Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN wished to know whether the whole 40,000 would be drilled, or only a certain portion of them, or whether the number of days for drill would be diminished in proportion to the reduction of the vote. It was Hon. Mr. VAIL said only 28,845 had been drilled out of the 40,000, with an appropriation of $375,000. evident the same number could not be drilled this year with only one-third as large an appropriation. Mr. ORTON said the House should Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE explained that the entry in connection with the item explained precisely how the $125,000 was to be spent. The Government could not, however, be required to state precisely what battalions were to be called out, for this was a matter reserved for the Admintration to decide. In all cases they could spend more than was voted, but they could not communicate minute details concerning their arrangements. The hon gentlemen who had last know how that $125,000 was to be ex- spoken knew perfectly well that they pended. Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said it was not always convenient to explain how a vote like this would be expended. It was well to provide against contingencies that the experience of the last four or five years had shown were likely to arise at any time in this country. Mr. BOWELL said it was evident the Government had no policy. They did not know whether they intended to drill any of the men or not. Hon. Mr. POPE said the Government would not condescend to tell the House what their policy was, if they had any; but they had the audacity to ask for this large sum without a word of explanation. The House had a right to know whether the men wero to be drilled or not. Mr. KIRKPATRICK said it was very desirable the House should know what the Government intended to do with this money. The volunteers would like to know whether they were likely to be called out for drill this year as usual. He supposed it was not the intention of the Government to do so. If so, he approved of that policy for this year. If, however, it was intended to drill any of the force this year, he hoped they would not be exercised at their head-quarters. The companies that should be most drilled were those in cities and towns where the services of a trained force were sometimes required. The force in large centres of population should be kept together, and drilled, and the money so expended would be well spent. If this was the intention of the Government it would be well to let the House know. should not have put the questions they had asked. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL held that the Premier had gone back on the principles which the hon. gentleman had professed while in Opposition. The hon. gentleman would not at that time have been satisfied with the statements now made to the House. He thought that his friend from Compton was quite correct in maintaining that so far as they could judge of the declarations of the Hon. Minister of Militia, no definite policy had been arranged. The Premier said that this vote was entirely for drilling purposes, and the Finance Minister that it might be utilised for any contingency that might arise. The House as a constitutional Parliament had a right to know precisely the conditions on which this vote was asked, and the calculations on which it was based, as the money belonged to the people of this country. hon. gentleman had either forgotton, or was ignoring the principles which he (Mr. Mackenzie) once enunciated on the floor of the House. He entirely approved of the Government's policy in this relation; it was a step in the right direction; and in consequence, he was willing to vote for the item, even though the explanations which should have been given were not offered. The Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE replied that he was sure, when in opposition he had never asked for any such details as were now requested by hon. gentlemen. He had then, in the interest of the men only urged that they should be paid better; also that if more of the money granted had been spent on drill, and less for other purposes, it would have been better. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-There we agree. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-The Minister of Militia had stated that 28,800 men, out of the 40,000 were drilled. The report of the Department was before the House. If one-third of the amount voted last year was asked for, it follows that either one-third of the 28,000 odd would be drilled if paid at the same rate, or that two-thirds would be drilled if the time were reduced one-half. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-The hon. gentlemen may change their policy? Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-No change whatever would be made. It was quite open for the Government under the law to fix the number of days for drill and the number of men to be drilled, and to decide whether it should be by battalions or in brigades. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-That is the That is the information we would like to have. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-That information has been given. third of the force was to be drilled for the usual time, or whether the whole force was to be drilled for one-third of this period. Hon. Mr. VAIL could not understand why so much more information was now required than had been demanded during previous Sessions. The item was simply reduced from $375,000 to $125,000-one-third the sum expended when the late Government was in power. After the House was prorogued a report was made by the Adjutant General or the General in command to the Minister of Militia, who submitted to the Government his recommendations, which had to be approved of by an Order in Council bethen arranged how many men were to fore they could go into force. It was be drilled; where this would take place; and whether it would be performed in battalions or in brigades. These were mere regulations, which the Government could change from time to time as they pleased. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL stated that Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-I do not information in question had always think that I heard it. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-I am certain that I heard it. Hon. Mr. POPE stated that he and hon. gentlemen had vainly endeavoured to elicit information from the Minister of Militia, who they discovered knew nothing of the matter at issue. He had then appealed to the Finance Minister, who explained that the Government might do one thing, and again, that they might take another course; it seemed to depend altogether which way the wind blew. Next up jumped the First Minister to state that it was perfectly ridiculous for hon. gentlemen to make these enquiries, as they ought to be satisfied with the information obtained. When the hon. gentleman was in Opposition, he (Mr. Mackenzie) would not have been satisfied with the explanations made. Mr. KIRKPATRICK did not desire to learn the minutiae of departmental arrangements, but he certainly thought that the House was entitled to more information than they had obtained regarding the intentions of the Government; they should know whether one been demanded by the Opposition, when the Government, of which he had been a member, was in power; and had always been given by the late lamented Sir George Cartier, who was ever prepared to do one of two things. The late Government were always ready to state the settled policy of the Department frankly, but his hon. friend opposite was not prepared to take that course. Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN said it was proper that the Committee should be informed as to the quota that would be required this year, whether it was intended to follow the rule laid down last year, and whether the militia would be taken from one or two Provinces. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-The quota will be distributed as nearly as possible all over the country. The hon. gentleman might take that for granted. Mr. SCRIVER did not think it devolved on the Dominion to provide police forces for the cities. He thought it was of much greater importance that the volunteers on the frontier should be encouraged to keep up their organizations, and he hoped that a portion of this money would be devoted to the drilling of country battalions. Mr. KIRKPATRICK said that he had only recommended the expenditure of a portion of the appropriation in drilling the men in large centres. The item was carried. IMMIGRATION AND QUARANTINE. On item No. 55, appropriating $120,150 for immigration and quarantine, Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said that the Minister of Agriculture desired to have a vote that would enable him to take precautions against the introduction of contagious diseases among animals. He, therefore, moved that after the words "to meet expenses of further precautionary measures for the public health" that the words "for the prevention of disease among animals, be inserted. They did not desire to increase the vote for this purpose, which was $20,000. Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said that the appointment of an Agent-General was only an experiment, and it had become quite evident that it was not desirable to keep up that agency in the same expensive manner in which it was being conducted, therefore they decided to discontinue the office and reduce the expense in that regard as much as they possibly could. Mr. Jenkins on finding the reduction had taken place probably did not deem it worth his while to continue in that position, and he accordingly tendered his resignation. He was not aware that there was any other information to be given on this subject. Mr. BOWELL thought the only reduction in the department was the abolition of the services of the AgentGeneral. Did he understand the office was kept up in its entirety less the Mr. Jenkin's office? Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said the office under Mr. Jenkin's supervision had swollen to somewhat larger proportions than usual. Of course in connection with the office there were agents for the other Provinces, but moreover, Mr. Jenkins, in addition to his duties as emigration agent, conducted certain minor matters for other branches of the Government, which the new agent would not have to perform. In this connection he incurred. additional expenses, and his charges were considerably larger than it was intended the new officer should incur. and Jenkins was Agent-General that office was discontinued, but he himself resigned the other office of General Emigration Agent. With regard to the other matters he might just state that Mr. Jenkins was a very zealous and efficient officer, and only had the interests of Canada at heart. He honestly and sincerely strove to discharge his duty on all occasions to the best of his ability. He (Mr. Cartwright) did not think the hon. gentleman was as chivalrous as usual with respect to Mr. Jenkins. Hon. Mr.MITCHELL said if the Hon. Finance Minister put it on the point of He had seen communications in the chivalry he had nothing more to say. public prints that led him to believe there was something besides economy which led to Mr. Jenkins' resignation. Hon. Mr. POPE asked for explanations regarding the Agent-Generalship. He thought that Mr. Jenkins had tried to do his duty. He believed that that gentleman was carrying out to the best of his ability the instructions which 1 on the other side and bring them to Canada to work for them. To assist them the passage was reduced from £6 6s. to £4 5s., and subsequently in order to compete with Australia, New Zealand and other countries, to £2 5s. He was not at liberty to say how much that had cost the country. The arrangements were confidential, just as arrangements now were confidential, and he would not imitate the treatment he had received from gentlemen opposite, by pressing for explanations upon them. The agricultural labourers of England were unable to lay up money enough to take them to this country; and even when the tickets were reduced to £2 5s., the immigration aid societies had to subscribe and The result was in bring them out. he received from the Government, but | This required explanation. He (Mr. while he held that view he could not Pope) was responsible for having initisay that those instructions were wise ated the warrant system. He had done or judicious. He thought Mr. Jenkins so with a view to bringing the employhad been dealt with in a very summary ers of labour in this country nearer to manner. In his report for 1874, the the emigrating classes of the old world. late Agent-General states he was ap- We had cheap hands and dear labour. pointed to reorganize the office, and To make this country prosperous we that he found a loose, expensive and needed people to occupy our waste inefficient organization on the other lands. With this view he introduced side of the water. He presumed that the Bill organizing immigration aid when Mr. Jenkins made use of this societies, the object being to inlanguage he considered that he had duce our people to employ lasome justification for it, probably in bourers the instructions he had received from this side; but when it was stated that a department over which he (Mr. Pope) had presided was conducted in that manner, he felt he had a right to ask this House whether the results of the Administration of which he was a humble member warranted that declaration, or that the results of the past two years record in contrast with it proved the assertion to be correct. He wanted the House to consider this matter carefully. What was the result in 1873 ? He had heard it said in another place that the present system was exactly the same as that pursued when he controlled the department. He knew that he was responsible for everything | attempted while in office, and that in a certain sense he was responsible for those things which he bound his successor to carry out. This, however, could not apply to passenger warrants, as he did not bind his successor to continue the issuing of them, nor was it any excuse for giving 12,080 warrants in the year 1875, when not more than 10,500 emigrants arrived at all the ports of the Dominion as intending settlers in Canada. So far as the passenger warrant system was concerned, he was responsible, and was prepared to bear the responsibility for the two years that he occupied the position of Minister of Agriculture. He found the passenger warrants issued in London in 1873, when he had the largest immigration—some 42,000 souls-numbered only 9,000. In 1875 the number of immigrants arriving at Quebec and Portland, exclusive of Mennonites, was only some 10,500, while the number of passenger warrants issued in London was over 12,000. The Mennonites came under a different arrangement. 1873 the number that came to this country was 42,000—the largest immigration we had seen for many years. A great deal of that was due to the assisted passenger warrants. He learned that other countries were paying to all the steamship agents a commission to send emigrants to them. He at once instructed our agent in London to give as much to passenger brokers of standing and influence as was paid by any other country. They numbered some 1,200 men, and exercised a great deal of influence. His successor had carried out that policy. He (Mr. Pope) had also been charged with being responsible for the Menonite immigration. Well, he was going to take that responsibility. He had received an intimation that there was a colony of Germans in Russia that desired to emigrate. There was a great deal of difficulty in organizing this immigration owing to the unwillingness of the RussianGovernment to permit the presence of agents or the distribution of pamph C lets. It was only after an agent was sent to see them that he (Mr. Pope) received a notification from the British Government that it might cause trouble. He felt in an embarrassed position, but withdrew the agent, asking the Mennonites to send a delegation to Canada, and promising to pay their expenses. They came, visited Manitoba, and certain conditions having been agreed upon, 5,000 of them came and settled in that Province, bringing with them some $400,000 in one year. Mr. Pope proceeded to explain the conditions, which were that the Menonites should pay $30 for their passage from Hamburg to Manitoba, they providing their own food. He had made such arrangements that $25 paid the passage to Quebec, leaving the other $5 to take them to Thunder Bay, whence they were to go on over the Dawson Road, the transport thus costing the Dominion practically nothing. He had also been charged with sending agents to Europe. Well, he had sent them, but there his responsibility ended. He was not responsible for the manner in which agents had acted, nor for the manner in which they had been handled. He had no doubt but the inefficient way in which they had been instructed, and the red tapeism of the Department through the London office, had done much to embarrass and discourage them. He would like to compare his policy with that of his successor. True, circumstances were different. It could not be expected there would be the same emigration in these times as there had been in the past. Still, the proof that the changes they had adopted did not meet with their own approval was in the fact they had abandoned them. His policy his successor condemned as loose, extravagant and inefficient. He sent his agents for short periods, as he didn't wish them to feel they had a vested right to the office, or that they had any claim on the Government, to which they were bound to look for approbation, and not to the London agent. Reports were required monthly. The policy of his successor was quite different; reports were to be made once a week to the London agent, who controlled everything. Here the great mistake in the system had been committed, for it was only by keeping a due and strict supervision on the part of the Department over its employees that they could be induced to perform their work properly. His successor, he supposed, desired to free himself from the trouble the system he (Mr. Pope) had followed entailed. He was not surprised at this, seeing that the continued absence from the department of its present head made it impossible that he could give it that constant supervision which was absolutely necessary. Nevertheless, these things must have given his successor a good deal of anxiety—more than the London agent would feel. His successor should have received the reports and paid strict attention to what Australia and other countries were doing in connection with the matter of immigration. Quite a large number of immigrants had arrived in this country during the year 1874, but this was largely and naturally due to the exertions made in 1873, as emigrants invariably made their arrangements the year before they left home. The extent of immigration in 1872 had exceeded his expectations. Mr. Dixon had audited accounts, and this was one of the duties of that officer. Mr. Patterson, Secretary of the Board of Trade of Montreal, had inspected all the European agencies, and had made a satisfactory and complimentary report on the subject to the Department. In 1873 the largest sum ever expended on the part of this country by the late Government on immigration had been spent: it nearly approached the figures for 1875. Fortytwo thousand emigrants came from Europe to Canada in 1873, costing about $6.00 per head; in 1875 they numbered 10,000, exclusive of Menonites, and cost about $23 per head. These figures afforded sufficient justification for the policy he pursued, though it was termed "loose, extravagant and improper." Control had been of late left to too great a degree in the hands of the London agent, and a lack of energy in this respect had been exhibited in the management of the department. He would not say that the immigrants to this country were not worth all they cost, but he thought that his successor should place himself in more direct communication with |