posed dealing with these officers under the new Act, or whether their salaries would remain as formerly. partments, and would comprehend the necessity of securing a superior class of men. Having regard to the salaries paid in Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT—These are Canada to men of moderate attainments, in the hands of the House. Hon. Mr. HOLTON said his hon. friend was right, but the Government had asked for a vote which covered both classes, and he desired to know if they meant also to deal with them in the Act. He did not come there for the purpose of advocating an increase in salaries, and he extremely regretted that almost the first thing a Reform Government found it necessary was to do this same thing. He was disposed to deal liberally with public officers, but he thought this whole scheme might very safely have been left over for another session. Some of the increases were excessive; the increase to the deputy heads entirely so, for their salaries had been only a short time ago raised by a large amount, and now they were going to be still further increased from $3,200 to $3,600—nearly twice the salary of a county judge. No case had been made out for increasing the salaries of the deputy heads of departments as was proposed in the Bill. He regretted that a scheme for the general increase of the salaries of the Civil Service had been felt to be necessary so soon after the Government acceded to office. The fact only showed that if this increase was necessary, the late Government notwithstanding their extravagant expenditures, had not considered the claims of the deserving and hard-working Civil Servants. Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said that every one knew that there had been a large increase in the cost of living within the last ten or fifteen years, or a large deduction in the value of money. It was a question of practical importance for the House to decide whether salaries of £800 rising to £900 were excessive for heads of Departments. He thought their position should be compared to that of the general officers employed under the chiefs of the great railway companies, or to the position of a gentleman occupying a fair position in the legal profession at one of the leading cities. He did not desire to increase the taxation of the country, but to reduce it as soon as possible. Every one would understand to how great an extent the Government in this country depended on the permanent deputy heads of the de Hon. Mr. Holton. Parliament should place the salaries at the top of the scale on a liberal footing. A considerable number of promising Civil Servants had after a considerable number of years left the service on account of higher salaries being offered them than the Government had it within their power to give. Mr. WOOD complained that Civil Servants outside of Ottawa, who had been in office twenty years, only received a salary of $1,060. The only fault to be found with the Bill was its omission to deal with the outside Civil Service. Mr. COLIN MACDOUGALL said that he would support the Bill on the ground that the increase proposed was to secure greater efficiency, as had been__established by the speech of the hon. Finance Minister. Right Hon. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD regretted that as the Government were undertaking a revision of the whole Civil Service Act, they had not brought down in this, or a separate Bill some general system for the management, organization, payment and examination of outside clerks. In the original Civil Service Act, 1831, there was a clause which related to the outside service, but by some accident the schedule which referred to the matter was never attached to the Bill, and therefore did not become law. The omission was never remedied. There was no reference in the present Act to the outside service, and it was for that reason that he suggested to the Premier that the measure might be supplemented in this respect. In order to have the system complete we should have Acts for the inside and outside service, as they had in England, though under a series of Acts instead of a general Act. He agreed with the opinions expressed by hon. members that there should be a wide distinction between the deputy heads and the ordinary departmental officers. They stood in a different position from the clerks, for the deputy heads were permanent Ministers. They were the persons to whom the political leaders must look for all the details of the department. The political leaders must trust, in many cases, implicitly to the deputy heads for the management of the departments, especially when | a change of ministry occurred. Before culty in obtaining for the salaries offered, the Civil Service Act was adopted a the services of the best men. There were gradual scale of salaries was in operation under which the deputy heads was only a step above the chief clerk, receiving an additional salary of perhaps £50; but the subordination under that system was not what was desirable. In England the permanent heads of the departments were men of the first ability drawn from the Universities, and on their retirement they were frequently made peers. The permanent Secretaries of the Foreign Office and the Colonial Office had been called to the peerage. As to the proposed increase to be given to the deputy heads under the Government Bill, at the risk of being considered wanting in economy, he would certainly vote for it. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said this was a question upon which he hoped hon. members would freely express their opinions. Although the Government took the responsibility of introducing the resolution they did so with the view of obtaining discussion thereon. As hon. gentlemen who had taken part in the Government of the country knew there was nothing probably more annoying than the constant demands made by parties in the Civil Service on the heads of the departments. It was well that in a matter of this kind there should be a full expression of opinion by the House because it was not a matter in which the Government felt bound to carry out the ideas contained in the resolutions unless those resoluions should be found to harmonize with the general opinion of the House. He quite concurred in the major part ofthe remarks made by the hon. member for Kingston as to the necessity of obtaining first class men as deputy heads, and more than that, of obtaining good men as heads of the Union Branches. It was certain that the office of Chief Engineer of the Public Works Department would not be filled by an able man possessing the requisite technical knowledge, at a less salary than would be paid by railway or private companies. It was also quite impossible to obtain first class officers for the Finance Department at much less salaries than ordinary banks would be willing to pay. All these points had to be considered; the Government like other people had to enter the labour market and compete for the kind of labour they required, and they found great diffi Hon Sir John A. Nacdonald. undoubtedly numerous applicants for offices at all times, yet occasionally it happened, and it had been so in his own department, that great difficulty was experienced in obtaining suitable men unless the Government was able to offer them fair remuneration for their services. It was a matter that had caused the Government of Canada a great deal of concern, but not more than the Governments of England and the United States. The hon. member for Chateauguay had regretted that the Government had been compelled to propose these increased salaries. The only increases proposed were in the case of the deputy heads. There was a very considerable reduction otherwise when the bonuses, which were distributed during the last two years, were taken into account. In his own department the salaries paid under the present Bill would amount to a very much less sum that the amount paid last year for salaries and bonuses. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL said he had always entertained a different opinion from that held by the right hon. member for Kingston in regard to the position of the deputy heads. He quite agreed with the hon. Premier, that the Government should endeavor to obtain public officers of the utmost efficiency at a fair remuneration. He differed, however, from his right hon. friend in regard to the position occupied by the deputy heads. We, in Canada, ought not to follow the practice in England in this respect, where these officers obtained peerages for their salaries in addition to the high salaries paid them. It was Mr. YOUNG said, from expressions which had fallen in this dicussion, it was likely that misconceptions might arise, and the impression go abroad that there was a considerable increase in salaries through the resolutions before the House. a fact, however, that there was no increase except in the case of deputy heads. He had no hesitation in saying that he would prefer to see no increase in the salaries of these officers. They received salaries equal to the Judges of our county courts, who were men of the highest education and ability. In some few cases the salaries were not too high, but it was equally true that in other departments scores of men could be found to efficiently discharge the duties of these offices for the salaries paid at present. He was glad to see that the Government had decided when any additions. were to be made to the staff, to lay the matter before Parliament. He regretted that some increases had recently been made in the number of officers in the Departments. He would like to have no increase made for a year or two at least. He was sure the Premier was highly desirous of keeping down the expenditure in the departments, and he hoped before next year came round they would find if there was no decrease there would at least be no increase in the expense of the departments. No doubt there were occasions where an increase was necessary, but he hoped there would be a disposition shown to keep down the number of officers. Mr. ROSS (Prince Edward) found fault with the present Government for showing a disposition to increase the salaries of these officials. He hoped the Government would make no increases until next year. Mr. GORDON did not approve of these resolutions. It struck him there were a good many employees about the House and in the service of Parliament who were not required. For instance, he observed a number of men in the lobbies who were apparently without occupation. There was a man sitting on one side of the door to open it in that direction and another on the other side to open it the other way. It frequently happened that neither of them were attending to their business and members had to open the door themselves. Efficient servants should be well paid, but with regard to the deputy heads he did not think it would be found in accord with the mind of the country that they should have an increase. The salary of $2,600 had been increased $600, and now it was proposed to increase it $400 more, with the object, no doubt, of ultimately running it up to $4,000. He was decidedly opposed to any increase in the salaries of deputy heads. The resolutions were adopted and the committee rose and reported. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Wednesday, March 17th, 1875. The SPEAKER took the chair at three o'clock. ST. PATRICK'S DAY. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said it had been customary for the House to adjourn for a portion of St. Patrick's Day-that was, after six o'clock. The St. Patrick's the Society and other bodies waited upon Government some weeks ago to ask for an adjournment this evening. He then communicated with hon. gentlemen on the opposite side of the House to say that so far as he was concerned there was no objection. The House had sat late every night to the present time, and there could be no harm in an early adjournment to-day. He moved that when the House rises at six o'clock it stand adjourned till to-morrow at three o'clock. THE DUTY ON TEA. Mr. DONAHUE asked whether it was the intention of the Government to impose a discriminating duty of ten per cent. on tea coming from the United States. I Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT - With respect to this question, which is one of some interest to a considerable number of parties, the House will allow me to make desire to say in the first place that a few statements in explanation. there have been a very considerable number of petitions against the re-imposition of this duty presented to the Government. On the one side, no doubt, there have been gentlemen, having a large wholesale interest, who have urged its re-imposition, but on the other side, there have been a considerable number of houses, some of them of considerable note, throughthe re-imposition of this particular duty. out the country, who oppose very earnestly Now, I desire to say with regard to this duty, as far as I am informed, it was never imposed by the United States, except when they repealed all duties on tea. When they imposed duties to any considerable amount, they abolished the discriminating duty. I hope that the statement is erroneous, but that is the information given to me. With respect to the general question I may just point out that although I do not at all desire to say that these gentlemen may not be ex posed to hardship, there is no doubt you cannot re-impose this duty of ten per cent. without inflicting a very heavy tax on consumers-that is the people generally—the greater portion of which will not go into the public treasury at all. Under these circumstances, therefore, the Government could not see their way to re-impose this duty. QUEBEC GRAVING DOCK. Mr. FRECHETTE asked whether it is the intention of the Government soon to determine the site for the construction of the proposed Graving Dock for the Port of Quebec; and whether they intend in this matter to trust to the report of the Engineers, Messrs. KIMPLE and MORRIS ? Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-The Government are not to build the dock, and therefore, will not themselves fix upon the site, although, as the Bill before the House will show, as the Government are to guarantee the interest on a certain expenditure they will exercise some control in the location of the dock. While the Government will be bound to see that it is located in such a place as will in all probability meet the public interest, and secure the least expenditure, we do not feel that we ought to exercise absolute control in the selection. THE ORDER OF MOTIONS. Hon. Mr. HOLTON called attention to the fact that the first question on the paper was not put, although the hon. member who should have asked it was present. The rule ought to be rigidly enforced that such motions be moved when reached or dropped. Right Hon. Sir JOHN MACDONALD said if this system had been enforced at the commencement of the session it would have been well, but for several sessions such motions had been allowed to stand if the hon. members interested desired it. If the rule could be stringently enforced it should be so enforced in regard to motions and not questions. He was quite in accord with the hon. member for Chateauguay as to the general principle of allowing motions to remain on the paper. Under the present system the House could not know whether the motion was to be brought up or not; and he thought it was absolutely necessary, if any business was to be done, that the paper should Hon. Mr. Cartwright. be kept clear and that the House should rigidly require that when a motion was reached if the member was not ready to go on with it that it should be dropped, and the hon. gentleman be required to give notice de novo. As an instance of the difficulty of the present system he would mention the fact that the motion of the hon member for Bothwell with respect to the Senate, had been allowed to stand from time to time, and in consequence of the day not being known when. it would be discussed, a good many members were absent. If this House was to be anything more than a body to consider votes upon Government measures, they would have to take cognizance of the rule, which existed here as well as in England, and adhere to it stringently. Mr. SCHULTZ, to whose question Mr. HOLTON had referred, asked leave to withdraw it. THE VETERANS OF 1812. Mr. DELORME asked whether it is the intention of the Government to provide means to prevent the gratuity given to the veterans of 1812-13-14 and 15 from falling into the hands of jobbers or speculators to the detriment of these old militia men. Hon. Mr. VAIL said that the object in asking the vote was to acknowledge the services of the veterans who had se ved in the war of 1812-13-14 and 15, and it would be the duty of the Government so far as possible to see that the money got into the hands of the persons for whom it was voted. PETITION OF S. THEBERGE AND OTHERS. Mr. TASCHEREAU asked whether it is the intention of the Honourable the Minister of Justice to request immediate action on the part of the House on the facts alleged in the petition of S. THEBERGE, Esq., and others; praying for the impeachment of the Honorable Mr. JUSTICE BOSSE, seeing that by the rules of this House, it is impossible, between the present time and the close of the present Session, to take into consideration the motion of which notice has been given on the subject, by the member asking this question? Hon. Mr. FOURNIEK—In reply to the hon. member I may inform him that the question is at present under the consideration of the Government. THE ESCUMINAC LIGHT-HOUSE. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL asked whether it is the intention of the Government to connect Escuminac Light House by a line of Telegraph with the Telegraph system of the Dominion, for the purpose of promoting the greater efficiency of the Storm and Weather signal system, and as a means of conveying timely warning of wrecks, &c., on that coast? Hon. Mr. SMITH in reply was understood to say that the question was, at present, before the department and would receive consideration. WAY OFFICE SYSTEM IN NOVA SCOTIA. Mr. BORDEN asked what is the policy of the Government with regard to the present Way Office system in Nova Scotia, as regards the creation of such offices in the future, and as regards those which are already in existence? Hon. D. A. MACDONALD said it was the intention of the Government to do away with the Way Offices as rapidly as possible. Hereafter there would be no additional Way Offices either in New Brunswick or Nova Scotia. INDIAN VETERANS OF 1812. said that with the permission of the House he would call attention to a subject not on the orders. Some weeks ago he made a motion for a return of the names of all It was those veterans who went up on the first Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said the Government had already decided that in the case of those who had been invalided, not on account of any misconduct of their own, but from sickness contracted in service, their claims would be recognized. Sir JOHN MACDONALD their representatives? And Hon. Mr. POPE asked whether it is the intention of the Government that the Indian veterans of 1812 will be placed upon the same footing as regards pensions as other veterans of that war? If so, what They will evidence of service will be required in be treated in the same way as others who cases where they were not enrolled ? Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said that was a matter that required some consideration, but where the Indians really had fought in the British service their labours would be recognized, proof, of course, being required. He thought, however, there would be no difficulty in obtaining that informa tion. BAYFIELD HARBOR. Mr. McISAAC asked whether it is the intention of the Government to send Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said, in reply, that an Engineer of the Department would examine those places sometime during the ensuing season, but he could not state when. LAND GRANTS TO VOLUNTEERS. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE were entitled to it. PRIVATE AND LOCAL BILLS. The House went into Committee on a Bill to confirm articles of agreement and North American Railway Company for consolidation between the European and North American Railway Company for extension from St. John, westward, and the European and North American Railway Company of Maine, and for other purposes (as amended by Standing Committee on Railways, Canals and Telegraph Lines.) Mr. CASGRAIN in the chair. it his duty to call the attention of the Minister of Justice to this Bill. It was considered with some care by the committee on Banking and Commerce, and was referred to a sub-committee, which made some amendments, but the Bill itself was of somewhat an exceptional and extraordinary character. Having, as Hon. Mr. HOLTON said he considered Right Hon. Sir JOHN MACDONALD | chairman of the committee, called the Hon. Mr. Mitchell. |