expressed for a change in the Act. At the late meeting of the Dominion Board of Trade in the city of Ottawa, & motion was moved by Mr. W. E. Sandford (Hamilton), seconded by Mr. F. Clemow (Ottawa)— "That this Board urge upon the Government the repeal of the Stamp Act upon promissory notes and bills of exchange, believing the revenue from this source is in no sense an equivalent consideration in view of the vexations and frauds occasioned by the collection of this tax." A debate ensued upon this resolution, and an amendment was proposed by no less an authority than Mr. Andrew Robertson, of Montreal, seconded by Mr. Darling, of the same city, to the following effect: "That all the words after "that' be omitted and the following substituted: The law be so amended as to allow either the maker or the endorser to stamp bills or promissory notes, and that, in addition to the stamps at present in use, stamped paper be introduced to as large an extent as possible.' The amendment was carried, and the Dominion Board of Trade gave its ad hesion to the proposition which, in its modified form, would he represented by the present Bill. MR. MITCHELL asked what was the majority in favour of the amend ment. MR. DYMOND said the vote was 21 to 11. MR. JONES (South Leeds) said the people in cities and towns might be favourable to a Stamp Act, but in the rural districts it was very inconvenient and a cause of great loss. Many sheets of stamped paper would be destroyed, but a person would be compelled to spoil $500 worth before he would be able to have the money refunded. He agreed with the opinion expressed by the hon. member for Northumberland, that it was a most vexatious tax upon the mercantile and business classes; and some other means should be adopted for raising revenue. MR. WHITE (North Renfrew) sa'd that if the Bill were permissive,the principle objection to it would be removed. It would, doubtless, be a great convenience, in many instances, to have stamped paper instead of adhesive stamps, which frequently became detached from documents. Every tax was objectionable to those who had to pay it, and this mode of raising revenue was not more objectionable than others. It was true that stamped paper might be spoilt in using, but provision was made for recovering the amount of stamps. And it appeared to him that some provision should be made by which parties who sold this stamped paper could redeem it in smaller amounts than $5; and that, when they collected $5 worth of stamped paper, it might then be returned. If some such provision were made, and the clause with respect to the use of stamped paper were made permissive instead of compulsory, the principal objections to the Bill would be removed. MR. MACDONALD (Centre Toronto) said they had not heard the Government explanations of the Bill, and it might, perhaps, be premature to say what were the explanations of cumstances, he thought the suggestion some of the clauses. Under these cir of the hon. member for Charlevoix ought to be adopted and the Bill recast. If this Bill were put into operation as proposed, every mercantile man would want to have continually before him what the provisions of the Bill were, and it would be extremely inconvenient, not only to have this Act law, but also to be compelled to refer to the former Act; and hence, it would be well to recast the Act. If the word "re ceipt" introduced in the second clause was intended to apply to ordinary receipts, it occurred to him that this would be a very harassing clause. Perhaps, the hon. the Minister of Finance would explain that particular item. MR. LAURIER: This does not change any provision that at present exists. It is substantially the same clause that is already in the Act. MR. MACDONALD said that so far it was satisfactory; but he thought it would be found of very great importance to have the suggestion which had been made carried out, and to have the Bill recast. MR. PALMER said he had never understood that the present Act required stamps on anything except promissory notes. or bills of exchange; and here it seemed to be provided that they should be placed on receipts or documents of any kind. All this distinctly showed the great necessity existing for recasting the Bill, which, as it stood, would certainly lead to a great deal of confusion. The decision of the Board of Trade proved that fraud had arisen in connection with the Stamp Act, the want of a proper stamp sometimes enabling the person interested to defend it in a Court of law. He entirely agreed with the hon. member for Northumberland, and held that this tax was unjust. It placed too heavy a burden on a particular class in the Dominion; and the very people who were trying to carry on the business and to develop the resources of the country were those most taxed by it. Those who were obliged to borrow were generally poor, and the result was that a very large and onerous tax was levied on that class, which was entirely unjust, independent of the great annoyance it was to everyone concerned to have this taxation levied; and, if it could be raised in some other way, or if the old law was allowed to remain, unless the Government could remodel the whole thing this Session, and put it all in one Act, it would be better to drop this measure of legislation. The interpretation of the Act in this relation in the different Provinces had led to an immense amount of litigation, and he could cite half a dozen cases in which the Judges of the Supreme Court were two one way, and three the other. There were now two or three Acts amending the Stamp Act, he believed; his hon. friend from Richelieu had a Bill before the House, and also, he thought, an hon. gentleman from Hamilton; and, if the Government would drop this Bill and endeavour to consolidate the whole law in this respect, it would be better to follow that course. He hoped that after the election-if this matter was dropped altogether-either the present or some new Government could manage to carry on the business of the country without this taxation at all, and to do so would be to confer a great benefit on the country. MR. MACDOUGALL (East Elgin) said he sympathized very much with what the hon. member for Centre Toronto had stated respecting the Bill. The law relating to stamps was one which had caused considerable difficulty, and which had been a fruitful source of law suits. Perhaps he should not find fault with it on that account; but, nevertheless, this was the case. He considered the suggestion made by the hon. gentleman one worthy of consideration on the part of the hon. gentlemen who were promoting the Bill. The law should be consolidated, and so distinctly recast that it could be clearly law was understood; and, if this enacted, with the laws already in existence with regard to stamps, the difficulty in this relation would be increased. It was quite evident that this measure would require very close discussion indeed, and, instead of simplifying the law relating to stamps, as it existed at present, this would only add to the difficulty. He was very happy to hear the hon. the Premier say that he did not wish to insist upon the adoption of what was called the compulsory clause. If this was done, it would certainly be unpopular in the rural districts, and it would lead to the difficulty and trouble which had been pointed out. If the Government could see their way clear to the adoption of the suggestion of the hon. gentleman, with respect to the recasting or the consolidation of the law regarding stamps, this would certainly, he thought, give greater satisfaction to the country, and, unless the public interests public interests and pressing necessities at the present time required the adoption of this measure, he must candidly say he believed it would be in the public interest for the Government to consider whether it would not be advisable to withdraw this measure with the view of submitting a measure that would embody the whole of the law relating to stamps. MR. HOLTON said the remarks of his hon. friend from South Leeds (Mr. Jones) had led him to refer to the Journals of 1864, when the stamp duties were first inflicted upon the country. He quite agreed with the hon. gentleman that, if the finances of the country were in such a condition (Mr. Currier) anticipated, the Govas to justify the repeal of this tax alto- ernment ought to drop it. Objectionable gether, he would rejoice very much. as the present law was, the people at He also wholly agreed with the hon. all events understood how it worked, members for Northumberland and but to introduce this new system East Peterborough in regarding it as a would disturb everything. It would vexatious tax upon trade which the have this other effect: it would serve country ought to be relieved from at to make the Stamp Law more perthe earliest possible moment. He manent than if it were left alone as it (Mr. Holton), in 1864, on the second was; and he hoped that, before many reading of the Bill, had moved the six years passed, the finances of the counmonths' hoist, and he found that the try would allow this taxation to be name of the hon. member for South altogether abolished; they therefore Leeds was recorded against his motion, should do nothing that would in any so that it hardly became the hon. gentle-way serve to make this law any more man to complain very much of this permanent than it now was. Government for not relieving the country of the tax which he (Mr. Jones) had insisted in inflicting upon it. MR. WOOD said he could not add to the stock of information which the House already possessed regarding this law, further than to say he thought the Government would do well to take into consideration the suggestion made with reference to the consolidation of the law relating to stamps. The họn. the Premier had said that the use of stamped paper was to be optional, and the two systems would be preferable to having the use of such paper made compulsory. It would be a great hardship on people in the country who, not being in the habit of drawing notes, frequently spoiled one or two before they did so properly. If such use was made compulsory the best thing that possibly could be done would be to withdraw this Bill and consolidate the whole Stamp Act; and then they would know how it stood. When half a dozen Acts existed, the services of lawyers had to be obtained, and these gentlemen did not aid business men for nothing. The suggestion for consolidation, if adopted, would benefit the country at large. MR. CURRIER said he hoped the Government would see their way clear to withdraw this Bill altogether. Of all the taxation we had, that collected by means of stamps was the most objectionable. Unless the hon. the Finance Minister expected to obtain more money by reason of this law than he It ask if it was the intention of the Gov- He MR. BAIN said he had observed that this Act did not affect the agricultural population so materially as it did the business men. noticed that, where the amount involved the use of a three cent stamp, the use of stamped paper was not required. He had distributed a few copies of the Bill among his friends; and, in making a flying visit to his constituency last week, some of them drew his attention to this matter, and stated they thought it would be a serious inconvenience to them if they were to obliged stamped paper, raising the same objection that had been made by the hon. member for Charlevoix, and he had suggested that, if the Government would make the measure permissive, this would obviate the difficulty, and his friends had agreed that it would, so far as the banking element was concerned; if it was desirable that find this stamped paper should be introduced, he thought that, perhaps, the difficulty 'could be obviated by having this provision made permissive, as the Government proposed. He felt that, if the Bill was carried out as submitted, serious objections would be made to it, judging from the expressions of opinion which he had heard from some of his business friends quite recently. MR. PATERSON said that, no doubt, the hon. the Premier would feel that some material alterations would have to be made in the Bill. He desired to ask the hon. the Minister of Inland Revenue, in case he proceeded with the Bill, whether he might not, in the interests of the public generally, make alterations in the law as it already existed. This tax was not regarded favourably by any one in Canada, and he agreed in the view that, if the necessary revenue could be raised without it, the Government would obtain the thanks of the community by altogether abolishing the law; but while it remained- and it must remain this year he thought the House would agree that some improvements might be made in the law which was in force. It seemed to him that provision should be made to abolish the double duty, and compel the holder of the note to stamp it. It was further not desirable that any one should take advantage of the Stamp Act to evade the payment of a just and lawful debt. This had been more than once attempted. It appeared to him that the law applying to the acceptance of a note or draft from the United States, where, instead of the person accepting, the drawer was required to stamp it, might be made applicable to all notes or drafts passing from hand to hand in Canada. A large amount of stamped paper passed through the bank by way of discount; and it would be easy to make a clause compulsory by which all the paper in the banks would be properly stamped, and this would give the holder of the note the privilege of stamping it. A note A note was only an evidence of the debt given for the accommodation of the party to whom the debt was owed, and there would be nothing wrong in asking the holder of SIR JOHN A. MACDONALD said that this Bill seemed to get rather bad measure at the hands of the friends of his hon. friend the Minister of Inland Revenue; but the hon. gentleman must expect this kind of thing occasionally when a question of this nature, involving the taxation of the people, came up. He rose to say that he was quite surprised to hear hon. members representing rural districts applying for doing away with the stamp duties. It occurred to him that, if we were going to raise a system of taxation at all, this mode of taxation ought certainly to be free from objection of the the part of farmer and of the workingman. They did not suffer any appreciable inconvenience, and it was rather selfish on the part of commercial men to seek to do away with a perfectly fair tax, and render it necessary for the Finance Minister to tax other properties-a system which might, perhaps, press heavily on the rural population of this country as well as the working class. Bill read the second time, on a Division. House adjourned at Half past on Twelve o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, 20th March, 1878. The Speaker took the Chair at Three o'clock. PRAYERS. LANDS DAMAGED BY WATER. QUESTION. MR. MITCHELL enquired, Whether it is the intention of the Government Messrs. to pay Robert Gremly, Thomas Quigly, Thomas Flynn and others, whose lands have been damaged by the officers of the Intercolonial Railway taking their supply of water through their lands; and if so, when? MR. MACKENZIE: They were offered the value of the damages, which they refused to accept. MR. MITCHELL: That is incorrect. QUESTION. MR. MITCHELL enquired, Whether it is the intention of the Gov ernment to pay William Jones and Brothers, for damages done to their mills by diverting the water of the stream which supplies their mills for the purpose of supplying the Station at Newcastle with water; and if so, when? MR. MACKENZIE : Whenever it is found to be due. The matter is at present under the consideration of the Department of Justice. PAPERS RELATING TO THE LATE WILLIAM TAYLOR'S SERVICES. QUESTION. MR. LANTHIER enquired, Whether papers relating to the services of the late William Taylor, which were called for by an Order of the House on the the 20th February last, will soon be brought down? MR. MACKENZIE: I am not able to say when they can be brought down, as these papers refer to a long way back; but they will be brought down as soon as possible. SUPERVISOR OF CULLERS' OFFICE. QUESTION. MR. CURRIER en juired, Whether any permanent Clerks have been appointed in the office of the Supervisor of Cullers, Quebec, since the 1st of November last; and if so, at what salary, and whether it is in contemplation to make any further appoint- | ments of Clerks in said office? MR. LAURIER: There has been no such appointment made since the 1st of November last, and it is not contemplated to make any appointments that would increase the number of the staff employed in that office. QUESTIONS BY MEMBERS. REMARKS. MR. KIRKPATRICK said, before the notices of motions were called, he would like to call attention to the manner in which answers to questions from members were given. He thought that, if there was any information to be given on these questions, it was, at least, the duty of the Minister who was to make the answer, to endeavour to find out from his Department the facts of the case, and not come down to the House and say he was not aware of this or of that thing having been done. A question had been put reference to the re-payment to the to the Ministry, on Monday last, with had been made on the Neebing Hotel, Government of any over-charges that and the hon. the Minister—— MR. MACKENZIE: Is this discussion in order, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. gentleman is not in order. MR. KIRKPATRICK: I am not discussing the question. MR. MACKENZIE: I rise to a question of order. MR. KIRKPATRICK: I wish to call attention to this matter for guidance in the future, to show that care should be taken, that the information which is to be given to the House- MR. SPEAKER: I think that the hon. member is now lecturing the Government. MR. KIRKPATRICK: No; I am only calling attention to a particular question. It is sworn that the money had been repaid—— MR. SPEAKER: The hon. gentleman is out of order. It is customary for hon. members to ask the Goverument for any special information between the various calls from the Chair for the day, before Notices of Motion or the Orders of the Day. I am not aware that· any hon. member has a positive right even to do that; but I think he must confine himself entirely to asking the information from the Government, and he must not proceed to descant on the conduct of the Government. This, of course, he can do at the proper time |