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an allowance. There was also the duties in those respective capacities, Attorney-General, who went away to the County Court Acts of Great another Province; he claimed a retir- Britain were adopted and applied to ing allowance; but Lord Carnarvon the Province of British Columbia, and relieved the Government of that claim these stipendiary magistrates were by giving the gentleman an appoint. given County Court jurisdiction under ment in some other colony. These those Acts. Those Acts were also ap

officers who, having been plied in time to the old Province of appointed, had to be provided for Vancouver Island, but, after the union without reference to what their duties of these two Provinces, the laws were, because they were appointed by were assimilated. When Confoderathe Imperial Government; that made tion came about, one of the objections it a sine qua non that they should have to the union with Canada was made retiring allowances.

by gentlemen who formed the Execu

tive Council of the Province with MR. MACKENZIE said these stipen- regard to those Judges and stipendiary diary magistrates exercised civil juris- magistrates, and they insisted that, diction in certain districts ; therefore, before they would consent to Union, they were on the same footing as County there must be a provision in the terms Court Judges. This division, under of Union the treaty, did not require stipendiary in case of their removal. That con

for pensions for them magistrates as such, but so far as they cession was made, and, as would be performed the duties of civil Judge for found from the terms of Union, it was these districts, it was the duty of this

not a movement on the part of the Parliament to provide compensation. Imperial Governmect, but was the He understood a correspondence was

action of the Local Government itselfgoing on with the Local Government, the Governinent of the Province, of with a view to see if they would as

which he was at that time Premiersimilate their system to

that of

that these County Court Judges and Ontario, and if they agreed to do that, magistrates should still discharge their and make the two systems uniform, duties in the manner they had before it would be necessary that this vacan

Confederation. He had had a great cy, caused by the death of Mr. Bushby, deal to do with the late Administration, should be filled

up
because of the

and not much to do with the present civil jurisdiction he exercised at the

one, with a view of enabling the Protime of the Union. If they were

vincial Government to compel these County Court Judges in the discharge gentlemen to perform the same duties of civil duties, then it would be neces

since Confederation as they had done sary for this Government to appoint a

before. But, he believed, these were County Court Judge, and make pro- now, virtually, only County Court vision for his salary.

Judges, and had managed very successMR. DECOSMOS said that, when fully to escape from the Provincial the introduction of emigrants and gold duties which it was expected they miners took place in British Columbia, would perform until the Provincial it became necessary to appoint gold Government was ready to appoint commissioners. They were persons who certified barristers to sit upon the received applications with regard to

Bench. mines, and they were also made Justices of the Peace. With regard to the state- MR. MACKENZIE said his hon. ment of the hon. gentleman opposite friend from Cariboo (Mr. Thompson) (Sir John A. Macdonald) that they were

had shown him the Acts. The first had appointed by the Imperial Government, been passed in 1867, which established he might say that they were County Court Judges and provided not appointed as stipendiary magis- that it would be lawful for the Governtrates or County Court Judges by ment of British Columbia to appoint that Government; they were Govern- any stipendiary magistrate or Justice ment agents, gold commissioners and of the Peace for the colony to be a land commissioners; and a year or County Court Judge. The stipendiary two after they had exercised their magistrate, as such, was not a County

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Court Judge, but the Act enabled the MR. DECOSMOS said there was no
Lieutenant-Governor to appoint such real necessity for the County Court
stipendiary magistrate or Justice of Act to come into force in order to
the Peace, as he might choose, to be a enable the Government to appoint a
County Court Judge. There was a County Court Judge under the English
subsequent Act of the 10th March, Statute. Common law applied to the
1869, wbich provided that every Province of British Columbia; the
stipendiary magistrate should have appointments could be made by this
certain jurisdiction that any one or Government as well as the Provincial
more Justices of the Peace may have, Government.
and so on; showing that the offices of

MR. MACKENZIE said the salaries
stipendiary magistrate and of County
Court Judge were two distinct offices, One of those 'Stipendiary Magistrates

were not, at present, at all uniform. although they might be held by the received $3,400 ; another, $3,000; this same person. The appointment of

one received $2,425, and there were Superior Court Judges or County or two others who received $2,250. The District Judges rested with the Dom- salary would not be necessarily fixed, inion Government.

and if it were, it would, as nearly as

possible, be the correct one.
MR. LAFLAMME said that by the
statute of 1873 these magistrates had

SIR JOHN A. MACDONALD said been admitted and recognised as the salaries had been fixed according County Court Judges, and the statute to the comparative duties. Some of stated positively they should be the magistrates in the rich gold dispaid the actual salary so long tricts had heavier duties and larger as they remained in office. Judge salaries than others.

But he thought Bushby was dead, and, therefore, they should think twice

the the Government asked Parliament to matter. replace him.

As the Statute recog- MR. MACKENZIE: I think we nized him as County Court Judge, the ought to put it to the voto. obligation to replace him devolved

SIR JOHN A. MACDONALD: You upon the Dominion Government.

ought to take of vote of $2.000 in

That was SIR JOHN A. MACDONALD said stead of £500 sterling.

considered

in the Statute did not provide that a

Ontario.
Stipendiary Magistrate was er oficio
County Court Judge. They had to MR. MACKENZIE said, with regard
pay the salaries of the Stipendiary to County Court Judges, it was ex.
Magistrates found there

Here was

tremely difficult at this moment to get a salary to be provided, of $2,000, and å good County Judge.

Under the they must, at any rate, strike out the operation of the Act of 1873, the words “Stipendiary Magistrate." He greatest inconvenience had been caused wished to point out to the hon. the the Government in endeavouring to Premier the great objection to this fill vacant judgeships. At present, it item passing as it stood. It would not was almost impossible to obtain the affect the case of the present Stipon- best legal gentlemen to fill vacancies diary Magistrates who, he believed, in important counties, and the truth had, as a matter of fact, commissions as was in some cases it was very doubtCounty Court Judges, and who had ful whether the existing Judges would their salaries fixed; but it did not fol-retain their places. He had paid little low that they should give this salary attention, at the time, to that particuof £500 sterling to County Court lar Act, but he had never coated to Judges. It would be exceedingly in- regrot, that it had passed. He did not convenient to bind themselves to fix think it would be possible, in the all the salaries of County Court Judges future, to avoid making some increaso at £500 sterling. Whenever this Act in the salaries of County Court Judges, came into force, it would become the at all events in such counties as duty of the Government to settle the York, Wentworth, Middlesex, Simcoe, salary.

Halifax, St. John, with their enormous

an

enormous

sum

populations, and where the salaries ies, he thought the amount named, , were wholly inadequate to procure the £500, could not be considered best men.

excessive. It would be impossible to SIR JOHN A. MACDONALD: In get a gentleman of legal training, comYork, the salary is equal to that of a petent to perform the duties of that Judge of the Supreme Court.

Office, for a smaller sum. MR. MACKENZIE: Equal to $4,000

MR. DECOSMOS said that, instead of at the outside ; that of ihe Judge of $2,425, the salary should he $2,500, Middlesex was $2,000. A few Judges of and he would suggest, if possible, that some of the smaller districts had larger that amount should be given. salaries. He did not think the sum of MR. MACKAY (Cape Breton) said $2,400 would be too large a salary for that the County Court Judges of the a County Court Judge in Columbia. Province of Nova Scotia were dissatis.

Mr. MacDONNELL said some of fied with the method which had been the judgeships in Nova Scotia were adopted of remunerating them for going begging. They had been offered travelling expenses. They were supto several gentlemen. A gentleman posed to be put on the same footing as whose practice at the Bar was not the County Court Judges of the Proover $2,000, was hardly a fit practi- vince of Ontario; yet the latter, who tioner to be allowed on the Bench. If

If had only one county to preside over, they were to have Judges competent received the same amount for travelto discharge their duties, there must ling expenses as the former, some of be some inducement offered in the whom had to travel over three districts, shape of increased salaries.

He thought the Government should MR. THOMPSON (Cariboo) said it adopt some method of increasing the had been remarked that the salaries of allowance for travelling expensos to County Court Judges varied The

those gentlemen. County Court Judge of Cariboo MR. MITCHELL said they had a received $2,400. These had been County Court Judge in the northern fixed differentially on account of the district of New Brunswick, comprising expense of living, or the work in the three important counties of Restisome districts being greater than in gouche, Gloucester and Northumberothers. The jurisdiction of the County land. The salary of that Judge was Court in Cariboo was very extensive, inadequate to the service he had to and, since the opening of the new perform. quartz mines, would become still more MR. SPEAKER said there was no extended. The County Court Judges difference in the salaries paid, but a had declined to act as gold commis- difference should be made. Judge sioners, and as receivers of revenue and Waters

Water's performed almost as much other offices,

they did

pre- work as all the other County Court viously. What was called the mining Judges in New Brunswick, and it was jurisdiction of the County Court was work, moreover, of a much more ima separate Court. The jurisdiction of portant character. St. John was the the County Court properextended prin- great centre of the trade of the Procipally to sums not exceeding £500, vince. For some time, there was no but the Mining Jurisdiction Court Judge of the Superior Court residing extended to any amount, as it was there, and at the present time, there simply impossible to place a value upon was only one, the remaining four, to any suit that came in regarding mines. suit their own convenience and to It was necessary that the officer enable thom to save money, lived at appointed to perform such duty should | Fredericton. Judge Duff was the be a man of experience, calculated to only Superior Court Judye residing in carry out the law thoroughly. The St. John, and nearly all the applications County Court Judge of the district of in Chambers were made to Judge Cariboo was not a lawyer, and never Wators, in addition to his own work had legal training, yet had proved and the heavy labours thrown upon himself to be wonderfully adapied for him in connection with the operations the situation he held. As regards salar- of the Insolvent Act. That Judge was

as

was

occupied every day in the

the year, ( he believed that Judge Waters did except when on circuit, in Chambers; not receive sufficient remuneration, he indeed, he did much more work than was satisfied the salary paid to Judge the Superior Court Judges, and that Williston, who travelled in the three too, of almost equal importance. The northern counties, and whose work Local Legislature had chosen to ex. had been largely increased by Provintend very largely the jurisdiction of cial legislation, should be increased. the County Court Judges, and in that way had increased their labours; but MR. BUNSTER said he was surfrom the very circumstances of the prised at hon, members having taken case, and the fact that the Bar had a objection to items in the Estimates very high degree of confidence in the for the administration of justice in ability, integrity and industry of Judge British Columbia, in view of the heavy Waters, they went to him with every cost of living and travelling expenses case it was possible to bring before a in that Province. It was not the first County Court Judge. He understood time the interests of British Columbia the Bar had addressed a memorial to the had been attacked. Even the late Governor-General or the Minister of Minister of Marine and Fisheries had Justice, expressing the opinion, which not properly discharged his duties,

one in which every one was because he was ignorant of the valuaacquainted with the work concurred ble fisheries of the Pacific Province, in, that Judge Waters' salary was far otherwise he would have made intoo small and should be increased

creased grants for the protection of to $3,000, in addition to what he the fisheries, and the maintenance of received as Judge of the Vice-Admi-fish-breeding establishments. Their ralty Court. He (Mr. Speaker) did annual exports of fish amounted in not pretend to say that Judge Williston value 'to $450,000. An additional was overpaid, but, from personal know- Judge should be appointed for New ledge, he was aware that Judge Waters Westminister, as his services would be had a great deal more work to do, and required next season ; that district that, in fact, his work, in the course of already contained 3,000 people, and the year, almogl equalled that of the before two years had elapsel, would whole of the County Court Judges. probably have 20,000. It was desira.

ble that justice should be administered MR. MITCHELL said he had not in British Columbia after the British attempted to undervalue the duties dis- model, and it must be remembered charged by Judge Waters, who was that no Province caused less expense an old colleague of his, and a gentle to the Dominion in regard to the ad. man of great ability, and highly ministration of justice.

For the respected by the profession. He was maintenance of the Mounted Police in not aware, however, of the accumula the North-West, $120,000 was annually tion of duties which he had been called required, but tho people of British upon to discharge, and that the Su- Columbia, recognizing the necessity perior Court Judges of New Brunswick of maintaining law and order, did not should so far have neglected their involve any cost to Canada on that duties as to have permitted such oner- head ; and it was only reasonable to ous duties to have fallen upon that give to New Westminister a Judge, in Judge, instead of the work bein. case delinquent creditors should desire properly divided. If the Superior to abscond to the United States. He Judges had removed Fred- felt that the people of that district had ericton to reside, for the purpose

no representative on the floor of the of effecting, economy, and the pub- House, which should not be the case, lic interest had thereby suffered, the and as a British Columbian, he felt he attention of the proper authorities had a double duty to perform. It was should be given to the matter; and well known that the writ had not yet they should see that those Judges, at left; and the late member had not all events, divided with Judge Waters dare to come back here, because he the business which they, as Superior had not voted in the interests of the Court Judges, ought to perform. While Province, while this was the next most

to

V.POLICE.

to

matter.

important district to his own. He SIR JOHN A. MACDONALD : wished to draw the attention of the While talking

While talking of the necessity of hon. tho Minister of Justice to the im. guarding the public buildings, I would portance of appointing a stipendiary mention that I think, last Session, a magistrate in Westminister.

gentleman, who, I think, is an archiMr. WADE said that the stipendiary tect in Ottawa, said to me that some magistrates in the county of Digby day or other thero would be a great were very inadequately paid for the fire here, and that all these buildings labour perfornied.

must go, owing to the great collection

of paper in the attics; and that, if a Vote agreed to.

fire once got in, with the long sweep

there, those buildings must go. I 34. Dominion Police .....

$11,000 would like to know if the attention of Mr. MITCHELL said, by reference the hon. gentleman at the head of the

Government has been called to this the Public Accounts,

page 77, he saw that the expenditure last year under this item was $11,355.62,

MR. MACKENZIE said that this and a note informed them that Mr.

had been the case.

His attention was Coursol was superannuated on the 30th November, 1872, and the force under called to it immediately after he his command disbanded. What

, then, assumed charge of his Departr.ent. .

A very large portion of the money was this $11,000 for?

lately spent on the buildings, was MR. MACKENZIE: Only the Mon- spent in erecting fire-walls to the treal part was disbanded.

summit of the roots, and in making MR. MITCHELL: I thought that breaks in several places. Orders had the Montreal force was a very con

been issued by himself concerning the siderable part of it.

accumulations of paper.

A small fire MR. CARTWRIGHT: It was com

had taken place in this building on a posed of a few detectives, who were

very recent occasion, which, so far as appointed some years ago.

he was able to ascertain by investigaMR. MITCHELL: Where is the rest waste-rags, saturated with oil, thrown

tion, proved to have originated in some of the force ?

into a box in a corner under the postMR. LAFLAMME: Here in Ottawa. office. This produced a very dangerMR. MITCHELL: How many are

ous fire.

He was sorry to say that there?

some serious defects bad, in this reMR. LAFLAMME: Eighteen.

gard, been discovered in the building, Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD: Is which was supposed to be entirely fire the number increased this year ?

proof. Since then, another care

ful examination had been made MR. LAFLAMME: Since the exten- of the buildings by the architect and sion of the buildings, two men have his assistants, with the view to see that been put on, one to act as a keeper, every possible defect should be careand the other as policeman.

fully attended to. He might further MR. MITCHELL: In these hard say that they had never thought of times is it necessary to increase the insuring these buildings, and they did number of police?

not think yet of it; but the very serious

loss that occurred at St. John, whereby MR. CARTWRIGHT: I do not think

a loss of at least half a million had that there are too many for these been caused, had rather changed his buildings.

own mind as to the desirability of MR. MACKENZIE: I assure you insuring; and they would propose, in we have not. It is of the utmost im- the Supplementary Estimates, to take portance that these buildings should a small sum for the purpose of insube looked after, owing to the risk of ring to some extent the buildings fire and of people breaking in. It is they had in other cities than Ottawa. indispensible to have good men, and to With the aid of the police and the have the buildings well guarded. supervision of the immediate officers

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