tions. newal of the old reciprocity trade rela- | free-trade. If he knew anything about farming there he would understand that agriculture has prospered since free-trade in corn. He also said the great secret of the success of the British manufacturer was because the raw material came in free of duty. What does he propose to do? Why, to tax raw material and make food dear. It is desirable, I conceive, that where a motion is made looking toward gaining information on a subject concerning the well being of so large a portion of the population as the agriculturists, it should be allowed to pass with the expression of a hope that expense would be avoided as much as possible. Mr. STIRTON-I think we should not oppose the hon. gentleman getting the Committee. Judging from past experience, it would be quite harmless. This is the third time he has brought the matter before the House. The first Session he had a seat here he got a Committee. He had ample time to present a full report; but my hon. friend had that peculiar turn of mind to look for what had been done before. He found an old report which he copied and handed in to Parliament. It was ruled out of order. Last Session We had an attempt, which proved abortive, to get another investigation I think, therefore, we should allow him to have his Committee. we I have something to say as a practical farmer in this matter. My hon. friend said this Committee was called for by a large section of this country. Now, when anything agitates the public mind, or is particularly wanted by any class of this community, we are generally approached by petition. We have the Provincial Agricultural Association, and County and Township Societies and clubs of farmers; yet at their meetings this question is never discussed. If I believed for one moment that protection would benefit the farmers of Ontario one cent, the hon. gentleman would find me zealous in supporting his motion; but I say, as a practical farmer, that instead of benefitting it would injure them. My hon. friend from Lincoln the other night made an allusion to the fact that we imported 4,000,000 bushels of corn, and asked why should we immake money out of it. He also said, port a bushel? Simply because we why not make whiskey out of coarse grains? We can buy corn for a cent a pound, and sell our barley for 1 or 2 cents a pound, and there is more spirit in a pound of corn than a pound of barley. He proposes to put a duty on corn, and wants to make whiskey cost twice as much to the manufacturer as and most nutritious foods you can buy at present. Corn is the cheapest for the support of stock, and my hon. friend for the benefit of the farmer proposes to exclude it. The great object is to get the farmers in line with some other interest, so as to bring such influence to bear on the Government as to drive them to the terms. I attributed a great deal of what we have heard here to selfishness. I feel as much concerned for the farming interest as any one, and if I thought this movement would benefit them to the extent of one cent in the bushel, I would support it, but I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing in it. Mr. CASEY-Since another gentle is, in part, a farming constituency, has man representing a constituency which taken upon himself to state that the farmers are stirred up on this question, The hon. member for Centre Wel- overwhelming petitions, I must enter and has given mysterious hints about lington said something about having a protest against the assertions of free-trade with the United States, but that hon. gentleman. There is no he never said anything about what we evidence, and never has been, before should do to bring it about. Will any- the House that there is any wide-spread thing this Committee can do or agitate feeling amongst farmers in favour of in this direction bring it about? Cer-protection. The only attempts made tainly not. He went on at great in this House to establish that fact length to show the success of Great have been made by gentlemen either Britain, and made the extraordinary manufacturers themselves, or represtatement that it was obtained without | senting manufacturing, or in some way 143 disconnected with the farming community. My hon. friend from South Wellington has put the facts very clearly. He has shown you there is no agitation among the Agricultural Societies, and none among farmers to organize for protection. He also gave some strong arguments against protection as applied to the farming interests. I merely say this:-The fact we had to import agricultural produce shows that it is a saving to some one. If we put on such a duty as will shut it out, it must inconvenience some persons, or cause them to lose money. The hon. member for Centre Wellington has not shown that you put a corresponding amount of increased revenue into the farmers' pockets by an creased tariff. Farmers themselves know this very well. They feel that through all the changing circumstances of the country they have stood the storm as well as any other class, while merchants and manufacturers have gcre down. They have not suffered under the assumed disadvantages of free-trade, but have always come out better than any body else. But I do not see why this attempt should be made to put patent nostrums into healthy constitutions. Mr. PATERSON Do you not think that this Committee might do good by recommending the abolition of the duties already existing? If free trade be better than protection, why have any duties at all? Mr. CASEY-If the Committee is appointed, it would be as likely to do that as anything else. My chief point is that the farmers have not signified any dissatisfaction with the present state of things. Although the term quackery, employed in the early part of the debate on this subject, may be a little harsh, it is no matter for surprise that such a word was suggested by the course pursued by the hon. member who makes the motion. On motion of Mr. MILLS, the debate was adjourned. The House adjourned at Thirty minutes past Eleven. HOUSE OF COMMONS. TUESDAY, Feb. 22, 1876. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Three o'clock. CIVIL SERVICE SUPERANNUATION BILL. Mr. BLAKE moved, that on Thursday next this House will resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole House to consider of the following Resolution: That it is expedient to provide that the provisions of the Canada Civil Service Act, 1868. and any Acts amending the same, and of the "Act for better ensuring the efficiency of the "Civil Service of Canada, by providing for the superannuation of persons employed the rein "in certain cases," and any Acts amending the same, shall ext.nd and apply to the Officers, Clerks and Servants of the Supreme Court of Canada, and of the Exchequer Court of Canada, at the seat of Government-Carried. ASSISTANT INSPECTORS OF PENITEN TIARIES. Hon. Mr. BLAKE moved the second reading of the Bill to provide for the appointment of Assistant Inspectors of Penitentiaries in Manitoba and British Columbia. He said: It is not necessary have already furnished to the House. to make further explanations than I I may, however, refer to a suggestion made from one quarter of the House on the subject. This measure is not at all a consequence of the legislation to reduce the number of Inspectors. The necessity arises from other considerations altogether, which would be applicable to the old Board, namely, the inspection of penitentiaries in provinces. which are so remote that the travelling expenses alone would exceed the salaries which we propose to pay to the local inspectors. The further off those Provinces are, the more necessary it is to have somebody on the spot to make a closer and fuller inspection than if we had to send an officer there. The public charge is insignificant, and, as I said before, it does not amount to the travelling expenses. should be of such standing as to give confidence to the House and to the country. It seems to me that this is a temporary measure more than anying else. Hon. Mr. BLAKE-The intention is to find, if possible, a suitable person in each Province to whom this salary will be more a supplement than anything else. I do not anticipate any difficulty in finding proper men. The measure may in some sense be temporary, but I am afraid until we extinguish time and space it will be perma nent. Mr. BUNSTER-I think it would be impossible to find a gentleman fit for the position who would take it for the salary offered. Wages are higher in British Columbia than here, and certainly a gentleman capable of performing the duties would not accept a smaller salary than mechanics and laborers are paid. The Bill was read the second time. CRIMINAL STATISTICS. Hon. Mr. BLAKE moved the second reading of Bill to make provision for the collection and registration of Criminal Statistics. He said: I have but a few observations to make in referance to this measure in addition to what I said when introducing it. On that occasion I promised to explain to the House, as far as I uld, what, in a general sense, were the possible number of records that might have to be made, and give such other information based upon the procedure in England, and heretofore in Canada, as might be at all useful. In reference to provincial statistics on this subject, the infor 1. mation which I have been able to gather is only to be found in the Province of Ontario. There is there a system which furnishes to a very large extent what is required on the subject, although, from the fact that it is designed more with reference to provincial objects-there being some provincial acts which are not criminal laws of Canada, and yet involve fine and imprisonment-we cannot obtain all the information which, according to the system which has grown up in England, may be required. The results are startling as to the growth of crime in the country. The commitments to jail in Ontario for the year ending Sept. 30th, 1872, were 6,958: for the year ending Sept. 30th, 1875, three years later, they were 10,073, making an increase of about threesevenths of the whole amount in three years. We have partial statistics from Quebec. The commitments in 1872 were 4,241. If you assume the same percentage of increase in Quebec as we find in Ontario, it would give 6,650 commitments for 1875, or a total of between sixteen and seventeen thousand for the two Provinces, and about 20,000 in round numbers for the entire Dominion in 1875. In Ontario a very large number of cases resulted in acquittal or discharge, the number being no less than 2,312, or about three-tenths of the whole number. This seems to me, speaking without reference to the statistics of other countries, to be a very large proportion of persons who have been subjected to the ordeal of commitment for crime and afterwards found not guilty. Then, with reference to the minor class of crimes, part of which may be under part provincial, and under Dominion laws, and with to which I have no respect means of distinguishing one class. from the other, there were no less than 3,663 commitments for the offence of being drunk and disorderly. Besides that, there are many for breach of bylaws and other crimes which might be designated as infractions of provincial by-laws punishable by committal. This enormous increase in the num ber of persons charged with, and in the number convicted of crime, if you compare it with the increase of population, is remarkable, but it must not be supposed that it is attributable to any abnormal growth in 1875, for the increase of that year was less than that of 1874. I think these figures demonstrate the importance of our obtaining such statistics as may inform the minds of us who are responsible for those laws which prescribe what are crimes, the penalties for them, the criminal procedure, and the general effect of these laws upon the criminal class, as might enable us, perchance, with wisdom to amend them. As I have said, the practice in Ontario, under administrative regulations, has been such as to furnish a very large amount of information of which I have given the House only the general result without the details. Anterior to Confederation there was established in Lower Canada a system which afforded fuller details in reference to judicial statistics than in the other Provinces, but it supplied hardly anything, indeed, that is useful except the general results I have given the House as to the number of commitments made in the course of the year. As to the other. Provinces, I have caused enquiry to be made so far as public sources of information and sessional papers, &c., gave the means of doing so, but it does not appear that there exists any useful provision at any rate for obtaining criminal statistics. As I have said the provision made in Lower Canada in this regard before Confederation was very considerable and very general, but since Confederation the Criminal Procedure Act has been extended to the whole of the Dominion. The portion having reference to convictions before Magistrates' Courts, imposed upon these Magistrates the duty of making a return to a local officer of their convictions and sentences, whether by fine or imprisonment, and also required that officer to advertise in a local paper the results in schedules, and transmit these results to the Minister of Finance. I presume, from the nature of the office held by the gentleman to whom the results were to be sent, that the object of this step was a pecuniary one, to see that what belonged to the Crown was properly remitted. I have endeavoured, as far as I could, in the present measure, to adopt existing plans sanctioned by the authority of the Parliament of Canada; and the Bill provides for the continuance of these returns, the only dif ference being that they should be forwarded to the Minister of Agriculture, who has charge of the Department of Statistics, instead of an officer to whom they are really of no consequence. The Minister of Agriculture can see just as well as the Minister of Finance that the fees are collected; and what is really important, can utilize them with a view to the compilation of statistics. That, however, was the only existing provision of the law which it seemed possible to embody I absolutely in the Bill as capable of being made available under any circumstances. I felt at the time the measure was introduced, the importance of availing myself as far as possible of the systems at present followed in the other Provinces ; and I did not like, with the information then possessed, to propose a permissive clause; but since its introduction, I have, as I expected, received various communications on the subject, and of such a character as to induce me to inform the House of my intention to suggest a permissive clause, which enables us to utilize, where systems of statistics have been or or may be established, the provincial method, so far as we can do it without injury to the harmony and completeness of our own system. It will be remarked that there are great advantages in the close supervision necessarily given by the inspector of local institutions and the returns made by virtue of his office relative to his inspection of the gaols, &c., once at any rate, and generally twice a year. He is able to ascertain how the reports are actually prepared, and check by actual inspection their accuracy with regard to the number of the persons confined in the gaol, &c. He is able to judge-and as I have been informed, his investigations frequently put him in a position to check errors-how far the officer is discharging his duty; therefore I feel it to be a very important part of the measure that we should avail ourselves of provincial machinery in this regard. The extra trouble given should be paid for, and a clause I shall suggest to be added, after the seventh section of the Bill, will be to this effect: That in connection with the collection of criminal statistics, or the obtaining of any part of the information to be embraced in the Ministry may cause to be taken out of any schedules authorized under this Act, the moneys provided by Parliament in this regard, such sums as may be agreed on, not exceeding the amounts otherwise payable to the sheriffs and wardens for like services, under the 4th section of the Act. I do not however propose to alter the cast of the Bill at all, but I wish to complete it, giving us full power to make collections by our own authority of all statistics. I mentioned at the time I introduced the measure that I thought it both politic and just that we should not impose this duty upon these officers without the payment of some small fee-just because it is an additional duty, and politic, because we cannot expect an additional duty properly performed unless this is done. I have felt a considerable degree of embarrassment as to the amount of remuneration to be given. It seemed tolerably clear to me that the general principle should be the payment of a small, fixed sum, in the first instance, for making the return. I also felt that there ought to be some little additional fee; but it was not so easy to decide whether it should be calculated according to the number of words employed, or the number of cases with reference to which information is given. On the whole, I concluded that the latter plan was most proper, for the number of cases with which the officer would have to deal would be a better measure of the trouble taken than the number of words used, obviating the employment of needless verbiage in the report. The rates I am about to propose are extremely moderate, and in this relation it is to be remembered that these officers are bound to make returns to the Local Governments, entering most of these things, if not all of them, as in Ontario. It is hardly conceivable, in any well-ordered Province, that the sheriff or gaolers should not be obliged to keep records of most of these matters, and the additional duty would be practically that of sending us the results of the entries. My intention with reference to the money resolution will be explained when we reach the notice in this connection on the paper. So much I have said with reference to the prisoners committed, either for trial or under conviction and what remains is with regard to the other and no less important branch of the matter-the returns of the business transacted in the courts themselves. It did not appear to me that we could hope to get satisfactory information by relying upon the reports of sheriff's or gaolers, obtained casually or otherwise. Besides, the acquittals would, in their returns, be entirely excluded from consideration. I have, therefore, added the suggestion that the clerk, or officer performing that duty, and when there is no clerk, the judge himself, shall make out the schedules, and fill up such as are sent to him with reference to the criminal business transacted in the Court. Now, Sir, passing to what is done in this relation in England, I may say that the system of judicial statistics there, which is much wider of course than our sphere concerning such statistics, embracing, as it does, the civil as well as criminal, was commenced very many years ago, and has been gradually improved. I think that about the year 1852 it was practically commenced by directions from the office of the Secretary for the Home Department, and as far as I can ascertain, it has gone on by degrees and by administrative arrangement only. There are some provisions in the old Statutes in connection with statistics, but they refer more to the means, first of all, of obtaining photographs of members of the criminal classes and the description of individual criminals, and secondly, to the provisions of the ticket-of-leave system, than to such matters as those which we are now called upon upon to consider. The more analogous legislation which I have been able to find, is that of Scotland in 32 and 33 Vic., Cap. 33, where provision was made legislatively for the collection of criminal statistics in Scotland; and in the second section of that Act, it is provided that the Clerks of the several Courts for the administration of Criminal Justice, the Keepers of Records, and other persons receiving remuneration for the performance of public duties, shall fill up, and transmit to the Department for the collection of criminal statistics, returns relative to the the business transacted in their offices during the preceding year. That Act Act also provides that each schedule sent should bear the signature of the Lord Advocate for Scotland, and a summary remedy for default, and for reports touching the state of crime, to be made by the Sheriffs. The House is aware that Sheriffs perform judicial functions there. These returns go to the Home Department with the view of contributing to the completeness of the system. I may say that I have taken advantage of the Scottish law; and I have also added provisions con |