unanimous consent of the House, and it did not appear that any one had objected to it. Hon. Mr. HOLTON said the Premier had stated that no notice of this motion had been given, and that was equivalent to an objection; therefore the motion could not be received. With regard to the point raised by the hon. member for Terrebonne, he observed it was contrary to the practice of this House to allow every motion that was ruled out of order, no matter how obviously ot of order it was, to go upon the journals of the House. With reference to the other matter referred to by that hon. gentleman he was prepared to deal fairly with the hon. gentleman upon that subject whenever he brought it up in a. proper manner before the House. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE remarked with reference to the statement that because a motion was made by any hon. gentleman it must therefore go upon the journals of the House, that if that were done it might lead to very offensive motions appearing on our journals simply because some member might choose to propose it. That practice had not been followed in this House and he was satisfied | it was not permissible either here or in England. Mr. MASSON said it was of the utmost importance that the minority should be protected by allowing their motions, which might be ruled out of order on account of referring to money matters, to go upon the journals of the House. If that practice was not followed, then no member of the House could make any motion with reference to the expenditure of public money without moving a vote of non-confidence in the Government, or else moving to reduce the amount. The Minister of Public Works was mistaken when he said that motions which had been ruled out of order had never appeared upon our journals. He (Mr. MASSON) remembered that in 1870 no less than three such motions were so entered. Hon. Mr. CAUCHON said the hon. gentleman was altogether mistaken. If he would look at the journals of the English Parliament he would not find in them a solitary motion which was declared out of order. Such motions, with the decisions of the SPEAKER thereon, were to be found in Hansard. Any member could put his opinions on the journals of the House by adopting the proper mode. Mr. MASSON said he had moved amendments to the tariff in 1870, which were ruled out of order by the SPEAKER, but which could be seen in the journals of the House. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said there was a difference between those amend ments and the motion before the House— the former were out of order because of something they contained; it was the puttting of this motion that was out of order. Hon. Mr. SPEAKER explained that the motion Was not put from the Chair. On reading it he declared it out of order and returned it to the mover, not because some one said it was out of order, but because he (Mr. SPEAKER) considered it should not be put. Hon. Mr. Mackenzie. Mr. YOUNG quoted MAY, page 259, contending that the SPEAKER had taken the right course in ruling the motion out of order when he saw it was informal. BILLS INTRODUCED. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time: Mr. SCHULTZ-To incorporate the North-Western Manufacturing Co. Mr. JETTE—To grant further powers to the Montreal, Chambly and Sorel Railway Company, and change its name. Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT-To amend the Act respecting the Public Debt and the Raising of Loans authorized by Parliament. Mr. MOSS-To legalize and confirm certain agreements made between the Niagara Falls International Bridge Co., The Niagara Falls Suspension Bridge Co., and the Great Western Railway Co. INSURANCE COMPANIES. Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT introduced a Bill to amend the Act respecting insurance. This measure, he said, would be referred to the Committee on Banking and would be conand Commerce, them in its details. sidered by to make The object of the Bill was licenses renewable from year to year on a company's complying with the requirements of the Act. It also imposed certain restrictions on Mutual Insurance Companies in order that when their business was extended beyond the limits of the Province in which they were incorporated they might be placed on the same footing as other companies. The Government desired to institute a supervision and superintendence over such companies, and to create an officer to be known as the Superintendent of Insurance, whose duty it shall be to enquire into the solvency of Insurance Companies doing business in the Dominion. It was the intention of the Government in the first place to revise the Acts referring to Life as well as Fire and Marine Insurance Companies, but on full consideration of the matter it was determined to do no more at present than extend this supervision to the former. The Life Companies would not be otherwise meddled with in this respect--they would be expected to submit their affairs for inspection to the Superintendent of Insurance on the same terms and condi tions as the Fire and Marine Companies. | the right direction. He had suggested the There were certain minor details which they proposed to consider more carefully in the Committee on Banking and Com merce. Mr. YOUNG asked the hon. Minister of Finance if he proposed to interfere in any way with companies that are doing business in a single Province, or if the Bill was intended to apply simply to those companies whose business extends throughout the Dominion or more than a single Province. Considerable interest was being taken in the Bill by the people; he had himself received several letters in regard to it, asking for information on the point he had raised. adoption of that course a suggestion which The Bill was read the first time. Mr. BUNSTER asked when the Government intend to lay the printed papers before the House relating to any new arrangements made with the Government of British Columbia regarding the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway. Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT-As a general thing I may say that it is not the intention of the Government to interfere with Local Corporations, incorporated by the Provincial Legislatures, and doing business within the limits of their own Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-The GovProvince; but as the question of Insur-ernment have nothing to do with printing ance is one among those specially rele- of papers. The Government has laid the gated to the care of the Dominion Parlia- manuscript on the table, and the printing ment, I am not prepared to say that in rests with the Printing Committee; I some respects it may not be found neces- understand, however, they are printed, or sary to extend superintendence over them. almost completed. Our general object, however, is to deal with those companies only that do business throughout the Dominion. Mr. YOUNG was glad to learn that the Bill was to be confined to companies doing business throughout the Dominion generally. He did not think it would be advisable under present circumstances to interfere with the Mutual Companies in the Province of Ontario whose business was confined to that Province, and which as a general rule had worked well. Some fear had been entertained by those companies as to what legislation the Dominion Government proposed, and they would no doubt hear with satisfaction that the Bill did not refer to them. There are, however, a number of Mutual Companies in Ontario who were carrying on business in other Provinces, and it was absolutely necessary in the public interest that supervision should be exercised over their manner of conducting business; their responsibilities were so great that an inspector should be appointed whose duty it would be to ascertain whether their business was conducted so as to insure the safety of the insured. The inspection of Life Companies he considered was a step in Hon. Mr. Carmeright. CLAIMS OF CONTRACTORS ON THE INTER- Mr. PALMER asked whether it is the intention of the Government to take any, and if so, what measures for the settlement of the claims of contractors on the several sections of the Intercolonial Railway. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-All the claims of the contractors are being settled as they come up. SALARIES OF JUDGES OF COUNTY COURTS. Mr. BLAKE asked whether the Government intends to propose any re-adjustment of the salaries of the Judges of the County Courts. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-I have had an informal correspondence with the Government of Ontario with relation to the salaries of the County Judges. Complaints have come from all quarters of the inadequacy of the present salaries. But we also found that there were more County Judges than seemed to be necessary to perform the duties devolving upon those officials, and it has been a question with the Ontario Government whether a lesser number of Judges could not discharge those duties, in which case the same amount that is now disbursed for salaries might be disbursed among a smaller number. If such an arrangement as that can be carried out, it is the intention of the Government to consider the propriety of making some addition to the salaries of the County Judges. SYDNEY AND EAST BAY CANAL. Mr. MACDONALD (Cape Breton) asked whether it is the intention of the Government to make provision this year for the building of the Sydney and East Bay Canal in Nova Scotia, as per engineer's report. SCHOOLS FOR "INDIANS. Mr. GOUDGE asked whether it is the intention of the Government to establish a school or schools among the Indians of Nova Scotia similar to that established in some of the other Provinces? Hon. Mr. LAIRD The Government generally aid to some extent Indian schools, provided an application is made showing there is a probability of having a good average attendance of scholars main tained. RAILWAY COMPANIES' BY-LAWS, &c. Mr. DELORME moved for an Address to HIS EXCELLENCY the GOVERNOR GENERAL for copies of returns made by the different Railway Companies of their by-laws, and especially for the rules and regula tions for the management of the Grand Trunk Railway of Canada, by which their rates for passengers and traffic have been increased during the last six weeks. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE With respect to the hon. gentleman's motion I have to say that I am afraid there have not been regular returns made of the fares and regulations as provided by the General Railway Act; but it is the intention of the Government to exact a stricter compliance with the terms of the act in future, and to have the tariffs of fares and rates sanctioned before they go into operation. While the motion may pass, I do not think there are many papers to bring down in connection with it. The motion was carried. THE WELLAND CANAL. Mr. NORRIS moved for an "Address to HIS EXCELLENCY the GOVERNOR GEN Hon. Mr. Mackenzie. ERAL for copies of all estimates and reports of the engineers in charge of the Welland Canal, showing the cost of removing the rock bottom at Raney's Bend with a view to obtaining Lake Erie level." ¡He said it was a well-known fact that the streams of water which years ago were sufficient to feed the Welland Canal were rapidly drying up. The water of the Grand River which was the feeder of the canal, had for years past been diminishing as the country was cleared up, and, indeed, during the last ten years there had been an inadequate supply of water for manufacturing purposes. For years past the country had been promised that the Lake Erie level should be obtained to feed the canal. During the last two or three years he had himself frequently seen vessels grounded in the canal for six or eight hours at a time, and under these circumstances the Government should lose no time in obtaining the Lake Erie level, especially when the engineers' reports would show that it could comparatively easily be effected. In 1867 the Commis sioner stated that since 1850 the Port Colborne approach from the junction had been gradually enlarged and deepened to obtain the Lake Erie level with a draught of ten feet of water, which object was nearly achieved. The engineer on the work reported to the Commissioner in the same year that, with the exception of a strip of solid rock, consisting of about 1,000 cubic yards, and the removal of some loose rock in the rock cutting, and some eighteen inches of other material in other portions of the canal between Raney's Bend and the lock at Port Colborne, the excavation was nearly completed. The Engineer and Superintendent of the Welland Canal reported in 1869 that the operations for the purpose of obtaining the Lake Erie level was nearly completed, with the exception of a strip of rock and some other work, and estimated the total cost at $82,000. Mr. PAGE in his report of the 8th June, 1869, said that the failure of the Grand River at certain seasors to furnish the necessary supply had rendered the lowering of the water to the level of Lake Erie, a matter which could not judiciously be much longer delayed. He (Mr. NORRIS) was afraid that if the ensuing summer season was as dry as during the past two or three years, vessels would not be able to pass through the canal unless some new arrangements were made. When the canal | the end of 1876, as the Premier had stated. was first constructed, and during many It might be completed by that time between years afterwards, mills and factories were Thorold and Lake Ontario, but if the Goverected on its banks and were supplied by ernment persisted in their determination the Government with water-power. At to make Port Colborne the entrance of that time it was never anticipated that the canal they would do well if they finished the supply of water would be so largely the whole work by the end of 1880. diminished. To such an extent was this the case that at the present time these establishments only had water one-half of the time. In 1869 or 1870, while the late Government was in power, Mr. BROWN was employed to remove the rock at Raney's Bend, but owing to an accident happening to the dam, the works were suspended, and they have not since been proceeded with. He hoped the work would be resumed by the Government at the commencement of next winter, when navigation had closed, and would be completed at as early a date as possible. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said instructions had been given to use every possible expedition in getting the water of Lake Erie into the canal. On the particular point referred to by the hon. gentleman there had been an expenditure up to the 31st December of about $140,000. The entire amount of the contract for that work was about half a million. Peculiar difficulties had been encountered in prosecuting the work, as the hon. gentleman knew, but he (Mr. MACKENZIE) hoped to have the whole of the remaining work that had to be done to obtain a depth of twelve feet put under contract at an early day. He would not say anything about the other work at present because it was quite possible that he might have something to say on concurrence of the item in the estimates relating to that canal in the way of giving some more specific information in answer to the inquiries of the hon. member for Monck. Mr. McCALLUM said that in 1866 the engineer reported that the work upon which the Premier had just stated $140,000 had been spent could be done for $60,000. He read an extract from the engineer's report on that point, and proceeded to say that he had urged this question upon the Government year after year, and he thought the mill owners and others living along the canal had good grounds of complaint against the Government for their dilatoriness in prosecuting the work. He did not believe the work could be completed by Mr. Norris. Mr. SCATCHERD said the work on the Welland Canal was of as much importance to the whole Dominion as it was to the people living in its neighborhood, and it should not be considered in regard to the interest of any particular individuals but to the interest of the whole country. The expenditure upon this work should be made in the interest of the whole Dominion and not in the interest of a few mill to the statement of the Minister of Public owners living on the canal, who according Works were only entitled by their leases to the surplus water. A great many complaints had been made that the canal was not deep enough, but he submitted that the House must be guided in that matter by the opinions of the engineers of the Government who had only the public interest to serve in preference to the opinions of those who had private and sectional interests to serve, and who had no professional knowledge whatever upon the subject. It was time that this whole question should be regarded from a Dominion point of view rather than from the view of mill owners and others who had their private interests to serve. Mr. PLUMB said the hon. member for Lincoln had large experience in the navigation of the Welland Canal, and it was not right to attribute selfish motives to the hon. gentleman in bringing this matter before the House. The mill owners on the understanding that the Government would furnish a good supply of water had expended a large amount of money in building up valuable properties on the line of the canal. Before the trade of the Lower St. Lawrence was developed, the Welland Canal depended largely for its business on these very mills. question should receive the careful consideration of this House. The Mr. NORRIS denied that he brought up this question from any selfish motives; he spoke entirely in the public interest. If the canal should run dry, as he very much feared it would next summer, the whole country, and especially Montreal, |