demnatory of the injustice which was pro- | rates to increase to any great extent, and posed to be done.

The EARL of DESART considered that the cities enjoyed many advantages as the depositories of the wealth of the country, and that therefore they should be compelled to endure the burdens of their own pauperism. It was a strong fact that the citizens were in the habit of encouraging the settlement of paupers in towns for the sake of the rack-rents obtained from their lodgings.

if the poor were entirely thrown upon The MARQUESS of CLANRICARDE them? The towns furnished a market to would not attempt to follow his noble and the district. The towns increased the learned Friend, but would confine himself value of the property of the district; and solely to a consideration of the clause un- he would say it would be a gross injustice der discussion. It was the argument of if the district were not called upon to pay noble Lords opposite, and of those who a share of the taxation, if, under a pecuopposed an extension of the area of taxa- liar pressure, and in a time of great need, tion, that the land should support the la- the rates of the towns should rise to an bourers located upon it and no more; he amount which, as compared with the avedenied that that was sound political eco-rage rates heretofore in Ireland, would unnomy; he deemed it to be the most erro-doubtedly be exceedingly oppressive. neous reasoning, founded upon the narrowest view of the true duty of a community. It had been remarked by the noble Earl (Earl Grey) that the opponents of the Bill had proceeded upon a mistaken assumption throughout; they seemed to consider the employment of labour by the owner of the land as a charity, as a step taken to preserve the labourer from starvation, and not as a duty undertaken for mutual benefit, and with the hope of conferring recipro- EARL FITZWILLIAM thought, that cal advantage. So long as noble Lords whatever they did with other parts of the set out from premises so obviously false, Bill, this at least was a clause which ought it could not be a matter of surprise that to be postponed. He was quite convinced their conclusions were mischievously wrong, that the question of the community into and liable to lead to extreme abuse. As re- which Ireland ought to be divided for the garded the question of labour, it was easy to purpose of carrying this Bill into effect, say, see what hardship you are inflicting on had not yet been sufficiently considered. large electoral districts, if in any case you It seemed to him to be a grievous mistake force them to pay for the pauperism of the to take this clause as having reference towns; but was this assertion practically merely to town and country. It was not true? They talked of effecting an im- a question between town and country, but provement in those districts, and they a question between high-rated, pauperized would surely not deny that one of the districts, and districts which were lowgreatest improvements under the circum-rated and not pauperized. The towns and stances of the country would be a diminution of the number of persons resident there? There was little doubt that when the population of a district became destitute, they would flock into and become dependent on the towns. If the workhouse test was good for anything, it would induce persons driven from their land to keep as long as they could from the parish. If so, they would be able to maintain themselves in and about towns for a time of sufficient duration to qualify themselves, under the provisions of this Bill, to receive relief; and thus the towns would have to support men in their destitution, from whose labour, previously, no benefit had been obtained. But, was it true that the electoral districts derived no benefit from the existence of the towns? Was it or was it not, he would ask noble Lords acquainted with Ireland, notorious fact that there were districts which would be totally ruined were the poor

a

the districts were intimately connected, and they could not advance the interests of one without promoting the interests of the other. The subject was as yet, however, imperfectly understood, and he should therefore vote against the clause.

The MARQUESS of WESTMEATH said, it had been decided last evening that this Bill should pass only as a temporary measure. He believed that division had not been come to for a factious purpose, and he found it necessary to declare that he had given his vote with the greatest sincerity. He had stated then, and he now repeated, he thought it due to the generosity of the House of Commons and liberality of the people of England, that the measure should be fairly tried in Ireland if it passed through Parliament; and he was willing to declare, if Her Majesty's Ministers would assure him they would not attempt to disturb the vote already come to,

that he, for one, would not offer any opposition whatever to any part of the Bill. He was willing to let all the responsibility rest on them, on the understanding that it was a temporary Bill. They, the landlords of Ireland, had a right to demand that it should be temporary only, and they would offer no further opposition to Her Majesty's Ministers if Her Majesty's Ministers would refrain from disturbing the vote of last night. If they refused to give him that assurance, and did attempt to disturb that vote, he should feel himself at liberty to give them all the opposition in his power.

The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE was willing to relieve the noble Marquess from all the responsibility he felt. He (the Marquess of Lansdowne) could make not such promise as that asked for. He reserved to himself, as their Lordships reserved to themselves, the power to take whatever course he might think proper at any subsequent stage of the Bill.

heir Lordships divided:-Content, 54; Not Content, 73: Majority for the Amendment, 19.

Clauses 13 and 14 were then discussed; and, after some conversation, agreed to. On Clause 15, which regulates the rating of tithes, being proposed,

The EARL of WICKLOW moved that both this and Clause 16 be omitted from the Bill; he believed they were inserted with the intention of benefiting the clergy; but he understood they would not oppose

the omission.

They were afraid, under the pressure of the times, and the peculiar circumstances of Ireland, they would not have received their incomes when a heavy rate would be demanded of them-that they would have to pay a rate on an income they had not received, and which, in some cases, they would never receive at all. It was the opinion of a majority of the clergy that the evil they now laboured under was less than that which would be created if the clauses were retained in the Bill. He therefore gave his support to the proposal of the noble Earl.

The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE consented to the Amendment. Clauses omitted.

On Clause 17 being proposed,

A short discussion took place on the power of recovering rates made and left uncollected.

LORD STANLEY said, when a rate was unpaid, it was not uncommon to make a new one before the arrears were collected. The consequence of this was, that the few who paid were rated twice or three times over, while the greater number escaped. If this were permitted with impunity, it would almost oblige others to take the same course in self-defence. If there was not a power given of recovering the rate from defaulters, the difficulty of collection would be so greatly increased as to cause an universal demoralisation; the honest and solvent would be discouraged, and an example would be set of opposition to a The ARCHBISHOP of DUBLIN had come rate to the poor which would render the to the determination not to oppose the administration of the law in Ireland absoAmendment of the noble Earl. The lutely impracticable. This subject declauses were introduced with a view of served the serious attention of the Gobenefiting the clergy, and relieving them vernment. from a very great grievance; but, in doing so, the effect of the clauses would be to subject them to another. The grievance they at present laboured under was this they were rated on their gross, instead of their net income. It was to relieve them from this that the clauses (making the tithe composition in future separately rateable, instead of being rated with the hereditaments on which such composition was charged) had been proposed; but, on the whole, the clergy preferred remaining as they were, thinking the evil they at present suffered less than that to which they would be subjected by the operation of the clauses inserted in the Bill. They thought

it better

"To bear the ills they had,

Than fly to others that they knew not of."

EARL GREY thought the matter would be better considered separately from the present Bill; he believed the existing law was not so defective in this point as generally supposed.

Clause agreed to, as was Clause 18, which regulates the valuation.

On the question that Clause 19, by which it was proposed to be enacted that the number of ex-officio guardians in any union should not exceed the number of elective guardians, should stand part of the Bill,

The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE proposed some alteration in the clause, but in a tone which rendered it impossible to colleet its purport.

The EARL of ST. GERMANS expressed his approval of the proposed Amend

ment. The idea which prevailed that exofficio guardians would outnumber the elective guardians was illusory. There were not ten unions in Ireland in which the number of ex-officio guardians would equal that of the elective guardians.

The EARL of WICKLOW was of opinion that the ex-officio guardians would, in the majority of instances, favour what was called the democratic party rather than the

tion of the Commissioners was in these terms:

"At the same, we are strongly of opinion, that in case the justices of Lancashire be disposed, on consulting with the local visitors, to grant the application, which must shortly come before them, for renewing the existing license, they might most properly insist that Mr. Coode, the individual who is most largely interested in the prosperity of the institution, and who, whatever he may be in form, is virtually the principal proprietor, should be associated in the license by name as co-proprietor with his sister, and that his residence upon the The EARL of CLANCARTY was un-premises should be made an indispensable condiderstood to express a wish that no ex-officio tion of the renewal; and we would, moreover guardians should be appointed. If the ma- suggest, that care should be taken upon the same gistrates were deserving of the confidence occasion to enforce the immediate appointment of a competent medical assistant, to be also resident of the ratepayers, they would be elected on the spot, and relieve the present medical offiby them. cer from a portion of his duties."

landed interest.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Friday, May 7, 1847.

MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.-1° Van Diemen's Land Company; British American Land Company; House of Commons Costs Taxation; Metropolitan Buildings.

2o Poor Removal (England and Scotland); Savings' Banks lishment. With respect to the second part

Annuities.

Reported. County Buildings; Naval Service of Boys;
Passengers Act Amendment; Drainage of Lands.

of the question, he could answer it in the affirmative. Mr. Green, a gentleman per

PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Mr. F. Baring and other hon. fectly competent, had been appointed.

Members, from several places, for Alteration of the Law of Marriage. By Sir J. Tyrell, from Stambourne, against the Roman Catholic Relief Bill.-By Mr. Kemble, from Peckham, and Mr. Pattison, from London, for Inquiry respecting the Rajah of Sattara.-By Mr. Marsland, from Stockport, respecting Remuneration to Tax Assessors and

Collectors.-By Lord Courtenay, from Owners and Occupiers of Land in the Kingsbridge Union, in favour of the

Agricultural Tenant-Right Bill.-By Mr. F. Baring, from

Portsmouth, for Regulating the Qualification of Chemists and Druggists. By Mr. Pattison, from Congleton, against the proposed Plan of Education.-By Captain Berkeley

and other hon. Members, from several places, in favour of the Health of Towns Bill.-By Captain Berkeley and other hon. Members, from several places, in favour of

the Medical Registration and Medical Law Amendment Bill. By Mr. Somers, from Guardians of the Sligo Union, in favour of the Railways (Ireland) Bill.—By Sir

De L. Evans, from Henry Needham Scrope Shrapnel, of

Bradford, for Consideration of his Case.

HAYDOCK LODGE.

IMMIGRATION OF PAUPERS FROM
IRELAND.

SIR B. HALL wished to ask a question of the Home Secretary on the subject of the vast influx of Irish paupers into Liverpool, which had been represented in a petition to that House from the select vestry of Liverpool, from which petition he would read the statement of facts:

"That, by official returns, the number who have come into the port from Ireland since the 1st of January is 150,750; that of these only 48,186 have emigrated, leaving 102,564 who are either wandering about the town of Liverpool and the neighbouring villages, or spreading, as mendicants, throughout the whole kingdom. That, in addition to these numbers, officially returned, MR. W. O. STANLEY begged to ask your petitioners believe that 27,218 have arrived the Secretary of State for the Home De- since the 1st of December, to which must be added partment if, in conformity with the recom- the multitudes who have come into Glasgow and mendation of the Commissioners in Lunacy the seaports of Wales. That 250 persons have recently been sent over to Liverpool by the mayor in their last report upon Haydock Lodge, of Wexford, the cost of whose passage was dethe magistrates of the county of Lancaster, frayed by a public subscription raised by the inon the renewal of the license this year, had habitants of Wexford, and 130 of whom imrequired the proprietor, Mr. Coode, to re-mediately became chargeable, and demanded and side on the premises; and also to provide received parochial relief; and that your petitioners are informed by authority, that such proceeda competent medical assistant; also to re-ing on the part of the mayor and inhabitants of side in the asylum? The recommenda- Wexford was not contrary to any known law, and

that the only redress your petitioners have is one | ber of immigrants from Ireland, and the which they would be reluctant to have recourse consequent progress of disease. The last to the removal of these poor persons under the provisions of the Act 8 and 9 Victoria, c. 117, deputation he saw two days ago, and they which Act, moreover, from its complicated and stated to him that, since the 15th of Janexpensive process, is found ineffective, and the lo- uary, when an accurate account was first cal magistrates have not deemed it expedient to kept, the number of Irish paupers that had attempt to put it in force. That the number of arrived in Liverpool was no less than immigrants has increased, is increasing, and, so far from diminishing, will, as your petitioners 180,000 of these 40,000 or 50,000 had confidently believe, and as they were warned emigrated; a large number had passed to would be the case, increase more rapidly as the other parts of the country, but that still weather improves, and the facilities of travelling from 60,000 to 80,000 remained, in adbecome greater, more especially as it appears that dition to the ordinary population of Liverthe wealthy inhabitants of Ireland may subscribe to send destitute persons over to England for relief pool. A statement was also made, that without committing a breach of any law. That cases had occurred of steamboats having this immigration is a great and heavy burden upon brought paupers over from Ireland in a the ratepayers of the parish of Liverpool, but that state of fever, whom they landed at Liverthe pecuniary burden is comparatively trifling, and the least of the evils of which they have to pool. In consequence of these statements, complain. That some of the immigrants come instructions had been addressed to the over in a state of actual infectious disease, and a custom-house authorities at Liverpool, large number of them so predisposed to it that directing that two ships lying in the Merthey fall sick shortly after their arrival, and so sey, which were employed during quaranspread and propagate disease and death among an tine (though fortunately they were very otherwise healthy population. That the consequences are most disastrous and alarming to the seldom required) as lazarettoes, be used people-dysentery, diarrhoea, smallpox, and typhus as hospital-ships, so as to prevent the abound. Three of the relieving officers have al- spread of infection. A custom-house officer ready died of typhus fever, and two now lie danger would board every steamer or vessel with ously ill; one of the medical officers is dead, and another is ill; one of the nurses of the Lying-in- deck passengers, and if he found any of Hospital is dead; and another ill. 654 paupers them suffering from disease, he would hoist have been buried in the work house cemetery with- the yellow flag. She would then be inin the last month, the average number of inter- spected by a medical officer, and those ments during the last twelve years being only 1,367 annually, so that in one month the interments have passengers having fever would be taken to nearly equalled half the number they usually the hospital-ship, and kept apart, instead of amount to in one whole year. That your petition- being landed at Liverpool. Notice had also ers deplore the miseries of the Irish poor, and are been given to the owners of those vessels ready and anxious, by every means in their power, which brought over fever passengers, that to relieve those miseries, and are of opinion that the inhabitants of Liverpool have exhibited a noble if the practice were persisted in, it would and generous sympathy in behalf of their suffering be necessary to place the vessel under fellow-subjects But while they are most anxious quarantine for a limited period. He had to extend justice and charity to Ireland, they con- received a letter from the Mayor of Liverceive that they are entitled to demand justice and charity for the parishioners of Liverpool, whom pool, acknowledging the receipt of these they represent; and for themselves, and with every directions, and stating that he anticipated the most sincere wish that the distressed pauper the most beneficial results from them. The Irish should be relieved, humbly and earnestly greatest satisfaction had been given also petition that they may be relieved at home, and to the inhabitants of Liverpool by the adopprevented from spreading sickness and death, and the moral contagion of degrading mendicancy tion of these precautions, which he beamongst the towns and villages of England." lieved to be indispensably necessary. With regard to other places, the same representations had not been made to him as from Liverpool. In reply to the application for pecuniary relief, he was not able to hold out any hope that the Government would be able to bear any portion of the burden thus imposed upon the ratepayers of Liverpool. An offer had been made, however, of tents, if places could be found outside the town where they could be fixed, and in which the immigrants would have a better chance of escaping disease. building at Cardiff had also been applied as an hospital for the sick. Three weeks

He wished to ask whether it were the intention of the Government to take any steps to relieve the pressure on the rates at the various ports in England and Wales, and whether they intended to introduce a law of settlement for Ireland?

SIR G. GREY said, that statements precisely similar in substance to those contained in the petition of the hon. Baronet had referred to had been from time to time addressed to him by the municipal or parochial authorities at Liverpool, and by deputations who had represented the num

A

SOLDIERS' PENSIONS.

MAJOR LAYARD wished to inquire of the hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War whether it were the intention of the Government to increase the pension of the private soldier?

ago he had received a notice from Liver- | pose any restrictions upon the exportation pool, that from 250 to 300 Irish passen- of wheat. gers who were rescued from an emigrant ship and taken to Wexford were forwarded to Liverpool by a public subscription on the part of the inhabitants of Wexford, the Mayor of Wexford " recommending these parties to the justice and mercy of the inhabitants of Liverpool." An inquiry had been addressed to him (Sir G. Grey) to know whether the inhabitants of Liverpool had a legal remedy against the authorities of Wexford. He replied that the proceeding was not against any law that he knew of; and that the only remedy was the law to facilitate the removal of such destitute persons back to Ireland. It was not the intention of the Government to propose any alteration in the law of settlement in Ireland.

SIR H. W. BARRON wished to know whether the right hon. Baronet intended to propose any law providing that the 6,000,000l. annually spent in this country by Irish noblemen, Members of Parliament, and other persons connected with Ireland, should be spent in that country?

CAPTAIN ROBB.

MR. H. BERKELEY wished to know whether the Government had received any complaints that Captain Robb, the senior officer in command of the English squadron at Oporto, had espoused with too much of partisanship the cause of the rebel junta there?

CAPTAIN BERKELEY said, that no complains against Captain Robb had been received from Sir W. Parker, the admiral on the station, whose attention would have been called to any matter deserving of reprehension. It was, therefore, to be presumed that no just ground of complaint existed against Captain Robb.

MR. F. MAULE said, it had been stated by his noble Friend in another place that it was the intention of Her Majesty's Government to revise the warrant regulating the amount of pensions, and to increase the minimum pension to the sum of 8d. a day. In addition to this the soldier would also carry with him as pension the goodconduct pay which he had earned during his 21 years' service.

THE MONETARY PRESSURE.

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said: I am about to take a course irregular in point of form, but necessary, in order to enable me to take, on Monday next, a step which I think it most desirable should be taken in the present state of the monetary concerns of this country; and I hope the feverish anxiety that prevails, not only in the metropolis, but in the country generally, will justify me in occupying, for a short time, the attention of the House, to state as precisely as I can what are the intentions of Her Majesty's Government. I need hardly state to the House that this subject has occupied the anxious consideration of the Government. My noble Friend and myself more especially have received from day to day numerous deputations and representations from various parts; we have been in constant, I may say hourly communication, with those parties whom we believe most able to afford accurate information and the best advice on the state of the money market, and the steps it might be necessary to take in consequence. The complaints and representations which have been made to us may be classed in two great divisions. Parties coming up from the country have urged that various steps should be taken, either directly by the Government, or by the Bank of England, guaranteed by the Government, all of which, when sifted, amounted either to a repeal or a suspension of the present law by which the currency of the country is regulated. Now, Sir, I LORD J. RUSSELL: I beg to inform do not wish at the present moment to raise the hon. Member that it is not the inten- any discussion on that point-there will be tion of Her Majesty's Government to pro-another occasion when that question may

EXPORTATION OF CORN.

CAPTAIN HARRIS wished to ask the noble Lord at the head of the Government whether it were his intention to propose any measure to put a stop to the exportation of wheat now going on, 134,000 quarters having been exported during the last month, and large exportations were still going on. The price of wheat was rising very rapidly, and he understood a further rise of several shillings had taken place on that day.