Mr. JONES (Leeds) said he would be glad if some arrangement could be made with the neighbouring country to protect our waters. Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT admitted the great importance of this point, and they had communicated through the British Ambassador with the United States on the subject. He was not, however, prepared to say what chance there was of satisfactory arrangements being consumated. Mr. BERTRAM called attention to the fact that a number of Americans came over here to fish for pleasure, and suggested that a small fee should be exacted from them. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL said the Government applied the regulations in regard to the fisheries in a manner which was unjust to the Province from which he came. He contended that the Government was bound to administer the affairs of the country as not to press unduly on one section. For instance, it was an outrage to pass la vs that were limited in the operation to He thought the New Brunswick. Government had acted in a high-handed manner in regard to the fisheries. The return for which he moved time ago had just come down, and after a hasty glance he could not find any justification for the attempt to deprive the people of the Maritime Provinces of rights which they had enjoyed for nearly a century. Hon. Mr. ROBITAILLE said the Glendon, which had been purchased at St. John for $20,000, was not fit for the service she was bought to perform. The very men that went on board this vessel had condemned her and were afraid to go to sea on her when there was any sea or wind. She had not power enough to face a breeze. When she left St. John for Pictou, a schooner ahead of her. The Government could left a day later and yet got to Pictou have purchased a Scotch built vessel for $25,000 at the time they got the Glendon, and saved money in maintenance and running. Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said the Glendon had cost $30,000 in the first place. Mr. Smith, who examined the vessel, valued her at $25,000, and she was purchased by the Government for $20,000. All possible pains had been taken to see if she was fit for the service. It appeared, however, that she was not, and had to be employed in the lighthouse service. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL said it was an insane purchase. One of the persons who had sold the vessel to the Government informed Government informed him that he would have been glad to part with her at half the price. Mr. DOMVILLE said the vessel was not really worth $5,000, and she could have been bought any day for $10,000 cash. It was well known in St. John that she was unfit for the service, and people would not believe at first that the Government had bought her. Mr. McLEOD said the purchase of the Glendon might have been an error گنر condition. The beds should be treated in the same way as the salmon fisheries had been protected and en of judgment, but she cost only $70 per ton, while the late Government had paid over $100 per ton for two schooners which were now doing duty as light-couraged under the fostering care of ships. The item was carried. On item No. 148, appropriating $16,000 for fish-breeding, fish-ways and oyster beds, Mr. KIRKPATRICK asked how much of this money was spent in Ontario and in the other Provinces of the Dominion? Hon. Mr. CARTWIRGHT said the money was expended on the fish-breeding establishments in the various Provinces. About $4000 would be spent in Ontario and the remainder on the other establishments, which were about six in number. Hon. Mr.MITCHELL said the money spent in the encouragement of fish breeding in Canada was most judiciously expended, and he would have beeu in favour of a larger expenditure in this work. Hon. Mr. ROBITAILLE thought that the money in question was well expended, and asked what was to be done with reference to oyster beds? Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT replied that they would be as far as possible protected. the late Government. The beds should be closed for one year, or for two or three years. Hon. Mr. LAIRD stated that the Local Government of Prince Edward Island had legislated to secure the protection of its oyster beds. The item was passed. Items 141, 142, 143, and 144, providing respectively for the vote of $2,400 to the Quebec Observatory; $4,800 to the Toronto Observatory; $500 to the Kingston Observatory; $500 to the Montreal Observatory, and $850 to the New Brunswick Observatory were passed with little discussion. Mr. McDONALD (Cape Breton) stated that the service performed at Sydney was not worth the salary paid. Mr. PLUMB thought arrangements ing done cheaper by companies on might be made to have the telegraph contract. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL was of opinion that the expenditure could be largely increased with propriety, and what was being done was judicious. very On item No. 148, appropriating $23,000 for the Marine and Emigrant Hospital, Quebec, Hon. Mr. ROBITAILLE read from a report a statement to the effect that our oyster beds were being completely exhausted, accompanied by the warning that unless they were closed against dredging for three years it would be any change had taken place in the ad too late to preserve seed. He lamented the circumstance that we continued to import vast quantities of oysters from the United States at prices which made this favourite shell-fish an expensive luxury, while our native sources of production, from which an abundant and cheap supply could be obtained, were being abandoned to destruction. Hon. gentlemen from Prince Edward Island might not think it worth while to talk about protection in this connection, but before five years had passed they would change their opinions. Our oysters were at present greatly reduced in size, compared with their size five years ago, and if the system were not changed before five years more had elapsed they would be in a far worse Hon. Mr. MITCHELL asked whether ministration of the affairs of this institution? Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said the Minister of Marine and Fisheries had taken steps to have the hospital placed on a proper footing as a Dominion institution. The item was carred. On item No. 158, appropriating $6,000 to meet expenses in connection with the inspection of Insurance Companies, Hon. Mr. MITCHELL asked what was the policy of the Government in relation to Marine Insurance Companies? He asked this question because he understood that the policy of the Administration would be such as to drive foreign companies out of the market. They had not even now nearly sufficient Marine Insurance Companies to do the business. Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said they did not desire to descriminate against any companies. The sole object was to provide against the establishment of irresponsible companies, and they chiefly devoted their attention to fire and life companies. It was only to a moderate degree that they interfered with marine companies at all. Hon. Mr. MITCHELL called atten tion to the fact that the Clinton Insur ance Campany had taken people's money, and in one instance where a fire occurred had only paid one-third of the claim and asked time for the balance. Finding they were acting illegally they refused to pay the rest of the claim. He wished to know if there was any recourse against them? Hon. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said the company had been acting illegally and were subject to a heavy penalty under the law. The item passed, and the Committee rose and reported progress. The House adjourned at Fifteen minutes past One, a. m. HOUSE OF COMMONS. FRIDAY, March 24, 1876. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Three o'clock. RETIRING ALLOWANCES OF JUDGES. :— The House wen into Committee of the Whole (Mr. Mills in the Chair) to consider the following Resolution: That it is expedient to extend the provisions of the third section of the Act 34 Victoria, Chapter 33, to the Chief Justice and Justices of the Court of Error and Appeal for the Province of Ontario, so that they shall under like circumstances be entitled to the same proportion of their salaries as retiring allowances, as the Judges mentioned in the said section, payable in like man ner out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of Canada. The resolution was reported and concurred in. Hon. Mr. BLAKE introduced a Bill founded on the resolution. SUPPLY. The House went into Committee of Supply, Mr. Young in the Chair. On the item $289,096 for Indians, Mr. COSTIGAN complained that the Indian Commissioner in New Bunswick resided a hundred miles from the reserve, and a considerable portion of the appropriation every year was eaten up in travelling expenses. Now, if a local man were appointed, it would save a considerable amount of the Indians' money. The Indians and white people had no confidence in the present Commissioner, and were desirous of having a change. He hoped the Minister of the Interior would comply with their wishes. Hon. Mr LAIRD replied that this state of things existed prior to his entrance on his present office. Two agents had been appointed some years ago in New Brunswick, at salaries of $400 each, and it was true that this was more than was given to the agents in Nova Scotia, but it was to be remembered that the latter were seven or eight in number, and consequently the former had larger areas under their supervision. No doubt it was competent for the Government to dismiss officials or reduce their salaries, but it was a very unpleasant duty to perform. and he could not see his way to meeting the wishes of the hon. member. He had intended to visit the locality last year, but could not go; -he hoped to be able to do so this year, however, and he would investigate the matter and see what could be done to improve the existing condition of affairs. Mr. WRIGHT (Pontiac) thought that the Minister lost sight of the fact that the payment of these salaries came out of the Indians' funds, and consequently he considered that it would be better to incommode one man than a large number of persons whose interests were well worthy of consideration. Hon. Mr. TUPPER asked how many Indians there were in Priuce Edward Island? Hon. Mr. LAIRD-About 303. Mr. McLEOD asked how many there were in Nova Scotia ? Hon. Mr. LAIRD--About 1,500. Hon. Mr. TUPPER asked why the item for agriculture implements for Indians in Manitoba and the NorthWest had been reduced? was an which step in the end would effect an economy as to the provisions distributed yearly. Mr. PLUMB hoped that the details would be brought down. Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN said he no ticed in the report of the Minister of the Interior that school books, medical attendance, garden seeds, &c., were included under the head "salaries and office expenses." He thought these items should be voted separately. Hon. Mr. LAIRD said a number of the Indians had already been supplied in accordance with the terms of the treaties. Once they were supplied there end of the necessity for making such an appropriation. Mr. SCHULTZ thought that this required some explanation; they were asked to vote $10,000 to supply provis-sible to put down these small items ions for Indians assembled to receive annuities under the above mentioned treaties, referring to treaties Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 5. Hon. Mr. LAIRD replied that it did not appear on the face of the estimates for this reason: A vote had been made yearly for this purpose. The treaties were made away from the posts and a conference sometimes lasted a week. It was absolutely necessary to provide supplies for them during the time the meeting lasted. Mr. SCHULTZ said it was a great grievance with the Indians that the time of receiving payments was so uncertain. He suggested there should be definite times and places for payments. Sometimes the Indians assembled and had to wait for weeks before the Commissioners paid them. Hon. Mr. LAIRD stated that they were endeavouring to do so; hon. members would understand that in a new country and under the circumstances in which they were placed, it was impossible to be exact to the day. They hoped in the future to be able to keep their appointments with the Indians with greater exactness. Mr. PLUMB asked why there was such a large appropriation for salaries and office expenses in the Manitoba superintendency? He noticed it was $18,660 this year, an increase of $1,910 over the appropriations of last year. Hon. Mr. LAIRD explained that the increase was due to the proposed appointment of a Superintendent for the North-West Territory, and of local agents both there and in Manitoba, Hon. Mr. LAIRD said it was impos They separately in the Estimates. varied from year to year, and it was found necessary to ask for a bulk sum to be expended as advantageously as possible for the Indians. When everything was organized in the North-West as it was in Ontario, the Government could state in the Estimates what sums were required for special purposes now included under this one heading. In their report to the Finance Department they gave the number of schools, but these particulars were not furnished in the Estimates. They hoped hereafter to give the items in greater detail. Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN said the salaries and office expenses were known definitely and could be voted separately. So could the larger items now included under that heading, and the House would then know what they were voting. Hon. Mr. LAIRD said it was only a few months since this organization was commenced, and until it was completed nothing definite could be known or stated in the estimates. This was the first year that these items appeared. Mr. PLUMB remarked that the estimate in this relation last year almost reached the same figure; therefore he thought that some organization had been effected. Hon. Mr. LAIRD, regarding the appropriation of $1,500 to supply ammu nition and twine to Indians under treaty No. 4, explained that they happened to be twice as many in number as they had anticipated; therefore the amount had been increased from $750 to the figures mentioned. ! Mr. SCHULTZ, concerning the appropriation of $80,000 to defray probable expenses in connection with new treaties, regretted that the expense. incurred in connection with the negotiation of past treaties had been much greater than they should have been. Had supplies been obtained through tender, a great deal of money could have been easily saved; and he hoped that a change would be made in the policy which had been pursued, ensuring an important saving for the country. Hon. Mr. LAIRD thought that they had taken the greatest precautions in this relation during the past year. Tenders had been invited, and on one occasion they had secured flour at the rate of $2.50 per hundred lbs. Extreme care had been exercised, and the accounts had been audited at Ottawa before they were paid. Mr. SCHULTZ claimed the right to call attention to such matters in the public interest. Tenders might have been asked; but he considered it strange that he, living where they were said to have been published, had not observed it, and it was there the general impression that it had rot been done. The charges for the transporta tion of the flour had been excessive, and the person who had done this had then turned round and sold oxen to existed all along owing to this fact. He trusted that in the future, before the Commissioners left the ground, the question of the reserves would be definitely arranged. This course would avoid much of the trouble which from his place in the House he predicted would occur if the system was not changed. Hon. Mr. LAIRD replied that in Manitoba, where there were a good many settlers, they had been more particular touching the selection of reserves. Regarding Treaty No. 4, the Indians were consulted with and the location of the reserves was chosen, but it proved that only one-half of the bands were prepared to select their reserves at all. Most of them were plain hunters who did not wish to retire on the lands; they had found it better to treat with each man separately in this relation, as they had a perfect right to do. If the first treaties had not mentioned where the reserves were to be, they would have found it much easier to deal with this matter-as there would have been more freedom on the part of the Department and also on the part of the Indians. 1 Mr. RYAN asked if the Government were making any arrangements to remove the band of Sioux at the Portage to their reserve? They were continuthe Government at a price much high-ally committing depredations, and their high-presence was a nuisance and likely to er than they could be purchased in Winnipeg. A radical defect existed in prove dangerous. Six of them had shot one of their comrades and escaped regard to the negotiation of those punishment. treaties. It was easy enough to collect a body of Indians, and if there were plenty of provisions, and if the interpreters and half-breeds were on the side of the Government, it was easy to induce them to make almost any treaty. They were unacquainted with the value of money, and it rested with the Government simply to say whether it would deal fairly with them or not. The point he wished to make was this: in scarcely any of these treaties had it been definitely settled where the reserves were to be. This was due to the hurry shown in making them, and the desire of those engaged in the matter to get through a troublesome business as soon as possible. What had been the result relative to the first treaty ? Trouble had Hon. Mr. LAIRD said there were ample reserves at the forks of the Little Saskatchewan, and the Government had endeavoured to pursuade and induce them to move there. Some did move but the greater number of them would not go. The Government did not think it wise to use compulsory measures, but the matter was under consideration. Mr. SCHULTZ said there was no re-vote of the appropriation made last year for the removal of those Indians. He believed the present unsatisfactory condition of affairs was due to the failure of the Government to furnish a reserve for the band. They were of fered a reserve on the coast of Lake Manitoba, with which they were satis |