in Ontario do? Are they not citizens of Canada, with the rights of citizenship? Does any one wish to deprive the hon. gentleman of his rights as a citizen? Then why does he wish to deprive our Bishops and Priests of their rights? Surely the Government will not try to do such an injustice as to deprive a large and respectable body of gentlemen of their rights; those rights they must have and must keep, and no doubt shall keep. But the hon. gentleman the President of the Council gives the support of his voice, his name and his position to this; he wishes to make a separation between Church and State; he wishes to show that the Priests and the Bishops must confine themselves to religious matters; that is to say, all these matters that belong to the Church. and that are treated in the Church, in the pulpit and in the vestry. But he says when you are to build canals or legislate on matters of public works surely you can differ from your neighbour and be a Catholic the same as before. I know, and he knows that in this House, and in the Local Legislature, we have not only to deal with canals, railways and public works, but we will have other mattersfor instance, the question of divorce, which is considered by our Church as a matter in which the Church has a great deal to say. Will the hon. gentleman say that the Priests shall have nothing to say in this matter which is against the teachings of his Church? Surely as a citizen he should recognize the Roman Catholic clergy and their right in this question, in which they exercise so much influence for the good of their country. You have never seen the Roman Catholic clergy of Quebec disloyal; they have always upheld the supremacy of Great Britain in this country, and the Mother Country never had, and never will have, more thoroughly loyal and devoted subjects than the priests of Lower Canada and of the Dominion. I do not want to detain the House much longer, but I must repeat that it is unfortunate that the Hon. the First Minister of the Crown should not come down and say openly whether the doctrines propounded by the Postmaster General are the doctrines that he professes. As long as the Postmaster General sits alongside of him in the same Cabinet he is responsible for his opinions as a Minister of the Crown. These statements have been made by the hon. getleman, and he has stated that they were the views of his colleagues, that they were the doctrines of his colleagues, and if they were otherwise he would certainly resign his seat. Has he resigned his seat? Has he gone out of the Government? Has he repudiated these doctrines? No, he has not; he remains there, the same doctrines remain there, the same wish on the part of the First Minister to retain the Roman Catholics in Lower Canada is there, yet the President of the Council remains and supports him. He has been called upon by the hon. member for Terrebonne to say whether the First Minister accepts these doctrines or not; but I need not say a word more than the written declaration that he read to the House. He was so afraid of uttering a word that would compromise his colleagues about these doctrtnes that he would not risk himself otherwise than by a written speech. It is a proper thing the country should know that the Hon. President of the Council, when called upon by members of this House and of his own Province-when called upon to speak-could not give an answer. Mr. Speaker, Lower Canada will know it, and the answer from the people will, no doubt, be of the same character as the answer Lower Canada has given since the speech of the Postmaster General. The first answer was given in Chambly, where the people said it was an unfortunate speech, and sent to this House a member to oppose the Government. The county of Charlevoix has given the same answer. They repudiated the member who had so long supported the hon. gentleman opposite, brought down his majority of 700, and elected me by a majority of 211. Mr. DEVLIN-The question submitted by the hon. member for Chateauguay has evoked a discussion which imposes upon me the obligation of offering a few remarks on the subject before it is finally disposed of. I am not surprised at the question submitted by the honourable gentleman. I am aware that the speech of the Hon. Postmaster General has evoked a very strong feeling in the Province of Quebec, that it has not subsided up to the present moment, and I think all things considered it is well these matters should be fairly ventilated on the floor of this House. It should not be left in the power of those who are so ready and willing to profit by every word spoken in order to damage the Reform party in this country. I say at once as an Irishman and a Catholic that I do not concur in the remarks of the Hon. Postmaster General, and I am obliged to say that it was a most unfortunate speech. I have no hesitation in adding that it has placed a weapon in the hands of our opponents which they have, up this moment, very successfully used, and one which they will continue to use until it has become so worn out and effaced that they will be ashamed to use it any longer. Now I believe I am justified in saying there is not a Catholic in Quebec who respects the pastor of his church who can give any adhesion to the opinions enunciated by the Postmaster General. It is impossible for Catholics to stand up in this House, in my humble judgment, and defend that speech, but I say plainly, that the hon. gentleman who spoke last looks upon it as a Godsend to the Opposition, because really without that speech I do not know what subject the hon. gentleman could address himself to in this House that would be palatable to his readers outside of it. I do not know any subject which could excite his eloquence except the speech which I call unfor tunate, but which he ought to call very fortunate indeed. It would seem, himself as the Leader of the Ultramontanes. Mr. MASSON-I did not. Mr. DEVLIN-Then I am in error, but I know no such Catholics in Quebec or elsewhere. All who belong to the Roman Catholic Church are of the one faith; there are no sections. You cannot call a Catholic by any other name and, therefore, when we are spoken of as Ultramontane Catholics we are spoken of in a manner which is not understood by those who are Catholics. It would seen from the remarks that have been addressed to this House that a huge conspiracy was organized by the Government of this country, having for its object the annihilation of the Catholics of Quebec. hilation of the Catholics of Quebec. I have unlimited confidence in the justice and fairness of the hon. gentleman who leads this Government. I believe the Catholics of this country have no reason to fear hostility from that quarter. Mr. WHITE (Hastings)-You have more confidence than Father Dowd has in you. Mr. DEVLIN-I believe the hon. in member for Hastings is a leader of the Orange Brotherhood. He sits very near the hon. member for Terrebonne, and shakes hands with the hon. member for Charlevoix. He has, on head approvingly when he heard that more than one occasion, nodded his our religious institutions were danger. It must be a great consolation to the leader of the Ultramontanes, and still greater for the hon. member for Charlevoix, to have their speeches, their Catholic speeches, endorsed by a Grand Master of the Orangemen. I wonder if that hon. gentleman, who has spoken so loudly and so zealously in defence of Catholic rights, would go down to Charlevoix tomorrow or next day and stand on the platform addressing himself to the honest French Canadians, and say: "I me very forcibly, from certain indica-spoke that speech in the House, and the tions which are quite remarkable here man who applauded me loudest was this evening, there will be some rivalry a leader of the Orangemen. It is in the Opposition ranks, and that some well known, and it may be as well to one will not have exactly a bed of roses say it now, that all the vitality, or to lie upon on that side of the House. nearly all of it, that is to be found However, I think it proper to say I in the Opposition ranks emanates was surprised when I heard the from the Orange Society of this hon. member for Terrebonne describe Dominion. They could not exist from the remarks of the hon. member for Terrebonne, that he styles himself leader of the Ultramontane Catholics. Now the question will be decided very shortly who is the leader-whether it is the hon. member for Charlevoix or the hon. member for Terrebonne. It strikes a week if it were not for the support they receive from that quarter; and yet some Catholic leaders of the Opposition have had the temerity to rise in this House and proclaim their Catholicity and our anti-Catholicity. As a Catholic I have unbounded confidence in the justice and fairness of the present Government, and I believe that at the present day the Catholic religion and every religion which is known in this Dominion is surrounded by all the safeguards which can possibly be required at the hands of those who desire to exercise it in this country. I think there is not, perhaps, in the wide world a country that can boast such freedom as we enjoy, and I believe that no one, whether he be a Minister of the Crown or simply a member of the House, will be permitted to create religious turmoil and confusion in this country. I believe the good sense of the country would stamp out any attempt of that kind the moment it is made, and that the people of this country understand well that the man who would seek to embroil us in religious animosities would be regarded as the worst enemy of the Dominion. I believe so far as the present Government have gone on, they have conducted the Government of this country with impartiality and integrity. I ask any gentleman on the other side of the House in the ranks of the Opposition to point to one single measure, emanating from the present Government or their supporters, having for its object the overthrow of the Catholic religion, tending to impair its usefulness, or tending in any manner or form to cast impediments or obstructions in its way? It is impossible for any gentlemen to do so. Therefore I feel that I am justified, so long as the Government is conducted as it is now, in raising my humble voice on the floor of this House in defense of a Government founded upon justice and impartiality. I might be permitted to say that all the difficulty which we labour under in the Province of Quebec, all the discussions which have taken place there for some time back in religious matters of an acrimonious nature, have been begotten by the leaders of the Opposition in that Province. I tell them they trade in this, that they know in their hearts they dare not stand up in this House and say the Catholic Church is in danger from any act of this Government. The difficulties in Quebec have been inspired by the leaders of the Opposition, and to such an extent has it been carried out, that a man who is called a Reformer and a Catholic is pointed out by these gentlemen as a very dangerous individual who ought to be muzzled or put into that lunatic asylum which the hon. gentleman says the DeBoucherville Government was willing to grant to the Protestants. Speaking of that subject the hon. gentleman from Terrebonne said, "See how liberal we are in Quebec! A deputation went to the Capital of the Province and asked for a Lunatic Asylum. Mr. De Boucherville said, "If you don't want to put your patients in the lunatic asylum we will give you one for yourselves." And, why not? Is not that the right of the Protestants? One would suppose from the way the Protestants of Quebec have been spoken of by the leaders of the Opposition, that they were a body of paupers depending upon the charity of the party with which the hon. member for Charlevoix is associated, and when any justice is done to them in Quebec the hon. members for Terrebonne and Charlevoix raise their hands and say, see what we have done!" They forget there are 66 others besides Tories among those who have done acts of justice to the Protestants of Quebec. I deny that the Protestants of that Province have got more than their rights. They have the privilege of educating their own children, so have the Catholics in Ontario; and so, I hope, will the Catholics of New Brunswick at no distant day. Mr. PICARD They have it now. Mr. DEVLIN-I heard the hon. member for Charlevoix say that the Leader of the Government is in accord with the speech delivered by the Postmaster General. I understand from what he said he is not. It is possible, even if the Premier were to swear to it, that the hon. gentleman opposite would say there was some reserve. I understood the Leader of the Government to say he was not in accord with the speech, and further, that he would countenance no act or Mr. WHITE (Hastings) — Every Catholic in this Dominion will be pleased to hear from the Irish gentleman, the leader of the Canadian Catholics, that the Government is not prepared to introduce legislation injuriously affecting them; yet that gentleman who would not hear a Minister of his Church insulted is the same who stood up here last session and said the statement of the Bishop of New Brunswick was not correct, and who had recently insulted Father Dowd. The hon. member says the hon. gentleman from Terrebonne is my leader. I will admit that I would ten times sooner acknowledge him as my leader than sit in company with the hon. member for Montreal Centre. Mr. DEVLIN-The hon. gentleman may rely upon it, he will never be in my company, nor I in his. The gulf that separates us is too wide. Mr. WHITE-Let me tell the hon. member, I have no desire to be in the company of one who sympathises with those who are rebellious to the British Crown. I will tell the hon. gentleman another fact, that I want no association with a man who was accused by the public press of this country with being in sympathy with those who took the life of an eminent Irish statesman because he stood in his way. Mr. DEVLIN-Oh! Several Members-Order! shame! etc. Mr. WHITE (Hastings) Mr. Speaker, I wish to say to the hon. gentleman that when he interrupts me I will defend myself. I did not intend to say anything to injure the feelings of any party. Mr. DEVLIN-You cannot injure me, Sir. Mr. WHITE-The hon. gentleman, I presume, is beyond injury. Mr. DEVLIN-I have no doubt, I am beyond injury from you. Mr. WHITE-The hon. gentleman must bear in mind that he has no right to say anything against the society that I have the honor to be a member of. The sentiments of that society are the sentiments which have just been uttered by the hon. member for Terrebonne. I want to tell the hon. member for Quebec Centre, who interrupted me, that the Globe once said his dishonest acts smelled to Heaven. I want to tell the Hon. the President of the Council that it was necessary for the members for Montreal East and Jacques Cartier to drag him through the Lachine Canal to so cleanse him as to Mr. SPEAKER-I shall have to call the hon. member to order. said anything which is out of place. Mr. WHITE-I will apologise if I member for Terrebonne is concerned, I Let me just say, that so far as the made a remark, and then the hon. gentlemen opposite raised some hisses at the sentiments I uttered, which I believe to be correct, and for which he worked in every part of the country. impressing upon people to attend to their own Church and opinions. That is the sentiment of the Orange institution. They are ready to defend and maintain their own right and give every man every man the right to worship according to his own conscience. I ask you,now, if I am wrong? That was the explanation, Mr. Speaker, I was going to make when interrupted. This discussion is unfortunate, but it was brought on by the hon. member for Chateauguay. The hon. gentleman complains that I should get up and not. endorse the remarks of the Postmaster General. Who can do that what he has not got the courage and independence to say that "those are my sentiments and I will stand by them." He said they were the sentiments of his colleague. The Protestant horse has often been set up by the ministerial parties of this country. Not long ago the Globe rode the Pro- | my speech went no further than his. testant horse, but where is it now? In the province of Quebec there is a And, Mr. Speaker, who can forget the great deal of bitterness in politics, and time when the hon. member for South matters had come to such a point that Ontario ran in Lambton, when the it was a reproach to be a Liberal Cathopresent Premier made it a charge lic. I do not know enough of theology against him for standing in the streets to discuss the point, but I think Chief of Quebec and looking at the Host Justice Dorion is just as good a Chrisas it passed ? Who can forget tian and a better leader than the hon. the time when the hon. member member for Terrebonne, who is styled for Bruce brought in his resolutions in the leader of the Ultramontanes. Lookthe Local House to give a reward for ing at the great conflict going on inthe apprehension of the murderers of Lower Canada, and being among my Scott, and that he was the first in this own people-the people over whom I House to support a motion for granting desired to exercise a certain influence-the same murderers an amnesty? which intention I then and there deAll these matters can be brought scribed, I spoke to them of the dreads up plainly before the people of this I had of the Ultramontanes, and I country, and now the Protestants of asked them to give to the Liberals Upper Canada say that the Postmaster their aid. This is the head and front General has denounced the Church of of my offending, so far as I am conRome, and must keep within bounds. cerned. I said, what I say now, that Before I take my seat, I desire to say they ought to do it, and I believe they that I did not intend to say anything will do it. And I hope that the Liboffensive or out of order. This is the erals of Quebec will not be frightened first time, Mr. Speaker, you have risen by the almost universal expression of to call me to order, but I intend, when this House, that such sentiments are any hon. gentleman interrupts me, to to be repudiated. I repeat that I am strike back as hard as I know how. not ashamed of my alliance with the Liberals of Quebec. They, like me, have held up free institutions against influences so powerful that the hon. member for Charlevoix dare not down in his own county, make a speech like the one the hon. member for Montreal Centre made. I don't wish to enter upon any further discussion of my speech. It was a simple appeal to my own people, telling them what I believed to be the dangers of the country and asking them to support those who upheld the views I believe to be sound in politics. I am not ashamed of that speech, but I deeply regret it has caused this discussion, and I regret more still that it has placed such a friend as the hon. member for Montreal Centre in an embarrassing position. I was not speaking as a Minister, but as a Lower Canadian and a citizen of that Province. I said there what I repeat here. I repeat that the true course of the British population in Quebec to-day is to ally themselves with the Liberals in their effort to maintain free institutions. Hon. Mr. HUNTINGTON - Mr. Speaker, I think at this stage of the discussion a few remarks from me will be in order. I made a speech in Argenteuil which has been very generally discussed. It was not a religious speech; it was a speech which, so far as I was concerned, had no reference to religion. It was a speech which opened up subjects which I had no intention to discuss in this House, because I should be sorry to follow the example of those who preceded me and enter so largely into a religious disputation. It was a speech pronounced by myself in my native Province of Quebec to the people whom I may call my own people, upon what I regard important subjects in which they are concerned. No member of the Government is responsible for that speech, and I have the right to express my individual opinions there to my own people. The opinions which I expressed are my opinions; they were my opinions then and are my opinions now. And when I hear gentlemen like my hon. friend from Montreal Centre expressing his grief, I feel regret that he has never seen my letter, by which it is made plain that Hon. MALCOLM CAMERON---It is time a little common sense entered into this discussion. I am proud that my |