your table, I wish to make a statement to the Senate in regard to a bill that is pending between the two Houses on an amendment. It is the bill (S. No. 352) to authorize the temporary supply of vacancies in the Executive Departments. It belongs to that class of bills which ought to be passed early that it may go to the Executive. It is pending now on an amendment of the House of Representatives, and in the Judiciary Committee we have agreed to the House amend. ment with a slight amendment which we have recommended. I do not think it will take three minutes to dispose of it. I was very anxious yesterday to dispose of it, but the Senator from Vermont (Mr. Edmunds] wanted to look at it. Mr. IIOWARD. Let us take a vote on this bill first. Mr. TRUMBULL. If you will lay it aside for a monient after it is taken up in order to bave this amendment disposed of I will not object. Mr. HOWARD. Very well. Mr. CATTELL. I must object to taking up the bill of the Senator from Michigan if it is to supplant the bill which I have moved that the Senate proceed to the consideration of. It is a bill that ought to be disposed of. I have been instructed by the Committee on Finance to insist upon the consideration of the bill. I am sorry ever to interfere with a Senator, but I am constrained, as a matter of duty, to do it on the present occasion. Mr. HOWARD. I have this to say in reply: if I can get this bill up and read that will sat. isfy me for the present, and I will throw no more embarrassment in the way of other gentlemen ; but I want to put this bill in a way so that at the proper time I can have it passed. Mr. CATTELL. Will the Senator from Michigan give way to this bill afterward ? Mr. HOWARD. After the bill is read I will yield. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques. tion is on the motion of the Senator from Michigan. The motion was not agreed to. Mr. TRUMBULL. Now I move that the Senate proceed to the consideration of the amendment to the bill which I have indicated, which I am sure will take but a moment or two. I assure the Senator from New Jersey that it will take no time scarcely, and it is important that it should go back to the House. The motion was agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to consider the amendment of the House of Representatives to tbe bill (S. No. 352) to authorize the temporary supply of va. cancies in the Executive Departments. The amendment of the House was to strike out all of the original bill afier the enacting, clause and to insert in lieu thereof the following: That in case of the death, resignation, absence, or sickness of the head of any executive Department of the Government, the first or solo assistant thereof shall, unless otherwise directed by the President of the United States, as is hereinafter provided, perform the duties of such head until a successor be appointed, or such absence or sickness shall cease. SEC. 2. And be it further enacted, That in case of the death, resignation, absence, or sickness of the chief of any burcau, or of any officer thercof whose appointment is not in the head of any executive Department, the deputy of such chief or such officer. or if there bo no deputy then the chief clerk of such bureau, shall, unless otherwise directed by the President of the United States, as is hereinafter provided, perform the duties of such chief or of such officer until a successor be appointed or such absence or sickness shall cease. SEC. 3. And be it further enacted. That in any of the rases herein before mentioned it shall be lawful for the President of the United States, in his discretion, to authorize and direct the head of any other executivo Departinent or other ollicer in cither of those Departments whose appointinent is, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, vested in the President, to perform the duties of the office vacant as aforesaid until a successor be appointed. or the sickness or absence of the incumbent shall cease: Provideil, That nothing in this act shall authorize the supplying as aforesaid a vacancy for a longer period than ten days when such vacancy shall be occasioned by death or resignation, and the officer so performing the duties of the otlico temporarily rilcanishall not be entitled to extra compensation therefor. SEC. 4. And be it further enacted. That all acts here tofore passed on the subject of temporarily supply- consideration of the bill (S. No. 513) to pro- lificates, for the purpose of redeeming and pound interest notes, the pending question discharge the duties of his office, and all laws incon being on the amendment of Mr. TRUMBULL, to sistent with the provisions of this act be, and the strike out all of the bill after the enacting samo are hereby, repealed. clause and in lieu thereof to iusert : The Committee on the Judiciary reported an That for the purpose of redeeming and retiring amendment to the House amendinent, to insert the remainder of the compound-interest notes, savat the end of the third section the following: ing the unnecessary payiuent of interest, and reducAnd provided also, That in ease of the death, resig ing the public debt, the Secretary of the Treasury is nation, absence, or sickness of the Commissioner of berehy authorized and directed to inake sale of Patents, the duties of sail Commissioner, until a suc $10,000,000 of the surplus coin in the Treasury of the cessor shall be appointed or such absence orsickness United States, on the first vioaday of the month of shall cease, shall devolve upon one of the examiners August next, and on the first Monday of every month therealtor, till the amount of coin in the Treasury, in chief in said oflice, to be designated by the President. exclusive of that for wbich gold certificates of deposis shall have been given, shall be reduced to the sun Mr. TRUMBULL. There is another slight of $10,000,001), the sale to be made in manner fo!amendment before that, to insert the words lowing: the Secretary shall give five days' public notice in one daily newspaper published in each of except the Commissioner of Patents” after the cities of Washington and New York, that sertlcd the word "thereof,” in line three of section proposals for $10,000,000 of gold coin will be received two. at the oflice of the Assistant Treasurer in the city Mr. CONKLING. That is really part of of New York till three o'clock p. m, of the day appointed for the sale, Such proposals shall bo the same amendment. addressed to the Assistant Treasurer at New York, Mr. TRUMBULL. Yes, sir. and shall be opened by him in the presence of such The amendment was agreed to. persons as may choose to attend at the time desig. nated in the notice. No proposals shall be received The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques. unless accompanied by a certificate of deposit in the Treasury of the United States of tive per cent.in eurtion now is on concurring in the amendment of rency of the amount of coin bid for in such prothe House as amended. posal, which shall be received in part pay for the Mr. WILLIAMS. We ought to know what coin bid for, in case the bid is accepted, and it not that is. accepted, shall be returned to the party who inarlo the bid. Payments may be received for coin in curMr. TRUMBULL. It is printed and on rency or compound-interest notes with the interest accrued thereon. Wben compound-interest notes Mr. EDMUNDS. If there is no special are received they shall be canceled by the Secretary of the Treasury, and with the currency received he objection, before this bill passes I should like shall purchase and cancel any interest-bearing into offer an amendment. debtedness of the United States, paying t.crefor not Mr. TRUMBULL. I do not think there is exceeding its current market value at the time. None but the highest bid shall be accepted for gold; any objection to the amendment the Senator and in case of difereut bids at the same rate, suid from Vermont wishes to offer. I think it bids shall be accepted only pro rata; and the Assistmeans that now. ant Treasurer, with the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, shall have the right to reject all or Mr. EDMUNDS. So do I: but we have had any bids if deemed by him less toun the fair valuo so much discussion about these loose and of gold at the time. latitudinarian powers that I wish to offer an Mr. TRUMBULL. When the morning hour amendment to come in at the end of the second expired some days ago, I was addressing the section, and which will read as follows: Senate upon the subject of that amendment. And no appointment, designation, or assignment I shall not repeat this morning what I said on otherwise than as herein provided in the cases inentioned in the first and second sections of this act that occasion, and will say nothing more, as I shall be made, except to fill a vacancy happening wish to take up no time unnecessarily; but I during the recoss of ibe Senate. simply beg to call the attention of the Senate The amendment was agreed to. to what it is, as there are some Senators now The amendment of the House of Representa. || present who were not here on that occasion, tives, as amended, was concurred in. and it may have passed out of the minds of others. The object of my amendment is to dispose of the gold in the Treasury. I presented tables port: when up before showing that the average The comunittee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two llouses on the bill (HI. R. No. 314) to amount of gold per month in the Treasury incorporato tho “Washington Target-Shooting Asso du the last year exceeded eighty-three milciation" in the District of Columbia, having met, lion dollars, beside about about twenty million after full and frco conference have agreed to recom- dollars for which certificates of deposit had mend, and do recommend, to their respective Houses, as follows: been issued. I also showed that the amount That the House recede from its disagreement to the of currency in the Treasury during the same amendment of the Senate to the said bill, and agree to the samo with an amenilment, as follows: period averaged something over thirty-four Strike out of said amendment, after the word "pro million dollars, and that the two together, the vided,” in the first line, the following words : The gold being turned into currency at its market amount of real property or estate to be lield by the sajil association shall not exceed in valuo the sun price, would make a sum of more than one of $50,000; and provided further that." hundred and fifty million dollars which lay in the JAMES HARLAN. Treasury idle during the whole of the last year. The tables which I have also show that the JOHN D. BALDWIN, the previous year was about the same; so that during the last two years there has been in the Managers on the part of the House. Treasury of the United States at all times from The report was concurred in. eighty to one hundred millions of coin lying idle, and from thirty to forty millions of curTEMPORARY LOAN CERTIFICATES. rency, which I undertook to show was very bad Mr. CATTELL. I now move to proceed to economy; and I have proposed an amendment the consideration of the bill (S. No. 543) to to this bill the object of wbich is to dispose of provide for a further issue of temporary loan this gold. The amendment is in print and on certificates, for the purpose of redeeming and the tables of Senators. It provides for dispos. retiring the remainder of the outstanding com- ing of this gold in the city of New York at the pound interest notes. rate of $10,000,000 per month until the amount Mr. POMEROY. I do not like to oppose is reduced to $40,000,000, not to be reduced these bills from the Committee on Finance, below that, and the gold to be sold on propobut they have every day after one o'clock, and sals, and to be awarded to those who give the they will have during the whole session; but highest price for it, after giving five days' notice for them to occupy the morning hour, and then in the papers of New York and Washington every day from one o'clock out, seems to me to city, so as to have the benefit of this gold. If be a little too much. the gold which has been in the Treasury for the The motion was agreed to ; and the Senate, last two years bad been sold and used by the as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the Government, it woald have saved the Government more than $10,000,000. It seems to me and the proceeds applied to the payment of our estimates, both for import duties and in. there is no object in keeping the money there; the public debt, surely it would be the part of ternal tax. This has been largely the case since at least, I know of none. No financial policy wisdom to apply this surplus to the reduction the close of the war, so much so that estimates has been adopted which requires this money to of the debt upon which we are paying six per made to about cover current expenses and inbe kept in the Treasury. cent. gold interest. This proposition is so terest on the public debt have so far exceeded Mr. CATTELL. Mr. President, I listened || simple it does not admit of argument. Why, as to furnish a surplus of some three huudred with attention to the remarks of the Senator | sir, we are issuing bonds almost daily in ex- millions to be applied to the reduction of the from Ilinois when he addressed the Senate change for the seven-thirties, with interest at public debt. But it would be unsafe and unwise last week opposition to the bill under con- six per cent. in gold. Why not use the surplus, in the face of the reductions we have made on sideration, and am surprised at his hostility to if we have any, to take up some of these notes the tax list to depend upon our receipts to pay a measure so obviously advantageous to the at the market rate, and accept a three per the $30,000,000 of compound-interest notes Government. cent. currency loan to retire the compound- which fall due between this and 15th October, The provisions of the bill are so simple, its interest notes. The interest on $25,000,000 || and of course must be paid. purpose so obvious, and the advantage to the at six per cent. gold, estimating the premium I submit, then, Mr. President, that the proGovernment so apparent, that I am at a loss to at forty per cent., the present rate, would be || posed loan is the simplest, easiest, and cheapaccount for the opposition of the Senator from $2,100,000 in currency, while the interest on est form of providing for these maturing obligaIllinois. The entire question, and the only $25,000,000 at three per cent. currency would tions, and trust that the Senate will disagree to one involved, is whether the Government, be but $750,000, thus making an annual saving | the amendment offered by the Senator from owing as it does something over two thousand of $1,350,000. We have already, in the form Illinois as impracticable and pass the bill as million dollars, for nearly all of which it is of these temporary loan certificates, placed it came from the committee. As I stated on a paying six per cent. interest in gold, shall || $50,000,000, and when these $25,000,000 are previous occasion, the Committee on Finance accept a loan of $25,000,000 at three per cent. added the annual saving of interest on the are unanimously in favor of the bill, and it is currency, thus reducing the interest on that $75,000,000, as compared with our six per | warmly approved by the Secretary of the Treasamount more than one half. cent. gold loans, will be $4,050,000. Has the ury and the Comptroller of the Currency. Now, Mr. President, if there is one subject | Senator from Illinois any objection to this Mr. TRUMBULL. Mr. President, I cannot which more than any other is engaging the saving of over four million dollars annually, || permit the manifest fallacy of the statement attention of the American people, and chal- or does the arithmetic he uses give a different of the Senator from New Jersey to go unchal. lenging the consideration of both statesmen result? lenged. It is a most remarkable way of stating and politicians, it is how the Government can, I submit, therefore, Mr. President, that even a balance in the Treasury to compute all the while maintaining its faith with the public cred. if we have a surplus in the Treasury it does payments that will have to be made out of the itor, reduce the interest on the public debt, and not make against the proposition to accept a Treasury and say nothing about the receipts. thereby lighten the burdens of taxation. This loan at three per cent., which may be applied The Senator from New Jersey tells us that we has been a fruitful theme for discussion in to the payment of bonds upon which we are are liable to pay $7,000,000 for Alaska ; that Congress and out of Congress, and it has been || paying more than twice as high a rate of there is a maturing indebtedness of the United declared to be the duty of Congress to work in interest. States which we may be called upon to pay. this direction by the great political party with But have we this large surplus of coin of Mr. CATTELL. It is paid. which the Senator and myself affiliate. which the Senator speaks now in the Treas. Mr. TRUMBULL. That we have to pay I commend the fifth article of the Chicago | ury? If the Senate will give me their atten. interest on the debt. Surely we do. We would platform to the consideration of the Senator tion I think I shall be able to show that the not want this gold if there were none of these from Illinois. It reads: Senator has not been as careful as he should obligations. But did the Senator tell us how 5. The national debt, contracted as it has been for be when he deals with figures as connected much gold we were receiving? He told us the preservation of the Union for all timo to come, with the national finances; and I cannot con- he was afraid, in consequence of the reducshould be extended over a fair period for redemp- sent that his statement shall go to the country tion of the internal revenue taxes, that our tion, and it is the duty of Congress to reduce the rate of interest thereon whenover it can possibly be without correction. The Senator proceeds upon receipts would be less. What has that to do done. the assumption that we have something over with the receipts from customs? Did the Sen. And I desire to say in this connection that | eighty millions of gold in the Treasury belong. ator from New Jersey tell us that the daties while I hold it to be the first duty of the Gov- ing to the United States. Now, what are the had been reduced ? He did not say a word ernment to maintain at all hazards the faith of || facts in the case? I read from a statement about that. I stated the other day, and the the nation and meet all its obligations to the prepared for me by the Secretary of the Treas- official report of the Secretary of the Treasury public creditor, not only according to the let- ury himself on Friday last, which is as follows: will show the facts which I state, that the reter, but the spirit of the laws under which they Amount of gold in the Treasury July 1, 1868..$99,914,105 | ceipts from customs for the year ending June were contracted, I also hold that it is the From which deduct 30, 1867, were upward of $176,000,000 in bounden duty of Congress to avail itself of all Interest payable July 1, 1868. 31,000,000 Bonds of 1818 maturing July 1, 1868. ..... 6,893,441 gold. What does the Senator from New Jer. honorable means to reduce the rate of interest Gold certificates..... 17,678,610 sey propose to do with that? I stated that by negotiating, if possible, a loan at a lower during the last year, for which we had full rerate, as is proposed in the funding bill of my $55,572,081 ports, as shown by the report of the Secretary friend from Obio, by exchanging the five Leaving a balance July 1......... .$14,342,024 of the Treasury in his last annual report, there twenty bonds, with the consent of the holder, Now, if you deduct also from this amount were received in gold from customs for the year for a longer bond with more distinct and deti. the $7,000,000 for Alaska it would reduce the ending June 30, 1867; the report for the year nite terms as the equivalent for a lower rate of amount of coin in the Treasury to about thirty- || ending June 30, 1868, in full I bave not seen; interest, or by any other method consistent seven millions, a sum below that to which the but that is the report made to us at the with the perfect maintenance of the public faith Senator from Illinois proposes by his amend- commencement of the present sesssion of Conand honor. ment to reduce it. Under this statement will gress-$176,417,810 88. What does the SenAnd yet when the Finance Committee brings not the Senator from Illinois admit that his ator from New Jersey propose to do with that? to the Senate a feasible proposition to convert amendment would prove a poor dependence Mr. CATTELL. I answer the gentleman a debt upon which we are paying six per cent. for providing $30,000,000 to meet a maturing just here. The constant practice of the Seecompound interest into a three per cent. cur- obligation of the Government. retary of the Treasury is to sell the gold down rency loan, tbe astute Senator from Illinois Beside the currency in the Treasury on the to a point which he thinks is safe and convert objects, and expresses his surprise that so 1st July was but $27,377,751, quite low enough it into currency and use it for current ex. important a bill should be called up in the when we consider the magnitude of the Treas- penses. Further, while I am on my feet, let morning hour. Is the Senator from Illinois ury operations, and the fact that we owe me say to the Senator that the receipts of opposed to the Government taking money at $10,000,000 payable on demand and liable to gold from duties were only about one haif for three per cent. if it can get it, and reducing to be called for any day. the month of June, 1868, what they were for that extent the loans upon which we are pay- Moreover, we have at this session of Con- | June, 1867. The receipts have fallen off and ing six per cent. in gold ? gress made very important reductions of in- have been fulling off, and the probabilities are Now, the question of how much or how ternal revenue taxes. We have taken off the that they will continue to do so. The Secre little balance shall be held in the Treasury, so tax on cotton, and also on all manufactures, tary of the Treasury told me that you could largely discussed by the Senator, has no bear- making an estimated reduction of some fifty not compute at the extreme the income nos ing upon this-bill. That is entirely a different or sixty million dollars; and although we ex- at more than from ten to twelve millions per question, one which I am aware is a source of pect some increase from other sources the month, great distress to the honorable Senator, and I amount to be received from internal revenue in Mr. TRUMBULL. I have a little informasincerely wish he could obtain relief in some the next fiscal year is somewhat problematical, |tion on that subject. I stated what the reforin. But the Senator will find that there and we ought not, therefore, run the Treasury | ceipts from customs were for the fiscal year are differences of opinion on this question too close. ending June 30, 1867. The Secretary in his which seems so clear to him, even in this I do not, however, sympathize with the views report gave us one quarter's receipts during Chamber, and it ought not to be mixed up with entertained by many that we shall have a the last fiscal year. The receipts from customs a proposition such as that now before the deficit at the end of the next fiscal year. The for the quarter ending September 30, 1807, Senate. development of our great country is so rapid were $48,081,907 61; so that the receipis But suppose, for the sake of the argument, and its resources so immense, the enterprise were much larger that quarter of the fiscal year that we are holding more coin in the Treasury and energy of our people so wonderful, that ending June 30, 1868, than they were the yes: thau is wise, that the surplus ought to be sold our receipts are almost uniformly in excess of before. rate. notes. a Mr. CONKLING. That would be $192,- || public debt; and I do not see any project || believe, for the consideration of the Senate of 000,000 a year. offered that looks better than this. We have, the United States. Mr. TRUMBULL. Yes; that would be I believe, about one hundred million dollars Mr. MORTON. I desire to offer a substi$192,000,000 for the year if it kept on at that lying in the Treasury idle. We have certainly | tute for the amendment of the Senator fronc But the Senator from New Jersey says had about that amount there lying idle for the Illinois, if it is in order, in these words : the receipts were very small for last June. Pos- last three years. That does not appear to me That the surplus gold pow in the Treasury, and sibly they may have been. I have not those to be wisdom. It is not the way an individual such as shall accrue during the present and next figures before me, but it appears from the last would manage his own affairs. An individual fiscal year. shall be reserved and set apart for the redemption and payment of the legal-tender notes. official report to which I had access that we whose credit was not very good, and who wished were receiving duties at the rate of $192,000,- to restore it and get it on a proper basis, would Mr. CONKLING. Allow me to ask a single 000 a year in gold during the last fiscal year || begin by paying every surplus dollar that he question, that I may understand this amendthat ended only a few days since. Certainly had to his creditors, thereby convincing them ment. The Senate having, by the aid of the vote during the first quarter of that year we received of his honesty and bis belief in his own ability of the honorable Senator from Indiana, promore than forty-eight millions. The Senator, to pay his debts. If we sell ten millions of bibited the Secretary of the Treasury from retirwhen I ask him what is to be done with this gold per month, as proposed by the Senatoring any more legal-tender notes, if the gold is money, says the Secretary is to sell it. Well, from Illinois, we shall pay off with it fourteen set apart for the purpose of that retirement I want him to sell it down to $40,000,000 millions of our debt, taking gold at an average under this amendment, I should like to know My amendment would do no harm, let me say of about forty per cent. premium. In place what will become of it in fact? to the Senator from New Jersey, if there is no of that we suffer this money to remain idle in The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendgold more than is required. the Treasury, in the vain hope, as I believe, ment is in order now as an amendment to the Mr. CATTELL. You do not provide for that men who are now getting six per cent. for amendment of the Senator from Illinois. the payment of the $30,000,000 of compound the obligations of the Government which they Mr. MORTON. I offer it as such. I will hold, will give up the right to demand six per only say that we now hold in the Treasury a Mr. TRUMBULL. I think you will find cent. and take three per cent. large surplus of gold. The object of bolding enough to sell. The Senator from New Jersey I object to all these expedients. They are it is not expressed by law. Let us say by law did not tell us what the receipts for July were. like the constitutional drunkard trying to cure that this surplus of gold and the gold which We had eighty-three millions of gold on the himself by taking a little each day. The only shall accrue in the next year or two shall be 1st day of July belonging to the Government. cure for him is to leave off immediately. The held for the purpose of redeeming the legalIf any of it has gone out since, it has been only cure for our troubles is for us to get back tender notes, and for no other purpose. Such paid since this report, which was made by to a regular system and not resort to these a declaration in itself, in my opinion, will the Secretary of the Treasury at my instance expedients. It would have been better, in my knock down the premium on gold from ten to within a few days. opinion, if the Committee on Finance had given twenty per cent. at once. Mr. CATTELL. That was made up to June us a general system of finance, one which would Mr. CONKLING. Does the Senator mean 1, I think. have recommended itself to the common sense that it shall be held, and that at the same time Mr. TRUMBULL. No, sir; made up to of everybody here, and which would have con- we shall retain on the statute-book a prohibiJuly 1, and if any money has been paid, if vinced the country that we were going to do tion against the cancellation of legal tenders ? any thirty millions have been paid for interest, | something toward paying our debts. I do not Mr. MORTON. I am opposed to the canit is since the 1st of July. believe that except in a few cases anybody will cellation of legal tenders as that has been Mr. CATTELL. It was not due till the 1st | give up an obligation of the Government draw. done; but, as I said the other day, I am in of . ing six per cent. interest for a certificate bear- favor of this Government fixing a time in the Nr. RUMBULL. We all know it has been ing but three per cento There are a few cases future when we shall redeen the legal-tender very much the custom to anticipate the interest where it will be done. Banks that want to hold notes in gold and resume specie payments, and and to pay it out before the 1st day of July. I these certificates as part of their reserve will I am in favor of reserving the gold now in the do not know whether any of the interest was do it because in that way they get three per Treasury and that which is to accrue in the paid in this particular instance betore the 1st cent. upon their surplus capital, and it will be ordinary way as a surplus for that purpose, the day of July; but on the 1st day of July, very convenient for some of the banks to use time to be designated hereafter when the Govaccording to this official report, there were these three per cent. certificates. It will have ernment will begin the work of redemption $82,235,465 95 of gold coin in the Treasury but little effect beyond here and there a bank and resume specie payments. belonging to the Government, and $17,000,000 | that will be glad to use them. Mr. HOWE. Mr. President, I am inclined more for which certificates of deposit had As I have said frequently, I would much to vote for the amendment offered by the Senbeen issued. In round numbers, there were rather leave this whole business until we come ator from Illinois. I am not prepared to dis. $100,000,000 of gold in the Treasury ou the back next winter. Let us go before the country cuss the question very satisfactorily to myself 1st day of July last. on no new questions, allowing us to devote our how much coin we ought to keep in the TreasWhat do you want to keep $40,000,000 of whole time to convince our constituents that the ury; but it has seemed to me that a prudent gold in the Treasury at all for, except to guard country is in a condition to be reconstructed, Administration ought to be able to calculate against a contingency? As I said the other | if we do our duty, relying also for ourselves their wants a good deal closer than $100,000,day, my own judgment was that it was wholly upon our acts here, upon the disposition we 000; that it ought not to be necessary to keep unnecessary to keep such a large sum as that. have shown to meet every public engagement, $100,000,000 in the Treasury to meet unfore. I think $25,000,000 would be ample, but out and our determination to keep the public faith seen demands. That, I believe, has been about of deference to the opinions of others who and pay fully the public obligations. the way our finances have been administered have insisted upon keeping this amount in the I have not paid much attention to the sub since the close of the war. I think we could Treasury for the last year, I have put it at ject immediately before us; but I am satis calculate our necessities more closely than $10,000,000. How does the Senator from New | tied, as a plain business man, that if I had that, and I am, therefore, inclined to adopt Jersey meet it? The official report of the money lying in my vaults, and I had creditors some expedient which will reduce this surplus Secretary of the Treasury says that there have pushing me daily and doubting my intention in the Treasury. been in the Treasury during the last two years to pay, the first thing I would do would be to The Senator from New Jersey, however, more than eighty millions all the time, notwith; | give them every cent that I had in my posses, says that if we conclude to do that it is better standing the interest we have to pay. Now, I sion; and especially would I do so if I had to sell this coin and redeem the five-twenties. propose that we shall sell this gold monthly in daily and hourly large sums of money coming || Why so? The five-twenties we are not obliged the manner proposed, until we reduce it down into my treasury. We are receiving money to pay. The compound interest notes we are to $40,000,000. That is my proposition, and from imports and from taxes all the time, and obliged to pay. If you have funds in the Treas. I do not think it is fairly met by telling us what || yet we leave this money lying in the Treasury | ury which you can dispense with it seems to we have got to pay, and not saying a word in the vain hope that keeping it there will ena ine the better use to make of them is to supply about the receipts. The receipts in coin greatly ble us to meet specie payments. To my mind, the most pressing demand, and the most pressexceed the payments in coin, and have done as the Senator from Vermont said on another ing demand seems to me to be that which you so for the last two years, and I have not the occasion, that is ridiculous. When the coun cannot postpone. least doubt will greatly exceed the payments try is in a condition to resume specie pay. Mr. CATTELL. You can postpone it by in coin during the present year. ments, this little sum of $100,000,000, much paying three per cent. interest. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques- as it may sound, will be very small. Let us Mr. HOWE. The Senator says we can posttion is on the amendment offered by the Sen- get clear of the greenbacks, as we shall after pone it by paying three per cent. interest. And ator from Illinois. a while when our credit is restored, and there so we can postpone the same amount of tiveMr. TRUMBULL. I should like to have will be very few demands upon the Treasury; twenties. the yeas and nays on that. but above all things let us have all the States Mr. CATTELL. By paying six per cent. Mr. CONKLING. Is it a substitute or an of the Union here in the Senate acting together | in gold. addition? with one heart and one mind for the restora- Mr. HOWE. We can raise the same amount Mr. TRUMBULL. It is a substitute. tion of the credit of the country, and there will of money with your three per cent. certificates. Mr. HENDRICKS. I should like to hear | be no dithiculty about it. I object to this meas- But it was upon this point that I wished to say the amendment read. ure entirely because it is one of those tempo- the few words I have to say; and I speak on The Secretary read the amendment. rary expedients; one of those things which are this question always with a great deal of difMr. CAMERON. Mr. President, it seems put forward by those who do not look at the fidence, and not at all certain that I can exto me proper that we should begin to pay the whole subject before thein, and is unlit, I ll press the views which I really entertain. a Now a The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The morn- charters of the national banks continue ; and ation which is possessed by Senators, and they ing hour having expired, the unfinished busi- in this opinion the Secretary of the Treasury | judge from general appearances; and the fact ness of yesterday is regularly before the Senate. concurs, the Comptroller of the Currency con- that there is in the Treasury of the United Mír. CATTELL. I trust the chairman of curs, and the Finance Committee concur, all States seventy-five or one hundred million dol. the Committee on Finance will aliow this bill of whom have paid some particular attention lars in gold is a fact that imparts confidence to be disposed of. The discussion must be to the subject. In the nature of things there to the people of this country and to the people nearly exhausted. This bill is from the same will not be a call for the redemption of these elsewhere who hold the securities of the Unicommittee. certificates. ted States. People generally are not sapMr. SHERMAN. If the Senator really Mr. HOWE. I cannot express any opinion posed to be acquainted with the necessities thinks we can soon get a vote on this proposi. about that. I am not a banker; I am not a or the contingencies that may arise in the transtion I shall not object ; but I am inclined to Secretary of the Treasury; I am not a finan- actions of the Government, and if the amount think the discussion will go on. I have no cier; but I do not understand for my life how of gold was wholly withdrawn from the Treasobjection to letting the unfinished business be that opinion can be reconciled with the opinion ury is it not probable that such a fact would, laid aside informally for a short time. of all those authorities expressed at the time to some extent, affect public confidence in the The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The unfin- these banks were organized. Then it was securities of the United States ? I know, as to ished business of yesterday will be laid aside | thought essential that this reserve should be in persons who have access to the records of the informally, if there be no objection. the vaults of the bank; essential to the security Treasury, who understand the condition of the Mr. HOWE. I was about saying that the of the bill-holder finances of the country, and know exactly what Senator from New Jersey represents this merely Mr. CATTELL. It never has been required its receipts are, and what its obligations are, as a provision by which we are to borrow money to be in the vault. this fact may not be of any considerable conat a less rate of interest than we are paying Mr. HOWE. A certain per cent. has not sequence; but in the estimation of the people, Of course that would be desirable. If been in the vault of the individual banks, to be who judge generally without particular informwe can substitute a loan at three per cent. for sure, and has been provided for elsewhere, ation on the subject, the fact that there is in one at seven and three tenths or any higher but it has always been in lawful money ready the Treasury of the United States a large amount rate of interest, that would seem to be desirable to meet the calls of the bill-holders. I can of surplus gold to meet any of the necessities of if that were all there were of it; but I do not only say it is not worth while to spend any the Government that may arise, or any continunderstand that that is the extent of this prop- time in discussing which of those opinions is gencies that may occur, is a circumstance which osition. I do not understand tbat a man who true and sound; the two opinions do not har- imparts confidence to the people in the credit is borrowing money at six per cent. on time monize with each other. If this reserve is not of the Government; and it may be that if this can always afford to change that for a loan at essential to the security of the bill-holder, then gold was withdrawn from the public Treasury two or three or four per cent. on demand if he you imposed an unnecessary burden on the the securities would fall in price more than has due regard for his credit. banks when you incorporated them. If it is enough to counterbalance the supposed injury Mr. President, the money we borrow under essential to the bill-holder, it seems to me you the public may receive from the retention of this bill we are to borrow on demand ; and we do a wrong to the bill-holder when you take this money in the Treasury. That may not be are to borrow it not of individuals, but to bor- twenty-five millions of that security away and a very important consideration in a financial row it of banks, as I understand, practically, substitute something very different. But the point of view among those who study correctly and we are to assume a very grave obligation. | real question which I wish to put to the Sena- and carefully the condition of the Government; In addition to paying the three per cent. in. || tor from New Jersey and to the Senate is but it has appeared to me that that was a conterest which is required to be paid, we assume this : can the Government afford to become sideration which was entitled to some weight the obligation under this bill of furnishing a directly responsible, and to hold itself so, for | in determining as to the value of the amendfund amounting to the whole amount of the the redemption of twenty-five millions of bank ment proposed by the Senator from Illinois. loan, $25,000,000, and we are to become re- circulation in order to save the difference be- The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The quessponsible for the redemption of the bank cir- tween the interest to be paid on these tempo. tion is on the amendment of tbe Senator from culation to the exact amount of this loan. So | rary certifiates and the interest payable on the Indiana (Mr. Morton] to the amendment of it seeins to me a proposition by which we pay compound-interest notes? If it is the opinion the Senator from Nlinois, [Mr. TRUMBULL.] three per cent. for the privilege of becoming of the Senate that the Government can afford Mr. MORTON called for the yeas and nays; responsible for the redemption of the bank to do that, this is a good bargain to make; and they were ordered. circulation to this amount. It is true we are but I take it there is no man who has regard Mr. CONKLING. Compelled as I am to released from the payment of a larger rate of for his own credit who would assume that ob- vote against this amendment of the Senator interest on the same amount of money. That | ligation upon those terms; and I should not from Indiana, I dislike to do it without assignadvantage we get. Can we afford, can the want to inpose an obligation on the Govern- | ing briefly my reasons. As a proposition by Government afford, to assume this obligation | ment that I would not think it safe for a capi- || itself, looking, as it seems to me, to replacing at that rate? Mr. President, suppose we do talist to assume himself. It seems to me if the greenbacks with coin, I should approve it; assume the obligation. When you provided Government assumes this obligation the Gov. but we have legislated, and that recently, that for these banks you thought it necessary to the ernment will think it necessary to retain some greenbacks are not to be canceled or retired security of the bill-holders that they should means in the Treasury to meet this liability, gradually , or otherwise, but that the volume of have a certain reserve of lawful money in their || perhaps not the whole twenty-five millions, greenbacks now out is to be left outstanding. vaults at all times, to be used for the redemp- || for that is the extent of the liability; but will In the presence of that legislation, and protion of their bills when returned to them. You not the Government retain something for that posing no change, the proposition is to lay thought and you said that was necessary to the purpose? If so, how much? Will it be half? away idle and dead all ihe gold which sball security of the bill-holder. Now, this meas- If so, then one half of that interest is sacri- accumulate in the Treasury beyond the cur. ure proposes to take away that security, or ficed; instead of saving four and three tenths, rent gold expenses; and with what view ? $25,000,000 of that security, from the bill- you save but one half of that. If you retain Why, to leave it for some possible by-and-by; holder, and to substitute something which is not seventy-five per cent. in the Treasury to meet for some time, we know not when, that the lawsul money, to substitute the obligations of this obligation you only make one fourth of hands of the Secretary may be untied, and he the Government, demand obligations to be the difference. That the Government should be permitted to take up greenbacks with gold, assume this obligation, and make no provision or redeem greenbacks with gold. If it looks Mr. CATTELL. Is lawful money of the whatever for it, seems to me to be rather risky to a restoration of specie payments it is a Government anything else but the demand financiering. mere exceptionalspasmodic etfort in that direcobligation of the Government; and is not this This is the objection I have to the proposi- tion; it will have no tendeney to aceelerate or the same thing? tion of the Senator from New Jersey. Of approach to specie payments without other Mr. HOWE. It is very different. Lawful course I should have more confidence in the things being done as cognate measures ; cermoney is not only an obligation which the Gov. Senator's opinions than I would in my own tainly not without removing repugnant and inernment is bound to respect and receive on ordinarily on a question of this kind, and I do consistent provisions of law. Therefore it demand, but which each Senator and every not know but that I should defer to him; but seems to me that the sole effect of the propobusiness man in the country is bound to respect I have not heard himn or any one else meet this sition is to bury in the ground this amount of and to receive as lawful money on demand. objection, and therefore I have thought it proper gold, with the premium for which it might be You cannot say that of these three per cent. to state it. sold, lose premium, lose interest, and lose the certificates. The Government is bound to meet Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. President, one idea right to dispose of the gold in the mean time them when presented; but when will they be has occurred to me bearing on the amendment until some unfixed and indefinite future period presented? “Just when the holders of the bank i proposed by the Senator from Illinois to which which, in point of fact, may never come. circulation want lawful money; then they will no allusion has been made in the discussion ; || Therefore, Mr. President, although I entirely call on the banks and the banks will not be able || that is as to the effect which the retention of agree with the motive, if I understand it, of to respond, because their money is in the || this amount of gold in the Treasury of the Uni- this amendment, because it seems to me enhands of the Government, and the bill-holder ted States has upon the public securities. Now, tirely inadequate to the end and not wisely must wait until the bank can collect of the Gov. is it quite clear that if the amount of gold in adapted to it, I am compelled to vote against it. ernment. How long that will take I am sure the Treasury is greatly reduced the bonds and Mr. MORTON. Mr. President, one word I do not know, other securities of the United States will be in explanation of this amendment. I sug Mr. CATTELL. Allow me to say a word. || worth as much as they are at this time? Pub- gested some days ago that the way to return to I expressed the opinion the other day that the lic credit is very sensitive, and the people who specie payments was to fix a day when the loan in this form can remain as long as the own our bonds bave not that particular inform- Government would begin the redemption of its sure. are the expressions of our most sodan any no te payable by express provision in a wbur cease. notes. The Government cannot redeem the ground on this subject when it declared in these Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. I will finish my notes without gold any more than a man can impressive words: remarks, Mr. President. pay his debts without money, and the gold “We denounce all forms of repudiation as a na- Mr. STIERMAN. Very well. cannot be obtained all at ouce upon a given tional crime, and the national honor requires the Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. The act of day, but it must be collected and reserved. payment of the public indebtedness in the utmost March 3, 1863, does say that the principal is What day that shall be, what time shall be only according to the letter, but according to the to be paid in coin. But if any one will look at fixed to begin this work, I am not now pre- || spirit of the law under wbich they were contracted.” that act of March 3, 1863, he will find that the pared to say ; but we are prepared io say that “Not only according to the letter, but accord- second act provides for the issue of Treasury We will begin tive work of reserving the golding to the spirit,” "the utmost good faith,' notes which not to be coin, for that purpose: We have now in the Treasury a large amount one deny that, when that convention met, there money, and therefore it was requisite in the of surplus gold. We have sold within one were some in the country who insisted that our sameact to specify how the principal of these tenyear back perhaps $40,000,000 that might securities might lawfully be paid in promises forties should be paid. As the act necessarily also have been reserved for this very purpose. to pay in greenbacks; and can any one deny provided that the Treasury notes should be paid We shall collect in the next year at least that that delaration of the convention was made in lawful money, when speaking of the princi$10,000,000 of gold that may be reserved for for the express purpose of negativing the idea pal of these bonds it became necessary to say this purpose; and in the course of a year from that they were to be paid in anything else than that they should be paid in coin; and that is this time we shall have a very large sum. If coin? That was the purpose of that provis clearly the manner in which the expression " in we now declare that this gold is to be held as ion of the platform, and it was received by this coin” grew into that act. a reserve for the purpose of redeeming these country with acclamation ; and I think that Besides, those who invested in these bonds notes, it would at once give the notes a credit wherever a leader undertakes to commit this had the declaration of the Secretary ofthe Treasthey have never had, as I believe. I heard party to any other doctrine than that we are to ury, Mr. Chase, the Secretary of the Treasone of the ablest financiers in the country-it pay all our securities as those who took them ury, Mr. Fessenden, and Mr. McCullough, that was his suggestion--say that the very exist- understood they were to be paid, he goes con these securities were to be paid in coin. We ence of a large surplus of gold in the Treasury, | trary to the avowed principles of his party and had the declaration and the public adveralthough there was vo declared purpose for does it great injury. And while my distin- | tisements of the agents of this Government; which it was held, gave a strength and sup- guished friend from Indiana [Mr. Morton] and we all sat here and saw those advertiseport and credit to the legal-tender notes from would be selected by me, perhaps, sooner than ments made without ever controverting or couexpectation of the people that at some time any other Senator to be my leader, he cannot tradicting them; and the people of this counthat gold would be applied to their redemp- represent me or my constituents in holding the try, men who had fifty and one hundred dollars tion. doctrine that the bonds of this country are pay: which they had earned by hard toil came forMr. President, the Senator from New York | able in any other mode than those who received ward with the capitalist and poured their money says that we resolved that contraction should the bonds understood and had a right to under- into the Treasury and took our securities. I What kind of contraction ? Not con- stand they were to be paid ; and I am satisfied rejoice that the great liberty party of the countraction by redeeming our notes in gold and that any party which holds a contrary doctrine try, the strength of which consists in its advothen building up the credit of the Govern- underrates the integrity of the American peo- cacy of what is right and just, have in their ment; but contraction by taking in these ple; the honor of this country is sacred to platform declared that those securities shall be notes and putting out gold-bearing bonds. them. They have invested their money for the paid in the utmost good faith and according That did not restore the credit of the country ; purpose of saving this country, and it has been to the letter and the spirit of the contract. it simply gave ove form of paper for another. wrung from the sweat of honest toil at the loom Mr. SHERMAN. Now, unless we can have That kind of contraction ceased, and ought to and anvil and plow; and the people are ready a vote I ask that the funding bill be taken up: have ceased some time before it did. But, sir, to pay the last farthing of it. Mr. CATTELL. I hope that the vote will let us hold the gold and collect inore, and Ny learned friend in his argument said that be taken now. then say that at a certain time, a year hence the law does not require that these securities Mr. SUMNER. Let us have a vote. or two years bence, whatever time Congress in should be paid in coin. I do not agree with The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques. its wisdom next winter may say, the Gov | bim. I understand that by the custom of tion is on the amendment of the Senator from erument shall begin to redeem these notes ; this and of every other Government, its prom- | Indiana, (Mr. Morton, on which the yeas and and my prediction is that before you get to || ises were always payable in coin; and unless | nays have been ordered. the time fixed the premium on gold will be some declaration is made in the law contra- The question being taken by yeas and nays, down to almost nothing, and a greenback will vening that custom, when this country makes resulted-yeas 8, nays 30; as follows: be as good as gold, and when a greenback is a promise it is by striet legal construction YEAS-Messrs. Corbett, Edmunds. Morton, Osas good as gold it settles the question as to payable in coin. I have examined these stat- born, Patterson of Tennessee, Pomeroy, Ramsey, and Wade-8. how the bonds are to be paid and it settles utes. The statutes says that the interest shall NAYS-Messrs. Anthony, Cameron, Cattell, Chanda hundred other difficult and troublesome| be payable in coin, without saying the princi- || ler, Cole, conness. Ferry. Fessenden, Frelinghuysen. questions. pal. Why? Because it was at a time when Harlan, Henderson, Hendricks, Howard. McCreery, Sir, we have a debased and depreciated cur McDonald, Morgan, Nye, Patterson of New Hampspecie payments were suspended ; and it was shire, Rice, Ross, Sherman, Sumner, Tipton, Trumrency to-day not worth more than seventy only to give the assurance that notwitbstand- bull, Vickers, Welch, Whyte, Willey, Williams, and cents on the dollar. This lies at the founda- | ing specie payments were suspended else- Wilson--30. tion of all our financial troubles, and I believe where, and as to other contracts, this interest ABSENT--Messrs. Bayard, Buckalew, Conkling, Cragin, Davis. Dixon, Doolittle, Drake. Fowler, the way to begin is to begin at the foundation, as it accrued should be paid in coin. It does Grimes, Howe, Morrill of Maine, Morrillof Vermont, to take some step directly in the direction of not say the principal, because that would be Norton, Saulsbury, Sprague, Stewart, Thayer, Van returning to specie payment, Let us say Winkle, and to-day that we pledge the surplus gold in the that if the country was saved before the prin. Treasury and that which shall accumulate this cipal fell due, being twenty years after date, rejected. financial year and the next to the redemp- we would have resumed specie payment, and The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques. tion of the legal-tender notes, and the very || I do not doubt it now. We find, too, by looking tion recurs on the amendment of the Senator moment that declaration becomes a law, in my at the act of February 25, 1862, that the Gov. from Mlinois. opinion the premium on gold will down one ernment has by law provided that both the Mr. TRUMBULL. At the suggestion of half. principal and interest shall be paid in coin, for several Senators I will change my amendment Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Mr. President, | that act expressly declares that there shall be so as to offer it as an additional section and I understand the argument of the Senator from a sinking fund set aside, not to pay the inter- not as a substitute, leaving the bill to stand, Indiana to be that the best mode to improve est of these bonds alone, but also to pay the and moving as an additional section the amend our financial condition is to incrrease the public principal. ment which I offer, striking out the words reconfidence in our ability and intention to pay. But it is argued that because the act of lating to the compound-interest notes; in the I agree that this is the grand idea to our finan- | March 3, 1863, authorizing the issue of what | third line striking out the words “redeeming cial recovery. We want to give confidence to are known as ten-forties, provides that the prin- and retiring the remainder of the compoundthe people; and the suggestion made by the cipal as well as the interest shall be paid in || interest nutes ;' and in the twenty-eighth and Senator from Oregon [Mr. WILLIAMS] that the coin, that the omission of such a provision as twenty-ninth lines striking out the words “ gold in the Treasury bas some value in that to the principal in the prior acts is very sig. | compound-interest notes with the interest acregard is well taken. But, Mr. President, nificant. The fact that the law creating the crued thereon." nothing can do so much to check the confidence ten-forties states that the principal is to be Mr. HENDRICKS. I am embarrassed to of the American people in the purpose of the paid in coin bas no significance. know how to vote upon the amendment pro. Government to deal fairly with its creditors as Mr. SHERMAN. I ask my friend to allow posed by the Senator from Illinois. The evil suggestions every now and then thrown out that he funding bill to be taken up. It is manifest of accumulating gold in the Treasury ought to we are not legally bound to pay as the people of that the other bill is lost sight of and we can- be overcome if possible ; but I do not like this the United States understand that we under: not get a vote on it to-day, and then his speech mode of overcoming it. My opinion is that took to pay that debt. Nothing is so injurious would be nearer the question before the Senate. thie tariff ought to be so adjusted as to bring to this country as the suggestion that our secur- Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN, I shall detain into the Treasury only the amount of gold that ities are to be paid in promises instead of in the Senate but a minute or two longer. the demands in gold upon the Treasury redollars, as made in the Senate yesterday. The Mr. SHERMAN. It is manifest that a vote | quire. This system of collecting by duties Republican party at Chicago took the true cannot be obtained on this bill to-day. $50,000,000 each year more thau are required in so the amendment to the amendment was go or |
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