the total abolition of postage upon them would help to elevate and improve them, and thus tend to increase the intelligence and morality of the people. Hon. D. A. MACDONALD said the hon. member for North Hastings and the hon. member for South Waterloo had attacked the free delivery of letters in cities to aid their arguments against imposing a small tax upon newspapers. He would dispose of the objections to the free delivery system, by reading the House the result of it in Montreal since its adoption on November 14th. The number of drop letters in the first week was only 4,961, the next week 6,000, the next 8,000, and it continued to increase until, as shown by the last return received by the Department, it reached 16,365 for one week. He made this statement to show that before he consented to introduce the free delivery in large cities he studied it carefully with his able assistants. They came to the con clusion, from information they had, that the day was not far distant when the free delivery in cities would be self sustaining. He was now in a position to state that it had exceeded their most sanguine expectations, and that he believed at the end of the first year the local postage that they would get through the delivery of letters would about pay the whole expenses of free delivery. With regard not Mr. OLIVER expressed his gratification that the Postmaster General had agreed to consolidate all the postal laws into one Act, but he regretted that the postage on newspapers was retained. It had been stated that the abolition of this of this postage would postage would reduce the revenue of the Post Office Department; but if it was right to reduce the revenue by providing for the free delivery of letters in cities, and the free transport of the public documents of the various Provinces, why should not the press of the country receive a like benefit? It was stated by the Postmaster General that the free delivery of letters in cities would cause a loss to the revenue of $45,000, but he (Mr. OLIVER) from the best information he could gather, calculated it would be considerably more. The loss that would be occasioned by allowing the public documents of the Provinces to go free would be about $20,000; the two losses amounting to over $65,000, while all that would be derived from newspaper postage would be at the utmost only $25,000. Now, if the people of the cities were to have their letters delivered free, why should not the Government as a set-off grant to the press the abolition of newspaper postage. It was stated by the leader of the Government that the postage on drop letters in cities would pay free for the delivery, but that postage was part of the general Post Office revenue, and should Hon. D. A. MACDONALD said it therefore be used for the benefit of the would take many a year before we could whole country. It was also stated that become as perfect as England. He was the amount of postage on newspapers was following the example of England in the small, but when it was placed exclusively management of the Post Office as rapidly on one class it was large enough to be as he could. The improvement in the oppressive. They had a paper in his own postal service was a step in that direction. town, Woodstock, that had a circulation He had taken a less population for free of 3,500, and the amount the publisher delivery in this country than they had in of that paper would have to pay the United States. It would be extended under the proposed regulations would to London and Kingston each of which be $175 а year. It was use- had a population less than twenty thouless to say that the publisheas could increase their subscription price, because any one that was acquainted with the business knew that that could not be done without causing a reduction in the circulation. He trusted it was not yet too late for the Postmaster General to amend his Bill in the direction he had indicated. to the objection that it was Mr. BOWELL-What do they do in sand. The system would be put in operation as rapidly possible. It was hardly fair to attack the system while it was yet in its infancy. The experience of England and the United States was sufficient justification for its adoption in Canada. With regard to the newspaper postage, he thought when a reduction was made from a yearly States, they would not undertake to col- charge of 20 cents per paper, or 4 cents per pound, to one cent per pound, the Government were conferring a boon on the country. The publishers would pay a trifling sum for handling such a large mass of newspapers and making it much easier to handle them, and he was satisfied that before a year or two publishers would find the circulation of their newspapers so largely increased by the removal of this postage that their gain would more than counterbalance the loss. The whole country complained of the nuisance of newspaper postage. The department must have something for handling the newspapers. To meet the objection that the Bill was coming into operation too soon, it was proposed to extend the time to six months hence. In the United States that much time was not given. Prepayment was made compulsory on the 1st January on all mailable matter. No later than last night he received a communication from the Postmaster of New York, stating that: "The circulation of publicaions has increased considerably, owing to the change in the postage rate, and particularly the manner of prepayment, and the publishers are well satisfied throughout. The service is giving most abundant was a step in the right direction, satisfaction, the detail and annoyance and that the country would find, inseparable from the old plan being entirely after having some experience of it, avoided." That was from the Postmaster that the Government were justified in of the State of New York. He (Mr. bringing in this measure. MACDONALD) had another communication saying that there was a great increase in mailable matter, although the new system had only commenced on the 1st of JanuWith reference to under-paid letters, they would not be returned to the parties sending them. It did not seem to be generally understood how newspapers were to be mailed. It was proposed that all papers should go by weight. The half cent postage only referred to transient newspapers, or those not sent from the office of publication. It made no difference whether a publisher mailed say fifty copies to one post office or to fifty different post offices. They would in either case be put into the scales and the postage charged by the pound. Under the convention with the United States, the Department was not prepared to forward letters unless they were fully paid. Letters ary. weight and insufficiently paid would be returned to the sender. In the convention with the United Hon D. A. Macdo raid. Mr. PICKARD said if the effect of this measure would be to increase the amount of mail matter, adding to the weight to be carried by the contractors, he would like to know whether it would increase the cost to the country of carrying the mails. Hon. D. A. MACDONALD replied that the contractors were bound to carry the mails that were delivered to them. There was no weight mentioned in the He believed the contracts with them. effect of this measure would be to increase the bulk of the mails, but the contractors must carry them at the contract rates. Mr. DYMOND said if the supporters of the Ministry had nothing worse to defend than the acts of a Government which was giving us a free delivery of letters in our cities, a reduction of 75 per cent on newspapers, and a postal convention with the United States, furnishing the freeest possible communication between two great nations, speaking the same language on this continent, they would return to this well worth while for newspaper proprietors to use these fifteen cents in increasing the circulation of their publications. He did not mean by that the mere profit on the newspaper which was trifling, but every additional newspaper brought with it additional advertising. The Postmaster General had given a satisfactory reply to the question why free delivery was not extended to towns and villages as well as to cities, where free delivery would pay for itself. He hoped the day would come when every man in the land would have his letters brought to his door, as in the old country. This measure was characterized by very wise liberalty and showed a sound practical knowledge of their business on the part of those who had devised this measure, and due regard for economy in the public expenditure for which they were entitled to the thanks and confidence of the House. House in as safe a condition as when they last appealed to the people. If there was one act for which the Government was to be commended, it was for taking a broad and liberal view with regard to the postal service of the country. It was perfectly absurd to spend $100,000,000 or $150,000,000 on building a great railroad, to spend hundreds of thousands in constructing telegraph lines, and in making and deepening canals in all directions, if we did not at the same time improve the channel for the current of free thought and information in the country. At the same time it must be remembered that the postal service was still entailing loss upon the country, and likely to do so for many years to come. Therefore, while we might desire to enjoy the luxury of cheaper postage, either for newspapers or letters, it might be that the enjoyment of that luxury would be imprudent. When a lady once wrote to SYDNEY Mr. WILKES said it was a mistake to SMITH Suggesting that he should advocate say that free delivery in cities was a tax a war in aid of certain weak nationalities, on those who resided in the country for the he replied "It is true that to go to war benefit of the urban population. It was simply in such a cause would be a luxury, but it giving further service for the same price is the business of a prudent, sensible man, It would be as unreasonable as to say that to guard against luxury." In carrying out the residents of places where there was liberal measures for the extension of the only a daily or tri-weekly mail was postal service, the mechanical labor of the delivered were paying for the two or three department should be reduced, and when mails delivered every day in large cities. the Postmaster General was charged The Postmaster General's reply on this with endeavoring to avoid trouble question would be satisfactory to the House. at Ottawa ΟΙ elsewhere, he was He (Mr. WILKES) had taken the trouble merely charged with exercising the to refer to the experience in England from truest economy. With reference to 1839 to 1873. The number of letters supthe newspaper postage, he believed that posed to have been delivered in 1839 was any trade in this country would be delighted four per head of the population of England to contract with the Government for the and Wales, or say one per head of the delivery of the whole of its products at the United Kingdom. In 1873 the number same rate. The store-keeper was glad to for England and Wales was 32, or 13 per pay $2 a week to a boy to deliver parcels head for the Kingdom, making an increase to his customers, yet some hon. gentlemen of thirteen times from 1840 to 1873. Hon. complained because publishers were charged gentlemen would remember that cheap at the rate of one dollar per week for the postage and free delivery were introduced delivery of the entire products of their within this period. He did not hesitate week's business. Having some little ac- to say the increase was largely due to free quaintance with the subject he believed that delivery in London and the large metrothe circulation of every newspaper would politan districts. It was reasonable to increase to a large extent, provided the expect that a similar result would attend article supplied deserved the approval of the introduction of the system into Canada. the public, by this reduction in postage. He wished to know what provision was People in the country districts thought a made for compulsory pre-payment of posgreat deal of very little money, and a tage. reduction of twenty cents a year on the price of a newspaper would be a reason with many of them for taking it. It would be Mr. Dymond. Hon. D. A. MACDONALD-If there is a stamp upon a letter, even if that letter is over weight, the over weight will be charged; if there is no stamp at all, the letter will be sent to the Dead Letter Office. Mr. WILKES said this would be received with general satisfaction. If the postage were left optional, and the public. could pre-pay or not, it would entail a great deal of difficulty and decrease the amount of postal matter forwarded. Hon. members who condemned the newspaper postage seemed to forget that in the case of the large city newspapers, no such saving was effected. The publishers now pay the express companies. This amendment was simply a postal system undertaking to do what was now done by the express companies. He maintained that there was 110 just cause why our parcel delivery should not be largely increased, and why increased facilities should not be furnished on railways for this branch of the postal service. He did think that the time had fully come when that system should be taken hold of by the Government, as it was in France and Switzerland. The railways in England did their own express business, and they did it with cheapness and efficiency. He hoped that the carriage of newspapers, at least, would all be done by the Government; but he could not see that it would be a proper thing to do it for nothing. It might perhaps be a very desirable thing, in order to foster certain industries in the country, that their letters should be carried free of charge, but what right would they have to get such a service performed at the public expense. Those who had the benefit of such a service should pay for it. Mr. YOUNG-These are the subscribers in this case. Mr. WILKES said no real argument had been advanced so far to show why this charge should be remitted. In fact, the country newspaper would profit more largely than any other by the proposed arrangement. The great difficulty with the country newspapers was that they were placed in competition with the weekly issues of the great central dailies. These were delivered in large quantities by express, but the express companies did not send their messengers into the parts of the country to which the circulation of the country weekly was principally confined. He considered that the proposition of the Postmaster General gave these newspapers chance of enlarging their circulation very considerably, because the paper was Hon. D. A. Macdonald. a cheapened to the public, and would therefore be in greater demand. He hoped the proposal of the Government would be agreed to by the House. Mr. LANDERKIN complimented the Postmaster General for having in this Bill taken a step in the right direction. The service that his hon. friend had performed in giving us greater postal facilities with the United States, was one that was received with great favor in Canada, and of itself the proposal to reduce newspaper It was postage, was a commendable one. unfortunate, however, that it involved somewhat of a grievance to country newspapers, and he observed that the country publishers were complaining that it was unjust that they should be taxed in the pre-payment of postage on their papers, on the ground that it would be a serious burden upon them, and would increase the expense connected with the publication of their papers. An increase of expense, as every one knew, was detrimental to the circulation. The majority of them had a circulation limited enough already, competition being very great. If it were at all possible he would like to see this matter rectified. He believed also the country generally would like to see a change made. The revenue derived from this source was very small, so small that he thought it might well be dispensed with. He heartily appreciated the advantages that had recently been conferred upon the people by the Post Office Department, and believed the country generally felt very grateful for them. He hoped this feeling would not be disturbed by insisting upon this provision which told so heavily against the Provincial press. Mr. MILLS called attention to the wording of sections 22 and 23, which he was afraid would not be interpreted generally as they had been by the Postmaster General. He agreed with the hon. Minister that the proposals were very proper ones, but he was of opinion that these provisions would be differently understood by postmasters throughout the country. He thought it would be well if some verbal alterations were made so that the meaning of the resolutions might be perfectly clear. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL expressed satisfaction at the progress the Postmaster General was making in assimilating our system to the English one. He strongly 糟 recommended that the Government should allow this question to be discussed entirely apart from political feeling, and throw themselves open to accept suggestions from every side of the House. He (Mr. MITCHELL) strongly favored the entire removal of postage from newspapers, and he believed if a considerable majority of the House should be in favor of it, the Postmaster General should not insist upon retaining the clause to which objection was taken. The general circulation of newspapers he considered to be the best means of educating the people. He therefore hoped that the country publishers would not be placed at any disadvantage. He made these suggestious with a sincere desire to have such a bill as would be most beneficial to the public. Hon. D. A. MACDONALD said it had been stated that the Bill was likely to operate in favor of the metropolitan papers, and against the country weeklies. Now, it so happened that five numbers of the Weekly Globe made a pound, and it required on the average thirteen ordinary country weeklies to make a pound. He failed to see in that case where the country newspaper was likely to suffer. On the contrary, he maintained it was likely to be a great advantage to them. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL said they would suffer in this way-that while metropolitan journals could send their publications in large quantities and very cheaply by express companies, the country newspapers had to send the whole of their matter through the post. Hon. D. A. MACDONALD said that the express companies would certainly not send the matter mnch cheaper than it was proposed to be sent by post under this Bill. The House then went into Committee of the Whole, Mr. MCLENNAN in the chair. Mr. YOUNG moved in amendment "That the following be substituted for the twenty-second sub-section of Clause 3: "That newspapers and periodical publications printed and published in Canada, and issued not less frequently than once a month from a known office of publication or news agency, and addressed and posted by and from the same to regular subscribers or news agents, shall be carried through the mails free, and such newspapers and periodicals shall be put Hon. Mr. Mitchell. up into packages and delivered into the Post Office, and the postage rate thereon prepaid by the sender thereof, under such regulations as the Postmaster General may from time to time direct." He said that the arguments adduced in favor of the clause as submitted did not alter his opinion that the change was made mainly to suit the convenience of officials in the head office, and that practically it would operate disadvantageously to the country and advantageously to the city press. The city newspapers expended large sums in paying commissions to country agents, and those charges would be largely reduced by the system of mailing papers. The revenue derived from the newspaper postage would not exceed $10,000 per annum, and it was doubtful whether the newspapers would be sent by mail or by express. Mr. ROSS (Middlesex), as seconder of the amendment, said the design of the amendment was to abolish entirely and completely the newspaper postage and to allow, as far as Government was concerned, the free circulation of newspaper literature. In Ontario, as well as in the other Provinces, a large sum was annually drawn from the public exchequer for educational purposes, the annual vote in Ontario amounting to half a million dollars. The educational vote in the different Provinces was among the most popular appropriations. Assuming the loss to the revenue to be $10,000, if the newspaper postage were abolished, the Government were liberally expending money upon objects which would be productive of less public good than that of securing the free circulation of newspaper literature throughout the Dominion. He hoped the amendment would be adopted. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-I say most decidedly that the Government cannot accept this amendment. We have gone a long way towards cheapening newspaper literature. We have reduced the postage on newspapers seventy-five per cent., and if hon. gentlemen are determined to still further reduce it, the only effect will be to defeat the Bill altogether. Hon. Mr. TUPPER said after the very extraordinory announcement of the First Minister, he would like to know more distinctly its purport. Did the First Minister intend to intimate that the Government would treat the carrying of this amend |