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A difference has arisen between the President result we desire to avoid? It is very reason of it by the tax-gatherer, all of which has been and the Congress in relation to the proper pol- | able to suppose that the President would feel | brought upon them by the conduct of the icy to be pursued in relation to the States lately || great reluctance to remove men of his own people of these States, to feel over-anxious for in rebellion, who separated from us and formed party, appointed either by himself or his mar their return to participate in ruling the nation themselves into a separate government, and tyred predecessor, even if they did not believe without the best and strongest assurances that between whom and us a fierce war raged for in or advocate his policy. If we attempt to they are safe in doing so. Another reason four years before we succeeded in conquering | prevent it by the use of such questionable, if which keeps them watchful and careful is that them. The President insists that, as the rebel not unwarrantable legislation, as this amend almost every Union man in the whole North, lion is put down and new State governments ment proposes, is there not danger, not only that who has any considerable property, is the have been set up in those States, they are now he will accept the challenge, but that this very holder of the bonds of the Government, which entitled to be represented in the two Houses amendment will be accepted by the people as they feel would be put in peril if the southern of Congress (if the members sent are loyal) a sufficient justification for that course, and men, even with northern help, could ever again and to participate in all respects in the admin furnish a ground for saying that Congress was hold the control of this Government. It is istration of the General Government as if they the aggressive party? Situated as we are, it not true, sir, that the Union people of the had not rebelled. Congress, on the other hand, seems to me that the adoption of this amend North are dissatisfied with the policy or the claim that all the legal relations between these ment will be more likely to produce than to action of Congress on this subject. What they States and the General Government having by || prevent what we all hope to avoid.
do fear is that we shall not stand firm to the the rebellion and war consequent upon it been But suppose that I am mistaken in my views, end; they fear the effect of patronage on us, severed, it rests with Congress as the law-mak and in consequence of a failure to adopt this and they have far more reason to than we have ing department of the Government to restore amendment the President undertakes to help to fear for them. Now, Mr. Presiden what them again, and that, in doing so, it is their his case before the people by turning good luck do you suppose some postmaster, or marright and their duty to exact such assurances Union men who believe with Congress out of shal, or assessor, made by the President out and guarantees as will protect the loyal part of office, and fills their places with men, either of a copperhead, or limping Republican, would the nation against all danger from those who | Republicans or Democrats, who believe in his have among these people arguing for the immehave shown such a determination to destroy it. || policy, is there any such ground of alarm in diate and unconditional admission of the rebel
Neither the President nor Congress as yet this as should frighten us out of our pro States? show any disposition to yield to the views and priety, and drive us to doubtful and desperate The idea is simply ridiculous. The truth is policy of the other, and apparently the ques expedients?
that the Union masses of the loyal States stand tion must be determined by an appeal to the The whole thing is founded in a mistaken firmly with Congress in this matter and will do people in the election of the next Congress. lack of faith in the people. This has been a so to the end if we do not allow them to make
The President, and the majority in both common error of politicians and public men issues against us by the adoption of untenable Houses of Congress, were elected by the same always, but the mistake is greater now than measures. Our platform is firm and strong, political party, the great Union party of the ever before, and especially in regarding any and all the Union party will stand with and country, which carried us so gloriously through past experience of the effect and power of po by us upon it, unless we by our own folly let the great rebellion; and the Federal offices of litical patronage as applicable to the present in a weak timber or rotten plank to frighten the country are generally filled by members of condition of things.
them from it. In this particular matter of the the same party, who were appointed by the In former times, when the people regarded political patronage of the President, if we do President, or his predecessor, Mr. Lincoln. I politics merely as a trade by which certain men nothing that can be made an excuse or cover for suppose it to be true that the great majority of obtained a living; when the issues between the it, if the President turns out good Union men those persons now holding office, as well as the parties were about internal improvements, the because they sustain Congress and concur with great mass of the Union party, concur with public lands, banks, tariffs, and the like, sub the mass of their party, and puts in others Congress in the proper policy to be pursued injects the real merits of which the masses of the because they agree with him, he will raise & the restoration of these rebel States. sup- || people really knew but little about, and cared storm of indignation against himself among pose it is feared that in this contest before | less; when they had no real belief that the suc Union men as has not been witnessed before. the people, as to which of these respective pol cess or defeat of either party would make a The truth is that the President, if he entertains icies shall prevail, the President will attempt | farthing's difference with them or the country, any such design, cannot build up for himself to strengthen his position by the use of his then a body of stirring, active office-holders, to against the Union party, a presidential party patronage, that is, that he will displace men circulate documents, harangue the people, and of any considerable numbers without having in who believe in and advocate the congressional get out the voters, could produce a very impor- | it the men who opposed every measure for the policy, and fill the positions with either Union tant influence upon an election. But this state | putting down the rebellion, who discouraged men, or Democrats who will advocate the pol- l of things has no existence now, and no reli enlistments, opposed the draft, voted the war icy of the President. And I do not know but ance can be placed now upon the experience a failure, and many other things of that charit is feared that men now holding office, who of those days. For four long years we were acter. This very fact will destroy his party if really believe with Congress, will, for fear of engaged in a most desperate and bloody war, he endeavors to make one. Where those men losing their offices, profess to believe and act which periled the very existence of the nation go the people will not. The people look upon with the President. Now, I have no knowl itself. The attention of the whole country was this thing now as they did during the war, not edge that the President designs any such course roused and was kept most painfully intent upon as an ordinary question of politics, but as a quesof action; he may or may not. I do know the causes and course of the war till it ended tion of loyalty or treason, and if the President that the Democratic press and politicians of in the overthrow of the rebellion. Almost every | abandons the great Union party to form one for the country are urging this course upon him || family throughout the loyal North was repre himself, and his party is made up, as it must with great zeal, and with great promise of polit sented in the Army of the Union by some father be in the main, by the men who opposed the ical profit to him and his policy. I cannot help or brother or son, and mourning and sorrow war, they will soon be the only ones left in it. believing that they have their own profit and were carried into almost every northern home If the President is ambitious to have such a advantage much more at heart than his, or by the death of some dear relative in the Army | party as this, shall we deny him the benefit of that of his policy, in giving this disinterested | by disease or on the battle-field, or the still a few hired mercenaries in the shape of Fed. advice. Now, I should as deeply regret to have more cruel mode of starvation in prison. In eral office-holders if he desires? If he chooses any good Union man removed from office, and this way the people have come to comprehend to make changes, so far as my own State is especially one that fully sympathized with Con- || everything, pertaining to the subject as fully
concerned he will have to make them from men gress in their difference with the President, as and completely as the first statesmen in the who do not belong to the Union party, if he any Senator in this Chamber, or any Union inan land. Nor have they, since the close of the must have men who support his policy, for I in the land. I like to have my political friends
any of their interest in it, and will have never yet heard of a Union man there who hold the offices, not only for their cwn advan not until the whole matter is put at rest. does not most cordially support Congress. And tage and profit, but because I am very apt to I have heard it said here, I have read in the I believe my State is not singular in this respect, think they are the best men, and that the pub- | public press, that the great anxiety of the but that the same will be found true of every lic service is more honestly attended to than it || people was to have the matter settled, and get | loyal State. Let us then have faith in the peowould be by men of the opposite political | all the States once more into the Union to ple, stand firmly upon our principles, avoid all belief.
gether. The people are anxious to have the false and doubtful expedients, leave to the Now, if this amendment is adopted, will it Union restored and all act again together, but President the full and free exercise of every have the effect to prevent the President from that is not their great anxiety. What they fear, constitutional right and prerogative, so that any making changes in office for political causes? If and about which they are earnestly anxious, is action of his hostile to the party that elected he has no such purpose or intention, then there that they should not again be admitted until it him, if he be guilty of any, shall be without is certainly no need of such an extraordinary is made perfectly certain that they are not again
If we can keep from killing ourselves, provision being attached to this bill. And I may to come under southern domination, and that I have no fear of the President being able to be allowed to say that I am not prepared to pot even by combination with their old allies | do so, even if he entertains any such wicked believe that he designs to do any such foolish in the North can they again control the Govern purpose. thing. But assuming that he has such a wish ment. The Union people of the North are not Mr. President, I expect to be rebuked and and purpose, will the adoption of such an revengeful or malignant, but they cannot for lectured here and elsewhere for opposing this amendment as this be likely to prevent him get their martyred brothers and sons, or their || amendment. I know that one can hardly be from accomplishing it? On the other hand, own anxieties ard sorrows; they cannot forget || allowed to question a measure here, however will it not look like daring and defying him to the immense burden of public debt imposed | injudicious or unwise he may deem it, without do it, and be very likely to produce the very upon them; and they are too often reminded Il incurring the charge of being a copperhead,
or a conservative, or a Johnson man. I have an indirect and sinister way of legislating, and Read the documents upon your table from the seen in a leading Republican paper a notice of as an atteinpt to do something in a way which different Departments and you will find there my motion to reconsider the vote by which this is not open and honest. Does the Senator are many in office who have never taken the bill was passed, in which it was said that I had from Vermont mean to impute to a majority | oath. adopted the langnage of the copperhead press, of this body dishonesty in its action, that it is Sir, it may be that the people of Vermont and the Senator from Kentucky, [Mr. Davis,} || governed by sinister considerations, that it does are in favor of saying to the President of the My ideas on this subject may be odd and old not act openly and fairly? I will not suffer United States, “You may remove from office fashioned, I admit, but they are such as have myself to be betrayed, Mr. President, into such | whosoever you please, you may put in office always obtained in Vermont.
a reply to these remarks as I think they would whomsoever you please, without the constituMr. President, I do not know anybody who warrant. In a body where we are equals, where tional sanction of the Senate, and we are precan sustain such accusations with less danger the motives of members are not to be assailed, pared to tax ourselves to pay the salary of the of injury to themselves than Vermont and her and where one is presumed to be as honest as man you put in, though he be a traitor and representatives. Vermont has always upheld | another, I have never indulged in any remarks ready again to conspire to overthrow the Gov. freedom and law. The doctrines of equal | claiming for myselfgreater honesty than others; ernment." Sir, it may be that the citizens of rights and equality before the law have been nor have I imputed to others sinister designs | Vermont are for that, but the citizens of Illi. there maintained since the days of Ethan Al or dishonest motives.
nois are not. I claim not to know the views len. Her legislation, her ollicers, and her The proposition under consideration has of the Senator's constituents, but I think I courts have ever faithfully fulfilled her will received but a small part of the Senator's at know something of those whom I have the in sustaining liberty and freedom according to tention. He has denounced it as monstrous; honor to represent. the Constitution and laws. When the war of he has spoken of it as a resort to a doubtful The amendment, as originally proposed, the rebellion came upon the nation no State in and desperate measure, as one upon which no related to the filling of the vacancies which the Union contributed her proportion of men party can stand; and he has said that he is dis existed during the session of the Senate, and more promptly than Vermont.
posed to make the fight within the pale of the which the President would have had an opHer sons showed their patriotism and cour Constitution. Does he mean by that that || portunity to fill in the constitutional way by age on many a bloody field, with equal credit at anybody here is disposed to make a fight with. the advice and consent of the Senate. That least to those of any other State. She paid as out the pale of the Constitution? Why, sir, I was the original proposition. The Senator heavy a legacy of death, in proportion to her think the majority of the Senate who voted for from Ohio (Mr. Sherman] thought it would numbers, as any other. She bore her share in this measure have as much respect for the not do to adopt it in that form because there putting down the rebellion most cheerfully, and Constitution as the Senator froin Vermont, | might be conuected with the revenue some offishe did it to preserve a Government of consti and as little inclination to resort to any sin cer who was squandering the public money, tutional law. She does not desire to have her ister or dishonest mode of legislation to carry and if it was necessary to remove him for malrepresentatives liere aid in frittering away out their objecis.
practice and put an honest man in his place what has cost us so dearly to maintain. She What, sir, is this amendment? And it is to it would not do to say that the successor ap. desires her representatives to stand firmly for that that I design to contine my remarks, and || pointed under such circumstances should not her principles and their principles, but to make not to go into the history of the war, to recount be paid until he was confirmed by the Senate. their fight clearly within the pale of constitu the gallant deeds of the sons of Vermont or In order.to meet that objection the amendment tional law.
other State. Sir, the heroic boys who was changed so as to provide that in case of The two great measures of this session of went from all the States into the Army to put a removal by the President during the recess Congress which elicited the difference of views down this rebellion did their duty, those from of the Senate of an officer for any act or omis. between Congress and the President were the Vermont as well as from elsewhere; and, sir, | sion in violation of public duty, where a perFreedmen's Bureau and civil rights bills. I our legislation here should be shaped to secure son was appointed to fill a vacancy thus occaassisted in the preparation and perfecting of the fruits of the victories which their valor sioned he should be paid. The President can, both those great measures in comunittee. I achieved ; and we should not permit by our if this amendment becomes a law, remove and voted for both on their original passage in the legislation the fruits of the victories which they appoint in case of malfeasance in office, and Senate, and voted for the passage of both not won at such great sacrifices to be lost to the the appointee will be entitled to his salary: withstanding the President's veto. I voted for country and to posterity.
That does not satisfy the Senator from Verthejoint resolution declaring that no State which The pending proposition is simply this: that mont. What does he want? He wants the had been in rebellion was entitled to represen persons unconstitutionally in office shall not President to be vested with authority to retation or to share in the Government of the be paid. The Senator admits that he would move without cause for partisan purposes, and nation until both Houses of Congress should have no objection to that prtion of the amend it may be for the purpose of aiding to force agree thereto. I think I may safely claim to ment which provides that if the President shall into Congress representatives from States not be ranked as a supporter of the policy of Con undertake to fill a vacancy which existed when | fit, according to the Senator's own showing, to gress. It might in reference to these measures the Senate was in session, after the Senate has be represented. That is his object in moving be said of me as a political wag said of a lead adjourned, the person with whom he fills that this reconsideration. There can be no other. ing Anti-Mason in my State in the days of the vacancy should not be paid ; so that to do so But he tells us the President either has the rule of that party,
that he was such a much is not dishonest nora resort to a desperate power to remove, or he has not the power to fool that he believed in his party principles.”
He is willing to refuse pay to an ap remove from office, and if he has the power at I feel a firm and abiding confidence in the pointee in that case; he makes no objection to all it is unlimited. I do not so understand the soundness of our position, and of being able to the provision on this appropriation bill; and Constitution. I do not so understand the maintain it before the people. Our party pro what does he object to? He objects to the practice under the Government. fesses to be based upon something higher and refusal to pay a salary to a person who obtains The Senator from Vermont tells us that from nobler than mere temporary political expedi- his position by a removal without cause, and the foundation of the Government this power ency, and to stand upon the great doctrines of who is put into office for the purpose of break of the President to remove and appoint at pleasliberty and justice. It seems to me especially | ing down the Union party of the country and ure has been recognized. I would like to inquire important that our practice should correspond turning the Government over into the hands of that Senator if it has been recognized in the with our professions; and that we should not of the men who have been fighting for five || Army and Navy. Has it not rather been de. undertake the acts of mere political adventur years to destroy it. He tells us that the peo nied? Will he point to the clause of the Con. ers. In this if anywhere lies our danger. An ple of Vermont, of whose gallant sons he has stitution that restricts the power of the Presiopen and manly stand upon our principles, | spoken, and to the bravery of whose people he dent in the appointment and removal of Army disdaining all political quackery, relying upon has paid a just tribute, are in favor of saying | and Navy officers any more than it does in the the intelligence and patriotism of the people, to the President of the United States, “You appointment and removal of civil officers? Has will carry is safely through to ultimate victory. may, without consulting the Senate, hurl from not Congress from the foundation of the Gov.
Mr. TRUMBULL. Mr. President, much office without cause whomsoever you please, and ernment denied the authority of the President has been said by the Senator from Vermont to put in their places anybody you please, a rebel to remove, except as provided by law, a very which I shall have no occasion to allude, as I || from the rebel army if you will, and we, the large class of officers, both in the Army and in am not in a position, nor about to assume a people of Vermont, will pay the man you thus the Navy? Have we not denied it also in relaposition, that makes it necessary for me to go appoint in the recess of the Senate." He is tion to civil officers? It is not true that the over my political record in order to satisfy my | willing to tax the fathers of the gallant boys President has from the foundation of the Gov. friends at home, in the Senate, or elsewhere, l, who went from the State of Verinont and fought ernment exercised this power ad libitum. I that what I am about to do is not a departure to put down the rebellion, for the purpose of am not disposed to go into that argument. The froin my previous course. I regret very much paying a rebel, it may be, who is put into office Senator from Missouri (Mr. HenderSON] exthat in discussing this question the Senator without the sanction of the Senate, and, as I hausted that subject the other day. He showed from Vermont, in a prepared and written || insist, in defiance of the Constitution, when to how many removals had been made under the speech, should have reflected upon the majority secure him a place a faithful oflicer is, in the different Presidents, and I was astonished at the of the Senate as he has felt at liberty to do. recess of the Senate, removed without cause, few that were made by the earlier Presidents. I regret, sir, that a Senator with whom it has except to make room for a partisan of presi I shall not go over the argument to show whether usually been my pleasure to act, should have dential policy.
the power to remove exists or not. I think that risen in his place and denounced a measure The Senator says he would require him to subject has been sufliciently argued. But, sir, voted for by a majority of the Senate, by nearly take the oath. Does not the Senator from Ver if the President has not the authority to remove all his political friends, and which he himself mont know that there are hundreds of traitors during the recess of the Senate, as a general had once voted for, as political quackery, as in office to-day that have not taken the oath ? Il proposition, does the Senator deny that we may
give him that authority? I take issue with the Mr. KIRKWOOD. During the war, by spe there have been such cases. I did not recollect Senator from Vermont as to the authority of cial law, the President was authorized to sum them, but they are the exceptions; the general Congress in this respect. I insist that we may || marily dismiss officers of the Army.
rule is the other way, and the very fact that the President the power to remove Mr. TRUMBULL. If there was such a stat. the law provides a mode for trying incompein vacation by law, and wherever he does make ute, it is in confirmation of my argument, tent officers or officers guilty of malfeasance in a removal in vacation in pursuance of law and because it shows that Congress specially con office who are attached to the Army and Navy, makes an appointment in pursuance of law in ferred the authority upon the President. Per. goes upon the idea that without this authority vacation, it is proper we should pay the ap- haps there was a statute passed during the war the power to dismiss them summarily does not pointee; but because we by statute confer upon on the supposition that it might be necessary exist; and I am quite sure if the records are the President authority for cause to remove and at such a time for the President to have the searched there will be found to be very few appoint in vacation, does it therefore follow power summarily to dismiss and appoint ofli cases of the character alluded to by the Senthat without legislation he can remove and ap
ators from Maryland and Maine. Mr. Van point in vacation? Why, sir, we confer 'upon Mr. FESSENDEN. I suggest that there is Buren, it seems, exercised the power. the President this power to appoint officers by a statute of that kind. I have looked at it not aware that any President had done it, and creating the office. "We establish a new Depart. || within a day or two; but the authority was I apprehend that it will be found that it is of ment of the Government; we increase the num not conferred upon the President by that stat recent origin, and that no such power was ber of judges; we establish a judicial district; ute; it had been exercised by the President attempted to be exercised in the early history and how does the President get authority to before, with regard to striking the names of of the Government; and the general rule is appoint a judge or a marshal or an attorney? officers from the roll of the Army. He had unquestionably the other way. He gets it in pursuance of the law that creates been in the habit of doing it in special cases. The Senator from Vermont tells us it is an the office; it is in pursuance of an act of Con Mr. TRUMBULL. Had the President been || anomaly that a man may legally fill an office gress that he gets the power to make the appoint- || in the habit of dismissing them from office? and yet not be entitled to
Is it an anomments at all.
Mr. FESSENDEN. Yes; before that. aly? There is a bill pending on the table now Just so in regard to the removal and appoint Mr. JOHNSON. Certainly.
authorizing the appointment of commissioners ment of incumbents in office. We may provide
Mr. FESSENDEN. But that law gave par without any pay. They legally fill the office by a statute that for cause he may remove a ticular authority to it.
created by law, commissioners to go to Europe man from office during the vacation and sub Mr. TRUMBULL. Was not the power given without any pay at all. Is that an anomaly? stitute another in his place, and submit to the after trial by courts-martial?
Mr. POLAND. The Senator misunderstands Senate when the Senate convenes the question Mr. FESSENDEN. Generally it was; but my position. Where a man holds an office and of whether they will advise and consent to the there were some special cases where it was done the law makes provision for his payment, pronew appointment. Congress may go further. by the President himself.
vides what his pay shall be, it seems to me very They may authorize the President to appoint Mr. JOHNSON. The case of General Gra strange that we should undertake to provide and remove inferior officers without asking the tiot was one instance.
that he may hold the office and not have the advice and consent of the Senate, and we have
Mr. FESSENDEN. There were several compensation which the law provides. often done so. The Constitution expressly | instances in which the President exercised the MI. TRUMBULL. The law would not proauthorizes Congress by law to invest the ap power of striking the names of officers of the vide any compensation when we took it away, pointment of inferior officers either in the Pres Army from the rolls at once. So it was in the would it? Is the old law any better than the ident alone or in the judges of the courts or in Navy. I think there was a case recently ; my one which repeals it? Then the Senator from any of the heads of Departments; and in pur impression is that Captain Preble was removed Vermont takes this position, that we have a suance of this authority the appointments of from the Navy, dismissed the service.
right to establish an office and not establish any various minor oflicers all over the country have Mr. TRUMBULL. Was not that since this salary to it; but having established an office been vested in the President alone and heads act?
with a salary, we cannot take the salary a way. of Departments. Now, would it not be com Mr. FESSENDEN. No; before.
If that is satisfactory to him, he is entitled to petent to provide in one of these statutes, when Mr. ANTHONY. Was there not a court the benefit of all that that argument can give we give him the power of appointment without martial?
him. I do not think because we once attacha consulting us,
that he should not have the power Mr.JOHNSON. General Jackson dismissed salary to an office we are obliged to continue of removal without cause? one or two for sending a challenge.
the salary, any more than when we create an Mr. FESSENDEN. Will my friend allow Mr. TRUMBULL. Was there not a law ex office we are obliged to give a salary with it. If me to make a suggestion ?
pressly prohibiting the sending of challenges? | there is a former law giving a salary inconsistMr. TRUMBULL. Yes, sir.
Mr. JOHNSON. Of course there was ; but ent with this, of course this subsequent statute Mr. FESSENDEN. In the case of the there was no law giving the power to the Pres- | repeals it. Comptroller of the Currency we provided by ident to remove a man for that reason. Gen But the Senator tells us he has no knowllaw that he should not be removed without the eral Gratiot was dismissed by Mr. Van Buren edge that the President designs making any consent of the Senate. without any court-martial.
removals; he does not know that the President Mr. TRUMBULL. I thank my friend from Mr. TRUMBULL. I should like to inquire has any purpose of the kind. Well, sir, I have Maine for that suggestion. I recollect that of the Senator from Maryland if that power some knowledge that removals are being made there is such a provision, which was made, per has ever been conceded. It has been dis throughout the country. It is not proper to haps, in 1863 ; and the provision which it is cussed and denied since I have been a member speak here of removals which have been made now proposed to insert as an amendment to of the Senate. I mean the power to remove and are now pending in executive session ; but this bili also has a precedent the same year. at pleasure an Army or Navy officer.
if it was, I think I could bring to the notice of The Senator from Vermont has denounced it as Mr. JOHNSON. I know it has been denied, || the Senator quite a number of cases. But, sir, aggressive on the President, as inviting attack, but it has always been exercised.
outside of executive session, I have seen it as assailing him, whereas in 1863, when Con Mr. FESSENDEN. In a very few instances. stated in the newspapers of the country that gress was acting in harmony with the President, Mr. JOHNSON. I mean to say that in every the marshal of the western district of Pennsyl. there was attached to an appropriation bill case where the President thought there ought | vania has been removed, that the collector of the Army appropriation bill, I think-a pro to be a removal he has removed.
internal revenue in the district of Pittsburg has vision very similar to this, not going quite so Mr. TRUMBULL. I do not so understand been removed, that the postmaster in Pittsburg far, but providing that no officer appointed it. I understand the law provides for courts has been removed. Sir, I have heard of a numwithout the advice and consent of the Senate martial and trials to remove a military officer. ber of removals, which are also noticed in the to a vacancy to which their advice and consent Does the Senator from Maryland mean to say papers in my own State. Yes, sir, I have heard might have been obtained, should receive any that in every case where the President thought of a letter written to a man holding an insig. compensation until he was confirmed by the a man ought to be removed, instead of putting | nificant office in Illinois from one of the De. Senate. So, sir, this is no new proposition ; him upon trial, he has assumed to remove him partments, informing him that, having taken it is no new proposition in an appropriation || himself; that that is the general practice of part in a meeting which passed resolutions susbill; it is no new proposition in the law to deny the Government?
taining Congress, he would have an opportunity the authority of the President to remove from Mr. JOHNSON. No; I did not say that. to explain the matter. The Senator seems not office without the consent of the Senate. It Mr. TRUMBULL. Has not the practice to have heard of any of these things. was denied, as I am informed expressly, and been the other way in a large majority of cases, Now, sir, I have as much confidence in the as I recollect in 1863, in regard to the Comp- that the officer has been tried by a court-inar people as the Senator from Vermont. I do troller of the Currency.
tial or in some other way, and been dismissed not believe the people of this country are to be So the Senator from. Vermont is mistaken the service, if dismissed at all, in pursuance of corrupted by patronage; but I am opposed to as to the power of removal liaving always been the finding of a court? Does not the law pro fostering men for the very purpose of giving exercised by the President ad libitum, and I vide for that?
them the benefit of official position to defeat believe he is totally mistaken as to the exer Mr. FESSENDEN. That is done under the measures which I believe, and which the Sencise of this power in the removal of the officers Army regulations; but although that is the gen ator from Vermont has told you he believes, of the Army and the Navy; and I should like eral practice, yet, according to my recollection, essential to the best interests of the country, him to draw the distinction between them and there have been some instances where Presi This amendment having been adopted, I civil officers. No President, so far as I am dents have, without any court-martial, taken trust the Senate will not reconsider it. advised, ever undertook at will and without the responsibility of striking the names of not an original proposition with me. The Senauthority of law to appoint and dismiss officers officers from the rolls of the Army.
ator from Missouri first proposed an amend. of the Army and officers of the Navy.
Mr. TRUMBULL. I am bound to suppose ment to this appropriation bill which seemed
to me defective, and I aided in trying to
gress to attach these conditions. We have the force upon the President any provision of law fect it. This explains my connection with it. unlimited power over the public Treasury. No against his deliberate judgment unless we have I thought it was proper then ; I think so now; money can be drawn from the Treasury without the power to do it by the constitutional vote of and I think that after having adopted this an appropriation made by law, to which each two thirds of both Houses. We should not amendment by the deliberate vote of the Sen House must assent; and therefore the Senate | make the public necessities which demand that ate, if we now recall the bill and reconsider may, as a condition-precedent, impose terms certain Departments of the Government be the vote by which it was adopted, it will be upon the House of Representatives, or that supplied with public funds a reason for forcing virtually saying to the President of the United House may impose upon the Senate, or both upon the President a provision that might not States that the Senate is prepared to vote Houses may upon the President. The Constitu meet his sanction if it stood alone. It is imposmoney to pay men put into office for the very tion gives us that power; but I say it is a power sible, it seems to me, to combat this plain purpose of defeating the measures which we which ought never to be exercised, and these proposition. believe essential to the preservation of the Gov- | political conditions ought never to be attached But, sir, beyond that-and upon this point ernment and the perpetuity of our free institu to appropriation bills unless it is to accomplish | alone I rested my argument before I was tions, and put there, too, by displacing faithful some great overriding good which is greater | willing to meet the object embraced by the officers against whoin no complaint exists. I and higher than the evil of the defeat of an amendment of the Senator from Missouri; but am sorry if the Senator from Vermont cannot appropriation bill. That principle cannot be upon an examination it was found, and I think stand upon this position before the people of varied. We cannot attach qualifications or con very clearly proved, that the law of 1863 met Vermont. I regret that he feels he cannot ditions to these bills unless we seek to accom all the difficulty that he proposed to meet, and stand upon the position of refusing to pay men plish some overriding good that cannot be that was an attempt on the part of the Presiput into office at the sacrifice of men who are accomplished in any other way, and to accom dent to fill offices the vacancies in which occur discharging their whole duty to the Govern- | plish which we are willing to risk the defeat of || during the session of the Senate. The law of ment. Sir, if a man in office has been guilty the ordinary appropriations of the Government. 1863 provides for that case. If the President of any official act of omission or commission That is a principle which cannot be departed after the adjournment of the Senate under: the President may remove him, and his ap
and therefore, as a general rule, it is takes to fill an oflice the vacancy in which puintee, whoever he may be, is entitled to pay; never wise to attach to these bills which are occurred during the session of the Senate, he but if he has been guilty of no official delin intended for the support of the Government does it without the authority of the Constituquency whatever, and is removed by the Presi any conditions or qualifications of a political || tion. He has no power to fill vacancies which deni during the recess of the Senate simply for character. What is the consequence of it? occur during the session of the Senate, except the purpose of giving place to a person who The Executive may differ from Congress. It | by and with the advice and consent of the will do the behests of the President or of any. has been so in the past. Many times Congress Senate; and if he attempts in violation of the body else, except in the proper discharge of has differed from the President. Suppose that Constitution to exercise a power not conferred his official duty, I think he ought not to be | Congress exercising its power over the public by the Constitution, we are then perfectly juspaid till confirmed by the Senate; and I am money should attach conditions to appropria tified in withholding appropriations; indeed, willing to stand upon that position before the tion bills which are not agreed to by the Presi we should not do our duty unless we did with. country and the people of my own State. dent, what is the result? Revolution; either || hold the appropriations, because if we should
Mr. SHERMAN.* Mr. President, I am very the President will then be compelled in viola pay officers thus illegally appointed we should much gratified that the Senator from Vermont tion of the Constitution to seize upon the public consent to a violation of the Constitution on has felt it to be his duty to submit a motion to Treasury and pay the expenses of your Govern his part. But now in the case provided for reconsider the action of the Senate upon this ment, contrary to law and contrary to his oath || by this amendment there is no denial of the amendment, and I think that we ought to dis of office, or else he will have to suspend the power of removal, but a denial of the right of cuss the matter without the slightest political operations of the Government. Suppose this the officer to receive his money. The Constitufeeling. It is a question which may become amendment should lead to an open breach tion provides for two classes of appointments: important, far more iinportant than it appeared | between Congress and the President, what can one class where a vacancy occurs during the to be at the time it was first introduced by the he do? There is the Post Office Department session of the Senate; it must be filled by and Senator from Missouri.
which affects every man's house and home, with the advice and consent of the Senate; This amendment is attached to an appropria- || which carries his letters from his wife, from his the other is the case of a vacancy which occurs tion bill; it is a condition-precedent to the pay- || children, which transacts all his business of || during a recess of the Senate, and then the ment of any money for the support of the Post that character, which affects all the intimate President from the nature of things and by the Office Department during the next fiscal year. relations of life-are we to endanger the ordi express provision of the Constitution has the Unless the President is willing to assent to this nary appropriations for this great branch of the power of appointing a man to office to fill that proposition affecting his power to remove and public service by a mere political controversy vacancy, but the vacancy is only filled by such appoint to office this appropriation bill cannot between Congress and the President as to his an appointment until the end of the following pass. If he approves the bill, he approves it power of removing public officers?
session of the Senate. The officer thus apwith all the conditions and qualifications at I say that now is the time for us to consider pointed by the President is a legal officer. As tached to the appropriations. It is therefore this question before it goes further and before I said the other day there is no power conferred a condition to an ordinary appropriation bill, any such breach is made. It may be said that by the Constitution upon the President to reand unless he does approve it, it must receive the President will sign this bill with this con move any one from office. That power is only the sanction of two thirds of both branches of dition in it. I hope he will if it passes ; but || inferential. That power may be regulated by Congress or it cannot become a law; and in the suppose he should not do so, we shall then have | law. That power is not limited or restrained event of his disapproval we shall either be the question before us, and I prefer to meet in the least by the amendment of the Senator called upon to pass the bill hy a two-thirds
As a general rule to be applied in all from Illinois. The amendment does not say vote of both branches, or we shall be compelled cases, both in this and all other Administra- that a Union man shall not be removed from to abandon it and to lose the appropriations for tions, I am opposed to attaching conditions to office and a rebel put in. That seems to be the next fiscal year for the Post Office Depart the appropriation bills. When Mr. Buchanan the proposition he debated; but that is not the ment.
was in power, when Mr. Pierce was in power proposition he has submitted to us. During the short period of my service in Con we had similar questions up and I always op that no man shall be removed from office gress I have passed through three or four scenes posed any such efforts.
except for such and such causes; that is, a man of this kind. Once the arbitrary will of one I say, then, that we ought to meet at the out who during this whole war has enjoyed the man in this body defeated the Post Office appro set every effort to attach these political or dis honors and emoluments of office shall not be priation bill to the serious detriment of the pub- || puted problems to an appropriation bill. There turned out and a loyal Union soldier put in. lic service and to the severe loss of the Treas is no excuse, let me say to my fellow-Senators, That is one effect of his amendment. ury. That was the case of the defeat of the for this proposition at this particular time, be Mr. TRUMBULL. Except by and with the Post Office appropriation bill in 1859 by Robert cause we in Congress, representing the great advice and consent of the Senate. Toombs in the Senate. On another occasion, Union party of the United States, supported, Mr. SHERMAN. That is after the session last year, by a political amendment attached as I believe we are, by the great mass of the is over. If there is a man who has held an office by the House of Representatives to the miscel- || people, probably ninety-nine out of every hun- || during all the years of the war, and received its laneous appropriation bill under the lead of a dred of those who sent us here, have the power | emoluments, he shall not be turned out and a prominent gentleman in that House, an amend. to pass the laws we think necessary, without | Union soldier without a leg or an arm put in, ment which the Senate disapproved of and attaching them as qualifications to an appro or if put in that soldier shall not draw his pay which the House sought to force upon the Sen- | priation bill. We can pass any law which meets until the Senate meets and passes upon the ate, the result was the defeat of the miscella the sanction of our political party, by the reasons for the removal, and then if the Senate neons appropriation bill to the very serious loss requisite vote, either of a majority, or, in case does not think the removal is sufficiently justiof the Treasury and very great inconvenience of a clear proposition, by a two-thirds vote. fiable by the reasons stated, he shall not have to the different Departments of the Govern There is, therefore, no occasion, in order to any pay at all. That is the effect of this proment. There is another case where a condi- || accomplish any political object, to attach this vision. This, therefore, does not reach the tion proposed to be appended to an appro as a condition to an appropriation bill. If, purpose contemplated by the Senator from Illipriation bill caused great injury to the public however, only a majority of both Houses of nois. His purpose, I know, is to prevent the credit.
Congress could agree upon any bill that might | President from removing men for their politiIn view of these circumstances I always hes be proposed, that shows that we ought not to cal opinions; that we all know to be the itate when conditions are proposed to appropri- || attach that opinion of a majority of each House | purpose; but the President has, by the very ation bills. I do not doubt the power of Con to an appropriation bill, because we should not terms of the amendment, the power to remove.
All he has got to do is to give us a reason, too, he must have a power over the diplomatic who placed him in his high position, and apwhether that reason is wise or unwise, susi corps in a great measure. Those are officers | point rebels to office. cient or insuflicient. He may give us a reason, l appointed to represent our country abroad, Mr. TRUMBULL. I trust the Senator did and turn us off with a reason. Reasons are as holding confidential relations with the Secre not understand me to say that the President plenty as blackberries. He may say he removes tary of State, and therefore the power over would appoint rebels. I said they might be à man because he is a civilian and the person those officers ought not to be limited or con appointed, and we had a right to provide that he appoints was a soldier.
trolled or crippled by Congress. But there they should not be paid ; but I do not think I Mr. TRUMBULL. The Senator does not are classes of officers who ought to hold their || said that the President would appoint rebels remember the phraseology of the amendment | offices independent of the power of removal to office. in regard to that point. It is for an act done || by the President-assessors, collectors, post
Mr. SHERMAN. I do not wish to extend or oinitted in violation of his duty.
masters, and cther officers who really may the language. Mr. SHERMAN. “For acts done or omitted exercise political power; that ought by the law
Mr. TRUMBULL. But I understand that in violation of the duties of his office." Take to be secured from unjust and arbitrary re. we are asked to repeal the test oath so that the case again which I formerly put: suppose | moval; and there is nothing in the Constitu. rebels can take office. an officer discharging the ordinary routine of tion to prevent Congress from passing a law on Mr. SHERMAN. There were certain cases his duties, say a clerk in one of the Depart the subject, securing those officers in the dis- | in which men who had taken part in this re. ments, has enjoyed that office until after the charge of their duties.
bellion were appointed to office. They were adjournment of the Senate, there is no specific Mr. President, Congress has power over this | appointed by the Postmaster General and act to be alleged against him, but it is thought | subject much more ample than is generally the Secretary of the Treasury. The matter to be desirable to make a place for a Union | supposed. Congress may prescribe that the was referred to us in all cases, and we had a officer, not a rebel
judges of the Supreine Court or heads of De- || special message on the subject. Mr. CLARK. The clerks are not touched partments or courts of law may make a great Mr. TRUMBULL. How was it with the by this.
variety of appointments. The provision of the provisional governors ? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, take the case of an Constitution is that “Congress may by law Mr. SHERMAN. They are not officers assessor or a collector or a consul or a diplo vest the appointment of such inferior officers under the law; they are simply agents; and matic minister, and the thousands of officers as they think proper in the President alone, in I believe it was so held by the Judiciary Comcovered by this amendment. Cabinet oflicers the courts of law, or in the heads of Depart. || mittee. They are not officers under the law; cannot be removed and anybody put in, rebel ments."
they are not officers whose nominations are to or loyal, except at the risk of not getting any Now, who is an inferior officer? Is a col be submitted to us; they are simply agents for pay in case the Senate disapproves the reasons lector an inferior officer or a superior officer ? the time being, provisional in their character, for the removal. This amendment does not Is an assessor an inferior or a superior officer? I may say like spies or other persons employed prevent the President from removing any man The Coustitution says that Congress may by || in case of war, not officers in any sense of the he chooses, and he may give us a reason or not law vest the appointment of such inferior offi- || word. just as pleases; the removal is complete and cers as they think properin the President alone, Mr. FESSENDEN. They are military perfect by the will of the President; so that the in the courts of law, or in the heads of Depart- || officers or nothing. amendincnt accomplishes nothing. It is true,
There is no limit in this relative char Mr. SHERMAN. They are military agents the man who takes the office cannot draw his acter of officers except the wise discretion of and employés, but not officers. But waiving pay nntil the Senate meets; but do you punish Congress.
that question, two of the Departments of the the President, do you cripple his
you Mr. JOHNSON. The fair inference is that Government have appointed subordinate offilimit his control over the public officers? Do all not named are inferior officers.
cers who may be called “rebels." The Sec. you accomplish what you desire to accomplish? Mr. SHERMAN. As the Senator from retary of the Treasury has appointed certain Not at all.' You may punish some poor devil Maryland says, it is a fair inference that all of them subordinate agents to collect the rere. who is compelled to exercise the duties of an officers not named in the clause of the Consti. mue, and the Postmaster General has appointed office and not get any pay for it; but you do tution, "embassadors, other public ministers, a few probably as postmasters; but it has been not hurt the President or hurt his feelings. The and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and wisely checked by Congress, and I believe the result will be that good men, poor men, may all other officers of the United States whose || practice has now been abandoned. I think, be deterred from accepting office under these appointments are not herein otherwise pro- | therefore, there is no danger of such a contest conditions, while bad inen or rich men may be | vided for,'' are inferior officers.
as we now seem to anticipate by this amendindifferent to the salary attached to the office. Mr. HENDERSON. Madison says that a ment. If there is such a danger, we have the I say, therefore, with due deference to the Sen Cabinet minister is not an inferior officer. power to guard against it by a law. If this ator from Illinois, that the amendment does Mr. SHERMAN. I take it that exercising | power shall be attempted to be exercised durnot accomplish the purpose that he has in view; common sense in the construction of the clause, ing the next summer after we adjourn; if the it does not limit or control the power of the no one would say that Cabinet ministers, who President of the United States shall seek to President over the public officers, but simply are officers of the highest grade, were inferior use the public money and the public offices aggravates a controversy which may never arise. officers; but with regard to the host of subor for the purpose of breaking down any delib.
Now, sir, there is a way, I think, in which dinate officers, including postmasters, I have no erate sentiment of the people of the United this matter can be accomplished-not by an doubt of the power of Congress to say that the States, not only would the people of the Uni. amendment to an appropriation bill; not by a power to appoint all the postmasters of the ted States be just and true enough to punish limitation of tbis character ; but by the exer United Siates shall rest in the courts of law or him, but we have it in our power next winter cise of the power of Congress over the dura-. || with the heads of Departments. There can be wlien we meet again to properly guard against tion and term of the various public officers. no doubt of it; so that our power over this such things in the future. Although it has been somewhat questioned at subject is substantially unlimited, and thus we Let us not anticipate this danger. Let us not different times since the foundation of the Gov. have the right to control and check the power guard against it until it occurs. Let us not inernment, yet, as I have said before, I do not of removal. Why, sir, we declare by law that vite a controversy until it is upon us; and then believe it las ever been successfully contro an Army officer sball not be deprived of his we have ample and complete power over the verted that Congress may regulate the dura commission except by court-martial and trial whole subject. Let us not fear a foreign ention and term of a public officer, may limit the peers; and the same is true of an officer emy, and arm our militia until he declares war power of the President to remove him, may of the Navy. . So of the various officers under against us and invades our country, and then declare that such and such an officer shall not the steamboat law, who are removed by the we have the material within ourselves to repel be removed except for such and such a cause. action of the judge of a court, and the super the assault. I say Congress need fear no con. But a bill of that kind must be made with vising inspector, and a kind of a board that is troversy with the President. He may appoint many discriminations, must be made after much organized; and so of the Comptroller of the here and there persons whom we do not ap.
There are certain officers that the PresiCurrency.' Congress have repeatedly imposed prove; but we have the power over such apdent ought to have the absolute power of limitations on the power of removal, and there || pointments in the Senate, and therefore I am removing; I can name Cabinet officers; it is no difficulty in this Congress providing such opposed to seeking a controversy of this kind would be intolerable that the President should a limitation. I only say that the exercise of until it is forced upon us. be expected to carry on the business of this the power in this form is objectionable as an I have already said more than I intended on great Government with a Cabinet council over amendment to an appropriation bill; that this this subject. It is one of those unpleasant whose members he had not the power of re particular proposition does not meet the evil questions that it is difficult to argue. I prefer moval, the complete and absolute power. For complained of; and that on the other hand we to rest my opposition to this proposition solely that reason, hostile political parties have often have a reinedy and a power to control remov. upon the ground that it is unwise to attach such confirmed the Cabinet ministers of a President als by the President furnished us by the Con a provision as this as a condition-precedent to of opposite politics, on the ground that the stitution, and which may now be exercised with any appropriation bill. President from the very necessity of the case great ease by this Congress if they choose to Mr. STEWART obtained the floor. must have the pawer of removing Cabinet min set themselves to work upon it.
Mr. HENDERSON. If the Senator from isters and appointing such as he chooses. He From all the developments that have been Nevada will excuse me, I should like to ask must administer those great offices through his made up to this time, I do not believe that we the Senator from Ohio a question. personal friends, and no party would require have the right to say, as the honorable Senator Mr. STEWART. I will yield, if it will not him to appoint any but personal friends around from Illinois says, that rebels will be appointed take too long. him to these great offices. He must, therefore, to fill the offices of the Government; that the Mr. HENDERSON. I shall not occupy have power over the Cabinet ministers. So, Il President will turn his back upon those men much time. The Squator from Obio says we