managed by the contractor than by the Government. He thought the Administration should still be prepared to carry emigrants and freight by the Dawson route if any attempt were made by the Americans to enforce higher rates. It should not be given up altogether. He understood the Americans would still further reduce their rates this year. It was hardly fair to say it was money thrown away to spend on the railroads connecting with the water ways, provided they were adopted for an all-rail road,-and were not taken out of the way. Mr. SCHULTZ-What would the hon. gentlemen use it for, because it has been shown to be of very little practical use heretofore? Mr. SMITH said the hon. gentleman would surely allow it was a very different thing to have a railroad and to have of a waggon road. Many things could be brought into the country by means of a rail and water route which could not be carried by an ordinary waggon or cart, and they could be usefully employed while progress was being made with the railroad. He would be very sorry to see it stop short with this rail and water route. On the contrary, he hoped and trusted there would be a through railroad carried out with all possible speed. Mr. TROW dissented from the ex been shown the emigrants, the con- to Pembina, but there was a connecting the American route. come Hon. Mr. TUPPER said any one who had heard the hon. member for South Wellington must to the conclusion it was impossible for us to hope to compete with the American lines. The main advantage of the Dawson Route was to save us from being at the mercy of the Americans. He wished to know whether there was not precisely the same objection to expending money on railways and water stretches between Thunder Bay and Red River that existed (in a greater degree he admitted) against the Daw pression of several members with regard to the Dawson route. He had the pleasure (not the torture) of passing over that route in 1874, and he thought the correct policy for the Government son route? He would show the House would be to continue it. The plant what the route was the Premier prois joint property. It was there, and, of posed to construct, and was now concourse, valuable, and could be used for structing, and ask whether every dolthe water stretchers. By the construc- lar that was to be expended on that tion of a railway from Thunder Bay to line would not be completely thrown Shebandowan, a distance of some 45 or away. Last Session the Premier said : 50 miles, the stage would be done away" One of the most important things to with for that distance. Then there were “he looked to in opening up our North very few portages in the water way" West country is to obtain speedy from Shebandowan to the North-West Angle, and when the balance of the railroad was completed from there to Red River, emigrants could be taken from Fort William to Winnipeg in the course of three or four days. It was a very pleasant route. He had travelled it, and so far from discourtesy having" be driven for any length of time to means of ingress from Lake Supe"rior. It is felt that it is extremely "difficult for us to pour a large popu"lation into that country when the "liam westward is so great; and it is expense of transport fro:n Fort Wil“liam "deemed advisable that we should not This was the description of the line of communication that the First Minister is now engaged to make: "The "entire distance from Red River to "Lake Superior is in round numbers. "430 miles by the Dawson route. Of "this we have surveyed and located เ a line, and asked for tenders for 155 or 160 miles. This leaves a distance "between the two points of 270 miles. "Of that distance we will be able, by "constructing two cheap wooden "locks at Fort Francis, to obtain from "Rat Portage uninterrupted steam navigation for a distance of nearly "200 miles to Sturgeon Fails, at the "east end of Rainy Lake. From this point eastwards towards Lake She"bandowan, although there is a con"tinuous water navigation with a "number of small portages, still the "country is, on the whole, tolerably "favourable." 66 66 There are 200 miles of water stretches and half a dozen portages, which amount to a dozen transhipments. What would hon. gentlemen say of this road after all the enormous expenditures that have been made, involving the construction of locks, portages and railways from Shebandowan to Rat Portage and Red River? He would give the Premier's own description of the work when finished: "We hope within two years, or two "and half at the outside, that we will "have a railway finished at the eas"tern and western ends, and with these "and the locks at Fort Francis we expect that the distance altogether may be traversed in four or five days at the outside, that now takes on the everage from nine to twelve "days." He asked the hon. gentleman whether he could for a single instant question the statement of the hon. member for Lisgar, who said that when all expen diture had been incurred and the line provided, every dollar would be thrown away, because the immigrants will go from Duluth to Winnipeg by rail instead of spending four or five days to get from Thunder Bay to Red River. The remarks which had fallen from the First Minister had disappointed him, because he was in hopes that the years of delay which had taken place would have led him to propound à different policy in relation to this mea sure. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE--I have propounded no policy. had Hon. Mr. TUPPER supposed the Premier had propounded a policy to the House. He had taken the hon. gentleman's own words, and had hoped that he would have adopted the course pressed upon him some two years ago, and again last Session. He was extremely anxious that the line should. commence at Nepigon, and take the course which would save sixty or eighty miles to travellers from this section of the country to Red River. But the hon. gentleman adopted a different course, and had selected Thunder Bay. He had hoped that further consideration, examination and reflection on this question wonld have brought the hon. gentleman to the conclusion-in which he would have have been sustained by every gentleman in the House-that instead of building 150 miles of railway through a difficult country, and connecting with water stretches that would render every dollar of the money utterly useless, he would announce his intention to push as rapidly as possible the connection from Shebandowan to Rat Portage by rail. If that were done, the expenditure, it is true, would be larger, but we would have a line to compete with that from Duluth. The policy of continuing these water stretches he regarded as fatal. The expenditure on the work would be thrown away, and the Americans would still monopolise the transportation of immigrants in this section. He hoped the Hon. First Minister would ask the assent of Parliament to push that line of rail from Thunder Bay to the waters of the Rel River. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE--I cannot imagine that the hon. gentleman was in when I spoke, or he would not have made his speech. I stated distinctly that we had had a line surveyed on a much more favorable route than ever before obtained from Lake Superior to Rat Portage. Hon. Mr. TUPPER-I entirely misunderstood the hon. gentleman. i anderstood him to refer to the contracts between the line from Nepigon and that from Thunder Bay. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said from the summit level they had obtained a much more favourable route than the Nepigon one, and reached that point by at least as short a distance as if they had gone by the northern and most expensive route. The hon. gentleman seemed to object to their using the water in the meantime. What could What could any person do but use the best means of communication between the two points points until the railway could be constructed? It might or might not suit the financial affairs of the country to have this road built---that was for the future to determine; but it was the policy of the Government to have the road constructed as soon as possible, and they would strain every nerve to that end. Their policy in the meantime was to build to the water and use it as means of communi cation between the two points during the interval. As he had stated, it would take, under the most favourable circumstances, four or five years to connect; but were they to stand idle and refuse to put a canoe or a steamboat on those lakes until that work was completed. Until the road was fit for running they proposed to do the best they could with the water communication, and no one could reasonably object to such an arrangement. The hon. gentleman, however, had set himself most determinedly to go to Lake Nepigon and nowhere else. Hon. Mr. TUPPER—Oh, no; that was owing to the misunderstanding. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE Then there is no difference between us, except the disposition to criticise. If was, that he intended to push the road as rapidly as possible, providing the financial condition of the country would permit. He (Mr. Tupper) would decide that at the outset. the finances would not allow the rapid prosecution of the work, he would say don't waste any money in large expenditures, which in his his opinion would be useless, until the road was pushed through. No one could object to using water communication for the purpose of constructing the railway, but if they were not in a position to carry the project through, the expenditure was thrown away. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE asked if the hon. gentleman could not see this? Suppose they were not able, after the coming year, to proceed with the intervenvening portions; to have 120 miles at the west end and 60 at the east would necessarily necessarily facilitate the completion of the other part when they were able. He could not say they would not be able to make arrangements, but he hoped they would. He took credit to himself and colleagues for cheapening the rate of transportation. Last season they carried immigrants from Quebec to Manitoba $10 to $12 cheaper than ever before. He did not blame anyone in this connection. No doubt the hon. gentlemen opposite made the best arrangement they could, only the present Government had made better, and more economical arrangements. Hon. Mr. TUPPER--Did they go over the Duluth road? Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-They did. Hon. Mr. TUPPER-The fares were cheapened in that way then?. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-Not at all. We simply made better arrange ments. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL said he was glad to hear these explanations, as few questions interested the people more than this. If he understood the Hon. Premier the proposition was to have two roads-one by the water stretches and a better road somewhere to the north of Lake Nepigon. Hon. Mr. TUPPER said he was extremely glad to hear the statement of Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said the the Hon. First Minister, with the hon. gentleman had misunderstood exception of one qualification-that him. It would perhaps be better Mr. MITCHELL said if he had understood his hon. friend, after getting the water stretches they might still have to build a line of railway from Lake Superior to Lac de Mille Lacs or Manitoba. Did not his hon. friend propose, when the Pacific Railway was built ultimately, that these water stretches should form part of that line not to discuss the Pacific Railway | lay on the Table the papers promised further, and he would give more infor- in the speech from the Throne, includmation when the proper time arrived. ing the Orders in Council referring to The hon. gentleman again explained the Esquimault Railway difficulty, the the proposed route. despatch of the British Columbia Govornment, and the subsequent petition to the Queen adopted by the Legislature of that Province. After the Speech from the Throne was delivered here, however, these papers, he remarked, had all been published in British Columbia, although they should first have been laid on the Table of this House. In the meantime, the 19th sec. of the Act of 1874 required the Minister of Public Works to place upon the progress made on the works of the Pacific Railway, with the expenditures up to date for the year, and copies of all the contracts concerned. He now laid on the Table a copy of all con of communication? Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE-No! No! Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-Well, then, I accept the statement made by the hon. gentleman, and I will defer any remarks I might have to make until the broader question comes up; but I must confess that I rather misunderstood his explanations. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD----Regarding this subject of the Pacific Railway, I would remind my hon. friend that papers promised in the speech from the Throne have not yet been brought down. Mr. MASSON said it had been stated by different hon. gentlemen that it was the intention of the late Governmentas was the proper course---to keep open the Dawson road, which would have the effect of lesseneffect of lessening the rates upon United States railways; and he would draw the attention of the Administration to the fact that the Hon. Premier last year stated that his policy would be to connect Fort William and Fort Garry, He then announced that the road could not be built within two and one half, or three years; and were they to understand, that while this Dawson route was closed, save for mails, immigrants were to be forced to go through the United States? If this was the case, the American companies would raise their rates and defeat the object kept in view by the previous Government in this connection. The motion being carried. THE PACIFIC RAILWAY. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE, in reply to the right hon. member for Kingston, stated that he would shortly the Table of the House statments of tracts entered into on the Pacific Railway, with a simple memorandum from the Chief Engineer; also a general report such as could be published, conveying some detailed statements of the various surveys and explorations, which had taken place in different parts of the country. The engineers returns for the year would necessarily fill a volume of considerable size, but this was not what was desired. Some of the engineers had just arrived from very reinote distances, but he hoped to have all the possible information submitted before the rising of the House. At present the report would be somewhat incomplete, giving however a bird's eye view of their transactions during the year. He hoped hon. gentlemen opposite would be satisfied with these explanations. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD---These explanations, which the hon. gentleman proposes to give, will I suppose, be accompanied by a somewhat general report from the engineer, furnishing this bird's eye view, of which my hon. friend speaks? Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE--Of course. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD----The verbal statement of my hon. friend, although he speaks with great preci sion, cannot be equal in value to a report committed on paper. On motion of the Hon. Mr. Mackenzie, the House adjourned at Ten minutes after Eleven p. m. HOUSE OF COMMONS. TUESDAY, March 7, 1876. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Three o'clock. BILLS, INTRODUCED. Mr. MACDONALD (Toronto)-To incorporate the British Canadian Investment Company. under the authority of existing laws. He proposed to fill the blank in the 1st section by inserting after the word "district," the title Keewatin, which would be the name of the new territory, signifiying the North Land; also to fill up blanks in the 4th section, by inserting the words "not exceeding ten, and not less than five." Mr. KIRKPATRICK took objection Mr. BOURASSA---To amend the to the 6th clause on the ground that Bankruptcy Act of 1875. Mr. CAMERON (Victoria)----To incorporate the National Loan and Life Insurance Company of Canada. Mr. MCDOUGALL (Elgin)---To amend the Act incorporating the Commercial Travellers' Association of Ca mada. Mr. WHITE (Renfrew)---To amend the Act passed at the last Session relating to the Upper Ottawa Improvement Company. THE NORTH WEST TERRITORIES. On motion of the Hon. Mr. Mackenzie, the House went into Committee, Mr. Mills in the chair, on the Act respecting the North-West Territories. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE stated that in order to meet the views of his hon. friend opposite, he proposed to introduce a preamable as follows :---Whereas it is expedient, pending the settlement of the North-West Territories, to create a separate territory of the eastern portion of the North-West Territories, therefore Her Majesty, &c. With regard to the proposition made by his hon. friend from British Columbia, that the territory north of British Columbia and the 60th parallel should be provided for in this Bill, he would reply that having examined the map carefully he found that this would not be as remote from the seat of Government of British Columbia, as from the seat of Government of the North-West Territories. They proposed in order to prevent any possible temporary inconvenience, to give British Columbia magistrates current jurisdiction in that part of the territory lying north of the Columbia and west of the Mackenzie River, and the 120th parallel. This country would be placed too much power would be given to the Lieutenant Governor in Council----the power of amending or repealing any of the laws passed by the Parliament of Canada. In the 11th section it was declared that certain laws should be applicable to the District-criminal laws for instance, so peculiarly under Federal jurisdiction. The power in question was greater than that conferred upon Local Legislatures. He suggested in consequence that the last part of the 6th clause should be struck out, as a year's delay respecting such legislation could do no harm. Hon. Mr. BLAKE said there was no no doubt a good deal to be said in favour of what the hon. gentleman remarked, but there had been some experience of this kind of legislation before, and there was no reason to suppose from it that there was anything improper in this clause. No ordinance of the North-West Council would have "urgent," and force unless marked even then it would be subject to disallowance. The proposition was simply tory until it was either annexed to to keep the status quo in this terriManitoba or otherwise dealt with so as to be in possession of provincial rights and privileges. The clause, and the two following, were adopted. On clause nine, Mr. MOUSSEAU said this clause seemed to empower the Government of the New Province to repeal clause 11 of the Act of last Session securing to the Northseparate schools West Territories. He wished to know if this was the case. Hon. Mr. BLAKE said the 11th clause of the North-West Territories Act was not yet in force, and would not apply to any of these territories until the Act was proclaimed. It was |