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preferve, one common level. Difmiffing this ob jection, therefore, as trifling and captious, let us proceed to the fecond, which we fhall find more deferving of our attention, viz. That this plan does not propofe any converfion of stock. "This "plan," fays his Lordfhip," is fo contrived, "that an enormous and unneceffary expence will "be incurred by the public, in the redemption "of the prefent three per cents. which alone form a capital of one hundred and eighty-fix "millions."

Lord Stanhope here profeffedly grounds his reasonings upon the probability that the three per cents. will not be redeemed at an average lower than ninety. This, as a matter of probable conjecture, and as a fufficient bafis of argument, where certainty is unattainable, may, I think, be fairly admitted; and, in this cafe, the advantage of a general converfion of the three per cents. into four per cents. is manifeft. If a hundred millions of three per cents. redeemable at ninety, could be converted into feventy-five millions of four per cents. redeemable at par, it is evident, that the fum of fifteen millions would be faved to the public. This plan of converfion was first propofed by Dr. Price, to the prefent Marquis of Lanfdowne, when Earl of Shelburne, and at the head of the Treafury. It obtained the approbation of that Nobleman, who meant, had he continued in office, to have combined it with the plan formed for raifing the loan for the fervice of the

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year 1783. It is, however, liable to a very ferious objection, viz. that the Stockholders will require fo large a premium to induce them to convert, that the fum neceffary to accomplish the converfion, might be applied with more effect to the purpose of immediate redemption. That this affertion, however, cannot rest on any abfolute grounds of certainty, is evident; becaufe, in order to ascertain the advantage refulting from fuch converfion, the average rate of redemption muft be previously known. From a general inspection of the prefent transfer prices, it appears, that the fum of two millions five hundred thousand pounds, would be neceffary to effect a converfion of one hundred millions of three per cents. into feventyfive millions of four per cents. Here then arifes the question, whether it would be most beneficial to the public, to employ this fum in the redemption of stock, or in the converfion of it. An annual fund of one million, employed in the redemption of feventy-five millions of four per cents. would liquidate the whole Debt in thirty-fix years; but the fame annual fund, aided by the fum of two millions and an half, applied to the immediate purpose of redemption, in preference to converfion, in the space of thirty-fix years would discharge only eighty-eight millions of three per cents. allowing ninety to be the average rate of redemption. A lofs of twelve millions,. there. fore, would, at the end of that period, be fuftained by the public, in confequence of applying the fum

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of two millions and an half to the purpose of redemption, rather than of converfion. The truth, however, is, that it is not, in the remotest degree, probable the grofs fum of two millions five hundred thousand pounds will ever be applied either in the one way or the other. But a practicable plan, doubtless, might be formed, by which a gradual progrefs might be made in the procefs of converfion; and as the principal caufe of the comparative depreciation of the four per cents. is the apprehension of a reduction of intereft, or a redemption at par, the value of the new four per cents. might be confiderably raised, and confequently the expence attending the converfion confiderably leffened, by enacting, that the new capital fhould neither be redeemable, nor the intereft reducible, till the old four per cents. were previously and entirely liquidated. Lord Stanhope, indeed, propofes a plan, according to which a general converfion of ftock would, as he pretends, take place, without fubjecting the public to any extra expence. If fo, the public are certainly under very great obligation to the noble Lord; but I apprehend that few words will fuffice to expose the futility of his Lordship's pompous project. The inducement which Lord Stanhope holds out to the Proprietor of Stock, in lieu of a premium, to engage him to convert, is the right of priority of redemption, and the finking fund is to be inviolably applied to the purpose of redeeming the new four per cents. at par, according to the

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order of time in which the converfion fhall have been made. It is moft certain, therefore, that as long as the three per cents. remain below seventyfive, the Stockholders, who have intereft fufficient to procure early fubfcriptions, would need neither arguments nor menaces, lavish as his Lordship is of both, to induce them to convert. But it is, at the fame time, just as certain, that a loss would be fuftained by the public, exactly equivalent to the difference between the actual transfer price of the stock fo converted, and the fum at which it is to be redeemed. But, if the three per cents. fhould rife above feventy-five, not all the eloquence of Demofthenes, or Cicero, would prevail upon a fingle Stockholder, obftinate and infenfible as they are, to convert his three per cents. into four per cents. unlefs a bonus was fecured to him. equal, at leaft, to the difference between the market price and the price of redemption. A bonus the noble Lord himself allows to be, in thefe circumstances, indispensably neceffary; and, as priority of redemption is the grand allurement held out by this plan, the bonus muft of course correspond, or keep pace, with the advance of the original ftock. If ninety, therefore, be, as his Lordship fuppofes, the average rate of redemption of the original ftock, it follows, that a bonus of fifteen millions will be neceffary, in order to procure a converfion of one hundred millions of three per cents. into feventy-five millions of four per cents. or, in other words, the converfion would

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be merely nominal, and the fame fum would operate exactly in the fame manner, if applied to the redemption of the three per cents. under their original denomination. His Lordship's project is, therefore, in part, abfurd and extravagant, and, in part, nugatory and ridiculous.

The third objection urged by Lord Stanhope, against the plan eftablished by Mr. Pitt, is, that no effectual means are provided to prevent an alienation of the fund from the purpofe of redemption. Now I acknowledge, and I have already mentioned it as one of the advantages attending Mr. Pitt's plan, that the most effectual means are, in my apprehenfion, provided, which human wisdom can devise, to prevent any fuch alienation. If Lord Stanhope can point out any means more effectual, the public would certainly deem themfelves ftill more indebted to him, than even for his incomparable scheme for the converfion of ftock, free of all expence. The means actually proposed by his Lordship, are, however, totally inadequate to the purpose. It must be confeffed, indeed, that fo far as his Lordship's plan participates of the nature of a contract, it would not be confidered by Parliament as alterable, but with the concurrence of all the parties concerned; and, it is evident, that fo long as the three per cents. fhould continue below feventy-five, the confent of thofe Proprietors of the new four per cents. who were in expectation of a speedy redemption, could not be obtained. If any ferious intention of alienation,

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