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.II. Madras.

No. 46.

(No. 1325.)

It is observed that the principle discussed in the above letter from the Director of Public Instruction, viz., as to the removal of all restrictions as to race, in regard to appointments in the subordinate branches of the medical service, has already come under consideration in the Military Department; ordered, that the above letter be referred to that department for consideration, and in view to the opinion of his Excellency the Commander in Chief being requested on the changes recommended by the Director of Public Instruction.

Fort St. George,

4 November 1856.

No. 38.

EXTRACT Fort St. George Public Diary to Consultation of 23 December 1856.

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EXTRACT from the Minutes of Consultation in the Military Department, dated 13 December 1856.

Read the following:

Extract Mins. Cons. Public Department.

Referring to the Military Department a letter from the Director of Public Instruction on the subject of removing all restrictions as to race in regard to appointments in the subordinate branches of the medical service, for consideration, and in view to the Commander in Chief's opinion being requested on the project.

No. 39.

HERE enter 4th November 1856, No. 1325.

THE Governor in Council defers passing orders on the subject of the foregoing papers, pending decision of the Government of India upon the general measures which have been proposed for the improvement of the subordinate medical department.

(No. 1503.)

Ordered to be communicated to the Director of Public Instruction, in reference to his letter of the 23d August last, No. 697.

Fort St. George,

20 December 1856.

Cons. 11th August

18.

PAPERS referred to in Madras Public Despatch (Educational),
dated 6 October 1858, No. 5, paras. 58, 59.

EXTRACT Public Letter from Fort St. George, dated 24 December, No. 33 of 1857.

Para. 9. We have approved the scheme of examination drawn up by the faculty 1857, Nos. 69 and of civil engineering, and the bye-laws for the government of the university passed

70.

by the senate, copy of which is now forwarded.

II. Madras.

FORT ST. GEORGE Public Consultation of 11th August 1857. READ the following Letter from the Registrar of the University of Madras to the Acting Chief Secretary to Government, Fort St. George, dated 3d August 1857, No. 17.

Sir,

I HAVE the honour to transmit, for the approval of the Governor in Council of Fort St. George, a copy of the report and scheme of examination drawn up by the Faculty of Civil Engineering connected with the University of Madras, and also a paper containing the bye-laws for the government of the University; these documents have both been approved by the senate.

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No. 69.

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1. THE members of the Faculty of Civil Engineering appointed at a meeting of the senate on the 7th April, assembled on the 14th May, and again by adjournment on the 10th and 15th June, for the purpose of considering and reporting upon the conditions to be observed in granting degrees in this faculty in the University of Madras.

2. They have had before them, and have carefully studied the opinions which have been given by several of the authorities in this country to whom the subject had been referred, as well as the resolutions to which, on a consideration of those opinions, the University committee at Calcutta had arrived, and which had received the full concurrence of the Governor General of India in Council.

3. The rules under which it is proposed by the Calcutta University that degrees in Civil Engineering shall be conferred, may be briefly stated thus:—

1st. That the student shall pass an entrance examination in common with other members of the University before becoming a member, and not before he is 16 years of age.

2d. That he shall attain to the ordinary degree of B.A., to be conferred not until he has been four years connected with the University.

3d. That after having attained the degree of B. A., he shall pass four years in the study and practice of his profession, two of the years being passed in actual professional practice.

4th. That there shall be an examination for honours held shortly after the preceding examination.

5th. That there shall be but one degree in civil engineering, that of " Master."

4. The committee having carefully considered these conditions, and the various arguments upon which they have been established, are unanimously of opinion that they are unsuited to the social condition and requirements of this part of India; they believe that if the above rules are established and insisted upon (and they were better not established than not maintained when established), no candidates for this degree will make their appearance, and that the object aimed at, viz., the creation of an independent profession in this country will be defeated.

5. They feel it incumbent on them to give their reasons at length.

6. They consider, first, that they have not to legislate for the improvement or extension of a profession, but to create the profession itself in India; that among the difficulties to be expected in effecting this object are the poverty of the people, and the absence of any general demand, such as is calculated to excite competition, and to support professional independence. 7. They observe, that at their first meeting, the Calcutta sub-committee had regard to the existing Government colleges and the Government department of Public Works, and suggested that a college diploma (alluding to those colleges), would be held a sufficient evidence of ordinary attainment, and distinctly kept in view these considerations in framing, subsequently, the rules regarding degrees in that University; one of the main objections to those rules entertained by this committee, viz., the late period of life at which they admit of a young man entering his profession, being thus discerned and got rid of by a reference to a diploma at a Government college. Remembering that the object is the creation of an independent profession, between which and society at large there shall be a certain healthy action and re-action, the committee consider that all reference to, still more any dependence upon Government or its institutions should be carefully avoided; they believe that the greater the influence the Government or the Government departments have upon the members of the University, the less the hope of creating by its means an independent profession of any kind. The question should be, not what will be a sufficient degree to gain admittance into the department of Public Works, but what will place a young man on a just level in the eyes of society, and secure him a position of independence of any particular authority or body of men.

II.

Madras.

8. They have considered the marked difference in the nature and object of the degrees in arts and those in science.

9. Candidates for the former have no special object in view beyond receiving the st mp of well-educated members of society. In the latter it is different, and the degrees are sought with the express view of making a beginning in a profession looked to as a means of living and of rising in life.

10. It is obviously therefore of the highest importance that a young man should have a professional degree, as evidence of his having been professionally prepared, at his entrance into professional life. The first degree in civil engineering proposed in the Calcutta University is that of "Master" at the age of 24; the Madras faculty are of opinion that this is too late for a first degree, though sufficiently early for the degree which stamps a man an efficient practitioner.

11. They have also considered, among the difficulties which the members of the new profession here will have to encounter, competition with the civil engineers of Europe.

12. If we have to look, as heretofore, to Government employment alone for men in this profession, they believe, that though every effort might be made to secure the education and fitness of the several members of the department of Public Works, and much success might attend those efforts, no profession, strictly speaking, could exist. It appears, however, to be generally desired and expected, that a demand for men of this class will, in this country as in Europe, come from capitalists, individuals or corporate bodies, engaged in works of various kinds and degrees of importance.

13. It seems to be expected also that these capitalists will come from England, and that the men interested in these works and engaged chiefly in their promotion will be not men in or belonging to India, but men in England, among whom there will be a strong tendency to employ engineers of their own school.

14. There cannot be a question that a young man educated and distinguished in the manner proposed in the Calcutta scheme, would, at the age of 24, belong, in point of intellectual attainments, to a far higher class than those now commonly found among the junior members of the profession at home, but this is unfortunately not the whole question. There is another point to be considered: are young men in this country likely to be found ready and willing to start in professional competition with those in England under sach conditions? while the one in India is still waiting for his B. A. degree, the other in England has got a footing in his profession, working under the guidance and protection of some experienced member of the profession; and before the one here has completed his education, the other has attained, not only a footing, but probably something of a reputation as a professional man.

15. The committee fully concur in the views so clearly expressed in the sixth and seventh paras. of Lord Elphinstone's Minute of the 9th of November 1855; they believe it to be an object of the highest importance to elevate as much as possible the standard of principle and character among the professional graduates; but with the Bengal sub-committee on law, they think that the Bombay Government is disposed to push the principle too far. Moreover if there be, as the committee believe, some disadvantage, on the one hand, in demanding so much of time and study for a student before giving him any professional degree, they do not see clearly, on the other hand, what there is in the required studies between the ages of 16 and 24 to ensure this elevation of principle and character.

16. They believe that the correct principle for men looking to such a profession as that of civil engineer, would be to divide their education into three periods :

1st. Their preparatory training as members of society;

2d. Their preliminary training fitting them to enter on the duties of their profession.

3d. Their subsequent training, including the early professional practice, qualifying them for the title of Master in the profession, trustworthy practitioners.

17. They think that the first, the most important period of all, may be fairly enough closed at 16. It is at this time, they believe, that the broad basis of a general education should be laid, upon which alone a sound professional superstructure can be raised; and if the seeds of a high standard of principle and character be not sown then, there is much reason to fear they will not be sown at all, or if sown, will not germinate. As the training in this period is the general foundation of the man's education, whatever special direction it is to take, so the education in the second period should form the basis of his professional training, being chiefly confined to a study of the principles on which its practice must be

based.

18. The third period should add actual practice, in the application of the preliminary knowledge already attained, to a further advance in theoretical studies.

19. The committee observe, that the principle for which they contend, viz., that of giving the student an earlier entrance into his profession, has been recognised in the rules regarding degrees in medicine. In that faculty the degree of licentiate is to be conferred without the previous degree of B. A. being required. They think a similar system should be followed in civil engineering, and they propose therefore the following rules :

There shall be two degrees in civil engineering in this University, viz., a graduate as G. C. E., and a master as M. C. E.

The examination for the degree of G. C .E. shall be held in Madras once a year, and shall

commence on the

Examination

Examination for the Graduate in Civil Engineering.

II.

Every candidate for the degree of G. C. E. must have completed three years from the time of passing his entrance examination, and must produce from the authorities of one or more of the schools or colleges affiliated to the University, a certificate that he has prosecuted his studies during that period in one or more of such institutions.

On similar conditions the examination shall be open to students who have passed the entrance examination in any other Indian University, and have prosecuted a regular course of study in one or more institutions affiliated to any of the universities of India.

Applications must be made and certificates forwarded to the registrar at least 30 days before the date fixed for the commencement of the examination.

The fee for the degree of G. C. E. shall be 25 rupees.

If a candidate fail to pass, he may be admitted to any one or more subsequent examinations on payment of a like fee.

The examination shall be conducted partly by means of written or printed papers, and partly vivâ voce; and it should be practical as concerns drawing and surveying.

Candidates for the degree of G. C. E. shall be examined in

I. Languages.

II. History.

III. Mathematics.

IV. Natural Philosophy.

V. Chemistry.

VI. Elementary Astronomy.
VII. Drawing and Surveying.
VIII. Rudimentary Architecture.
IX. Constructive Engineering.
X. Mechanical Engineering.

1. LANGUAGES..

Any of the following languages, of which English must be one, one vernacular being essential:

Madras.

English.

French.

Telugu.
Tamil.

Canarese.
Malayalum.

Hindustani.

Candidates shall be examined in each of the languages selected by them both in prose and poetry, the subject being named by the senate two years previous to the examination from any approved classical or standard works or authors, such as the following:

English.

The same as those already entered for the arts examination. Vide page 8, University Papers.

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The first six books of Euclid, and the eleventh book to Proposition XXI., with deductions. Conic sections.

Plane Trigonometry,

As far as the solution of all cases of plane triangles.

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The elements of Chemistry, as laid down in Fowne's or other similar work.

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Machines employed for transporting and raising materials, as crabs, cranes, dredging machines.

Machines employed in engineering works, as pile-driving, &c.

Machines for working up materials, as lathes, boring machines, &c.

Implements and tools for excavation.

Steam-engines, stationary and locomotive.

The faculty recommend that the examiners be instructed to assign marks to the subjects above laid down, according to the following scale, such additions being made to the subjects as the senate may from time to time consider advisable :

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The maximum number of marks being 1,100, the minimum amount qualifying for the degree shall be 370; of which the minimum of each of the following studies shall be considered essential, viz. :

Languages.
History.

Mathematics.

Natural philosophy, and either
Constructive engineering, or
Mechanical engineering.

No number below the minimum shall in any case be allowed to count.

For the first three years, after the establishment of the university, candidates shall be admitted to the examination for the degree of G. C. E. who shall have at any time previously passed the entrance examination, and have attained the age of 19.

A limited

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