Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD-It looks remarkably like it, because the resolution as moved by my hon. friend at first asks for due enquiry into the causes of the present financial depression, and it assumes that there is a financial depression; but the amendment, instead of asking for an investigation into it,seeks to enquire into the causes of the financial and commercial depression. Therefore, my hon. friend has really abandoned the whole of his motion in accepting the amendment, limiting the enquiry to be made; and I say that this is the greatest proof to my mind of the real secret feeling in my hon. friend's own breast-of course we cannot expect him to exhibit it openly here--that the objection I took is admitted and has been well grounded. So we are to have a very harmless enquiry as to the state of two branches, and not of the two most important branches of the industries of this country; and after discussing the matter for three days, we come to have a limited and partial Committee to make an investigation, not into the whole of our financial affairs, which, in my opinion, would have been the case if left to a Special Committee, or discussed in Committee of the Whole-substantially an enquiry into the condition of the nation. My hon. friend says that the late Administration allowed a number of Committees to act. Of course, if the Government of the day asked the assistance of the House, or of the Committee of the whole House, or of a

Special Committee of the House, they had the right to do so. They could take the whole House into their confidence, and ought to do so in most cases when they ask the assistance of Special Committees.

My hon. friend did not, it is quite true, move the motion in a hostile feeling towards the Administration; and when I asked my question the other day, it was simply a matter for common sense. I think that it must have so struck the common sense of this House, that when we have a Speech from the Throne, declaring the fact that there was stagnation in business and trade generally, from sympathy with the depression in the United States that economy was required, and that the estimates were

going to be prepared in an economical spirit, owing to the loss of revenue caused by this stagnation; and when the Minister of Finance informed us that the Budget was to be brought down in a few days, and the estimates laid before us-they are before us now-previous to which time we would not be in a position to know what the policy of the Government was, my hon. friend came behind the reasons given in the Speech, and moved for a Committee to enquire into the causes of the financial depression, the Committee, of course, being empowered to report from time to time, and send for persons and papers, sitting-if the proceeding were to be of any value-for weeks, and until very late in the Session. When we were told that the Government was coming down at an early date with their financial policy, it was equivalent to saying we will take out of the hands of the Government that question. This was what I demanded the other day, and this was the necessary result of my hon. friend's motion if the Committee were granted. A Committee of this kind, however, is a perfectly harmless one; and its enquiries have been limited. I dare say that a desire to get rid of the inconvenience of having substantially a vote of want of confidence on the Journals, has induced my hon. friend to accept the motion in amendment. Why, were it otherwise, did the hon. members who agreed to sit on this Committee, feel that they must keep their minds open regarding the subject and causes of the financial depression? My hon. friend in his speech has just said, that he did not intend to express any opinion on these questions until the evidence was taken. Another hon. member, who is on the Committee, yesterday stated that he would not give an opinion, and he thought that he ought not to do so on account of his position. Well, what is the consequence? Although he would not express an opinion in this House as to the causes of the financial depression, he would be called upon to vote, whether he intimated his views or not, and express his opinions in the strongest manner possible by giving his vote concerning the best means of relieving the depression.

They will be obliged to vote; and therefore give their views with reference to the Government's policy touching this depression; the extent of it, the nature of it, the causes of it, and the means of remedying it, before the result can be known. And thus those gentlemen, who felt themselves prohibited from doing so, with respect to the financial depression and the means of remedying it, may be, and certainly will be called upon to vote both after the Budget is brought down and the financial policy of the Government is disclosed. These are the grounds, which I took the other night, and to which I still adhere.

The motion in amendment, which has been accepted by my hon. friend, makes it a very harmless enquiry, like the motions made during previous Sessions concerning the state of agriculture, and the state of manufactures. All these are very well in there way, as I said, when I took the position I first did; and I tell my hon. friend that he has altogether changed the position he took originally, when he accepted the amendment.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-My hon. friend remarks that an enquiry into the causes of depression in one branch of industry is very well, and so with regard to two branches, but as to three, four or five, it is a vote of want of confidence. My hon. friend from Bothwell pointed out that two very large branches of occupation-the commercial and manufacturing-are in a state of stagnation, and that this caused a financial depression. He moved an enquiry into the causes of that depression. My hon. friend from West York pointed out what these two subjects are, in terms embraced in the amendment, and the hon. member for Both well accepted that amendment. This is subThis is substantially what it was. He was right then and he is right now.

Hon. Mr. TUPPER-I suggest as an amendment that the word "ruining" be embraced in the motion.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-The amendment to the motion is not yet carried. Perhaps the hon. member might ask the hon. member for West York to introduce that suggestion into his amend

ment.

Hon. Mr. TUPPER-I would just say, that of all the industries in this country, there is none of greater importance than the mining interest; and I regret to state that of all our industries nono is suffering in so remarkable a degree. I wish that it be added to the list.

Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-I would suggest something of the same character with relation to other branches of trade.

Hon. Messrs. Mackenzie, Blake, and and other Hon. Gentlemen-Hear, Hear.

Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-I am glad, to find that my suggestion meets with so much approval in the House. I allude to two other branches in which the prosperity of the country is very deeply involved,-I mean the great shipping and lumbering interests.

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT—I would suggest that there should be also included the branch of manufacturing tariffs.

Hon. Mr. MITCHELL----My hon. Finance Minister will friend the excuse me. I find that for the purposes of taxation, the lumber and shipping interests are considered, irrespective of manufacturing interests, for the purposes of the the Administra tion; and tion; and when it suits the purof the Administration to poses specially specially consider them, then I prefer to have it done in my own way.

Mr. GORDON--I just rise to correct my hon. friend for Hamilton, regarding one statement contained in the statistics he quoted. He stated that the bulk of the iron imported into Canada during the past year came from the United States and not from Britain. Referring to the trade returns, I find, Sir, that the amount of iron imported from these respective countries during the Great during the last year, was: Britain 53,422 tons; the United States 6,986 tons; or altogether about 80 per cent. from the United States as against Great Britain.

Mr. WOOD--The statement made by the hon. gentleman is not correct.

Mr. MILLS-Mr. Currier having refused to act on the Committee, I ask that Mr. McDougall of Renfrew be his substitute.

The amendment being carried,

Hon. Mr. TUPPER said-I move, seconded by Sir John A. Macdonald, that the original motion, as amended, be amended by adding the words "the mining," after the word "manufacturing.'

This amendment was adopted, and

Hon. Mr. TUPPER expressed it as his opinion that the shipping and lumbering interests were included in

the terms of the motion.

Hon. Mr. MITCHELL---I have no

doubt that my hon. friend is very sincere, but if he will tell me how ship building, one of the great industries in our country, is a manufacturing industry, then I would be satisfied with the suggestion.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE--Then I suggest that my hon. friend for Cumberland do that at his leisure after we adjourn.

Mr. MASSON---Since such a scope is to be given to the enquiry, the agricultural interest might as well be added. I am told that at the present moment this interest is suffering in Quebec. Produce cannot be sold, and there are practical agriculturists in the House who could act on the Committee. I suggest that Mr. Benoit be put on the Commitee.

A

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT motion will be made for a Select Committee for that special purpose. Mr. SPEAKER The amendment suggested, is out of order,

The amendment of the Hon. Mr. Mitchell was seconded by Mr. Masson. Mr. KILLAM-I do not think that there is any depression in the shipping and fishing interests.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-It ought to be enquired into. What is proposed to be added is unnecessary.

Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-People who know more about it than the Minister of Justice think it necessary.

Mr. SPEAKER-It rests entirely with the House.

Hon. Mr. TUPPER-I was glad to hear from a gentleman so well acquainted with the shipping interest as the hon. member for Yarmouth, that the shipping interest is in an eminently prosperous condition. While

paying great respect to his intimate acquaintance and knowledge of that interest, I must say that my information is of a totally different description. My information is that this most important interest in this Dominion has rarely been in a state of greater depression than to-day -that the owners of ships throughout the country are suffering somewhat, and instead of receving money are very frequently called upon to pay money for the capital they have investwith great pleasure to the statement, if correct, I listened with greater surprise than pleasure to the statement the hon. gentleman has made.

ed. While I should leave listened with

Mr. MITCHELL-I should like to call the attention of the hon. gentleman for Yarmouth to one fact. I have received a communication from New Orleans, a port which gives employment to a large portion of our own tonnage, to the effect that vessels there are not carning money, and are not therefore in a posperous condition.

Mr. KILLAM----I must explain that these hon. gentlemen have somewhat misunderstood me. The fact is that the shipping of this country is employed in all parts of the world, and in some parts freights are low and unprofitable.. But what I wished to convey was that as a general rule if the trade was not sufficiently prosperous, we need not enquire the cause in this House that

we should leave matters to take their course and the depression in time will disappear in itself.

The amendment proposed by Mr. Mitchell was then carried.

On motion of the Hon. Mr. Mackenzie, the name of Mr. McDougall was substituted for that of Mr. Currier.

The House adjourned at Thirty-five minutes past Ten p.m.