that Nipegon would be taken as the Lake | if the hon. gentleman proposed that a Superior terminus, not that the Govern- negotiation be entered into with the conment committed themselves, as I recollect tractor for the release of that land, he would the assertions made upon the point. As I find him quite willing to get rid of it at recollect the discussions, it was left to be a much less rate than he has valued the decided upon by subsequent surveys, but land at. It is an entirely absurd calculathere was certainly in my own mind, and, tion to say that these 1,700,000 acres are I believe, in the minds of others, an im- worth $2 an acre to this country. Even pression that it was more likely that valuing them at $1 would be in my judgeNipegon would be taken as the Lake ment an excessive valuation. But even Superior terminus. Of course, I do not valuing them at $1 an acre you would know, and therefore I do not attempt to then have $2,890,000 as cash and land answer the hon. gentleman's observations which the Georgian Bay branch would on that point. The First Minister will, cost. Then I understand that the Canada no doubt, give the House the information Central Railway is to receive a subsidy of which has led to the final conclusion to from 110 to 120 miles. I assume the make Thunder Bay the terminus. With medium, 115 miles, and the subsidy to reference to the Georgian Bay branch, that road would therefore amount to that was one of the specific points upon $1,380,000, thus making a total of which the opinion of the country was $4,270,000 in cash and land, of which taken, and therefore is especially $2,570,000 is in cash for the Georgian subject to the general observation Bay branch and the subsidy to the Canada that I made as to the policy of the Central, which will complete the construcGovernment. The hon. member for Cum- tion of about 200 miles of railway on the berland submitted certain calculations to direct route from the waters of Lake the House, with reference to the cost of Huron to the Atlantic sea-board. Of the Georgian Bay Branch, and its exten- course sectional interests crop out in this sion, which certainly were a little alarm- matter. My hon. friend from Terrebone ing, but we all know my hon. friend's and other hon. gentlemen are pointing out mastery of the art of piling up large that Lower Canada is greatly aggrieved columns of figures, and I do not think that because a line has been adopted which is he has been unequal to his former efforts said to be, and which, upon the informain that direction upon this occasion. We tion before us I believe to be-although I have found him putting a value of his own do not profess to be an engineerupon the land subsidy. We have found a direct line from the waters of him exaggerating other items to be taken Lake Huron to tide-water. Hon. into account, and we have found him thus gentlemen opposite object to that course : making a total which I do not think the they say that some further advantage House will agree is a correct one in that should be given to the Province of Quematter. As I understand the figures the bec-that the road ought to be run in cost of building the Georgian Bay Branch, another direction, which would enable the a distance of 85 miles, is as follows: Sub- traffic to pass over and practically facilisidy, $10,000 per mile $850,000; tate the construction of another railway Guarantee of 4 per cent. interest on $7,500 on the other side of the Ottawa, which for 20 years, which I am told, capitalised, would pass through a greater portion of is equivalent to $4,000 in cash per mile. the territory of the Province. On the Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-A little other hand, I notice by the Toronto less. papers that there has been a meeting of Hon. Mr. BLAKE-That we make the council of that city, at which resolu$340,900, giving $1,190,000 as the total tions were unanimously passed denouncvalue of the cash to be expended by the ing the Government for granting aid to country in the construction of the the Canada Central, and I am informed Georgian Bay Branch. With reference to that a mass meeting of the citizens has the 20,000 acres of land subsidy, the hon. been called to discuss the same question member for Cumberland calculates it at $2 to-night. It is quite clear that the reprean acre. I do not believe the House will sentatives of that corporation are just as accept that calculation. I am quite sure much aggrieved, in their point of view, as Hon. Mr. Blake. is the hon. membet for Terrebonne speak- | Government was that I put upon the ing from his point of view, by the action paper some time ago an inquiry of the of the Government. Well, it is an old First Minister with reference to communicriticism under such circumstances, that cations in that direction. With reference when you find both parties complaining, to what the hon. member for Cumberland something not very far from justice may has observed as to the improvidence of be presumed to have been done, and that this contract and the haste with which it neither of them has been specially was entered into, I cannot help being favored. I do not know much about this struck by the remarkable inconsistency of question of engineering and surveying. the hon. gentleman's argument. He I presume from the observations of the dealt with it in the first instance as if it First Minister, who pointed out that the was an extravagant contract but he afterpolicy of the Government was the same wards told us that the contract was taken as it was found to be during the elections, at such a rate as would render it imposthat every exertion will be made to se- sible of fulfillment, and that large demands cure the best route in all respects, the would be made upon the public purse by shortest, the easiest grades, and the best the contractor in consequence of the line country through which to pass. I also not having been cross-sectioned, and in presume, from his references to the Geor- consequence of fuller information not gian Bay branch, that it also answers all having been obtained. And the hon. these requirements. I presume, when the gentleman stated that the experience of debate arises on the question of affirming the Intercolonial Railway would be repeated this proposed contract, that we shall then and the line would cost more money than or previously be placed in the full posses- was originally stipulated to be paid. Well, sion of details which will satisfy us that I was greatly relieved by the later observaproper preliminary steps have been taken tions of the hon. member for Cumberland by the Government, and that there is a just because they satisfied me that the slight foundation for the assertion that in this allusion he had made in the first instance case, as well as with reference to the rest of to its being an improvident and extravathe line, all due precautions have been gant contract could not be correct. It is taken to secure the very best route. not an extravagant contract if it has been As far as things go I favor the adoption made for an amount less than the road of the present route, but I admit that it is could be built for. At any rate we have to be decided not by me or others like the assurance of the hon. member that the myself upon cursory information that we Government has made a very good barare able to obtain, but by the reports and gain-one of which the complaint he decisions of engineers after a full examina- makes is that it is too good-so good that tion. I am of opinion that the assistance he does not expect that the contractor that has been rendered, it is true in a will be able to implement ît. The hon. direct line from the Atlantic sea-board to gentleman adverted to the Pembina branch, the North-West, has been munificent, and and he complained of the Government that the legitimate aspirations of Quebec proceeding to a certain extent with the have been fully met. But, had it been preparations for the completion of that otherwise, I should have been prepared as branch by letting a portion of the grading an elector of Ontario to sustain the Local of the line upon the ground that it was Government in granting certain lands of not necessary for the purposes of the Canathat Province in aid of so much of the dian Pacific Railway proper. Well Pacific Railway as runs through its limits, it did surprise me that hon. gentlebut under the present arrangement 1 am men should oppose the Pembina branch, not prepared to approve of such a course. having regard to the policy of the late I believe that the true course for my Pro- Government with respect to the Pacific vince to pursue would be to reserve cer- Railway; and here I may say, with restain lands for the purpose of mak-pect to that branch, that I am not advoing that connection which Quebec is to obtain out of the funds of the Dominion by reason of this subsidy to the Canada Central. It was upon hearing from general rumor what the policy of the Hon. Mr. Blake. 1 cating my own views in supporting its present construction, because the late Government proposed to carry it out, and no gentleman on our side of the House objected to that portion of the policy of Hon. Mr. TUPPER-No. The policy was to allow the company that was going to build the main line to construct that branch. Hon. Mr. BLAKE What was the policy of the Government? Let the hon. gentleman turn to the famous, let me say the notorious, contract which was cancelled by his Government shortly before it fell, and he will find that the policy of the Government was to have the Pembina Branch finished and put in operation by the first of December last. The policy was to develop the North-West by means of that branch, and the intention was to use it as a means of access to the North-West territories. Hon. Mr. TUPPER-It was not to be built by the Government. the Government. I do not recollect that Hon. Mr. BLAKE-Was there any one dissenting voice, when the proposals vote recorded against it? Is the hon. of the late Government for the construc- gentleman's vote to be found upon our tion of the Canadian Pacific Railway were journals giving the lie to his own statute before Parliament, was raised against the passed in 1872? The policy of the late proposal that a Pembina branch should be Government, as developed in the statute constructed. It was agreed to by us all book, was to build that branch. hon. gentleman opposite proposed it, and we thought the proposal a wise one-if we were going to construct a Pacific Railway at all. We acquiesced in their view, and that portion of their scheme passed unanimously. And yet, when we went to the country the other day, and it was announced as part of the policy of the Government to carry out that portion of the policy of the late Government which we had assented to in opposition, and to which the faith of the country had been in a measure pledged-when we proposed, I say, to carry out that policy with only this modification, that we said we could not do it as fast as they had engaged to do it, and that we would be obliged to take more time than they had promised, and that we could not implement their views to the full in that matter, we know what an outery was raised throughout Ontario, and how the Government were charged with playing into the hands of the Northern Pacific Railway because they proposed to build the Pembina Branch. Our fault was that coming into the Government we had agreed to carry out the policy which we had assented to in opposition and which our opponents were responsible for, and which they had placed upon the statute books; and because we announced our intention of carrying out that policy we were villified from one end of the country to the other as unpatriotic and as incurring a useless expenditure of public money. Following up the same line of attack, though not with the same violence as during the elec-gument used early in the discussion of tion, the hon. gentleman to-night has assailed the Government for undertaking the construction of this Pembina Branch. What did Parliament do last session? Did not Parliament agree that the Pembina Branch should be built? Was it not thoroughly understood that progress was to be made with that work as rapidly as possible. Was opposition expressed by any gentleman opposite to this course ? Hon. Mr. TUPPER-Yes. any Hon. Mr. BLAKE but it was to be built with public funds, and for the purpose of the present argument it makes no difference whether it was to be built by the Government or by any private company aided by a grant of public money. It was to be built with public money, and that is what is being done now. Hon. Mr. TUPPER. No- Hon. Mr. BLAKE. It is being built now under a contract. Hon. Mr. TUPPER-under the scheme of the late Government it was to be built by a private company, aided by the Government, and not as a Government work. Hon. Mr. BLAKE—I appeal to the candor of the hon. gentleman's own supporters to say if that was not the ar the subject. The hon. gentleman alleges in one sustained it when in power, and I sustainment has been with reference to the relax ation of terms, and I wish to point out, in reference to this, observations of my own in support of it, and statements made in the blue book laid before us. On page 26, in the first minute of Council sent to the Colonial Secretary, this statement is made :-"The propositions made by Mr. "penditure in British Columbia not con it now as a private member of this House. I am aware that caution is requisite, and having regard to the circumstances, I heartily endorse the conduct of the Government in proceeding so far as they did proceed last season in grading that piece of the line which will certainly be constructed, and is sure to go into operation. I heart-"EDGAR involved an immediate heavy exily endorse their conduct, having regard to the pledges made, the difficulties the country was involved in at the time, and the importance of the public works being prosecuted in the Dominion. Then we have the question of a road from Esquimault to Nanaimo. As to that, I do not observe that the hon. gentleman said much upon it. I suppose he could not complain of the construction of that branch. Hon. Mr. TUPPER-I do not complain of it. Hon. Mr. BLAKE-Upon that subject, at any rate, even his mouth is shut, because the late Government had, by executive action, determined, as far as they could determine for the people of this country, that the terminus of the Pacific Railway should be at Esquimault, and that we should build the road, not merely from Esquimault to Nanaimio, but further on, and to cross the Narrows to the mainland at I don't know what cost. Therefore, the hon. Premier occupies, with reference to his opponents, an impregnable position, while he proposes to this House to do anything with reference to the construction of that piece of the line. I always, for myself, dissented from the view that the improvident and reckless promise made on behalf of this country of building a line on Vancouver Island. Mr. DECOSMOS—No, no! Hon. Mr. BLAKE-I contend to the contrary. The hon. gentleman says it should be built, but others think it would be in the interest of the country that the arrangement made to construct a road to Esquimault should be cancelled, and a а new arrange nent made. The Government has rightly, from its accession to power taken the view that that arrangement was in excess of the verms of Union, and that the country is not bound to do more than to construct a line to the Pacific Ocean. Anything beyond that was beyond the terms of the bargain. I am here called upon to advert to what the policy of the Govern Hon. Mr. Blake. templated by the terms of Union, namely, "the construction of a railway on Van"couver's Island, from the Port of Esqui"mault to Nanaimo, as compensation to the "most populous part of the Province for "the requirement of a longer time for completing the line on the mainland." Mr. DE COSMOS-That is bosh. Hon. Mr. BLAKE-It may be bosh, but it is a melancholy fact. This proposition was made, and ultimately, by the arrangements which have been made, and I understand it to have been acceded to, that the construction of the piece from Esquimault to Nanaimo should be proceded with, not as a necessary portion of the Pacific Railway, but as compensation for not completing the line on the mainland. Mr. DE COSMOS-Would the hon. gentleman point to any part of the propositions made by Mr. EDGAR to Mr. WALKEM, in which the word compensation appears? Hon. Mr. BLAKE—I do not know anything about that. Mr. DE COSMOS-Well, keep within the record. Hon. Mr. BLAKE-I am keeping within the record. I am keeping within the record of the Minute in Council and also within the record of the decision of Lord CARNARVON. I am keeping within the record when I show that the Government of British Columbia agreed to be bound by the decision of Lord CARNARVon. I am keeping therefore, within, the record when I say that the Government of British Columbia, as far as it can bind the people of that Province, agreed to accept an extension of the railway from Esquimault to Nanaimo as compensation or part compensation for the delay in the time of construction. In the instructions to Mr. EDGAR, this passage occurs :— "You will take special care not to admit "in any way that we are bound to build "the railway to Esquimault or any other that the expenditure of $1,500,000 should be increased to $2,000,000 the Minute in Council of September, 1874, states :— "In regard to the second proposal, the committee recommend that Lord CARNARVON be informed (if it be found impos Mr. DE COSMOS-Will the hon. gen-ence to the proposal of Lord CARNARVON, leman point out where the word "compensation" comes in in those instructions? I do not wish the impression to go abroad that compensation was offered to British Columbia by Mr. EDGAR when such was not the case. The First Minister has alluded to his own private and confidential in-sible to obtain a settlement of the question structions to Mr. EDGAR, but they were not put before the Government of British Columbia. I wish the hon. gentleman to state distinctly what were the propositions that Mr. EDGAR did make to the Government of British Columbia, and let him show whether the word "compensation" was used in them at all. by the acceptance of the former offer) that Hon. Mr. BLAKE-I have already pointed out that that is entirely immateterial, inasmuch as the hon. gentleman might deny that proposals distinctly indicating that view, were assented to, and formed the basis of the decision of Lord CARNARVON, which they had agreed to accept. Now, Mr. Chairman, I have stated in public on one occasion, and also in this House, my own opinion that the proposals which were made by the Government through Mr. EDGAR were of an extremely liberal character, and were not such as ought to be materially enlarged by the people of this country. It seems to me that I am fortified at any rate in that opinion by the language which I find in the Minute of Council from which I have been reading, on page 27:-"The public feeling of the whole Dominion has "been expressed so strongly against the "The fourth condition involves another “fatal extravagance involved in the terms precise engagement to have the whole of agreed to by the late Government, that "the railway communication finished in 66 no Government could live that would "1890. There are the strongest possible "attempt or rather pretend to attempt" objections to again adopting a precise "their literal fulfilment. Public opinion "would not go beyond the proposal made through Mr. EDGAR to the Government." That Minute of Council was transmitted to Lord CARNARVON and he made his counter-suggestions or stated his views, which were very considerably in excess, in some particulars, of those which had been submitted by the Government of the Dominion. In some of these particulars Hon. Mr. Blake. Сс "time for the completion of the lines." Then the Minute in Council proceeds to say :- "There can be no doubt that it would be an extremely difficult task to obtain the sanction of the Canadian Parliament to any specific bargain as to time, considering the consequences which have already resulted from the unwise adoption of a limited period in the terms of Union for |