LICENSING OF ENGINEERS.

Mr. COOK moved the second reading of the Bill to provide for the examination and licensing of persons employed as Engineers elsewhere than on steamboats.

Bill affects

Mr. SPEAKER-The trade and commerce, and my impression is it should be introduced by resolution in Committee of the Whole. Last Session a Bill on the same subject, introduced by the hon. member, was ruled out for that reason.

Mr. COOK-You refer to another Bill. The object of this measure is to get a competent class of men. I do not see why it is not in order. It would have the effect of improving this class of engineers.

It will also have the effect of creating a revenue; I find from the returns, that such has been derived yearly from steamboat inspection. In 1870, $5,122.11 ; 1871, $2,048.96; 1872, $3,210.43; 1874, $5,311.61; and 1875, $2,830.12. We do not hear of accidents on steamboats, but a paper is scarcely taken up that does not contain information that a boiler has exploded in some factory or mill, large numbers of people being killed. Two years ago an explosion occurred in a factory at Picton, and it was proved conclusively to have been due to the incapacity of the engineer. Mr. Platt, at the time wrote congratulating me on the introduction of a similar Bill, and hoped that it would not be withdrawn, as it was a necessary measure. Not only lives are endangered, but a great amount of property is destroyed; the lives of the people so exposed should be protected, and I trust that the Government will not be hostile to the Bill.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-If the views of my hon. friend could be carried out, the effect, I do not doubt, would be beneficial in many instances; but there is a broad distinction to be drawn between the class of engineers charged with the care of steamboats, containing perhaps one thousand passengers, and those who are simply proprietors of a shingle machine worked by themselves in some remote part of the country. It is equally certain that we could not reach all the persons

mentioned in our legislation; it would impose a very heavy duty on Government officials, a larger staff would be required, and a tax would become necessary. I may at once inform my hon. friend that the Government are not prepared to adopt his views, because they believe that they could not possibly carry them out, and because it would not be well or wise to do so if they could, to the extent the hon. gentleman proposes. He cannot, moreover, as a private member, introduce a Bill which would levy a tax on any portion of Her Majesty's subjects, or dispose of public moneys so obtained; and I think, that having explained his views, he should be satisfied and withdraw the measure.

Mr. ROCHESTER-I am sorry to hear the hon. Premier make this statement, for I think that it is necessary to have skilled engineers in mills and factories as on steamboats. In many mills from one to three hundred people are employed, and legislation in the direction proposed is very advisable.

| the ground that this was a matter regarding which we cannot competently legislate, but one which I think belongs the Provincial Legislatures.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-I took

Mr. ROCHESTER-I am not prepared to say that it is not constitutional; but if we cannot take such action the Local Governments should adopt some measure in this connection.

Mr. MILLS-The hon. gentleman will notice in the second section of the British North American Act that such legislation appertains to the Provincial Parliaments.

Mr. COOK-Do steamboat inspectors come under the control ofthe Local Legislatures ?

Mr. MILLS-No; for that is a matter connected with navigation, but the engineer of a saw-mill has nothing to do with commerce.

Hon. Mr. BLANCHET-I regret the position taken by the Premier. A few years ago an accident happened in Quebec, owing to the explosion of a donkey engine, and last summer a man was killed there, I believe, in consequence of a similar mishap. The hon.

member for Bothwell will, perhaps, be able to say whether donkey engines are controlled by the Dominion or Local Legislature. Probably by the former, because they are employed on vessels and docks. Legislation preventing accidents would protect the public, and hence would be very desirable.

Mr. COOK—I must say I was very much surprised on hearing the remarks that have fallen from the Premier.

Mr. SPEAKER Does the hon.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-I think the hon. gentleman from North Simcoe did not understand the latter portion of my remarks. I doubted whether this House was competent to deal with this subject. I do not at present think that we can do so. I moreover questioned the policy of going so far as the hon. gentleman proposes, even if it were within our power.

Mr. COOK-Under the circumstances I will leave the matter over for

be taken under consideration.

Mr. COOK—I wish to give vent to a few remarks regarding the discussion that has already taken place.

I am very much surprised at the attitude of the Premier. If he is not aware that there are larger establishments than shingle mills in this country, where steam engines are used, requiring the services of competent engineers, I will inform him on the subject. Mills exist where from 150 to 200 men are engaged, and a very large number are employed in other factories. I imagine the Premier will recollect that last year he had the boilers in this building inspected by the Chairman of the Board of Inspectors. It was then discovered that they were very rusty, and if they had been subjected to a heavy pressure the consequences might have been disastrous, while the House in

was

Session. These facts are incontrovertible, and under these circumstances, and when the Government finds it necessary to employ in asylums and other public buildings engineers furnished with certificates, I do not see why this should not be generally required. I hope that the technical objection taken will be dropped, and that the measure will be allowed to become law. The tax would be light and a revenue would be created.

Mr. COCKBURN-The law proposed would be a hardship upon many small establishments. I have been requested by parties throughout the country to state that they are not prepared for such a regulation, which should be deferred until the public is educated up to the proper point. If the Bill is not withdrawn I must vote against it.

up again.

SIR JOHN A. MACDONALD—I think my hon. friend who introduced this Bill must see that there is no use in keeping it on the paper. The Hon. First Minister says he opposes it in House has no jurisdiction, and in the the first place on the ground that this second place, that if the House had jurisdiction it ought not to pass the Bill. Under such circumstances it seems I

hopeless to keep it on the paper.

am inclined to concur with the view taken by the hon. member for Bothwell, that this is a matter for local legislation.

Mr. ROCHESTER-If the Premier

has decided correctly, that this House has no jurisdiction, I should say nothing There is, however, a more about it. great deal to be said in favour of the measure, and I think it will be well to let it remain on the paper.

Mr. McDOUGALL (Renfrew) moved the adjournment of the debate. The motion was carried.

THE NATIONAL EXCHANGE CO.

On motion of Mr. Scatcherd, the Bill to incorporate the National Exchange Co., was read the second time, and referred to the Select Standing Committee on Banking and Commerce.

ASSISTANT INSPECTORS OF PENITENTI

ARIES.

The House then went into Commit tee on Bill No. 2-An Act to provide for the appointment of Assistant Inspectors of Penitentiaries in Manitoba (Resolution and British Columbia. reported from Committee of the Whole on Friday, 25th February, referred). Mr. Scatcherd took the Chair. The Committee rose and reported

Hon. Mr. TUPPER moved an Address to His Excellency the Gover. nor General, for a Return of the names and ages of all employes of the Montreal Custom House who have been superannuated within the last two years, with causes of such superannuation; names names of all of all persons who have been taken into the Public Service during the same period in connection with the Montreal Custom House, whether as permanent employes or as supernumaries, and the salary paid to each, and for what period, and showing whether they are still employed.

The motion was carried.

SIX NATION INDIANS.

Mr. PATERSON moved an Address to His Excellency the Governor General for all correspondence which has taken place between the Council of the Six Nation Indians and the Indian Department, with reference to the payment of accrued interest moneys which belong to them and which have been added to their general fund; and also for a statement showing the amount of said interest moneys.

He said: I may remark that the Hon. Minister of the Interior is not in his place, but some of his colleagues may give the information. The motion refers to a matter with which I am somewhat conversant. I may mention that the correspondence is of this nature: The Six Nation Indians have $800,000

invested by the Government. During the past thirty years there have been large sums of money, by way of accrued interest, which have been paid to the Government, and which, instead of having been paid to the Indians as they are entitled to, have been merged in their general fund. They have condebts with tracted merchants, these debts. They have memorialized and they now desire to pay the Government asking that the amount of accrued interest be paid them in order to do so. I have taken this opportunity of pressing the matter upon the notice of the Government, in order that they shall concede what is just and right, bearing in mind the fact that the Indians are asking for their own money, not the public money. They do not ask that the general fund should be trenched upon in the least, but they ask for the accrued interest, to enable them to pay their debts as honest men. The amount they require is about $75,000 about $75,000; they feel persuaded that there is that amount of money due them, but it is not known exactly. I have asked for a statement of this accrued interest, but it will necessitate a great deal of trouble to the Department. I will say on behalf of the Indians that they will be perfectly satisfied if their request for $75,000 is granted. I would ask that the Minister of the Interior should have the statement furnished as soon as possible, so that I may be in a position to convey back some answer to them on my return from the House.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE-My hon. friend, the Minister of the Interior, has no objection to the adoption of the motion with this alteration: "together with an approximate statement," instead of "statement." The hon. gentleman will observe that there is great difficulty in making out the accrued account, and for the present an approximate statement will answer.

The motion was carried.

DREDGING THE MIRAMICHI RIVER. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL moved an Address to His Excellency the Governor General, for copies of instructions given to the officer in charge of the steam dredge employed clearing the bar at the entrance of the Miramichi River,