whom they were addressed, except it were | to speak of that party in any other tone the Speaker. If there were an Irish Mem- than that of courtesy. But he could not ber in the House who believed that the de- help saying that he thought the hon. velopment of the fisheries of Ireland was of Member for Shrewsbury and his Friends vast importance to that country, which they about him, had on this occasion showed (on the Opposition side) really believed, he themselves over-anxious to avail themthought that Member was scarcely justified selves of the opportunity which the empty in bringing forward the subject and occu- state of the Ministerial benches afforded pying the time of the House, whilst there them of annoying the Government, alwere other matters of great public import- though he admitted that in so doing they ance before it, unless he meant to press his were but following the example set by Motion to a division. It might be said that every Opposition whose conduct he had the Government had very probably no more witnessed in that House. They appeared than twenty Members on either side of the somewhat disappointed at the hon. Baronet House on that occasion; but was that the the Member for Waterford consenting to fault of the hon. Gentlemen who occupied withdraw his Motion, in accordance with the Opposition side of the House? Were the wish of the Government, because they they responsible for the ridiculous position had anticipated placing the Government in in which certain persons might place them- a minority on this occasion. Now, he beselves? He (Mr. Disraeli) thought that the lieved that his hon. Friend the Member for best thing which the Government could do Waterford came down with this single obwould be to grant a Committee. He was ject in view, viz., the promotion and adtold that a dissolution of Parliament was vancement of Irish fisheries; and with that intended; and if they wanted to expedite view he moved for the appointment of a public business, they might depend upon it Committee; and after he had made his the best thing they could do was not to statement, the Government expressed their provoke discussions, but to let every man intentions on the subject. With that exhave a Committee upon every imaginable pression the hon. Baronet stated that he subject. Let them grant them everything was satisfied, and that after what had fallen they desired, and they might depend upon from the Government he believed that his it that they would go to the country with object would not be furthered by the apa much more popular claim to public con- pointment of a Committee; that it was, in fidence, for the people of England would fact, better to leave the whole of the matter feel that they were men with a certain in the hands of the Government. The knowledge of human nature that they hon. Baronet had clearly no party object could and would deal with troublesome and in view in coming down to the House to wearisome people. The people of England make this Motion; and he (Mr. Labouwould then say to themselves, "These men chere) must say that he thought it was a will make good business men for us in most unusual course for the House, after Parliament-they will grant measures, be- an hon. Member had expressed himself sacause every man has a project in his head tisfied with the explanation of the Governas to the necessity of having a Committee ment and his willingness to withdraw his upon his peculiar scheme, and we shall at Motion, to insist on pressing the question last have a House of Commons who can to a division. He considered that the hon. carry on the business of the nation." Baronet had not deserved the language which hon. Gentlemen opposite had chosen to adopt towards him on this occasion. He hoped that the hon. Baronet would not accede to the proposition which had been made to him to insist upon a division on his Motion. He (Mr. Labouchere) had in a very thin House stated the reasons which induced him to object to this Motion. He had stated, in the first place, that he believed the fullest information upon all questions relating to Irish fisheries was already upon the Table of the House. He stated also, that he had been assured by the Gentleman who presided over the Irish Fisheries Commission, Mr. Mulvany, that it would MR. LABOUCHERE, after the observations which had fallen in the course of this debate, and especially from the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, felt it necessary to say a few words. He readily acknowledged that the hon. Gentlemen opposite, of whom the hon. Member for Shrewsbury was so distinguished an ornament, had offered a very fair and candid opposition to the course recommended by the Government on different occasions during the present Session, whilst they had handsomely supported the Government on various occasions in a very disinterested manner; and he had no reason whatever jocose manner, we did think there was something jocose in the hon. Baronet the mover of this Committee getting up and stating that his ground for withdrawing his Motion was that he assumed that the Min cause the greatest inconvenience at this | been here during the whole of the debate.] moment to the officers appointed to those As to the charge brought against us of fisheries if they were compelled to absent meeting the Motion or proposition in a themselves from that business for the purpose of giving evidence before a Committee of the House of Commons; that it would throw that department into great confusion; and Mr. Mulvany, therefore, requested him to do all in his power to dis-isters were prepared to grant him all the suade the hon. Baronet the Member for Waterford from persisting in his Motion. He acknowledged, with the hon. Member for Shrewsbury, that nothing was easier than to grant Committees. That hon. Gentleman had told them that that would be a popular as well as an easy course. He (Mr. Labouchere) knew that it was so; but after he had been told by those who were best informed on the subject, that the granting of this Committee would lead to public inconvenience, he felt it to be his duty to request his hon. Friend not to persist in his Motion for a Committee. The hon. Member for Shrewsbury himself, by the tone which he had adopted with reference to the granting of a Committee, had clearly admitted that but little good could be gained by the passing of this Motion. things that he asked for, He states that he will persist in withdrawing the Motion, though no affirmative answer could be drawn from them, or has been drawn either from the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department, from the Chief Secretary for Ireland, or from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as to whether or not they would grant what the hon. Member asked for. Therefore I think we are justified in saying that the grounds on which this Motion is withdrawn, are not those which are stated. We have had no promise whatever that anything-that any attempt that any single. effort more-is to be made with regard to the Irish fisheries, than that which was known to have been made before the Motion was brought forward. And therefore it will be understood by those in Ireland interested in fisheries, that nothing whatever has been obtained by this sham attempt to obtain a Committee of Inquiry into the various modes in which the fishé contrary to the usual custom of this House, we persist in going to a division, and refuse to the hon. Gentleman the Member for Waterford leave to withdraw his Motion, do not let it be understood by the Irish nation that it is from any want of desire or good will, on our part, to support her interests, and to take every method in our power to develop her resources. The responsibility rests upon those Gentlemen who bring forward these Motions, asking for assistance to Ireland, and then abandon them, that all the good wishes which we entertain towards Ireland are not fulfilled. LORD G. BENTINCK: Sir, my right Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has insinuated that my hon. Friends on this side of the House were not here during the greater portion of this debate; but he may not be aware that out of the twenty-ries of Ireland may be advanced; and if, three Members that the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Armagh says he took down as being present when the debate commenced, an hon. Friend of mine, the Member for East Sussex, was the seconder of the Motion-and that my right hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland, and my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury, and my hon. Friend the Member for Barnstaple, as well as myself, were present-so that, at all events, of those who actually supported the Motion by their presence, there were five English Members on this side of the House-who remained here, as I remained, at the request of the hon. Baronet the Member for Waterford, who expressed to me a wish that, as I was especially looked upon as the friend of Ireland, I would stay and say a word in favour of this Motion. Now, I think that if the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Armagh gave us a list of these twenty-three names- An Hon. MEMBER: There were twenty-six]-I believe that we should not find one single Cabinet Minister. [Sir G. GREY: I have SIR H. W. BARRON, after the somewhat personal tone which had been addressed towards him, particularly by the hon. Member for Shrewsbury, might be expected to make some explanation. In the first place, he begged leave to inform that hon. Gentleman that he had not come down to the House for the purpose of making a sham Motion-that, on the contrary, he had made his Motion with the most sincere intention to see it adopted The House divided:-Ayes 22; Noes 73: Majority 51. List of the AYES. and carried out in such a manner as might the Committee the men proposed to be prove most conducive to the object which examined, appeared to him to be perfectly he had in view, viz., the good of his coun- idle. try. The hon. Gentleman the Member for Shrewsbury had expatiated at some length upon the time which this discussion had wasted, whilst there were other matters of infinitely greater importance yet remaining to be discussed; but the hon. Gentleman had himself contributed, in an eminent degree, to that waste, for he had addressed the House no less than three times on this question. In spite of what the hon. Gentleman had said, it was his intention to fall in with the views of the Government by withdrawing his Motion. pur MR. BANKES did not rise to object to the course the hon. Baronet wished to sue; but his last remark gave a new complexion to the matter, and rendered it dif ficult to allow the Motion to be withdrawn. By whom had this been made a party question? He, for one, was suprised at being accused of having made this a party question in the present state of Ireland; but he objected to these Motions brought forward by the friends of the Government without any intention of pressing them. The very next Motion related to waste lands in Ireland. Was this to be a sham Motion also? These Motions were interposed by the friends of the Government; and if those who supported them were to be accused of making them party questions, it would be the way, not of making Ireland a laughing-stock, but of insulting her, and of showing that her interests were neglected by those who must appear to the public as false friends. Arkwright, G. Gore, M. Knightley, Sir C. TELLERS. Barron, Sir H. W. List of the NOES. Aglionby, H. A. Armstrong, Sir A. Berkeley, hon. C. MR. POULETT SCROPE assured the hon. and learned Gentleman that he had entertained no intention of putting off his Motion relative to waste lands, if he could have obtained the attention of the House to the discussion; but, at eleven o'clock at night, it was not likely he could obtain that attention, and he must put off his Mo-Hawes, B. tion on account of the hour of the night, Heathcoat, J. Hobhouse, rt. hon. Sir J. Wyse, T. TELLERS. Hill, Lord M. and not because it was a sham Motion. MR. HUDSON complained of the imputations which had been cast by the hon. Baronet upon Gentlemen on that (the OpBRITISH WEST INDIA POSSESSIONS. position) side of the House, who were quite as honourable as the hon. Baronet himself. MR. HUME wished to call the attention For his own part, he thought the inquiry of the House to the petition from Jamaica, was a very proper one to be instituted, and signed by 4,000 persons, praying for free that the hon. Baronet had acted unwisely trade for that colony, and for an additional in asking for its withdrawal. The reasons supply of labour, as requisite for the prosgiven by the right hon. Gentleman the Se-perity of that island. Since the petition cretary for Ireland for not calling before had been presented some parts of the 786 hoped | had received the sanction of the most eminent philanthropists, and he thought there could be no possible objection to allowing colonists to proceed to the coasts of Africa, there to procure slaves, and the moment they reached the shores of a British colony, set them free, and employ them as free labourers. The petitioners prayed, and he hoped the House would favourably consider their prayer, that all restrictions upon the transit and use of British produce should be removed, and that all restrictions upon the free introduction of labour should also be removed. The grievance which formed the subject of this complaint was a great grievance, and one in the removal of which the mother country and the colonies were deeply interested. All the colonies joined in praying for its removal. The hon. Gentleman concluded by moving prayer had been granted, and he that the Government would soon comply with the rest. The great object which the petitioners sought was, that the colonies should be supplied with abundance of labour; and he conceived that there was no more effectual mode of putting an end to the slave trade than by removing those temptations which induced men to carry on that traffic. The slave trade was like smuggling. Let the temptation to introduce contraband goods be once taken away, and the necessity for maintaining a preventive service would altogether cease. To restrain smuggling upon the coasts of England we kept a force of sixty or seventy cruisers, and we incurred an expense of 800,000l. a year; yet tons of tobacco were unlawfully imported. The only way to put down smuggling was to reduce import duties; the only mode of abolishing the slave trade would be to supply our colonies with abundance of free labour. It cost the country 1,000,0001. sterling per annum to repress the slave trade, and after all the object was not accomplished. From a return laid before Parliament, it appeared that the number of ships of war of all classes employed for the suppression of the slave trade was fifty-six, mounting 886 guns, and manned by 9,289 men. In that force the mortality and casualties were well known to be great. It was stated, and he believed that the statement rested upon very just grounds, that the colonists could not much longer continue the cultivation of sugar if restriction were continued upon their obtaining labour from Africa and elsewhere, as, while labour from its scarcity was becoming dear in the colonies, the slave population of the countries with which those colonies were called on to compete was daily increasing by means of the slave trade. The views of this important subject which he was thus endeavouring to press upon the House were entertained, not only by the colonists, but he was enabled to state that the Anti-Slavery Society had addressed a letter to the noble Lord at the head of the Government, entreating the adoption of new measures. If the million now expended in attempting to repress the slave trade could be saved, the advantage was too obvious to be overlooked; he sincerely hoped that the Government and the country would see the necessity of losing no more time, and that they would at once agree in adopting the only measures calculated to put down the slave trade. The redemption of slaves was a practice which MR. BARKLY believed every one in the colonies was agreed on the question of free trade, that if it were applied in the relations between the mother country and the colonies, it ought to be fairly applied, and all the productions of the colonies ought to be freely received. That, hitherto, had not been the case, as evidenced more especially in the articles of rum and molasses. He was also of opinion that the second prayer of the petition-relative to the employment of free labour in the colonies-should be complied with. Long as this question had been talked of, he was surprised that it had not before this been carried into effect. Before he sat down, he wished to inquire of the Under Secretary for the Colonies, what had become of the vessel, the Growler, which it was proposed should be employed in conveying labourers to the West Indies? MR. HAWES said, that the petition in question had been agreed to in Jamaica before the measure introduced by Her Majesty's Government for the relief of the colonies had arrived there, and consequently much of its prayer had been already accomplished. With regard to the encouragement of emigration, there was no power which the Government possessed which had not been exerted for that purpose; and, in fact, a large importation of labour had taken place. was one of great difficulty and expense, The subject therefore not without hope that the severe struggles of our colonies, through a fierce competition, would, by the increased application of science and the improvement of agriculture, which it must occasion, result in the advantage of the colonies themselves. He hoped, therefore, that his hon. Friend would not press his Motion. MR. HUME said, that he would not divide the House upon his Motion; but he considered that he had received no satisfactory answer as to the redemption and importation of African slaves. SIR T. D. ACLAND said, that the difficulty of the exportation of slaves on the coast of Africa was so great, that he had been credibly informed that a legitimate trade was superseding the unlawful traffic in slaves. Motion negatived. and therefore what had been done must be treated as an experiment only; but a large supply of labour had been given by the measures of Lord Stanley when at the head of the Colonial Office; and altogether from the time of the abolition of slavery there had been imported into Jamaica 8,000 labourers, into British Guiana 33,000, and into Trinidad 17,000 odd; the total number imported being upwards of 60,000 labourers. With regard to the vessels between the Kroo coast and that of Africa, alluded to by the hon. Member opposite, some delay had occurred; but he had the satisfaction of informing him that a vessel would soon be ready to proceed to that destination. He was not sanguine in expecting much good from that expedition, nor did he believe that by the importation of labour at all they could do anything but improve the condition of the colonies by lowering the rate of wages there. He did not entertain the least idea that any amount of labour which could possibly be procured, would in the least degree lead to a termination of the slave trade. With regard to sugar, the petition prayed that it might be admitted into distilleries and breweries-a prayer which had been already granted under some restrictions, rendered necessary by the state of the revenue; and with regard to duties, though they might be higher than was pleasing to the hon. Member, it could not be denied that considerable benefit to the producers of sugar and molasses in the colonies, must result from the measures which had been adopted. He would give no opinion at all upon the question of the Navigation Laws, because that subject was before a Committee of that House at the present time. He perhaps MR. HUME objected to the Motion. felt disposed to agree with the hon. Member Too much of the time of the House had opposite, that the principles of free trade already been taken up with that subject had not been sufficiently carried out; but during the Session. He believed that in powers had been given last Session to the mooting the subject, the hon. Member had colonies to act upon those principles; and done much injury by directing the attenwhilst they had continued to the grower of tion of people towards it, when many might sugar in the colonies a certain amount of otherwise never have heard of it. The protection, it had been considerably re- hon. Gentleman had much to answer for in duced, and other restrictions upon the trade this respect, for every discussion on this had been removed. The prayer of the pe- subject was injurious. He was sorry that titioners, therefore, upon all its points had the Government should allow this Bill to already been anticipated to a very great be brought in a Bill in which the term extent; and he was happy to say that,"trading" in seduction had not been dejudging by the recent accounts, the general trade of our colonies was materially extending and improving, and that great amelioration was taking place in their social and domestic condition. He was SEDUCTION AND PROSTITUTION. MR. SPOONER moved for leave to introduce a Bill for the more effectual suppression of trading in Seduction and Prostitution, and for the better protection of females. In compliance with the suggestions of the right hon. Gentleman (Sir G. Grey), his present measure was principally directed towards two objects. In the first place, any person trading in seduction would be liable to be indicted, and might be subjected to imprisonment. He proposed, in the next place, that if any brothel keeper should be convicted of keeping a brothel, it should be within the discretion of the court to make void any term he might have in the house. No one could reasonably object to such provisions; and he would now simply move for leave to bring in a Bill. fined by the hon. Member; he did not know how to define it; and, he would add, that the Bill tended to excite discussion after discussion, and increased the evil which it proposed to suppress. He regretted that |