unbounded resources were the resources | accept what he (Lord CARNARVON) thought a fair compromise, he might have used his power as Colonial Secretary to pass an Imperial Act dissolving the connection between British Columbia and the Dominion. Perhaps the hon. gentleman might say that it did not matter much whether this was done or not. On that subject he would not at present enter into a discussion. of Canada. The hon. gentleman was M ̈. Roscoe. Mr. SMITH (Selkirk) said his hon. friend from Marquette had very properly pointed out that it had been matter of great disappointment to the people of Manitoba that the railway, instead of passing through the centre of the Province, was to go a considerable distance to the north, touching it only at one point. The Minister of Public Works gave as a reason for this that there would be a saving of thirty miles. That certainly was a very great consideration from a Dominion point of view. The principle was maintained. throughout the whole line, and they could hardly look for an exception in favor of the Province of Manitoba, no matter how much they might regret the fact. Reference had been made to the interview which the deputation from Manitoba had had with the Minister of Public Works, and to the fact that but little hope was held out of a change of route. However, as they could not have this, he was glad to find an indication of willingness on the part of the Government to assist the people of Manitoba in building another line south of Lake Manitoba, running westward and southwardsuch assistance to be in the shape of grants of land. He earnestly trusted that this indication would be more than borne out by the facts, and that such assistance would be given as would give the people means of access to the best portions of the country, as well as of sending their produce out of it. Hon. Mr. TUPPER desired to know the points between which it was likely that road would run. Mr. SMITH said he had in view a road running from Fort Garry westward towards the south branch of the Saskatchewan for a distance of from 100 to 110 miles within the Province of Manitoba. It might extend, however, for six or seven hundred miles further to that portion of the country known as Bow River. That route would be south of the arid country stretching to a con siderable extent through the British pos- | hundred or one thousand miles into the sessions of the North-West. It had been interior within seventy or eighty miles of said that the desire was to bring this road the Rocky Mountains. too far south to meet the requirements of the great body of the people of the Province, he believed, however, that this was not the fact, and that the requirements of the greatest number would be duly considered before the Government would be asked for any assistance. Hon Mr. TUPPER-Did my hon. friend say that he had obtained a promise from the Government that they would aid the road. Mr. SMITH explained that he did not say there had been a promise but an indication which he trusted would be put into practice, The hon. member for Hamilton spoke of that charming road known as the Dawson Route. His (Mr. SMITH'S) opin ion of it differed very much from that of the hon. gentleman, and he could not speak of it in the same glowing terms. It was perhaps all very well so long as they had nothing better, and for the last year or two had served a very good purpose in causing a reduction of the charges made by American companies for the transport of passengers and freight. He certainly agreed with the hon. member, however, in believing that the people of Manitoba were most anxious to have at the earliest possible moment railway communication between Pembina and Fort Garry. They certainly desired, and hoped sometime to see an all-rail route constructed from one ocean to the other, but they were glad to have connection with Pembina in the meantime. Something had been said of the magnificent water courses of the North-West, and statements had been made that they were a myth not having yet been found out by those who had travelled over the country. His own impression was that there were some! stretches of water there that might properly be called magnificent. Lake Winnipeg was certainly no inconsiderable stretch of itself, and from that, with a very little barrier, an entrance was made into the Saskacthewan. From that point there were three hundred miles of uninterrupted water communication. At the end of those three hundred miles it was necessary to transport freight for four miles by land, and having again reached the Saskacthewan you could go for nine Mr. Smith. Mr. DECOSMOS-For how long? Hon. Mr. SMITH said last year a steamer built on the Saskatchewan proceeded up the river some six hundred miles to Carleton, and from that point would have had no difficulty whatever in going to Rocky Mountain House. This was something which should not be despised. At the same time he did not think because we had this water communication we should negect our railroads. Mr. JONES (Leeds)-What is the draft of the steamer you speak of ? Hon. Mr. SMITH-Some two and a half or three feet. The steamer is about 150 feet in length with 30 feet of beam, and capable of carrying a very considerable cargo. Mr. DECOSMOS-How long is it possible to navigate the Saskatchewan with such steamers? Hon. Mr. SMITH said the navigation might safely be commenced in June and continued until some time in September. He had He had descended the river some 500 miles in July and August, and there was then plenty of water for a boat drawing four or five feet of water. Mr. JONES (Leeds)-Was not that steamer wrecked? Hon. Mr. SMITH said unfortunately a steamer had been wrecked, but not this one. Though he had great respect for scientific men, he was bound to say if the Hudson's Bay Company had been guided by the reports of engineers they never would have dared to launch a steamer on the Saskatchewan. Practical men reported that the river was navigable, and he took the responsibility of building a steamer at a cost of fifty or sixty thousand dollars. That steamer was wrecked, but it was not owing to the difficulties of navigation directly. The vessel, through some misunderstanding between the captain and the officers, fell on the rocks in the rapids, and the wood being soft and the cargo heavy, was lost. Undeterred by this, another vessel was built. With regard to the Pembina branch he regretted to say that the line in Minnesota, from Glyndon to Pembina was at a stand still. The Legislature of Minnesota had adjourned without doing anything. It would be a great mis fortune not only to Manitoba, but also to | to give employment to the Union Pacific the whole Dominion ofthe North-West were Railway. it left for any length of time without railroad communication. With reference to the advantages of Thunder Bay and Nipegon Bay as harbors, the case was substantially this: While Nipegon Bay was a very good harbor, and might be approached and entered with safety throughout the season, the duration of open navigation was shorter to some extent than in Thunder Bay. The latter bay was not a good harbor and would require a great expenditure to improve it, but then the mouth of the Koninistiguia river formed an excellent harbor, where vessels were secure in every respect against storms. In respect to fogs, he had found them as bad in one place as in the other. The people of Manitoba hoped in the first place to have rail, and water communication, but hoped that in consequence of that not one day would be allowed to pass before complete rail communication was established between Lake Superior and Winnipeg. If He (Mr. BUNSTER) contended that there were only 600,000, and an important part of the traffic which was building up that line came from British Columbia. When the people of Canada came to know more of the Province on the Pacific, they would learn to appreciate it better. No one Minister had gone to British Columbia, but agents had been sent there to report upon it just as they wanted to have it represented. Would-be statesmen of Canada had thrown cold water on the grand scheme of a trans-continental railway, which was originated in British Columbia by a gentleman who was now no more. In the United States it was different. Every one was favorable to such great enterprises, and there were now no less than three Pacific railroads projected besides the existing line. Yet there were gentlemen in this House who advocated a half railroad, half water and ice road, which just amounted to no road at all. He did not consider that was fulfilling the contract with British Columbia. The people Mr. BUNSTER said it was really of that Province were not exacting. astonishing to hear the remarks the Dominion would only go to work in of the hon. gentlemen from Hamil-good faith and earnest to build the road, ton and Middlesex. If British Co- they would be satisfied. What guarantee lumbia had ever asked for better had they that the terms would not be terms there might have been some justifica- broken again? When confidence was tion for them, but she merely asked the once lost it was hard to regain it. The Dominion Government to proceed with people of British Columbia were laboring the construction of the railroad according under a disadvantage. Numbers of to the agreement entered into between farmers had gone there and purchased land Canada and that Province. What he on the understanding that the Canadian wanted in this House was men of ability Government was going to build the raillike Wm. B. OGDEN. When that gentle- road. There they were with plenty of man projected a railroad across the conti- stock and plenty of produce, but nent he was regarded as a lunatic; but no purchasers for them and no means of the road was built from Omaha to San getting them to a market. Taking into Francisco in three years and sixteen days, consideration all the advantages in favor at a time when a civil war was raging in of our road, he was satisfied that if it were the United States. He (Mr. BUNSTER) constructed we would soon induce not proposed to discuss a railroad project, not only the 500,000 Canadians who were in a steamboat road open only five months the United States to return to their in the year. Such a road would pay. native land, but as many Americans to We should follow the example set us by come with them and settle in the Dominour neighbors since we have advantages ion. He objected to the policy of the they did not possess. Our pass through late Government in having sent Mr. EDGAR the Rocky Mountains was 4,000 feet over to the Pacific coast to create ill feellower than theirs; we had less snow to ings, and on his return prepared a report contend with, and our road would pass which was objectionable in the extreme. through a fertile country and not a barren The expense incurred by Mr. EDGAR's visit region such as theirs. The hon. mem- to British Columbia would have gone ber for Middlesex had asserted that towards defraying the cost of building the there were three millions of people road. The amount placed in the estimates Hon. Mr. Smith. for expenditure on the road was absurdly small, instead of $6,000,000 there should have been $16,000,000. The First Minister stated that the Government would carry out the railway according to the Act; he (Mr. BUNSTER) would be glad if such proved to be the fact. But he did not consider one and a half million dollars annually was sufficient; the Province ought to have obtained $3,000,000 annually. The Government was very ready to declare that they would complete the road as speedily as possible; but there had not been a survey made of it yet, and there was no appearance of the terms of union being fulfilled. Besides the Government might have had a much larger staff of engineers at work than were employed at the present time. It would be a very easy matter for the Government, in future, to excuse their delay by stating that the surveys were not completed. The conduct of the people showed a marked contrast to that of the Dominion Government. The Province had always kept faith with the Dominion. If British Columbia desired to leave the Dominion it could have had a road built through and round the Province. If asked for proof of that, he would remind the House that the American people paid $7,000,000 for Alaska, and made a good bargain at that, for they leased the fisheries for $2,000,000 per annum. British Columbia was surely worth ten times as much as Alaska. The Americans would give fifty times as much in order to shut out the Dominion from the opportunity of becoming a nation on the Pacific Coast. Hence the Province had been shut out from obtaining a railroad owing to the allegiance of its people to the British flag. Mr. OLIVER was surprised at the cool statement made by the junior member for Victoria that no unreasonable demand had ever been made by British Columbia upon the Dominion. It appeared to him that they had heard a sufficient number of demands made to-night, which were unreasonable. The Dominion Government sent their agent to British Columbia to obtain a relaxation of the terms, and the Government offered to expend one and a half millions annually in the Province in the construction of the Pacific Railway. Yet that offer was refused by the people, and the demand was made for two millions, which they Ar. Burster. had obtained under the present agreement. enormous If any more unreasonable demand could be or in any way open up its unpeopled territory for settlement, and surely, hon. members who had the Intercolonial Railway built at an expenditure of twenty millions, and hon. members who were now asking for the expenditure of millions on the Pacific Railway, ought not to grudge Ontario the Georgian Bay Branch, which would pass through the rear of the Province. One word with respect to the allusion made to the dissatisfaction in his own Province. He might say that the dissatisfaction extended from British Columbia to Quebec, and this fact indicated that the Government policy would in the end be acceptable to the whole people, because it was evident that the Government had not desired to favor specially any particular section of the country. At the present time there were deputations in the city from various parts of Ontario. He had read with much Local Government had not any resources | expenditure connected with the Pacific from which to assist local roads. HowHow- Railway that would at all benefit Ontario, ever, he thought that the members representing Manitoba and British Columbia ought to be well satisfied with the policy of the Government as enunciated by the Premier. Great stress had been laid on the fact that the Pacific Railway was not a railway from the Atlantic to the Pacific coast. He had always understood the policy of the Government to be this at the present time-the water stretches that lay between Georgian Bay and the foot of the Rocky Mountains were to be utilized until the country could build the whole road. He believed there was no part of the present scheme which could not be utilized in subsequent years as part of the general scheme. A statement had been made by the member for Victoria, (B. C.) that $6,000,000 was not a sufficient vote to be taken for one year; and the hon. gentleman complained that ten times that sum had not been placed in the estimates, show-interest the discussions that had taken ing that in this respect the demands of the British Columbians were unreasonable and extravagant. Not only were Manitoba and British Columbia dissatisfied, but a portion of the Province of Quebec was also dissatisfied. The dissatisfaction arose out of the fact of the subsidy having been granted to one road instead of another. If there was one portion of the Dominion more than another going to be benefitted commercially by this railway, it was the Province of Quebec. Another party was opposed to the building of the Georgian bay branch altogether, and the hon member for Cumberland in his speech the other night attempted to prove that there was an unnecessary expenditure upon this work between the Ottawa Valley and the Georgian Bay of between four and five millions of dollars. The same hon. member, however, had no hesitation in asking the House to vote seven or eight million dollars for the construction of another, believed by residents in the same section of the country to be quite unnecessary. The representatives of the Ottawa Valley Mr. MONTEITH said the terms of in past years had endeavored to have a union with British Columbia he underback-bone driven through the back portion stood to be that the Pacific Railway of the Province of Ontario. This railway should be commenced at a certain time would be the back-bone so much desired, and completed within ten years, and such and would materially assist in developing agreement having been made, Canada was the country, which he was informed was bound to keep faith with the British well fitted for settlement, and comprised Columbia people. He had watched closely valuable timber lands. This was the only the acts of the late and present Govern_ Mr. Oliver. place when those delegates were appointed, and he noticed that the chief objection was that an Ontario connecting link had not been subsidized the same as the Canada Central. Supposing the Government agreed to do that, could it be supposed for a moment that these delegates could agree as to what road should receive the subsidy. He regretted that it was not within the power of the Government to subsidize an Ontario line, but after all in the long run it would be found it would be cheaper for Ontario to build the connecting link itself, because the subsidizing of various lines would only cause more expenditure, five-ninths of which was paid by the people of Ontario. He denied that the question of the Pacific Railway policy had not been before the constituents of Ontario at the last election, but held that their policy was discussed at all election meetings, and the elections resulted in returning to this House a large majority of members favorable to the Government railway policy. |