tained in Act of the Parliament of Canada concerning the imposition of penalties, included by the right hon. member for Kingston in the amended Act, itself drawn from Acts of that Parliament. I have had called to my attention the question whether the natural year should be adopted for the returns. This would involve of course considerable delay before the statistics Can be expected to be prepared in the different offices. I think that this will require about two months, and that I propose to allow. Then there would be the further delay of compiling the the results and tabulating them, and this would take I do not know how much longer, but a considerable time. It would not be possible, as is very obvious, if the natural year is adopted, to furnish to Parliament during the Session the usual satisfactory returns with regard to the preceding year; and there may be a question whether-although I confess that I have an impression in favor of the natural year-on the whole the efficiency of the returns would be impaired by taking some earlier period, as the 30th of September, securing the returns by the 1st of November, and during the Session these results might be laid before Parliament. We also have the incidental advantage, which is not unimportant, of having the assistance of the Provincial machinery and of Provincial officers to a very large extent. It is the year used in the Province of Ontario, though it is quite probable that if we adopted the other that Province might also be induced to change its year. If not, it is clear that additional labor would be imposed on the officers, having possibly to a certain extent an injurious effect on the service and our arrangements in connection with this system of statistics. I have no further suggestions. The House will perceive in the Scottish Act the forms for the schedules. The forms which are to be used shall be approved of by the Governor in Council, so that the whole Council shall be responsible for the adoption of any schedules which the officers in question under this Act will be obliged to fill up.

Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD asked

if any provision was made respecting breaches of provincial laws?

Hon. Mr. BLAKE----The Bill provides for the collection of criminal statistics of Canada, and I do not propose to provide for that. With reference to the Province of Ontario, we can very easily collect the statistics, and perhaps as a mere matter of departmental ad ministration the Minister charged with this duty in that or any other Province could make a supplementary report which can be communicated to the House. I did not think it expedient to mingle that subject with the statistics of crime of Canada.

Mr. BROUSE----I don't rise for the purpose of opposing anything in this Bill, but on the contrary to congratulate my hon. friend on bringing it forward. At the same time I regret that the Bill has not gone further. When my hon. friend on my left (Mr. Dymond) brought this question forward, it was stated that it was not within the province of the House to deal with it. I also brought forward another matter---that relating to sanitary science, and was informed that it could not be dealt with here. While expressing satisfaction with the present measure, I may repeat that a larger and more important question has been given the go by, and that no reference is made to health statistics, which would be of far greater importance than the mere collection of criminal statistics. The legislators of England have declared that it is the first duty of a statesman to legislate for the health of the people; and in other countries such legislation has had the effect of reducing the rate of mortality from 40 in 1,000 down to its present comparatively low figure. I think the hon. gentleman should give a reason to this House why this important subject should not be dealt with. I do not intend to go into the matter fully at present, but will avail myself of another opportunity to bring it before. the House.

Mr. DYMOND-I think the history of this subject should encourage my hon. friend. Two years ago I made a motion to obtain statistics with regard to one particular class of crime, desiring to obtain not merely the convictions and sentences, but also the com

mitments where acquittals had taken | asked for certain returns, and was told, place. I was then informed that it if I remember aright, it was not in the would be impossible for the Govern- | power of the Government to obtain. ment to act in the matter. On a them. We want to get power, and we second occasion I ventured to add to are proposing this legislation in view my motion an address or recommen- of that clause of the British North dation, that attempts should be made America Act which gives us control of through the local Governments to ob- statistics. It was impossible to do it tain the information which my hon. without a law, and in order to get friend now proposes to get by this Bill. I over that difficulty the measure is pro-congratulate the hon. gentleman on posed. his having accomplished what was two years ago alleged to be an impossibility. I always knew my hon. friend would perform great things, and I hope that he or some other member of the Government will endeavour to carry out the suggestion of the hon. member for South Grenville. It is all very well for us to obtain information regarding the extent and nature of the moral disease which prevails in our midst, but it is equally important that we should understand what are the laws acting upon and regulating the health of the community-what are the climatic effects on longevity, and what parts of our country are more healthy than others, which can only be done through some such agency as that proposed in the Bill before us.

The subject of statistics has been brought before the House on other occasions. I remember that the hon. member for South Waterloo either made a speech or moved for a Committee last year, and the attention of the Senate was also called to the question. I venture to suggest that my hon. friend the Minister of Justice will be able shortly to give us the means of collecting statistics relating to sanitary matters.

It will be satisfactory, however, that this House will not be asked to pass criminal laws in the dark in future. Hitherto we have had no information before us, even as to the existence of certain classes of crime. We shall now be able to see what the effect of our

legislation has been-whether justice has been administered satisfactorily under the laws that we enact, as well as to obtain some reliable information relative to the social condition of the people-a subject in which we are all deeply interested.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-In respect to the observations of my hon. friend from North York, I may say that he

With regard to the remarks of the member for South Grenville, I admit that physical health is important, but it is not with that subject this Bill proposes to deal. By embracing that that subject, the system would be much more extensive, and would be coupling two subjects, alike only in the matter of statistics. Vital statistics should undoubtedly be dealt with, but I believe that those who carefully consider the great range of subjects over which a system embracing that subject would extend, and the enormous expense which would be incurred in carrying it out, would hesitate before presenting legislation to make use of the powers invested in us in that regard.

The Bill was read the second time.

THE CRIMINAL LAW.

Item 5-A Bill to amend the Criminal Law relating to violence, threats and molestations-was then called.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-Let it pass.

Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD was understood to suggest that it might beas well to repeal and re-enact the old Act as to proceed with this measure.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-My right hon. friend has the honor and glory of being father of that legislation, and I don't desire to deprive him of any of his laurels.

Hon. Mr. TUPPER-I am very sorry that the hon. gentleman has not exercised the same magnanimity with reference to a very important act providing for the trial of controverted elections by judges.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-I proposed that Act.

Hon. Mr. TUPPER-The hon. gentlemen may have proposed a Bill, but not that Act, which was passed by us.

are

ture, but I did not at all contemplate have gone into our Western country that country would remain for a long settled in this district; at time without a government of its own. all events, a large percentage My contention was that the constitu- of them have settled about Lake Wintional Governor of Manitoba had so nipegoosis in the immediate vicinity of little to do he could economically Manitoba, although not within the enough for a good many years govern limits of its jurisdiction; therefore there the whole of the Territories under the is less reason for the establishment of provisions of the Bill of last Session. the new Government under the Act of Hon. Mr. BLAKE--I am very glad last Session. There can be no satisto hear that. factory legislation by a Government of this kind, even if the population were there, for you cannot have educational legislation or impose taxes. Even though they had Municipal Councils they have not the authority to confer on them powers which they do not possess themselves, to impose school taxes; therefore the ordinances passed by the Lieut.-Governor in Council would be of a very unsatisfactory and inadequate description. It would, no doubt, be satisfactory to the House to ascertain how long the hon. gentleman thinks that that country will be governed under this Act.

Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD-The hon. gentleman will find if he looks back that I approved of the Bill, and the only objection was that a separate Government was unnecessary. This Bill is a permanent one on the face of it, and I think a clause should be introduced to say that it is temporary. Under this Act there can be no taxation. Then any expense or cost in working the machinery of the Governmernment of this country will, I take it, be chargeable on the Dominion Trea

sury.

My hon. friend will no doubt explain later in the Session why the Act of last year was not brought into force. If I recollect aright, when that Bill was introduced to this House, I ventured to state, with the sparse population of the West, outside the boundary of Manitoba, that the Lieut.-Governor of that Province would perform all the duties of government required for a time in the Territories, and there would be no necessity for establishing a separate Government until the country had been better settled. But it was stated by my hon. friend that it was highly expedient that there should be a LieutGovernor and a Government appointed for the Territories without any delay. Delay has taken place; and I venture to say that that portion of the country need not be brought under the operation of the law at present. The reason is still stronger now than it has been since last Session, as part of the territory is taken away under this Act, the part which has the most population. As I understand the boundaries, the bulk of the territory that will come under the provisions of this Act lie to the east of the western boundary of this Province, and to the east and north of the eastern boundary of Manitoba. The majority of the people who

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-There are

several reasons why the Act of last Session was not put in force, some of which I can mention to the House. In shonld obtain the utmost possible inthe first place it was very desirable we formation as to the probable distributhe different districts of country. The tion of population that would settle in Great Lone Land, as Mr. Butler terms it, only by recent explorations that many was but imperfectly known, and it is knowledge-facts that seem to be essenfacts concerning it have come to our tial in considering the question of creat termined on a vigorous course of action ing the seat of Government. We had dewith regard to the expulsion of offenders by the North-West Mounted Police, and through their efforts we have been able to vindicate the majesty of the their means we have been enabled to British law in these territories. By acquire a great deal of information respecting the settlement and resources of certain parts of the country of which very little was previously known. We find that a large population i rapidly settling at the north bend of the Saskatchewan River, where there is a population already of between 500 and railway is to cross, the land at the southe 1,000 souls. South of that, where the