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Government had conceded the point asked in favour of protection, we find that Mr. Macdonald of Glengary, then a member of this House, moved to restore flour and meal, the very articles upon which the member for North Oxford asked to have a duty imposed, to the free list. On the very next day the name of the hon. member for North Oxford was recorded in favour of that motion, and in oppositlon to that which he had asked the Government to do. That is the only charge upon that point which has been preferred against the hon. gentleman by the hon. member for Cumberland.

Mr. OLIVER—Allow me to make

one remark. I have never denied the

statement. I always stated that I voted for the amendment, and gave my reason on other occasions for doing That reason was that the Government, in place of leaving the tariff as it was first introduced, made a change

So.

and left wheat out.

Hon. Mr. TUPPER-Allow me to correct the statement just made by the hon. member for Hastings-that that was the only charge I made. I made a much wider charge than the one mentioned. It was that the hon. gentleman (Mr. Oliver) having induced the Government to adopt a policy which alienated a considerable section of their own supporters, turned round and on that very tariff joined in vote after vote and endeavoured to break

down the Government.

Mr. BOWELL-That is precisely what I was coming to. So far as the vote I alluded to was concerned, that was the only charge against the hon. member for North Oxford, and it was dexterously parried by the introduction of the question of wheat. I quite agree with the hon. gentleman that a duty should also have been imposed on wheat; but I find no record that the proposition first introduced by the Government of that day was subsequently changed. I do know, however, that the whole policy one year after was altered. But I cannot understand why a man who believes in the theory and propriety of the imposition of duties upon a number of articles, and discovers that he cannot get all he asks, must then turn round and

vote against the whole. There seems to be a difficulty in carrying on a strictly party Government as it is in this House, for we find a man advocating the imposition of a particular duty on a particular article, and before the words cease to reverberate through the halls, especially if he sees an opportu nity of defeating a Government against which he has arrayed himself, he does not hesitate to eat his own words and swallow any resolution which may have been proposed by himself. It would thus appear that a man's own consistency was of much less consequence than the turning out of a Government. No matter what policy my hon. friend may have advocated, or what resolutions he may have moved, if he voted against that policy and against a motion he himself made, it is quite evident that he was willing the farming interest, in fact every interest, should suffer so long as the Administration

was defeated.

On the general question I am, to all intents and purposes, a Protectionistyou may term it old fogeyism if you please. My experience and study have convinced me of this fact, that in all new countries where industries are de

veloping, the proper policy for a Ministry to adopt is one which will protect those industries until they are able to stand alone. In the past, both in England and in the United States, such a policy has been followed. Those countries have grown under it, and become wealthy, and their example warns us that free-trade is not adapted to Canada at present. I don't pretend to deny--it would be folly to do so-that as an abstract principle, freetrade may appear correct; but like many other theories which look well in argument, the moment you reduce it to practice we find it cannot be carried out. I hold that the true policy for Canada at this day, if we ever desire reciprocal trade with the United States, is to legislate exclusively for ourselves, without any respect whatever to our neighbours. The only way to do good is to place ourselves in a position that when they (the United States) shall desire freetrade with us we shall have something to give them in return. We should not, as in the past, surrender everything to

them. We should not have given them free navigation and other rights as we did under the Washington Treaty, which every member will recollect I opposed and voted against in the last Parliament. We find the present Government, however, sending an ambassador down to Washington to give up the pecuniary benefits we expected to derive from the difference between the value of their fisheries and ours. And what is the consideration? To enable us to get into their markets to sell the products of the West and the coals of the East.

They treated us just as I anticipated they would, and as I believe they will

on all future occasions when demands of a similiar character are made; and for this reason-we have nothing to offer them in reture for the reciprocal advantages we may seek. They contend that their fisheries are quite as valuable as our own, and that the benefits they extend to us under the Washington Treaty are sufficient compensation for any difference if such exist-in the value of the fisheries of the Maritime Provinces; and, in this regard, they will no doubt secure the best of the bargain, as has been the case in connection with almost every treaty they have negotiated with Great Bri tain, whether a question of boundaries or trade were concerned. Our only proper course is to block them in every port of this country. I am prepared to carry out the policy enunciated a short time ago by a gentleman who occupies a high position in the Dominion, holding that we should have reciprocity, if not in free-trade, at least in the shape of a protective tariff. Until that day arrives we will never prosper.

Mr. MILLS-Would you put a tax

on coal?

Mr. BOWELL---I would.
Mr. KILLAM-How much?

Mr. BOWELL—I care not how much; but at all events enough to protect your coal interests in Nova Scotia. If we do not adopt this course with regard to all coal-although anthracite is largely used in the part of the country where I live-the Nova Scotian article will never be properly protected. While I ask for a full protection for

the farmers' interests, I am quite ready to extend it to the fullest extent and secure a protective tariff in favour of every single article we produce in this country, country, more particularly if these products are kept out of the American market by duties.

Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-I did not

intend to speak on this question, and I would not do so, did I not wish to refer to some remarks which have been made by the Hon. Premier, with reference to the coal trade. When it is stated we can compete with the United States in this connection it must be

remembered that there are points beyond which we cannot do So. Terminating at the mouth of the Lachine Canal, as far as Montreal is concerned, Nova Scotia can compete with American coal, and is year after year maintaining its own; but ere we can find a market in Ontario, we must have the St. Lawrence Canals deepened to eighteen or nineteen feet, in order to enable our vessels to pass up to the western ports on the Lakes. At Montreal it costs thirty cents per ton to discharge coal from one vessel into another, and if we were to supply Ottawa or any western city, we must transfer it to the canal boats, losing by delay, renewal of insurances, and other expenses in this relation.

While I am a Free-Trader, I hold if we cannot get reciprocity in trade, give them a touch of reciprocity in tariff. I would like to have the canal question considered in connection with this. If this Dominion is to be bound together by commerce as well as by political ties, there must be an exchange of products. The hon. member for North Oxford says the effect of the national policy which he was so anxious to have adopted, and for which he voted, was to put $330,000 taxes on Ontario, but he forgot to say that the smaller population of the Maritime Provinces took 700,000 barrels of Ontario flour, paying $330,000 taxes for the protection which that national policy gave their industries.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-Both sides lost.

Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-The question of protection, I suppose, will be discussed when the Administration bring down their policy, and then I

will be prepared to state what my opinion is on that subject.

Mr. YOUNG-I think the hon.

members for Cumberland and North Hastings have very unfairly attacked the hon. member for North Oxford.

the assault of the Deputy Leader of the However, his constituents will regard Opposition as a high recommendation. An attempt has been made to represent him as inconsistent. I cannot see the

slightest inconsistency. He says he voted against the national policy after one year's experience had shown him that it was unsuitable to the country. He surely cannot be blamed for having voted according to his convictions. We have heard further that though he went on a deputation to urge the Govornment to put a duty upon certain articles, he voted against the same proposition a few days after. But the explanation is easily understood. He states distinctly that the

reason he so voted was because wheat

had been left out of the dutiable portion

of thetariff with a view to conciliate certain other interests; and that he, as representing an agricultural community, felt in duty bound to refuse the other portions of the tariff unless wheat was included in the list. He voted against the Government on that occasion, and the reasons he gave for his conduct are perfectly satisfactory and consistent.

But I do not think it lies in the mouth of the hon. member for Cumberland to

speak of inconsistency with regard to this question of tariff. If my hon. friend from North Oxford changed his position in one year, I can show that the member for Cumberland changed his vote in a few minutes on that question. When the Government brought down their tariff in 1871, it was proposed that the policy known as the national policy should be changed, and the majority of the House so decided. There was a resolution moved shortly afterwards by the hon. member for Hastings to this effect, seconded by Mr. Brown :—

"That in view of the negotiations now pending at Washington between representatives on the part of the British Empire and the United States, touching questions which may lead to a renewal of the Reciprocity Treaty, it is in the opinion of this House inexpedient to repeal the duties now imposed upon certain

articles enumerated in section two of the

Bill as amended. Be it therefore resolved that the Bill do not now pass, but that it be re ferred back-to Committee of the Whole, for the purpose of expunging all the words berepealed' in section two of said Bill." tween the word 'coke' and the words 'is hereby

This, Sir, was in fact a proposition who voted against it was Sir Francis to retain the duties on wheat coal and coke. And I find among those who voted against it was Sir Francis the name of the hon. member for CumHincks, and further down on the list was berland. So that if my hon. friend from North Oxford changed his position in one year on that question, my hon. in a few minutes. friend from Cumberland changed his But look at the action of the Gorvernment. The first

Session the duties on these articles were taken off; the very next year they were reimposed, and the following year were repealed. We all know when that took place on the floor of this House--when it was sought the third time to reimpose the duties---the

Finance Minister came down and

to

stated that suchwas his intention with regard to wheat and those other articles, but before he left he announced that the Government intended change their opinion. And then between six and half-past six he came that the Government intended to imagain to the House and informed them pose these duties. So they changed their policy every year for the first four years they were in power, and twice in a single day.

Young to order, as his remarks were At this point the SPEAKER called Mr. not relevant to the question before the House.

The motion was carried.

Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT---I wish to lay on the Table the statement of revenue and expenditure of the Dominion up to the 10th of February.

WELLAND CANAL.

Mr. McCALLUM moved an Address to His Excellency the Governor General for copies of all correspondence between the Department of Public Works and the Superintendent of the Welland Canal as to the damages to lands along the Grand River by raising the water in the upper level of the said canal; also copies of all instructions to valuators in valuing said damages; also of reports, if any, made by valuators

to the Government in the years 1874 Mr. JETTE introduced a Bill intitu75; also, the amount of damages paid, led "An Act to amend the Act respector to be paid, to different parties, giving the Citizen Insurance Investment ing number of acres paid for or to be Company." paid for.

He said :---My object in placing this motion in your hands, Mr. Speaker, is that the people I have the honour to represent in this House have a grievance against the Government. The Dominion Government some years ago, by instructions to their engineer, raised the banks of the upper level of the Welland Canal, thereby raising the water much higher for 15 miles than formerly. By that means they have flooded a considerable amount of land along the Grand River. The matter was brought before the notice of the Government last year, and surveyors were sent to value the land, but still the parties have not been paid for the land.

At Six o'clock the House adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

FRIDAY, February 25th. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Three o'clock.

After Routine,---

REPORTS AND BILLS.

Hon. Mr. LAIRD presented the Annual Report of the Minister of the Interior, also a Report on the Geology and Resources of the region in the vicinity of the Forty-Ninth Parallel from the Lake of the Woods to the

Rocky Mountains, by George Mercer Dawson, Geologist and Botanist to the Boundary Commission.

Mr. THOMPSON (Haldimand) introduced a Bill intituled "An Act to incorporate the Canada Fire and Marine Insurance Co."

Mr. JOHN MACDONALD (Toronto) introduced a Bill intituled "An Act to authorize the shareholders to the Union and Permanent Building Society to change the name of said Society."

Mr. IRVING introduced a Bill intituled "AnAct to enable W. Smith Amies to obtain letters patent for a new and useful article of Artificial Manure."

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EXPENSES OF ELECTION TRIALS. Hon. Mr. BLAKE moved that on Tuesday next the House will resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider the following resolu

tion:

"That it is expedient to provide that the

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travelling expenses of the Judge and all expenses incurred by the Sheriff or other officer in consequence of any sitting for trial, and for providing a Court room and any accessories under the Bill (No. 13) intituled: An Act to make more effectual provision for the administration of the Law relating to corrupt practices. at Elections of Members of the House of Commons,' shall be defrayed out of any moneys which may be provided by Parliament for the purpose.'

The motion was carried.

SALARIES OF COUNTY COURT JUDGES IN

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aforesaid.

"3. Resolved, That the said salaries and allowances may be paid out of any unappropriated moneys forming part of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of Canada.

"4. Resolved, That the 8th section of the Act passed in the 37th year of Her Majesty's Reign, intituled เ An Act to amend the Act 36th Victoria, Chapter 31, for the re-adjustment of the salaries of Judges and other purposes shall apply to the said County Court Judges in the Province of Nova Scotia, and that they shall be entitled to the same retiring allowance or annuity on the same condition and payable in the same manner as if they were expressly referred to and included in the said section."

The motion was carried.

A Bill founded on the resolution was introduced and read the first time.

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TIARIES.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE moved the reception of the report of the Committee of the Whole on the following resolution : "Resolved, That it is expedient to provide that the Assistant Inspectors of Peaitentiaries to be appointed under the Bill intituled 'An Act to provide for the appointment of Assistant Inspectors of Penitentiaries in Manitoba and British Columbia,' shall each receive a salary not exceeding two hundred and fifty dollars per annum and travelling expenses, to be determined by the Governor in Council."

The motion was carried.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE moved that the resolution be referred to the same Committee as the Committee on Bill Number 2.

ASSISTANT INSPECTORS OF PENITEN- His Excellency in his opening Address to Parliament, that the distress in question was rather local and special great than general, and that the bulk of our people still continue to enjoy a condition of reasonable prosperity-although I think that that statement is true, and admits of reasonable demonstration, still I am not at all disposed to deny that there are cases of great hardship existing in this country. At the same time, Sir, I think I am justified in saying that, although the particular crisis and the particular form which it has assumed, were not, in the very nature of things, and could not be, calculated upon; still, as the House is aware I have always contended, from the fact that there is there is a very considerable diminution in our imports into this country, and of the revenue derived therefrom, that this might not unreasonably be expected. This, in effect, was foreseen, and to a considerable extent discounted beforehand. think I shall be able to show the House that there are certain important mitigating circumstances which may go far to reiieve the apprehension which many persons have, not ally expressed at the state of things which at present exists. Without at all desiring to underestimate the gravity of the commercial crisis to which I have referred, I believe, Sir, that this country has had other and much

The motion was carried.

CRIMINAL STATISTICS.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE moved the reception of the report of the Committee of the Whole on the following resolution:

"1. Resolved, That is expedient to provide that the Minister of Agriculture, or such other Minister as is mentionéd in the Bill intituled, 'An Act to make provision for the collection and registration of the Criminal Statistics of Canada,' shall cause to be paid out of any moneys which may be provided by Parliament for that purpose, to any Clerk, Officer or Sheriff filling up and transmitting the schedules required under the first section of the the said Bill the sum of one dollar and the prised in such schedule; and to any officer transmitting the returns required under the

further sum of five cents for each case com

second section thereof the sum of one dollar."

The motion was carried.

And I

unnatur

Hon. Mr. BLAKE moved that the graver crises in its history than the

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BUDGET.
CARTWRIGHT-Mr.

move

the

am about

THE Hon. Mr. Speaker,-In rising to resolution which I to place in your hands, I may say at the outset that it would be both idle and dishonest on my part to attempt to conceal from the House, that the circumstances under which we meet such as deserve Our very gravest consideration. It is unfortunately too true that we are now passing and have been passing for a period of several months, through a commercial crisis great and almost unparalleled in severity; and, although I think that the statement made by

are

one through which we are now passing, and that it has emerged from them comparatively without injury to its reproductive powers. It may appear paradoxical to say so, but in my judgment the position of this country is really far less dangerous to day than it was two or three years ago. And I make this assertion the more pointedly because I see that certain parties, both in this House and out of it, are in danger of falling into an error which I desire to correct so far as in me lies. A few years ago, as everybody in this House knows, many persons were betrayed into undue confidence from supposing that the remarkable expansion which had then taken place îndicated an absolute substantial progress. Now, I never desired or intended to deny that there was underlying that expan

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