far from Quebec, and there being in | factory to the public. It was necessary the House so many members repre- to maintain some volunteer force for senting counties near the City of Que- the purpose of meeting emergencies bec, he (Mr. Mitchell) was alone to that night arise at any time in the oppose the Bill. All the members of country. the district of Quebec knew the advantage of this Bill, and he was sure no one would oppose it. The Board of Trade and the shipping interests of Quebec were in favour of the Bill. Telegrams had been received to-day to that effect. The population of the two cities of Quebec and Lévis desired very much the passing of the Bill, which was opposed only by the company owning steamboats which were breaking the ice bridge every winter. He hoped that the House would consider the Bill in the interest of trade and commerce, and pass it without opposition.

The House resumed considera

tion of the estimates for Militia purposes in Committee of Supply.

Mr. BOWELL said when the House rose at six he was expressing his sur prise at the line of defence which had been set up by the Minister of Militia. He (Mr. Bowell) would like to know what complimenting the volunteers on their efficiency had to do with an overstocked staff and the outside service. He was very glad that the Government had determined upon a policy which they had advocated ed in the past, when they were in Opposition. It would meet with the approval of everyone who had paid attention to the subject. The Minister of Militia would find ample room for retrenchment in his own department. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL complimented the Government on having made such a large reduction in this estimate. He entirely approved of the policy announced by the Premier on this subject and believed it would be satis

He did not agree with the hon. gentleman that the absence of any expression in relation to the volunteers was a mark of disapproval. He did not think that the time for praising the volunteers was when the militia estimates came up. The volunteers did not demand any fulsome expression of opinion from members of Parliament; their services to the country spoke for themselves. What the country wanted was that the skeleton of a force should be maintained, round which, when the time came, a strong form could be built. The people would always be ready to come forward in defence of Canada when required. He had never been in favour of military colleges, but he thought the suggestion of the hon. Premier, with reference to the KingsIt was ton School, was a good one. perfectly right that a young man who did not find an opening in the military profession should receive the first nomination for the civil engineering service.

Mr. ROSS (Middlesex) said no item was voted with more reluctance than

this under discussion. He did not say this because the people had not sufficient military spirit to defend the country in a case of emergency, but such was the feeling of security at the present time that this expenditure seemed in a great measure to no purpose. He wished to urge upon the Hon. Minister of Militia the necessity of following out the line indicated by the Hon. Premier-the reduction of the militia estimates as fast as possible. There was a peculiar anomaly in the reduction of the pay of the volunteer officers, and the maintenance of the full staff; and had it not been for the explanations of the Hon. First Minister the item would be very reluctantly voted. Since Confederation $9,321,654 had been expended on military service, and of that sum, so far as practical service to the country was concerned, the amount expended was $2,985,682. The only object for which the service was established that he could see was to train our young men

for military service, and if the money was expended in any other way there was to his mind a large waste of the public funds without the necessary results being secured. Take the case of the estimates of this year. They would notice that the Civil Service Department of the service was to be in full blast, with twenty-seven officials, Deputy Adjutant-Generals, Brigade Majors, and Paymasters, and all for what? Not that we should drill a large number of volunteers, but in order to keep up an organization which this year would accomplish practically nothing. He understood there was to be no camp drill, and little or no battalion drill, but we were to expend a large amount of money for the purpose of keeping up the organization. He admitted that the organization must be sustained perhaps for some time to come, but he would like to see the Minister of Militia exercise a little

vigour in the management of the department to the extent of dispensing as speedily as possible with useless and unnecessary officers. He did not see why we should have Deputy Adjutant Generals, Brigade Majors and Paymasters for the management of a force which did not exist. If this staff was to be maintained for the interest of the

ture of the last few years. Every one who had noticed the recent modes of warfare would understand that military training was tending almost entirely in the direction of rifle practice, and that was the most difficult part of the routine. Our clever Canadian youths could learn camp and battalion drills in 10 or 12 days, but rifle practice equired great care and experience. If our service was organized in such a way as to have less camp drill and more of this modern essential, it would be made more effective; and if the hon. Minister of Militia would take into careful consideration the whole military system of the Dominion as well as the systems of other countries and the modern methods of warfare, he would render national service to the country in the reduction of expenses and secure a higher degree of efficiency.

Mr. BROWN thought all the money for the good service the volunteers did we had expended was amply repaid

in 1864 and 1866. The service was pretty well reduced just now, and it should have every assistance to render staff had done its duty well and fairly, it efficient and useful. He thought the but it might be that its cost was lai ger than necessary. Under the old Militia Act the duties at Ottawa here were

force well and good, but let the organ-performed by Col. Powers at a much ization be put upon another basis so that we might realize more practical benefit. The Hon. Minister of Militia

had referred to what appeared to his

mind to be a lack of enthusiasm in

less expense than at present. He did not agree with the manner in which If we the reduction was proposed.

were to economise at all we had better

out the Dominion and relieve the vol

unteers from further service for a year

at least.

Canada in regard to the Volunteer give leave of absence to the Major Gensystem. In Ontario sufficient enthusi-eral, suspend the district staffs throughasm existed. In 1866 when orders were issued for 12,000 men, 20,000 offered, more than seemed to be necessary under the circumstances; and the Mr. McCALLUM said the objection House would remember how readily had always been against what was voluntary contributions were made in believed to be an excessive and expenthe large cities and towns for the main- sive staff both at Ottawa and in the tenance of the families of the volun- outside service. Those at Ottawa were teers and tɔ make up any loss they the locusts eating up the public money, might incur through the service. The and the grasshoppers were those of the monument to the fallen at Ridgeway outside service. He thought the was also another proof that the people money expended for drilling young sympathised with those who suffered in men was well applied. In discussing the service. The general feeling in the merits of this question we should Ontario was this-that if we were to consider the number of men in the expend a large sum for the mainten- country who had been trained to the ance of a military force, it should be in use of arms. Everyone of those, if the a different channel than the expendi-safety of the country demanded it,

would come forward, and then we would experience the benefit of money expended in past years in this respect. The objection to the staff items had always been because it was believed that the men who really did the work got little, while the large staff absorbed the money. It was time that this was stopped.

was

should be called out for drill, once every two or three years, at least, if it was not intended to do so yearly.

as

He

Mr. ORTON also agreed that one of the positions mentioned might properly be abolished. Great complaint had been made, and he believed very frequently with some reason, concerning the manner in which the arms were Mr. HIGINBOTHAM was sur- kept. Captains of companies might prised at the severe criticism of his easily keep surveillance over these as over accoutrements. hon. friend from Hastings, who he well was sure must acknowledge the success thought that as reductions were being of our Volunteer service. The Hon. effected in this regard, the item of $125,Minister of Militia had regretted the 000 for the annual drills might also be few persons who had raised their dropped, as it could not meet the exvoices in support of the force. That pens attendant on brigade or battalion was not because the people did not drill, and company drill was considerIf retained, take sufficient interest in it; he believed to be of very little use. ed it occupied a warm place in the affection of the country, and quite sure that the past success of the volunteers would never be forgotten. The hon. member for Middlesex had stated that rifle practice was only necessary for the efficiency of the force. He admitted that it was an important requisite, but camp and battal. ion drill were extremely useful in instructing the officers in field duties. There was no time when the volunteer force had received more attention, fair play and encouragement than during the three years of the present govern ment. He had been connected with the force and knew the difficulties they had to contend with. At first they struggled for existence, but the last few years the volunteers had been encouraged, and were in a stato of efficiency. The hon. member for Hastings appeared to think that the sooner the staff was reduced

the

better. He differed from the hon. gentleman, and believed the better plan would be to reduce the number of men and sustain the staff in its entirety, because it was an easy matter to form companies if we only had the means of officering them.

He could not approve of a general reduction of the force. The small amount placed in the estimates he considered insufficient to provide for the expenditure attending the annual drills. The position of Brigade Major or Adjutant General might be abolished, but a sufficient staff should by all aneans be keptup; -and the volunteers

it would have another injurious effect:
—if the volunteers were inadequately
paid, it would create a great deal of
dissatisfaction in the force and do
more harm than good. Volunteering
might be encouraged under a different
system. We possessed large tracts of
land at present, of which volunteers in
the great North-West, and men who
had creditably served in the force for
five years, residing in this country
during the whole of such period, might
This
receive grants each of 100 acres.
would be an inducement for joining,
and a better class of volunteers would
thereby be obtained. Great complaint
was made in some parts of the charac-
ter of the men, and he had heard that
it had been the custom of Americans
in some quarters to come over, perform
the drill, receive the money, and then
return to the otherside of the river.
Medals might also be awarded to men
who served the term of five years. It
was well known that if it had not been
disinterested exertions of
for the
officers and men in the past, it would
have been almost impossible to have
kept up the system at all, and that the
country should recognize those services
by grants of some of our lands in the
North-West, or by the distribution of
honorary medals.

Mr. GORDON quite agreed with the hon. member for Middlesex regarding the expenditure of money on the force; and believed that in many instances the money spent in connection with annual drills had been badly expended, as the ranks were frequent

ly filled with lads to make up the required numbers. He agreed also with the hon. member for Middlesex that it was especially desirable to encourage proficiency in rifle shooting, for which purpose medals might be offered to be shot for by companies. Liberal prizes should further be extended to country associations.

men

Mr. PLUMB, judging from the estimates, presumed that the usual annual drills were not to take place during the present year. He required a small appropriation in order to ensure the preservation from destruction of the barracks in his constituency; a very small amount would be required for the purpose. He was very glad to hear the hon. the First Minister say that it was intended to create the officers of the militia from the at the young who studied Military Colleges. He was in hopes that the policy of the Government would have been to have offered some inducement to these young men, something such as was given to the students at West Point Academy. There they were given a salary of $30 a month, which was credited to them, and their clothing and their expenses were charged at the lowest possible rate. This sum was sufficient with proper economy to pay their expenses, and after they left the academy, they received an appointment in the army. The usefulness of this institution was exhibited in the great American conflict. All the men who came into prominence in the northern or southern army graduated at West Point. Many of these gentlemen served also in the civil service of the country. He trusted if it were found as he thought it would be found, that not sufficient inducements were offered to students, the Government would supplement the advantages by giving some moderate sum which would support them in a humble way. There was every reason in the world why they should secure the best possible talent in the formation of a skeleton army, and he thought the indications were that it would not be successful, unless the Government offered some further inducements.

would be sufficiently successful to induce the Government to persist in their course and better that system. It had been suggested during the debate that there should be no office in the militia service that should be closed to the young men from the Military College, but they would find that besides the theoretical knowledge that the young men obtained, practical knowledge in the regular army would be required to fill the higher offices in the Military service. The Government, however, might find it necessary to select a number of the most able men to undergo the practical training which could not be obtained in a military college, and which must be acquired in the European States. Without going further into this subject he would ask the Minister of Militia, whether on concurrence he would be able to give the number of Militia men that were at that time enrolled in the different Provinces of the Dominion. He regarded it as necessary to obtain this information, in order that they might ascertain if each Province furnished a sufficient quota of men in proportion to the population.

Hon. Mr. POPÈ did not agree with the remarks that had been made, that this appropriation might have been left out altogether. He thought we, as a part of the British Empire, ought to be prepared to do something for ourselvės. He did not believe the money appropriated was one dollar too much, and he was sure it was endorsed by the whole of the people of the country. He desired to see the volunteers better paid and the staff reduced to the lowest rate possible, which he He was of thought cost too much. opinion that every attention should be given to the company drill, as the men well up in this drill could easily be prepared for the field.

Hon. Mr. VAIL said in 1873 the whole enrolled militia from 18 to 60 years of age was:--Ontario, 352,145 ; Quebec, 236,285; Nova Scotia, 84,746, and New Brunswick 65,805; total 739,981. The quota for each Province was-Ontario, 19,437; Quebec, 11,691; New Brunswick, 3,264; Nova Scotia, 4,284; Manitoba, 696; British Columbia, 194; Prince Edward Island,

Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN did not think a military college would be successful at once, but he hoped that it | 694; total 40,260.