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Mr. BARNARD. It will be $18,000.
Mr. Rogers. And under the revised figures you request $50,000?
Mr. BARNARD. The estimated expenditure is $68,000.

Mr. ROGERS. $50,000 in your revised figures and the estimated unexpended balance of $18,000, making $68,000?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

SALARY INCREASES.

Mr. Rogers. Will you please indicate in detail any increases of salary which go into the $41,110 asked for salaries for the ensuing year?

Mr. BARNARD. Here is the salary list. There is an estimated increase in the salaries of $9,230. If the bonus that has been paid is continued there will be an actual net increase of $8,030, or an increase of 23 per cent. Gentlemen, I should like to make a statement as to the reasons

Mr. ROGERS (interposing). Before you do that, will you indicate in detail where those increases are ?

Mr. BARNARD. They are right here [indicating].
Mr. ROGERS. You are asking an increase of $2,500 for yourself?
Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. Rogers. An increase of $1,000 for your topographic engineer?
Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS. An increase of $320 for your chief clerk and disbursing officer?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rogers. You are asking an increase of $790 for your associate hydrographic and geodetic engineer?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes; but that would not be quite as large, because those men are drawing $240 additional.

Mr. ROGERS. You are asking an increase of $790 for your associate hydrographic and geodetic engineer and for your associate cartographic engineer and for your associate mathematician, and you are asking an increase of $720 for your assistant topographic engineer, of $780 for your assistant hydrographic and geodetic engineer, of $280 for another assistant hydrographic and geodetic engineer, of $300 for an assistant topographic

engineer, of $240 for your junior mathematician, of $240 for the stenographer-clerk, and $480 fing for your cartographic draftsman, making the total of salaries $41,110 as against $31,880 for the organization for the current and past fiscal years?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rogers. But you say, so far as the salaries of all but the first two gentlemen are concerned, that they already have a bonus of $240 on top of the salary, and therefore the amount asked for should be in effect reduced by $240 ?

Mr. BARNARD. There is a 23 per cent increase.

Mr. ROGERS. Assuming that the Government continues the bonus of $240, your estimate for all but the first few salaries should be reduced by $240 ?

Mr. BARNARD. No, sir; because the salaries are just what they are actually to receive, taking into consideration that when they get above $2,500 they do not receive the $240 bonus.

Mr. ROGERS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BARNARD. There are only 11 persons at present who receive the bonus of $240 a year. If these promotions were made there would be but six employees who would receive the $240 bonus a year.

Mr. Elston. As to the last employee, who formerly had been receiving $1,320 with the bonus of $240, the increase with the bonus would raise his salary to $2,040, whereas your copyist topographic draftsman is getting $1,320 with the bonus he will be getting $1,800 with the bonus?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir; permit me to explain that. That is a man who was transferred. There is a very unfortunate law in existence at the present time that no man can receive additional compensation where he is transferred until after 12 months, one year, have elapsed. This man, a very competent man, was transferred from the Geological Survey for a lack of funds. He would have been promoted had he stayed there until July. It has been impossible for me to do anything for that man until April and so when April comes I will give him $1,800.

Mr. ELSTON. This table of compensation which obtained last year, is it fixed by the provisions of the law or is it regulated by the civil service ?

Mr. BARNARD. It is a lump-sum appropriation.

Mr. Elston. Have you the rigt to distribute the salaries as you see proper?

Mr. BARNARD. Fortunately or unfortunately the question of appointing these men and fixing their salaries is absolutely vested in me, and I have been governed in making up this list, as I thought I was compelled to, by the estimated salaries that have been submitted for the coming year by the other technical and scientific branches of the Government.

Mr. Rogers. This table showing the compensation of the organization as of September 1, last, includes the bonus where the bonus is pavable?

Mr. BARNARD. It does not, because the bonus does not come out of my appropriation. Mr. Rogers. I wanted to have that perfectly clear. Mr. BARNARD. I could just indicate where the bonus is paid.

Mr. ROGERS. That is, all salaries under $2,500; that is, all these salaries but two are increased by the $240 bonus?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS. Of course, Mr. Barnard, the inquiry is instantly raised why, when your field work has been completed after many years, you should come before Congress at a time when retrenchment is imperative, and ask for increases, in some cases as high as 50 per cent, in salaries?

Mr. BARNARD. In submitting this estimate to the Secretary of State I made this statement: In order to retain the services of a thoroughly efficient technical force required for the completion of the work of this commission it is necessary that the commission should pay at least the average salary that will be paid for like services in other bureaus of the Government, and it is especially desirable, if not essential, for the continued efficient prosecution of the work of the commission that men now employed, who are thoroughly familiar with the boundary work, should be retained until the work of the commission has reached a state of completion where their services can be dispensed with. The estimates submitted for salaries of the permanent force of this commission have been arrived at after careful consideration, and it is believed that the amounts named are reasonable under present conditions for the services rendered, and that they are as low, if not lower, than the estimates for salaries for similar services which have been or will be submitted by the chiefs of the technical bureaus in the Departments of the Interior, Commerce, and Agriculture.

If I wish to keep a contented force, loyal to me, and prevent them seeking other jobs, I must pay at least the salaries paid for similar services in the other bureaus of the Government.

Mr. Elston. Did you make a similar estimate last year?
Mr. BARNARD. To some extent. Gentlemen, let me say also

Mr. ELSTON (interposing). The price of living is supposed to be going down?

Mr. BARNARD. We came in contact with the Canadian branch of the commission and I took the liberty of asking Mr. McArthur to tell me what increases in salary had been made in the last few years, and it was 33% per cent since April, 1919. They have 13 men.

Mr. ROGERS. They are getting now practically the salaries paid here?

Mr. BARNARD. The commissioner is getting $5,200 and will get $5,500. The engineer is getting $3,480 and he has a bonus when he goes in the field of about $1,000 to $1.500 a year, so his salary for last year was not less than $1,500 or $3,000, and so on down the line. The salaries are a little less, as they are expected to be.

Before I prepared this estimate I consulted with the officers of the Coast and Geodetic Survey and the officers of the Geological Survey, performing almost the identical class of work, and, considering do not know what the attitude of the Government is going to be as to increasing salaries, but my estimates are lower than the estimates for similar classes of work for men who are similarly efficient in the other bureaus, so far as I have been able to find out.

Mr. Rogers. Mr. Barnard, in response to a question by Mr. Elston, I understood you to say that you asked for an increase last year?

Mr. BARNARD). I asked for an increase.
Mr. ROGERS. A salary increase?

Mr. Elston. I was wondering why a request for an increase should come at a time when living costs are obviously going down, rather than having come last year?

Mr. BARNARD. The increases last year were very modest; I made very modest increases; but, gentlemen, I am placed here in this position

Mr. ROGERS (interposing). Let us get this point straightened out first. Did you or did you not ask for salary increases last year?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir; there were some increases. You will find a letter showing exactly the increases.

Mr. ROGERS. In last vear's hearing?
Mr. BARNARD. I think it is in there.
Mr. ROGERS. If you can find it, I wish you would.

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Mr. BARNARD (after examination). The question of the increase of salaries was not seriously discussed.

Mr. Rogers. I do not recall a single reference to the increase of salaries.

Mr. BARNARD. There was not any reference to salaries in the hearing.

Mr. ROGERS. Are you perfectly sure you estimated for increases of salaries last year!

Mr. BARNARD. There were some; yes, sir.
Mr. ROGERS. What were they?

Mr. BARNARD. I estimated for the increase of the salary of the engineer from $3,500 to $4,000, and I estimated all along the line for a slight increase.

Mr. ROGERS. Did the engineer receive that increase?
Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir; he receives $4,000 now, as he should.

Mr. ROGERS. Do your estimates for last year show any increase whatever for salaries?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. Rogers. What were they?
Mr. BARNARD. Suppose I give that to you in the form of a letter.
Mr. ROGERS. That will do.

DECEMBER 23, 1920. Hon. JOHN J. ROGERS,

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. MY DEAR MR. ROGERS : I find that I was mistaken in my statement that the estimates for the fiscal year 1921 showed a provision for increase in salaries, as I had forgotten that the heads of departments had requested that in the estimates submitted no provision should be made for increase in salaries, in view of the fact that the reclassification of salaries was to be considered by Congress.

As no action had been taken by Congress in regard to the reclassification of salaries, I deemed it advisable and desirable, for the efficient administration of the work under my direction, to make certain increases in salaries in order that the men of this commission might receive salaries approximately coinmensurate with the services rendered and the average of those paid in the other scientific bureaus of the Government for similar services. Just what promotions were made during the past year will be readily seen from the inclosel table. Respectfully,

E. C. BARNARD,

Commissioner:

International Boundary Commission between United States and Canada, United

States sectionSalaries of permanent force.

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Mr. BARNARD. So far as my own salary is concerned, it is entirely discretionary with the Secretary of State.

Mr. ROGERS. It is entirely discretionary with the Secretary of State ?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir; I can not promote myself; I can promote anybody but myself.

Mr. ROGERS. Let me understand what you mean. It is discretionary with the Secretary of State what your salary shall be? Is it not discretionary with Congress?

Mr. BARNARD. No; it is a lump-sum appropriation and my salary is fixed by the Secretary of State.

Mr. ROGERS. Of course, Congress can fix your salary although it has never chosen to do so under the lump-sum method?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir; I am in the same position as the International Boundary Commissioners. Please understand that I do not wish to throw any stones in any way. I devote every minute of my time and will continue to. I have not taken any vacation or I would not be in the shape I am in to-day. With absolute authority to establish 4,100 miles of boundary line, I leave it to you gentlemen if $5,000 is not a ridiculous price to pay.

Mr. ROGERS. But the point is, Mr. Barnard, that your field work, one of your two functions, is ended?

Mr. BARNARD. Yes, sir.

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