tion was closed, a gentleman telegraphed ment as usual, were disposed of in the usual way, an Order in Council directing the acceptance of the lowest tender put in was passed as usual, and he thought there was nothing of which hon. members could complain, or of which the public outside could complain, unless it were that the price of the work was higher than they expected. He quite agreed in that view, and the tenders were higher than he had anticipated. As to the calculation made by the hon. member for Cumberlond in which he endeavored to show that eight millions were proposed to be spent by the Government on works which were not in connection with the Pacific road, he had merely to say that he had heard so much during the present and the previous session from the honourable gentleman who dealt in millions as boys would with toys, that he paid very little attention to his finanacial calculations, Not only did the hon. gentleman deal with millions as a boy would with toys, but he heaped them up without the slightest regard to the correctness of the premises upon which he based his conclusions. He should have called the amount twenty millions at once which could be done by counting $5 instead of $2 as the price per acre. But the hon. gentleman knew that the Government were endeavouring to get settlers induced to come into the country by giving away the lands for nothing, or selling them at 50 cents an acre; and yet he (Mr. TUPPER), for the sake of creating a false impression in the House and the country, valued them at $2 an acre. However, the hon. gentleman was so much accustomed to make use of hyperbolic language, that his statements had but little effect. When the hon. gentleman began to deal in figures, people began to make allowances for him; as an hon. member had just suggest ed, such speeches were figurative. The hon. member for Cumberland further stated that the Government had no authority to purchase steel rails. He (Mr. MACKENZIE) believed they had. The tenders would be laid before the House, and it would be competent for them to pass whatever opinion upon them they liked, He believed the Government acted in the best interest of the country. The hon. member for Cum-terest in it than the Province of Maniberland said the rails were bought in a falling market. He could not have looked at the prices prevailing when that state ment was made. A week after the transacHon. Mr. Mackenzie. Mr. RYAN said this was a subject of the very first importance to Parliament. Every Canadian was deeply interested in the success of the enterprise, for it was the first great national work our Dominion had undertaken, the successful accomplishment of which would not merely be a national advantage, but a great national honor. But deeply interested as we all were in the success of the project, there was no portion of the Dominion had a deeper in toba. In the other Provinces men looked upon the scheme as a manifestation of the business energy and patriotism of the Dominion; but to the people of : Manitoba it was a necessary part of their | tion in regard to the Pacific Railway, he existence as a portion of this Confedera- supposed the people of Manitoba had notion. The eastern Provinces had the thing left them but to bow to the policy of Atlantic Ocean; the Pacific ocean washed the nation- —a policy which inflicted a great the shore of British Columbia; the Pro- loss upon their little Province, but appearvinces of Ontario and Quebec had the ed to be a great gain to the whole Dominmagnificent St. Lawrence in summer, and ion. He did not rise for the purpose of the Grand Trunk and Intercolonial Rail- discussing which was the best route; he ways in the winter; Manitoba alone was simply rose to call the attention of the isolated. North of them they had the Government and the House to the fact that snow and ice bound Hudson's Bay, east of by crossing Lake Manitoba at the Narrows, them the almost trackless territory of even with the Pembina Branch, the whole Lake Superior and Red River, west of country south of the Lake would be left them the great Lone Land and on the absolutely without railway communication. south they were met by the protective Without a railway it was impossible to policy of the United States, which was open up a prairie country. Illinois, and almost as impervious to trade as thedeserts other Western States of the American with which upon other sides they were Union, which to-day were blossoming like surrounded. There were few in Manitoba gardens, were uncultivated and unreclaimto-day who could have been induced to go ed until they were traversed by the iron there unless the Dominion Gov- road. The railroad was the natural road ernment had promised to build the of the prairies, and the experience of the Pacific Railway, and in nineteen West had proven that the locomotive was cases out of twenty they had invested in nearly all cases the pioneer of settletheir means and settled down, not where ment, If the road must cross the Lake at in the meantime it would have been abso- the rapids, and if it did not traverse the lutely most profitable, but where they country to the south, he thought, since the were led to believe the line of the Canada work was proposed to be accomplished by Pacific Railway would pass. This they private enterprise, that the Government had been led to do by maps professing to should at least extend some assistance. To give an outline of the route, published by those who might raise the objection that the Dominion Government, and furnished this was a Provincial work, and should be by the Dominion Lands Office at Winni- assisted, if assisted at all, by the Government peg. of the Province, he had to reply that the forests and uncultivated land, which were the sources from which railways ought to be built, were the property of the Dominion Government Dominion Government was therefore the proper authority to do all that was necessary towards opening up the lands of the Province, and to assist in projects of this nature. There seemed to be in the House considerable difference of opinion as to which portions of the railway should be constructed first, and which were most required for the opening up of the country. So far as the portion of the road west of the Rocky Mountains was concerned, he had nothing to say regarding it. Its construction was regulated by an agreement made between the Dominion and the Province of British Columbia. But if Canada was ever to become a great nation, if we were to be really and truly independent, if we were to stand ready and able to defend her liberty, if it were attacked on the Southern side, by the The information thus afforded, it might be stated, constituted no obligation upon the Government, but it exercised a considerable influence upon settlers in the investment of their money. It was, therefore, with universal regret that the people of Manitoba learned the unalterable intention of the Government was to cross Lake Manitoba at the Narrows instead of passing to the south of the Lake, as was originally intended. It was urged upon them that the line south of the lake would traverse the best country for settlement-a country, indeed, partially settled already -the country having the best climate, the country having the most productive land; but all these arguments, and other arguments equally strong, were met by the statement that the proposed route was thirty miles the shorter. Since the policy of the Government in that respect had been endorsed by gentlemen upon the Opposition side of the House, since the hon. member for Cumberland had declared that a saving of distance was a first considera + and the Mr. Ryan. strong arms and stout hearts of her sons, rather than by the good graces of Uncle Sam; then it was out upon the plains of the North-West that our destiny had to be solved. To open up that vast country, to pour into it a thrifty population drawn from the over-crowded cities and towns of Europe, ought to be the aim of all Canadian statesmen and the purpose of those in whose hands was the building of the Pacific Railway. This was not to be done by frittering away the resources of the country in building portions of the road which it would be unnecessary to build for ten years, and which would be constructed by private enterprise when required. Nature had furnished us with an admirable chain of water communication, unrivalled in the geography of the world, which, during the open season, at least, would always be able to compete successfully for the traffic of the country. In opening up the North-West, we should utilize this chain of lakes as much as pos sible. It being six o'clock, the House took recess, Mr. RYAN still having the floor. :++: AFTER RECESS. The following private Bills were read a third time and passed :— Mr. BOWELL-To incorporate the Intelligencer Printing and Publishing Company. Mr. ČURRIER-To incorporate the Lower Ottawa Boom Company. THE PACIFIC RAILWAY. Mr. RYAN resumed his speech. He said he was speaking, when the House rose for recess, of the manner in which the Canada Pacific Railroad was being constructed. The Government had agreed to subsidise the Canada Central Railroad and the Georgian Bay Branch, to the extent of about four and a half or five millions of dollars, at a very moderate calculation. It seemed to him, under the present circumstances, that this expenditure was wholly inadvisable. The Georgian Bay Branch and the extenCanada Central, even sion of the though they be considered by the House as portions of the railroad, would not be required for the next eight or ten years, and the policy of the Government in this respect, was not sound. Already there were rumours of deputations from the West, and, he very much feared, before the end ment would have to subsidise more Onof the matter was reached, the Governtario railroads, whereas if they had left the road as it was, this portion would have been built by private enterprise when the time arrived for constructing it. Manitoba had been for the last three years crying out for railroad communication with the east. To that Province it was a matter of life or death, and when these facts were considered, the Government would find it extremely difficult to justify so large an expenditure as the item under consideration. They also proposed to build a branch of 45 miles from Fort William to Shebandowan and to expend in improving the chain of lakes which constitute the Dawson Route. He thought this large expenditure was very ill-advised. Supposing this route was completed what would it amount to? It was half land and half water, an amphibious route which would be wholly inadequate to meet the requirements of the North-West. The first freight for exportation from the NorthWest would be grain, and he inclined to believe that there would plenty be before the of it long gentlemen on the Treasury Benches scemed to expect it. Supposing the road were completed to-morrow, and Manitoba had a million bushels of grain to export, would it pay to send it to Lake Superior by such a route on which it would be necessary to break bulk and The following Bills were read a second $390,000 time : Mr. JETTE-To incorporate the Canada Land Investment Guarantee Company. Mr. JETTE-Act further to amend the Act 14 and 15 Victoria, Chap. 36, incorporating The Canada Guarantee Com was The Government would spend less in building a railroad along their banks than would be required to keep them navigable, and, after all, they would come to the conclusion that the only means of settling and developing the country was the railroad. Of all the railroads which were now being built, or in contemplation, the only one which would form a part of the Pacific railroad was the section from Rat Portage to Red River. If the money asked for the construction of the two sections between Lake Superior and Red River, and for the Pembina branch had been expended in building the main line of the Pacific Railroad, it would leave only 184 miles to be constructed between Fort Garry and Lake Ellen, and the subsidy to the Georgian Bay branch and the Canada Central Řailroad would go a great way towards the construction of that 184 miles. It had been urged by the hon. member for South Bruce that as the Government had appealed to the country on their policy, and been sustained by an overwhelming majority, it would not be fair to change it now. His (Mr. RYAN's) impression was that the verdict of the people at the last general election, was not on the Pacific railroad but on the Pacific scandal. If the Government were to go to the country to-morrow, and place their present policy of building the Pacific Railroad, before the electors, he (Mr. RYAN) was satisfied the people's verdict would be entirely different from that which they rendered on that occasion. tranship several time? Nothing but an all rail route would suit that Province, and it must be built at the earliest possible day. During the discussion in committee the other day, there was something said as to the advisability of building the Pembina Branch. Now, his opinion was that the building of this branch under the present circumstances was a necessity, not caused by the requirements of the country, but by the shilly shallying, dilatory policy which the Government had shown in dealing with the building of the Pacific Railroad. Had the Government he did not refer to this Government particularly, but to both Governments-lent all their energies to the building of a road from the shore of Lake Ellen to Red River, this Pembina Branch would not be required. It was not good policy for this country to send freight over American lines any longer than they could help. As a colonization road it would be of very little use, running as it did for 82 miles almost parallel with the Red River. If there was a river in the North that was really navigable, it was precisely that portion of the Red River with which the Pembina branch would eventually come in competition. Although it was late in the day now, he was satisfied if the Government would give as an alternative to the people of the North-West this Pembina branch and the half-rail and half-water between Fort William and Fort Garry, on the one hand, and an all rail route from Fort Garry to Lake Ellen on the other, the unanimous opinion of the people of the North-West would be in favor of the latter. He had heard a great deal of the magnificent stretches of water communication in the North-West. He had been He had been very nearly three years in that country, and during that time it was his good fortune to converse weekly-almost daily with traders and others who traversed the great West and it was their impression that these magnificent stretches of water communication existed for the most part in the imagination of Canadian orators. We had in reality only one magnificent stretch of water communication available, the St. Lawrence, and for the purposes of this work it would terminate at Thunder Bay on Lake Ellen. The rivers of the North-West were like the rivers of all other prairie countries. They were shallow, meandering and full of sand bars which were continually shifting. Br. Ryan Mr. IRVING said he thought the manner in which the hon. gentleman from Marquette had disparaged the expenditure which the Government was making for the benefit of Manitoba benefit of Manitoba would hardly be approved of by the people of that Province. If he understood the hon. gentleman correctly he was prepared to give up the Pembina branch and confine his Province to the one road from Red River to Lake Superior, which by reason of its geographical position must be inaccessible for six or seven months in the year. That was not the sentiment of the people of Manitoba. They desired if possible an all rail route through our own territory, but awaiting that they were anxious for the Pembina branch at once. He was satisfied on that point from the inquiries he had made during a short stay in that Province. Every patriot desired that as soon as possible we should have the means ments of his Province, as the hon. memof reaching the North-West through our ber for Hamilton had charged him of doown territory, because welling, he was amenable to his constituents ; that and he would like to know to whom the member for Hamilton was responsible if he chose in the interest of the Government or any other interest to make such known went it was States on the had to Manitoba his way ears filled with stories adverse to our country. no wheat have to export for eight or ten years. On the contrary he believed if Providence blessed them with good harvests, in two years they would have large quantities of wheat to export. Respecting the remarks of the hon. gentleman with reference to the Dawson road, he (Mr. RYAN) reminded the hon. gentle man that he had not spoken of the Dawson road. He spoke of the proposed Government road, and if he had not been over it he did not think his hon. friend had either, and if the work was not pushed any faster than it had been he was afraid With regard he never would go over it. to the shifting sands in the rivers of Manitoba, he had stated his sources of information. He had spoken to trappers, who had been over the country for years; and he was satisfied his information was correct. He therefore held that under the circum-statements as those he had just made. He stances of the case the Government were differed from the view of the hon. gentlethat Manitoba would right in utilizing the Dawson Road till man Manitoba had became sufficiently developed to furnish a traffic that would justify the building of a railway from Thunder Bay to Red River. The hon. member for Marquette had stated that wheat could not be exported from Manitoba by the means the Government proposed to provide at a remunerative price. There were two answers to that statement. In the first place it would be eight or ten years or more before Manitoba would grow wheat enough to serve the population going in there. At the present time the Red River was crowded with craft bringing wheat from the United States into Manitoba. When that country produced a surplus of wheat over home consumption it would be time enough to speak of an all rail route to Lake Superior. In the second place Manitoba was not so far from Lake Superior, when this all rail route was completed, as many of Mr. DECOSMOS said he would endeathe present grain-growing States were vor to draw the attention of the House, from Chicago. His hon. friend went out and through the House the country, to of his way to cast a reflection on the some points that the country ought to Dawson Road. He believed the hon. gen- understand. With relation to the Pacific tleman had never been over that road, but Railway as regards the Province of Britall those who had been over it and were ac-ish Columbia he was free to accept the quainted with it, would admit that after the expenditure the Government proposed to make on it, it would be a good summer road—one that would suffice for several years, and which would save the expense of building an all rail road. When his hon. friend spoke of shifting sands and sand bars he took it that he spoke of the Saskatchewan and other rivers far west, of which he (Mr. IRVING) believed his hon. friend knew nothing. With reference to the water communication on the Dawson route, the water was unusually deep, and the locks and portages were trifling. Under these circumstances he approved of the proposal of the Government to utilize in the meantime that water communication. Mr. RYAN desired to say a few words in reply. If he misrepresented the sentiMr. Irring. situation. He was unwilling to use any influence which he might possess to raise any factious opposition to the decision rendered by the arbitrator, Lord CARNARVON. In saying this, however, he merely confined himself to British Columbia. When the contract for the Georgian Bay branch and the subsidy to the Canada Central came up for discussion he might have something more to say. He congra tulated the First Minister on his lucid exposition of the affairs of the Pacific Railway, and said that when he spoke of the line taking the route by way of Bute Inlet he but echoed the judgment of the people of British Columbia, and all who wished to see a national highway across this continent. Having said that he would refer to some other matters-matters which had engaged the attention ofthe British public, |