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his hands so full that he could not give his attention to more work in his immediate vicinity. It is a different thing when he is asked to travel 400 or 500 miles from his own Province, when matters pertaining to the Territories would demand his consideration. I have felt myself at liberty to consult with Lieutenant Governor Morris on all these matters. Although we were not politically allied, it does not prevent us from entering cordially_into matters connected with these Terri

branch is being located, and one person has erected a saw and grist mill this year. Assuming the Jaspar House and Lake Winnipeg are the central points, the place where we shall likely establish the seat of Government is 250 miles from Fort Pelly, and 550 miles distant from the town of Winnipeg. At one time we thought Fort Pelly was the best place for the establishment of the Government House, but other information leads us to the conclusion that it would be better to remove it further west. A vast territories, and it was entirely his opinion, tory can be developed, and is now partly developed, in the Peace River District. Fort Pelly appears to be too far east, and Government would be more difficult if located there than if it were established at the centre of the Territories. It is already difficult to reach remote settlements by any authority that we can put in motion, and we must have an authority that can easily extend to the different points. The place which we shall probably select as the seat of Government must be one favourable for the location of a considerable town; it ought also to be favourable as an agricultural district, with an abundance of fuel and timber, and easy access from the different posts established by the Government in the "Territories. I have far less doubt now than ever of the wisdom of establishing this authority, and of the utter impossibility of the Governor of Manitoba governing that vast territory. The Indian question itself, is a very serious one. We have found it necessary to ask Lieut.-Governor Morris, who has devoted himself earnestly and with an assiduity beyond all praise to make himself useful in developing that territory, to travel 200 or 300 miles to meet the Indians in treaty, and it was impossible for him to make that journey in less than two or three weeks. We cannot expect him, when we are obliged to meet and treat with other Indian bands in the Far West, to leave his Government for eight weeks at a time on this business. We find it necessary therefore to have another officer of superior rank, equal to that of the Lieutenant Governor of Manitoba, to meet those Indians, although Lieutenant Governor Morris has not

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as well as the opinion of this Adminis-
tration, that until this boundary ques-
tion between Ontario and the North-
West Territories is settled, the portion
east of Manitoba should be governed by
the authority settled in that Province.
We cannot apply the laws of Ontario
to any part of that territory, although
it may belong to this Province, until
Ontario
the boundary is decided on.
claims the whole of it to Manitoba;
while others assume that the boundary
is as far east as Fort William, and that
the terminus of the Pacific Railway
there is really in the North-West
Territories. If all the territory west
of Fort William is given to Ontario,
then the laws in relation to Ontario
will come into immediate operation
there; on the other hand if the North-
West boundary is found to be at Fort
William, then the laws applicable to
the North-West Territories will be en-
forced there, and we can conceive of no
difficulty that can arise that will prevent
us from being able to determine these
boundaries by legislation next Session
of Parliament. The only settlement
of any consequence east of Lakes Win-
nipegoosis and Manitoba, is the settle-
ment of Icelanders on the shores of
Lake Winnipeg. There are very few
settlers in that region, and though our
friends claim that there is but little
land in that direction that can be
settled, recent explorations have lead
Settlement
us to a different opinion.
has gone south of
has gone south of Lake Manitoba,
and north of Lake Winnipeg there
is also a very considerable settle-
ment. The prospect is that there will
also be a very large population on the
slope of the Rocky Mountains, where
Colonel McLeod is stationed with the
Mounted Police force, near Fort Benton.

Our officers there collected in something like six months $6,000 in duties on articles imported from the United States. The territory there is developing into a very rich country. It is a very fine grazing section, although from its greater elevation it is a little more subject to frosts than the other parts of the country of less elevation. There can be no doubt that the country from Lake St. Henry to the North Saskatchewan and a little beyond it is eminently favourable for settlement. There is a steady descent from the boundary northward. At the boundary the elevation of the prairie land is not far from 5,000 feet. At the Jaspar At the Jaspar House it is about 3,500 feet on the average. Progressing northward towards Smoky River, it is not more than 2,000 feet. Where the Peace River bends southward we find that the elevation of the prairie is not much more than 1,000 feet above the level of the sea, and with this declination north the climate grows milder, and the isothermal lines appear to follow the level of the country. This indicates two things:-That there is a rich country fit for settlement from the United States boundary all the way north to Lake Arthabaska, and that as we go north

ward the land is better than in the south.

There is no reason why a very large population should not pass into that vast country, stretching northward seven hundred miles, and enjoy a climate as favourable as in any part of Canada proper, except, perhaps, the south-west peninsula of Ontario. These considerations render it necessary, in our opinion, that this central authority should be established; that the people abroad who read our reports and seek for information about our country should understand that we have not merely an immense extent of fertile territory in the North-West, but that it is in a position that law and order can be enforced; that there is nothing to be feared from the wandering tribes of aborigines, and that everything has been done to prepare for the introduction and settlement of the large population that may naturally be expected to arrive from Europe. These measures have been adopted after due consideration, and the Bill is to provide for a difficulty of only temporary existence

in consequence of the delay in ascertaining the taining the western boundary of Ontario and the eastern boundary of the North-West Territories.

Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD—My hon. friend will see that a permanent Act doing away with that clause might create misunderstanding, and probably dissatisfaction.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-I shall consider whether it will be necessary to insert the words mentioned before the third reading of the Bill.

Mr. KIRKPATRICK--I think it very desirable that it should be a temporary Act, for in its wording I think that there are some very objectionable features. It assumes the delegation of our authority, not only to the Governor in Council, but further to the Lieutenant-Governor in Council, and the Lieutenant-Governor is to have the authority and power of altering our laws; that is, he is to have greater power than we give to any Provincial Legislature, greater than we gave last year to the Lieutenant-Governor in Council, in the North-West Territory, advised by Elective Council. I do not think that is right, nor do I consider that it was intended

an

such power should be granted to an irresponsible body, or the Lieutenant-Governor in Council. The hon. gentlemen present, who were in the House some years ago, will remember how sarcastically the present Chief Justice of Manitoba used to refer to this new institution of the Governor in Council; and this is now to be extended in a most remarkable manner. We are delegating these powers to the Lieutenant-Governor, with the power of altering, amending, and modifying any Acts, or Act, of the Parliament of Canada, or any parts thereof.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-Would my hon. friend allow me to tell him that this is simply a consolidation of the laws under which that Territory is governed to-day?

Mr. KIRKPATRICK—I think that my hon. friend is mistaken. I cannot find it in the North-West Territories Act.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE—I am not speaking of the North-West Territories Act of 1875, which is not in force, but of laws passed by my hon. friend's leader.

Mr. KIRKPATRICK-If the right hon. gentleman passed an objectionable law, I do not think that we should re-enact it. It is no reason because he is an ass, that you should be a basilisk. This would be over-riding the legislation of the country, and I think that when my hon. friend, the Minister of Justice, looks into it closely, he will see what I contend is really the case.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-I may say in answer to my hon. friend that this Bill has been, I believe, prepared with great care. Instructions were given that this should be done in the consolidation of the existing laws under which the territory is governed. We repeal the three Acts which are at present in force there, and simply re-enact a measure giving precisely the same powers; we did not intend to alter, and I do not believe that we have altered, these powers in any particular. Hon. Mr. TUPPER-I would like to ask the Head of the Government at what time he proposes to put the North-West Territories Act into opera- | tion?

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-I cannot

answer that question at the present

moment:

Hon. Mr. TUPPER-With reference to this Bill I congratulate the Government on the conclusion at which they have arrived, after careful consideration, concerning the other measure.

Last year we had the North-West Territories Bill introduced and passed. Provision had formerly been made for the Government of that Province by the Governor of Manitoba, and a Council composed of a number of gentlemen of high standing and of great ability, who had given a great deal of time and attention to any legislation, or any measures found necessary in this connection. The Administration thought it wise to introduce a Bill last Session, for the government of these Territories, abolishing this unpaid Council, and providing for the appointment of an independent and separate Government and Council, with the various other machinery required. It was also at the time announced to the House that it was the intention to establish that Government at Fort Pelly. It appeared to me that it would

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be wise to pause before incurring this new expenditure. new expenditure. We had already all that was necessary for the government of Manitoba. This Session we are asked to create a new authority, and what was the reason given? That there was a number of inhabitants in the adjacent district, and that it was desirable that they should be brought under the influence of the Local Government, but only until the

time when the boundaries were estab

tablished between Ontario and the North-West Territory. I understood my hon. friend to say he hoped that matter would be adjusted when Parliament would meet at the next Session. If this be the case I cannot understand why we should go to this expense.

Hon. Messrs. MACKENZIE and BLAKE-There will be no expense.

Hon Mr. TUPPER-The hon. genmen provides for the establishment of a Council.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-There will not be a dollar of expense.

Hon. Mr. TUPPER-Very well; I do not then understand why it is necessary to alter the North-West

as

Territories Act in relation to this section, if it is intended to put the Act in force at all, especially when my hon. friend told the House that he intended to ask for different legislation at the next Session of Parliament touching this matter. This is a question to which I am sure the House will give its most careful consideration. I think that the facts quite justify a postponement well as the wisdom of obtaining still further legislation with respect to this whole country before we materially change its form of Administration. It is besides inexpedient to adopt legislation for a single season. No doubt, it is very important that what is designed for new countries in this relation, shall be changed as seldom as possible, for people have become familiar with laws of a certain kind, and with a certain mode of Government, and it is not well that a year afterwards this legislation should be swept away to be replaced by another system. Experience shows the wisdom of a little delay in connection with such matters,

more

and we should comply with the dictates | and I consider that it would be only of experience in the present instance, prudent to take the necessary precauif we permit the measure to stand tions. With regard to the section it is over for a time. proposed to detach from the North-West Territory, I am of opinion that the provisions of the former Act would be found quite sufficient for the time being. That Act has been there administered during three or four years by a Council, which instead of having too much power, I consider had scarcely enough authority in several instances. Indeed, it was more an Advisory Council than anything else, and the Government has really been controlled from Ottawa; but nevertheless I must say that the Dominion Government has, on most occasions, given every consideration to the recommendations of this Council, and carried them out. I do think that for the moment the provisions of the old Act will be quite sufficient as regards the comparatively small portion settled, and of the district which it is to detatch, nine-tenths or ninety-nine. hundredths, or nine hundred and nine ninety-nine thousandths, will have no settlement for many, many years to come; and neither require legislation respecting taxation or schools, or almost any other purpose during that period. Settlement will be somewhat tardy between the Lakes Winnipegoosis and Winnipeg, also a small portion near the mouth of the Winnipeg River, and possibly near Fort Francis or Rainy River. I trust that the Government will persevere with the measure, and carry out the promises of the Act of last Session as concerns the large section of the territory west and north of Lake Winnipegoosis, which can be properly governed by any Council such as that which is proposed for the por tion to be detached in this Bill.

Mr. SMITH (Selkirk)-It must be -evident to everyone, and especially to those who are intimately acquainted with the subject, that a territory of such vast extent, cannot be properly and suitably governed from a point so distant as Winnipeg. At the same time I was very glad to hear the observations and explanations given by the Prime Minister--and that is, that the seat of Government of the proposed new Province is to be removed a considerable distance further west. In the North-West there are already very large settlements at different points near Bow River and the South Saskatchewan, and again beyond Edmonton, and at Fort Albert, &c., perhaps altogether comprising four or five thousand people; but there is also a district to the north of that again, equally well fitted for settlement with the region south of the Saskatchewan. A few days ago I received a letter from a gentleman in the Peace River District, who has travelled over the greater portion of the northern part of the territory, and he states his belief that for one acre of good land to the south of the Saskatchewan, there are five acres to the north. I am not quite so sanguine; but, at the same time, I know that there is a very large extent of country to the north which is as well suited for settlement as the portion to the south. Settlers will come both from the United States in the direction of Bow River, and also from British Columbia and the United States by way of Peace River, and it is absolutely necessary that there should be some legal Government to give attention to any difficulties which may arise.

It must be further recollected that in this portion of the Territory, the great body of the Indian population is found; these are very different to those in the south, and if there are any troubles to be experienced, danger is to to be apprehended from the Indian tribes living on the upper portion of the Saskatchewan. I do not, myself, fear any such troubles, but many do,

The Bill was read the second time.

SALARIES OF COUNTY COURT JUDGES.

The House then went into Committee to consider certain resolutions respecting the salaries of County Court Judges of the Province of Nova Scotia. Mr. Scatcherd took the Chair.

The Committee rose and reported the resolution.

ASSISTANT INSPECTORS OF PENITEN

TIARIES.

The House went into Committee to consider the following resolution:

"That it is expedient to provide that the Assistant Inspectors of Penitentiaries to be appointed under the Bill intituled 'An Act to 'provide for the appointment of Assistant In'spectors of Penitentiaries in Manitoba and 'British Columbia,' shall each receive a salary not exceeding two hundred and fifty dollars per annum and travelling expenses to be determined by the Governor in Council."

Mr. Scatcherd took the chair.

courtesy and the Committee granted as well as in the other case. Gentlemen who assume to take the farmers under their special protection, in the course. of the debate last night said there had been no petitions presented to the House. The same thing, I think, may be said of the resolution proposed the other day-there were no petitions in favour of the action taken. It was brought before the House without any apparent outside desire that such an enquiry should be made. I cannot see

The Committee rose and reported why the same argument was not used

the resolution.

CRIMINAL STATISTICS.

The House went into Committee again, Mr. Scatcherd in the chair, to consider the following resolution :—

"That it is expedient to provide that the Minister of Agriculture, or such other Minister as is mentioned in the Bill intituled 'An Act to make provision for the Collection and Registration of the Criminal Statistics of Canada,' shall cause to be paid out of any moneys which may be provided by Parliament for that purpose, to any Clerk, Officer or Sheriff filling up and transmitting the schedules required under the first section of the said Bill the sum of and the further sum of for each comprised in such schedule ; and to any officer transmitting the returns required under the second section thereof the sum of

Mr. BLAKE said he proposed to fill up the first blank with "$," the second with "5cts."and the third with the word "case," and the last with $1. In conformity with the announcement made on his motion for the second reading of the Bill he proposed two additional sub-sections.

The amendment was adopted, and the Committee rose and reported.

THE AGRICULTURAL INTERESTS.

The debate on this question was resumed by

Mr. PLUMB, who said I have been somewhat surprised at the disposition to oppose the passage of the resolution. It seems to me that the enquiry is one which very properly comes before the House. The fact that we have spent a great deal of time in discussing the propriety of making enquiry in another direction should be no

reason

why an interest so important as that which is involved in the resolution should not be treated with the same

against that Committee as was brought forward against the one proposed by the hon. member for Centre Wellingtɔn.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE----Will my hon. friend allow me a moment? I suggested to the hon. gentleman opposite that if we had a simple understanding, such as we had with the Chairman of the Committee on Manu-factures last year, that although the power to send for persons may be left in that motion to provide for it if necessary, people should not be called in unless there was some necessity for it, there would be no objection to the motion. I objected to it last night because of the power it conferred to send for persons, as I found two Sessions ago that this power was exercised very much to the detriment of the

public revenue. Thousands of dollars were spent during that Session in calling witnesses, many of whom seemed altogether unnecessary for the objects of the enquiry. If this suggestion is adopted, the Committee may be appointed at once.

Mr. PLUMB-I am not authorized to make any modification in the resolution. I do not see why it should not be treated in the same way as any other resolution before the House. If, as gentlemen claim, there is no de pression in the agricultural interests, the enquiry will do no harm. I am not prepared to say that one interest in this country can suffer without others being injured. I know there has been a very large competition on the frontier, and there has been a coustant increase in the importations from the United States. Last year we imported 5,105,258 bushels of wheat, and

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