or so contemptible in legislation as to have | ferred the Amendment to the Clause as it an object which they were earnestly de- now stood, for the Commissioners had the sirous to obtain, and yet to shrink from power of making out-door relief compulthe means, where those means would be sory. But his noble Friend the Secretary morally justified, which alone would ensure for the Colonies seemed to think that the its attainment. If their object was to re- power of the Commissioners would be but lieve the poor, let them look all the diffi- rarely exercised, and that, in fact, there culties fairly in the face, and take all the would be no occasion for it, because they means that might be necessary to secure had been comparatively so under the Poor their object. It might be that this Amend- Law which the Legislature first established ment involved a principle opposed to the in Ireland; but he would call the attention system of self-government; but they must of the House to the stupendous fact, that remember that Ireland was not England, in the South Dublin union, where the numand if they legislated for Ireland on data ber of paupers receiving relief under the supplied by this country, they would only first Poor Law did not exceed, on an averincrease the dangers and the calamities of age, 2,000, yet, under the temporary systhat unhappy country. tem of out-door relief lately established, the number of applicants had increased to 40,000. Under these circumstances, it would be necessary to have a man of firmness for a relieving officer, and he preferred the Amendment to the Clause as it stood.

The MARQUESS of CLANRICARDE said, Government had looked the difficulties and the dangers of this measure fairly in the face, and they had not shrunk from proposing this measure as a means of relieving the poor, though well aware that it was to a certain extent a perilous measure. They had adopted it upon this principlethat if it were determined to relieve Ireland by means of the resources of Ireland, it must be done by the co-operation of the upper classes of Ireland; and it must be obvious to the noble Earl that Her Majesty's Government were determined to carry out this Bill in the spirit in which it had been proposed, namely, that of effectually relieving the necessities of the people of that country. The noble Earl who had just sat down had drawn a formidable picture of the duties and dangers of a relieving officer, and if these ideas prevailed generally, he did not wonder that noble Lords were alarmed at the probable expense of the rates; but his idea was, that the duties of the relieving officer would be light, particularly when he remembered that even at the present period of existing distress the workhouses were not filled. It might be satisfactory to noble Lords to know, that even by the provisions of the Bill as it now stood, no appointment of a relieving officer could be finally made without having received the approbation of the Commissioners; but the Amendment now proposed would take away the responsibility from those who now had the appointment, namely, the guardians, and would, in fact, render the Bill a perfect nullity.

The MARQUESS of WESTMEATH, in a few words, supported the Amendment.

LORD MONTEAGLE said, the powers entrusted to the Commissioners should only be exercised in extreme cases. He pre

The EARL of HARDWICKE supported the Amendment. He thought the powers vested in the boards of guardians by the clause of a nature rather calculated to injure than to serve the constitution of these boards. The relieving officers should be men not liable to be influenced by popular excitement. The Catholic priesthood had great influence over the guardians; and the relieving officers would, if their nomination was left with the boards of guardians, be, in many instances, the nominees of the Roman Catholic priests. Again, if the relieving officers were men selected in the neighbourhood in which they were to act, the ill-disposed there would seek, by threatening notices and other species of intimidation, to frighten them into their views; and, upon the whole, thinking this power would detract from the utility of the boards of guardians, he would vote against the clause in its present shape.

The EARL of WICKLOW said, that if the Amendment were adopted, and the appointment placed in the hands of the Commissioners, they would probably, in making the appointment in any union, apply to the chairman of the board of guardians, or to the gentlemen constituting the board. In this case, the appointment would really be with the board, though indirectly; and he thought it better to give the board the appointment directly, and thereby fix them. with the responsibility of making a proper choice. He, therefore, trusted that the suggestion of the noble Marquess (the Marquess of Lansdowne) would be adopted, and that the Committee would not divide.

part of any Government to place arms in the hands of a starving people? Or would a people starve with arms in their hands? The people of Ireland were now becoming an armed population. A private letter which he had received from Queen's County, said

specting arms before the House, I beg to take the "As I see you intend to bring the matter reliberty of stating, that the consequences will be most disastrous if the unlicensed sale of them be allowed any longer; and some means must be taken to prevent the assassin from using those already purchased by the peasantry. A most atrocious murder, I may say (as the victim is without hopes), was committed near Portarling

leen, had dined with a neighbouring gentleman when a short distance from the house, going over (who lives only two fields from Mr. Wilson), and

a stile, a shot was fired at him, and three small bullets entered his breast, and were subsequently cut out behind the shoulder. Mr. Wilson is not a landlord or agent, but merely wished to prevent a path being made through his yard. On Thursday last a large quantity of arms was auctioned under the county inspector's lodgings, Tullamore, and every fellow is provided with some Birmingham manufacture. I myself saw a tall lad point

out a long fusil to his comrade and say, 'There's

339

dence, it being added, that had there been double the quantity it could have been easily disposed of. Another case that had been mentioned was that of a man who, having come to pay his rent, and having had 21. restored to him to purchase provisions with for his family, his observation was, that he could buy a very good gun with it. No notice had been taken by the Government of his statements; and he was anxious not to be supposed to have circulated without cause statements likely to create so much alarm. The matter had, however, since assumed so serious a shape, that he felt himself, in his own defence, called on to bring before that House sub-ton on Sunday night. John Wilson, Esq., of Kilstantial proof that he was justified in the observations he had made. Before doing so, however, he desired to make one or two references to a measure which passed that House in 1843, called the Arms Bill. By that Act it was provided that no arms should be imported into Ireland, except under the license of the Lord Lieutenant, under a penalty of 501., and a like penalty was imposed on the manufacture of arms within the country. By another clause it was not only required that the arms should be registered, but also that they should be branded. That Bill was passed in consequence of most serious representations to the Government, and it was founded on a body of the most conclusive evidence as to its necessity. The letters of Colonel Macgregor, and the reports of the constabulary in Ireland, had induced the Government at the time to call on the House to agree to the Bill. The measure, however, met with very great opposition. There was scarcely any Bill on record that had met with more. No less than seven Members of that House declared their determination to oppose it at every stage. Some said they would oppose it clause by clause; and one Member said, he would oppose it even word by word. At every stage of the Bill this opposition was continued. The Bill was introduced early in the Session; it was not read a third time till the 9th of August, and it did not receive the Royal Assent till the 22nd, two days only before Parliament was prorogued. Thus it took from near the commencement of the Session to the very close to pass that Bill into a law. If the right hon. Gentleman (Sir R. Peel), in the face of the greatest opposition that perhaps a Bill ever received, felt it incumbent upon him to pass this measure, was not such a measure ten times more necessary at present? Was it wisdom on the

a receipt for the hanging gale.'
The county of Tipperary was one in which
the greatest distress existed, and yet arms
were sold to a greater extent than in any
county in Ireland. The head constable of
Clonmel, in a report submitted to the
county inspector, said-

"I have to report that the undernamed persons
have recently imported a large supply of guns,
blunderbusses, and pistols, swords, and bayonets,
which they are now disposing of to the public in
this town at prices varying from 2s. 6d. to 30s.
Four of those dealers sell by public auction in the
streets, on fair-days and market-days; and it ap-
pears that the manufacturers of arms in Birming-
ham are not able to meet the demands made on
them by purchasers from this country; in conse-
quence of which, most of the arms now offered for
sale have been procured from the different pawn-
offices in London, and are of a second-hand de-
scription. The persons who usually purchase
from the vendors are generally the lowest class
of country people and servant boys; and persons
labouring on the public works have been known
to buy pistols from their weekly earnings."
The Rev. Robert Carey, who described
himself as a "consistent adherent of Whig-
gism," wrote as follows from his glebe in
Clonmel, in February last :—

"It is quite customary here, of late, to see several fellows with their guns behind a ditch on the roadside, and you cannot guess whether they intend to shoot you or not, until perhaps you feel the effects of their lead. These lads are, you know, legally armed under such circumstances. The police are of little use in the country, except

|

to escort prisoners. The indiscriminate sale of since I have been connected with the administrafirearms which has been permitted for so many tion of the law-what a remarkable contrast it premonths has filled with alarm every individual (no sents to any calendar you could look at in Engmatter what his politics) with whom I have con- land. All the serious offences upon the face of versed. Could the magistracy of Ireland (parti- | this calendar-as upon most of the calendars in cularly that branch who are necessarily in more Ireland are connected with the use of fireimmediate communication with Government) be arms, either wielded by large bodies of men or induced to make a combined awakening repre- by an individual in the perpetration of the very sentation to our rulers of the evils which, sooner serious offences which are most calculated to or later, humanly speaking, must result from the disturb the peace of society-to interfere with facilities afforded to the lowest and most aban- the enjoyment of property; in short, every of doned of society to arm themselves, such a repre- fence calculated to break the bonds of civisentation would not be disregarded by the Govern- lized society is committed through the instrument. The magistracy cannot but be alive to mentality of firearms. There must be a great the dangers of our present position; and I am laxity and defect in the law upon this subconvinced they are far too independent and high-ject. There is no doubt an excuse which is very minded (when duty demands that they speak out) plausible, and a very inviting one, that is-the to be deterred from remonstrance by any appre-privilege to use and possess firearms; but, if we hension of giving utterance to truth, unpalatable in any quarter, however high; that, in short, they are not composed of that plastic material that can accommodate its vision to the optics of the Minister of the day."

In The Times newspaper of the 13th of April he found an extract from an Irish newspaper, describing the alarm felt in King's County from the extensive purchases of arms made by the peasantry. Almost all the Judges at the last assizes addressed the grand juries on this subject. Mr. Justice Jackson, for many years a Member of that House, charged the grand jury as follows on opening the commission at Clonmel :

find from experience that this privilege is abused,
so as to interfere with the general good of the com-
munity, it is right that the law should be very
stringent in its provisions with reference to the
possession of firearms, which would conduce ma-
terially to the furtherance of civilization in the
country, to the security of life, and the perfect
enjoyment of property."
Mr. Baron Richards said at Ennis, county
of Clare-

"I am sorry to observe that there are a great
many in custody charged with taking firearms.
This, undoubtedly, is an offence of a very serious
nature and bad character; but, whether crimes of
habitants of this county, or by parties from other
this dessription have been committed by the in-
districts, I do not know. However, as far as in
us lies, we must endeavour to put down by the
strong arm of the law offences of this nature."
Mr. Serjeant Howley, in his charge to the
grand jury at the last assizes for Limerick,

said

“There are a number of persons charged with offences connected with the possession and use of firearms. To the latter subject I feel it my incumbent duty to draw your attention, as I conceive there are a large portion of magistrates upon the grand jury; for, although it appears "Lawful authority appears to be pushed aside. there was no lack of arms before, there has been Threatening notices and the arms of the assassin latterly an extraordinary influx of arms into the govern, control, and punish every exercise of procountry, the possession and use of which are con-perty, right, or duty. Those whom the blow has nected with crimes of the most heinous character. The officer in command of this garrison very properly called upon me on my arrival in town, and directed my attention to placards which have been extensively published and circulated here; and one of them is of so curious a nature, being so shaped as if it had emanated from the Executive of the country, that I conceive it to be my duty to call your attention particularly to it. It bears the Queen's arms at its head, and has all the ap pearance of a Government proclamation; and at the end is the word 'Castle' in large letters, with 'street' in smaller characters, so as to make the latter word invisible to the reader at a distance. I believe the matter to be one of the deepest importance to the peace and order of society; and I think that you should call the attention of the Executive to this subject."

Mr. Baron Lefroy, who had also been a Member of that House, in his charge to the grand jury of Leitrim at the last assizes, said

"I have to remark upon this calendar as I have had to remark upon other calendars in Ireland

not reached know and feel, from the written threats they receive, that in their daily avocations they literally walk in the shadow of death. No courage, no precaution, no life, however blameless, saves the victim from his doom; and when the bloody deed is accomplished, it would appear as if it was the work of an invisible hand, for no trace is found, no information gleaned, no eye has seen the perpetrator of the crime. Amongst the more civil court, Donohoe and Dwyer, both men of most recent cases of murder were two officers of my exemplary character and conduct. Donohoe, in the immediate vicinity of this town, on his return home in the evening, was accosted in terms of civility on the public highway by three armed men, and the next moment was shot to death. Dwyer, in the town of Templemore, was rising on his knees after night prayer, and received, through the window of his humble chamber, the wounds that terminated his life.”

A petition had been placed in his hands by a right hon. Gentleman (Mr. G. D. Damer), who had been compelled to leave town, and who had requested him (Sir W. Verner) to present it in his name, signed by eight

magistrates, three clergymen of the Estab-| read to the House a placard issued by one lished Church, two Roman Catholic cler- of these persons, which was surmounted by gymen, and all the respectable persons in a representation of the Royal arms, and and about the town of Roscrea, represent- bore the appearance of an official proclaing that on the 25th of March last, the mation:fair-day of that town, they had been eyewitnesses to a sale by auction of firearms, which was attended by crowds of the lowest orders of the population, who bought up guns and pistols as fast as they could be put up for sale-some as low in price as 2s. for a case of pistols, and guns at equally low prices, The petitioners represented that the well-disposed persons of all classes in the district joined in expressing a hope

that the Government would lose no time in taking this matter into their most serious consideration, and in adopting some measures to prevent the continuance of so great an abuse by legislative enactment, He had received, too, a letter from the Earl of Glengall, from which he might read the following passages:

"Why do the farmers buy arms?-Because every ruffian has a gun; if they had not, the farmers would not want them. Every villain in this country has arms; it's truly dreadful! Auctions are held at most of our markets regularly; we have numberless proofs of fellows in the public works having bought them and attacked houses." A letter appeared in the Limerick Chronicle, of the 28th ult., signed by William Wilson, whose son had been attacked by some ruffians and dangerously wounded, in which, after stating that the magistrates and police were zealously tracing the perpetrators of the outrage, the writer proceeded:

66

They seem to be fully aware of the impending ruin that awaits the rural districts, for want of any coercive guard, owing to the general armament of the whole population of the lowest order in Ireland, when every man may walk the country at large, at all hours, with his gun primed and loaded. Spain was never worse than Ireland is now; you can get a man shot for half-a-crown. I do not jest, I am speaking seriously; a short time will tell."

He thought one of the greatest misfortunes that could befall Ireland would be its deprivation, at the present time, of the services of that noble Lord (the Lord Lieutenant) by whom the administration of the affairs of that country had been conducted under the present Government. It was stated that, when that noble Lord went to Ireland, he expressed his intention to govern that country without an Arms Act; and in consequence of that declaration some dealers in arms had not scrupled to make the assertion that they sold firearms under the authority of the Government. He might

"Whereas many evil-disposed persons avail themselves of the present scarcity of food as a pretext to commit acts of violence against property, and otherwise disturbing the peace of the country, his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant is pleased to grant all Her Majesty's peaceable and loyal subjects, without distinction, the power to have and to keep any description of firearms, for the protection of the public peace, and likewise their own homes and property, without any reperson from whom the arms are purchased. Thostriction, except an invoice or certificate of the mas M'Crade is privileged by his Excellency, and fully empowered by the honourable Board of Excise, to offer for sale by auction, to the peaceable inhabitants of this town, 500 double and singlebarrelled guns of various sorts, and 1,000 pair of pistols, warranted all double Tower proof, 500,000 best percussion caps, a large quantity of powderflasks, shot, bags and belts, wash rods, turnscrews, nipple wrenches, &c.

THOMAS M'GRADE, Licensed Auctioneer,
4, Castle-street, Dublin."

The sale of arms still continued in Ireland,
and he had received information from the
county of Down that no less than 500 stand
of arms had recently been sold in one por-
He thought these
tion of that county.
circumstances deserved the attention of
the Government; and he begged to move
for returns of all applications made to the
Government by grand juries, magistrates
and others in Ireland, with reference to the

unlimited sale of arms and ammunition in

Ireland.

MR. GROGAN seconded the Motion.

MR. LABOUCHERE: Sir, I can assure the hon. and gallant Baronet who has just sat down, that it is very far from my desire to express any surprise, much less to make any complaint of an Irish representative having thought fit, under the present circumstances of that country, to call the attention of the House to its internal condition, both as respects the security of life and property there, and as respects the effect produced by the determination of the Government and the House at the end of last Session to have the law in Ireland the same as it is in England, with regard to the sale and possession of firearms, and to do away with those Acts, which had been so long on the Statute-book, forbidding the sale and possession of firearms, except under certain restrictions. I can assure the House that the condition of Ireland during the calamitous winter which has just passed over our heads, both in this