Mr. BLAINE. I beg the Chair to excuse me; I am not well.

The SPEAKER. Then the gentleman from Minnesota [Mr. DONNELLY] will please take the chair this evening.

The question was taken on Mr. WASHBURNE'S motion, and it was agreed to.

The House thereupon, (at four o'clock, p.m.,) took a recess until seven o'clock, p. m.

THE PRESIDENT'S ANNUAL MESSAGE. The House reassembled at seven o'clock, p.m., and resolved itself into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, (Mr. DONNELLY in the chair,) and resumed the consideration of the annual message of the President of the United States, on which the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. BROOMALL] had the floor.

wick, New Jersey, praying that ministers of the gospel may be exempted from military duty; which was referred to the Committee on Military Affairs and the Militia.

Mr. CLARK presented the petition of Samuel L. Gerould, for pay for his services as reporter in a court-martial; which was referred to the Committee on Claims.

Mr. HALE presented the petition of Dorsey Edwin William Towson, of Georgetown, District of Columbia, praying that his name be changed to Dorsey Edwin William Carter; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Mr. LANE, of Indiana, presented the memorial of the common council of Michigan City, Indiana, praying for the improvement of the harbor at that place; which was referred to the Committee on Commerce.

He also presented the petition of officers of the subsistence department of the Army, praying that the subsistence department be placed on an equal

Mr. COLE, of California, moved that the committee do now rise.

The motion was agreed to.

So the committee rose; and Mr. COLE, of California, having taken the chair as Speaker pro tempore, Mr. BROOMALL reported that the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union had, according to order, had under consideration the state of the Union generally, and particularly the annual message of the President of the United States, and had come to no resolution thereon. And then, on motion of Mr. BROOMALL, (at twenty-five minutes to eleven o'clock, p. m.,) the House adjourned.

IN SENATE. WEDNESDAY, February 8, 1865. Prayer by Rev. B. H. NADAL, D. D.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Journal of yesterday will be read.

Mr. FOOT. Unless some member of the body is particularly interested in hearing that Journal read, I suggest that it be dispensed with, by the unanimous consent of the Senate.

There being no objection, the reading of the Journal was dispensed with.

WITHDRAWAL OF PAPERS.

Mr. FOOT. I move that the Committee on Patents and the Patent Office be discharged from the farther consideration of the petition of Henry Stanley for the continuance of his patent; and that the petitioner have leave to withdraw his petition. I make the motion with the consent of the chairman of that committee.

The motion was agreed to.

MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE.

A message from the House of Representatives, by Mr. MCPHERSON, its Clerk, announced that the House had, in conformity to the joint rule on the subject, appointed Mr. J. F. WILSON of Iowa, and Mr. J. L. DAWSON of Pennsylvania, tellers on its part to examine and count the electoral votes for President and Vice President of the United States on this day.

The message also announced that the House had passed a bill (H. R. No. 683) making appropriations for the support of the Army for the year ending the 30th of June, 1866; and a bill (H. R. No. 688) making appropriations for the construction, preservation, and repairs of certain fortifications and other works of defense, for the year ending the 30th of June, 1866; in which the concurrence of the Senate was requested.

PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS.

Mr. HARRIS presented the petition of captains, commanders, and lieutenant commanders on the active list of the United States Navy, praying for the repeal of so much of the act to establish and equalize the grades of line officers of the Navy, approved July 16, 1862, as relates to the pay of captains and commanders, and of the pay at sea of lieutenant commanders, so as to restore to their respective grades and duties the pay to which they were entitled prior to the passage of that act; which was referred to the Committee on Naval Affairs.

He also presented a petition of ministers of the gospel and pastors of the churches at New Bruns

way of promotion; which was referred to the Committee on Military Affairs and the Militia.

He also presented a petition of commissioned officers of Indiana regiments in the military service of the United States, praying for an increase of compensation; which was referred to the Committee on Military Affairs and the Militia.

Mr. SUMNER. I present a petition of citizens of Cambridge, in Massachusetts, headed by Henry W. Longfellow, asking Congress to enact a law preferring for appointment to all inferior offices persons honorably discharged from the military or naval service of the United States. I have already presented a similar petition to this, which was referred to the Committee on Military Affairs. I move that this also be referred to the same committee.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. COWAN. I beg leave to present the petition of George W. Martin, praying that his case may be investigated and the record of the Senate amended and other acts done which will secure his rights. It appears that Mr. Martin was appointed military storekeeper, and he alleges he was confirmed by the Senate, but that the record, from accident or otherwise, does not show the fact, and he prays, therefore, that it be amended. I move that this petition be referred to the Committee on Military Affairs and the Militia.

The motion was agreed to. POSTAL LAWS. The VICE PRESIDENT. mittees are in order.

Reports of com

Mr. COLLAMER. I desire now, as I can never get any other time, to move to postpone all prior orders and take up the bill (S. No. 390) relating to the postal laws. I think it will not cause debate; it is a bill which ought to be sent to the other House.

Mr. TRUMBULL. Let us make our reports first.

Mr. SUMNER. Had we not better go through the morning business?

Mr. COLLAMER. Gentlemen ask to make reports, and then they insist on the immediate consideration of those reports, so that there is no chance for other business.

Mr. TRUMBULL. Let the Senator go on with his bill. I withdraw my suggestion.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the Senator from Vermont. The motion was agreed to, and the bill (S. No. 390) relating to the postal laws was considered as in the Committee of the Whole. The bill was read.

The Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads reported the bill with several amendments. The first amendment of the committee, was to strike out the first section, as follows:

That from and after the 1st day of July, 1865, unpaid postage upon letters and other mail matter received for delivery, the registration fee on registered letters, rents of drawers and boxes, and all other postal transactions at post offices in which money is involved, except collections of drafts and deposits, shall be paid and performed by the use of United States postage stamps, under such rules and regulations as the Postmaster General shall prescribe.

The amendment was agreed to. 1

Mr. HALE. Before another vote is taken, as this is a very important bill, and the Senate evidently have not listened to it, I wish the chairman

of the Committee would state some of the principal alterations made by the bill.

Mr. COLLAMER. This bill as it has now been read was prepared by the head of the Post Office Department. He recommended a variety of legislation in his general report of the year. I called on him and asked him to put in the form of a bill all the legislation he desired for his Department for the year, and we could then examine it and make such amendments as we thought advisable and necessary. He prepared a bill, and this bill as it stands printed here now is the very bill which was prepared by him. I presented it, and it was read twice, and referred to the Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads. With that bill he also sent a letter explaining all the parts of the bill which he had not explained in his annual report. That letter has been printed. The bill was drawn up out of the materials in the Post Office report, and from this letter of the Postmaster General, at the Department, to carry into effect the views they entertained in relation to legislation.

The committee, after spending some time in carefully examining the bill, reported it with a variety of amendments which have not yet been read. The Chair has called them up one at a time, the first section first. The committee reported that the first section should be stricken out. If gentlemen would collate the bill with the Post Office report, and the letter of the Postmaster General, they would see and understand the reason for all these various sections. They have very little relation to each other; they are isolated sections to secure certain purposes stated in his report and letter. I can go over them all if gentlemen desire it; but I hardly thought it worth while, inasmuch as the bill as drawn by the Department was sustained and explained by the letter of the Postmaster General, to occupy the attention of the Senate in explaining it. However, if any gentleman wishes it, I will endeavor to do so.

The committee have reported a variety of amendments to the bill. The first section, which the committee recommend be stricken out, is based on this idea: a year ago, at the recommendation of the Department, a law was passed to enable them to dispense with keeping so great a variety of accounts, and in order to do that it was provided that at least all letters should be prepaid by postage stamps, and then, if that was faithfully done, all the accounts that would have to be kept by postmasters would be the accounts of their postage stamps. They would need then only so many postage stamps; and inasmuch as nothing can pass through the mails but what is stamped and canceled, if they kept an account of the postage stamps, that is all they would have to keep. It would dispense with all this great variety of quarterly returns, amounting, as the gentleman from New Hampshire very well knows, he having been a member of the Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads, there being about twenty-eight thousand post offices, to twenty-eight thousand quarterly accounts to be looked over and collated with the post office bills. It was utterly impracticable to do that. These quarterly returns acted as some sort of check upon the postmasters, because they were supposed to be looked over, but in fact they never were.

The first section of the bill is predicated on the idea that everything done in a post office, pay for box rents and everything else connected with the Post Office Department, should be paid in postage stamps; the whole dealings of the office should be in stamps. The only object to be secured by that was the simplifying of accounts; but the trouble is that it does not simplify them; it is undertaking to push the principle beyond any practicable result. For instance, suppose a man comes in to pay for his box; suppose it is a dollar. He comes with his dollar and says to the postmaster, "I want to pay my box rent.' The postmaster tells him, if this section should be adopted, that the law requires him to pay it in postage stamps. "Very well," says he, "hand me the postage stamps for my dollar." The postmaster hands him the postage stamps, and he hands them right back again to pay the box rent. It will be perceived that those are not canceled stamps; they are stamps paid back into his hands that he can use again; and he may, if he has one hundred box rents at the same price, with one dollar's

worth of stamps have the whole of them paid to him; and after all he has no stamps canceled; he has just as many to return and just as many to account for, and no more, than he had before. Still you have to rely upon his account of how much money he got for these boxes. And so it is with regard to all the other things mentioned in this section.

Mr. FARWELL. If the Senator will allow me I should like to make one suggestion to him. I perceive the tendency of this section, and certainly it will be plain to every Senator it would be a good section if it could be carried out. Now, I suggest to the Senator whether, if the postmaster was required to cancel the stamps paid in for such purpose in the presence of the man who pays him, it would not carry out the intention of the section and protect the Government?

Mr. COLLAMER. There is no security about what the man paid. The Department does not know who pays the box rents or who does not. Whom are we to call upon for any check upon him one way or the other? The committee considered this section at large; but they could not see how, practically, it could simplify accounts, and they directed me to call upon and have a conference with the head of the Department about it. I did so, and suggested to him our difficulty about it; that we did not see what practical effect the section would have; that the Department would still have to depend on accounts about those things. After a full discussion, and on conference with his Assistants, he said it would not simplify them; that really it would not effect the purpose at all; and he did not wish it preserved. He entertaining the same view that the committee did about it, the committee recommended that the first section be stricken out. That is all I desire to say about that section.

I will proceed with the other sections if any gentleman wishes it; if not-——

Mr. HALE. If the Senator from Vermont will allow me a moment, he will recollect that when some debate took place on the post office bill which was passed at the last session, the Postmaster General was present, and I believe had some consultation with the honorable chairman backward and forward

Mr. COLLAMER. I recollect what he said to you.

Mr. HALE. He did not say anything to me; but I want to ask the chairman if, practically, the predictions and anticipations of the Postmaster General in regard to the operation of that measure have been realized, or have they failed?

Mr. COLLAMER. When we come to the section of this bill which relates to that subject I will state how it is as well as I know.

Gentlemen seem to desire that I should explain these different sections; and as they may not all have read the report and letter on which they are founded, I will endeavor to do it. If gentlemen desire it, of course they will attend to it.

The second section is to carry out the principle of requiring all letters to be prepaid. That is the principle on which we started, and which we desire to carry into effect. This section provides that if a man deposits a letter without prepayment by stamp, it shall be returned to him. If the postmaster can ascertain who wrote it or knows who wrote it, he is to return it to the writer for that reason; and if he cannot ascertain without opening the letter, he need not keep it till the end of the quarter and then transmit it to the dead letter office here to be opened, as the law now requires, but he may open it, ascertain who wrote it, and send it back to the writer without its having to go around the circuit of the dead letter office.

Mr. CLARK. I desire to ask the Senator, if he will permit me, whether some other provision, such as advertising, or something of that kind, may not be adopted for returning those letters instead of opening them. I do not like allowing them to be opened in this way.

Mr. COLLAMER. They are opened now. Mr. CLARK. Here at the dead letter office; but I do not quite like to allow them to be opened by all the postmasters about the country.

Mr. COLLAMER. That section is left by the committee unaltered, just as the Department desired it; and the committee were reconciled to it, after some considerable debate, from the consideration that the unpaid letters now go to the dead

letter office and are there opened, and it will be much more expeditious to let them be opened on the spot and given back at once to the men who deposit them, and there is no more exposure.

Mr. CLARK. The Senator will pardon me; I think there is a great deal more exposure in one view; that is, it acquaints all the postmasters in the neighborhood what the people about them are writing, instead of sending the letters here || where the parties are not supposed to know the writers personally.

Mr. COLLAMER. It is the simplest thing in the world to stop all that by just putting a stamp on a letter. If the writer prepays his letter it cannot be opened. There is no occasion of a man getting into difficulty or in any sort of danger except by his own inattention and neglect; if he will just stamp his letter there is the end of it.

The third section is an attempt to secure the prepayment of all printed matter. There is some difficulty in the practical working of the present system. Papers are now sent from the publishers through the post offices without prepayment, the arrangement being that the postage shall be collected by the quarter at the office of delivery; but in point of fact it is not all collected; a large amount of it remains uncollected; it is lost as revenue to the Department. It is therefore desirable to secure a prepayment of the printed matter as well as of the letters, and this section is drawn with a view to that. It provides that from and after January 1, 1866, so as to give time to make all the arrangement for that purpose, printed matter shall be prepaid. It does not say that it shall be prepaid by postage stamps; that is not the provision; but it shall be prepaid in such manner as the regulations made by the Department shall order and direct. It is probably impracticable to secure prepayment of postage on newspapers by postage stamps. Take a large edition of a daily paper, say the New York Herald, if you please, which every day distributes perhaps a hundred thousand copies, but I will say fifty thousand. They always delay the issuing of the paper as late as they can, so as to put in the last news. They just allow time enough to wrap and direct the papers when they close their press, and then get them into the post office wrapped and directed. If each of these wrappers is to have a stamp put upon it, and that stamp is to be canceled, the papers will not get off that day, for it would require a new manipulation of each paper. This would be impracticable without delaying the sending off the paper until the day after publication. The section, therefore, provides that the manner of doing it shall be left to arrangements by the Postmaster General, and the remainder of this year is allowed to make these arrangements. Of course he will make them after consultation with the publishers as to the best way, either by weighing the papers, or by requiring a return under oath of the extent of their distribution, and having access to their books for the purpose of verifying their return. The regulations will be arranged by the Postmaster General, as I am assured by him, on consultation with the publishers, and in such a manner as to make it easy and practicable. The prepayment of printed matter is a very great object to effect, and the Postmaster General entertains no doubt that it is entirely practicable without the use of postage stamps, and that he can make regulations to carry it into effect.

Mr. HOWE. Let me inquire of the chairman of the Post Office Committee if it is not practicable to make these arrangements by the 1st of July? Mr. COLLAMER. He prefers to have a year to do it in.

Mr. HOWE. If the arrangements were made by the 1st of July we might know something of their operation by the next session of Congress.

Mr. COLLAMER. The truth is that if you require the prepayment of postage, the publisher will add the amount to the price of the paper, and the subscriptions for papers almost universally commence with January, and the Postmaster General wants to commence with January. For that reason January is put in.

have not yet been read, and I want those amendments first passed upon. They may cover what the Senator wants. I think the usual course had better be taken about it.

Mr. HALE. Very well.

Mr. COLLAMER. I come next to section four.

Mr. TRUMBULL. I should like to make an inquiry in regard to section three before the Senator passes from it; it may save time hereafter. I desire to know if it is not practicable to fix in the law the regulation by which postage is to be prepaid on printed matter. One of the newspaper publishers of the country has written to me, and objects to this provision because it leaves it discretionary with the Postmaster General. He says one Postmaster General may adopt one set of rules, and another another, and the publishers are at the mercy of the Postmaster General in regard to it. Why not fix the matter by law? Let them know what they are required to do, and then there will be some certainty.

Mr. COLLAMER. The Senator had the goodness to hand me that letter, and I showed it to the Postmaster General and had a consultation on the subject. It is a matter which has not been overlooked. The difficulty of undertaking to prescribe by law the manner of doing it I have already suggested to the Senate when I spoke of the impracticability of requiring newspapers to be prepaid by stamps. It is difficult now to say what should be the exact mode of prepaying printed matter without consultation with the publishers. We have not had information from the publishers in the different parts of the country to enable us to say that we can now fix on a certain plan. The Department can do it better after consulting with the publishers and ascertaining which is the most advisable course, and it will be done as the body of them want it. If you now say by law that it shall be done in a particular mode, the result will be, if that mode shall not work well, it cannot be altered without changing the law and legislating on the subject over again. On the whole I thought it would be the most prudent and practicable way, and I believe that is the opinion of the committee, to leave the section as the Postmaster General drew it.

The next section is section four. We were applied to again and again by postmasters whose post offices had been robbed, destroyed, and burnt up by the enemy, for relief for the postage stamps they had lost and what they had suffered in their offices. These applications became very numerous, and Congress last year passed a law authorizing the Postmaster General to settle those cases, but confined it to losses occasioned by the enemy, and did not cover those cases where the post office itself was destroyed by our own troops. The object of this section is to enable the Postmaster General to settle those accounts in cases where the destruction has been by our own forces. That is all there is in that section.

The fifth section is to help to carry out the money-order system. It became necessary to make expenditures in relation to furniture and fixings in the money-order offices to enable them to carry on their work. There was no authority given to the Department to settle with the postmasters for these necessary expenses, and this section is to enable the Postmaster General to do that.

I come next to the sixth section. It has been found by the Postmaster General that he cannot get published in these times the list of undelivered letters, which is required by law to be published in newspapers, for one cent per letter. The papers will not do it for that; and as he is confined to that price by law, this section proposes to amend the law so that he may get it done, if he can, for a rate not exceeding two cents per letter.

Mr. COLLAMER. The fact is that the committec have recommended amendments which

is to enable the Department to pay that officer his salary, which was cut down by a mere inad

vertence.

The eighth section provides that the special agents of the Department other than those ap pointed for the Pacific States and Territories, to

superintend postal matters connected with the railway service of the United States, shall be allowed for their traveling expenses, while actively employed in the service, a sum not exceeding four dollars a day.

The ninth section is in relation to maps which the Department has been making arrangements for preparing and publishing. They are maps of the States and Territories arranged in groups, showing the post routes and the location of post offices. These maps are to be engraved, and some money is required to finish the engraving and to make the publication, and the ninth section makes an appropriation of $10,000 for that purpose.

Section ten is to carry into effect a plan which has been recently entered upon by the Department, of making distribution in the railway cars, instead of having all the letters pass into the distribution offices to be there distributed. They put clerks upon the cars and distribute the mail matter as they go along through all the important routes of the country.

Mr. HALE. Is not that done now?

Mr. COLLAMER. They have put it in operation now, and this section is to provide pay for the clerks that are employed in that service; that is all.

Mr. HOWE. These clerks, I take it, are to supersede the present agents.

Mr. COLLAMER. I suppose the result will be to dispense with what we call route agents on the important routes; but the Department will not be able to dispense with as many of them as they put on clerks, by any means, because these clerks have to do the duties formerly done by the route agents and by the clerks in the distributing offices.

Mr. HOWE. Where they have these clerks, they will not have what are now called route agents.

Mr. COLLAMER. They will still need route agents on some routes where they do not have these clerks, but on the routes where these clerks are employed they will probably be able to dispense with the route agents.

The eleventh section relates to the carrying of the mails by steamships. The present law on that subject provides that if they are American ships they may be allowed the inland and the sea postage for this service, and if foreign ships the sea postage only. There was a doubt whether the Postmaster General was always obliged to give them all that. On some of the routes he says the service ought to be done for a great deal less, and he wants to be at liberty to get it done for less if he can. His reading of the law was, as the owners of the vessels claimed, that they were entitled to the whole of that postage, at any rate, and in order to remove any doubt about that this section eleven is put in, that he shall get the service done if by American vessels for any sum not exceeding the sea and inland postage and if by foreign vessels, for any sum not exceeding the sea postage, so that he may be at liberty to get it for less if he can.

Section twelve only carries into effect section eleven by compelling the vessels to take the mails. It is a provision to compel them when they take clearances to take the mails if so required.

Section thirteen is superseded by an amendment of the committee. It was originally drawn with a view to enable the money-order offices to make deposits in national banks that are depositaries of United States moneys, so that they may make transfers of their money where it is received to where it is desired to be paid out. That section is altered at the suggestion of the Department so as to enable all deputy postmasters to make deposits in the national banks that are depositary banks in all cases where they have moneys to deposit. It is only to allow them to do that which the Assistant Treasurers do, which the collectors of internal revenue and the collectors of customs do.

Mr. HOWE. I notice another difference between the amendment proposed and the section struck out. By the amendment the money, as I understand it, is to be deposited at the risk of the Government; whereas, in the section struck out, it was to be deposited at the risk of the postmasI do not find fault with the amendment, but I wish to know if I understand it aright. Mr. COLLAMER. The Senator understands it aright, and I will tell him the reason for the change. These depositary banks are required to

ter.

furnish and deposit United States bonds with the Treasurer of the United States as a security for the deposits made with them. Now, if you say that the postmaster who deposits his money shall do so at his own risk, we cannot hold those securities for it; but if he deposits, as the Assistant Treasurers and collectors do, for the Government, those securities will be holden for it. I presume the gentleman understands it.

Mr. HOWE. I think it is right.

Mr. COLLAMER. Section fifteen provides punishment for tearing down post-office boxes, and is a security for the safe deposit of letters.

Mr. HALE. Could you not make these offenses punishable by military commission? [Laughter.]

Mr. COLLAMER. No, we do not do that. The next section is the sixteenth. As the law now stands, the Postmaster General may publish his yearly advertisements for proposals to carry the mails in as many papers in every State as he directs. He is applied to, of course, by every paper, and every paper has its friends about here arging its claims. There seems to be no end to the applications, and the matter really becomes a job to be given out, not for the public service, but as a matter of favor. This section proposes that the Postmaster General shall not be allowed to pub lish the advertisements in more than five papers in each State or Territory where the mail service is to be performed, limiting it so that he will not have to subsidize all the papers in the country. That is the object of it, to relieve him from importunities.

Section seventeen is the one of which the Senator from New Hampshire [Mr. HALE] spoke, which proposes to amend the act of March 3, 1863, relative to the free-delivery system.

The VICE PRESIDENT, (the Clerk of the House of Representatives having appeared below the bar.) Will the Senator from Vermont be kind enough to suspend his remarks that a message may be received from the House of Representatives?

Mr. MCPHERSON delivered his message, as follows:

Mr. President, I am directed to inform the Senate that the House of Representatives is now ready to receive the Senate for the purpose of proceeding to open and count the votes of the electors of the several States for President and Vice President of the United States.

Mr. COLLAMER.

The seventeenth section of the bill is an explanation of the act about the free-delivery system

Mr. TRUMBULL. If the Senator from Vermont will give way, as we have received this notice from the House

The VICE PRESIDENT. At one o'clock the Senate will repair to the Hall of the House without any notice.

Mr. COLLAMER. I wish this bill to be left as the unfinished business.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator can proceed for five minutes, if he chooses. Mr. COLLAMER. I will go on. I can get through, perhaps, in that time. The seventeenth section is the last section in the printed bill. The act providing for the free-delivery system provided that two cents postage should be paid on drop letters, and that all letters should be delivered free, the expense of delivery being supposed to be covered by the charge of two cents instead of one cent on drop letters as it was before; and the head of the Department at that time entertained the belief that it would extend practically to all our cities and large towns in the country, and dispense with boxes, &c.

Mr. SHERMAN. With the consent of the honorable Senator from Vermont, and in order to prevent confusion, I move to postpone the further consideration of this bill informally, to take up the legislative, executive, and judicial appropriation bill, that it may be made the order of the day for one o'clock to-morrow.

Mr. COLLAMER. And in the morning hour I can finish this? ["Yes."]

The VICE PRESIDENT. If there be no objection, the motion of the Senator from Ohio will be entertained.

Mr. COLLAMER. Let this be treated as the unfinished business of the morning.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion of the Senator from Ohio, to take up the bill indicated by him.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. SHERMAN. I now move to postpone its further consideration, and to make it the special order of the day for one o'clock to-morrow. The motion was agreed to.

Mr. COWAN. Iam directed by the Committee on Patents and the Patent Office to report a resolution, and to ask for its present consideration.

Mr. COLLAMER. I take it the business I had under consideration remains for consideration.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair understands it will be the unfinished business of the morning hour to-morrow morning, and it will be the unfinished business for to-day, when the Sen

ate returns.

Mr. COLLAMER. If we return here to-day, may we not go on with it as unfinished business?

The VICE PRESIDENT. Yes.

PATENT OFFICE REPORT.

Mr. COWAN. I am directed by the Committee on Patents and the Patent Office to report the following resolution:

Resolved, That there be printed for the use of the Senate five thousand copies of the annual report of the Patent Of fice for the year 1864.

Mr. ANTHONY. That resolution should go to the Committee on Printing.

The VICE PRESIDENT. It is the report of a committee.

Mr. ANTHONY. If the committee from whom it is reported knows the expense, I have no objection to action now; but I think, before a document so expensive is ordered to be printed, before the number is decided upon, the Senate ought to be in possession of the cost of doing it, ["Move to refer it."] I would rather that the committee from whom it comes should make the motion to refer.

Mr. POMEROY. I move that it be referred to the Committee on Printing.

Mr. COWAN. I have no objection, certainly. Mr. ANTHONY. If the Senator has an estimate, I would as lief it should come from his committee.

Mr. COWAN. I am content that it should go to the Committee on Printing.

The motion to refer was agreed to.

COUNTING OF PRESIDENTIAL VOTES. The VICE PRESIDENT. The hour agreed upon by the concurrent vote of the two Houses having arrived, the Senate will now repair to the Hall of the House of Representatives for the purpose of opening, counting, and declaring the votes for President and Vice President of the United States for the term commencing on the 4th of March, 1865.

The Senate accordingly proceeded to the Hall of the House of Representatives, preceded by the Sergeant-at-Arms, and headed by the Vice President and the Secretary.

The Senate returned to their Chamber at two o'clock, p. m.

ORDER OF BUSINESS.

Mr. SUMNER. I move that the Senate take up the resolution which I offered two days ago, calling upon the President of the United States for information relating to recent conferences with certain rebels. There will be no debate upon it. I hope it may now be acted upon and passed. The VICE PRESIDENT. The motion can be entertained only by unanimous consent.

Mr. BUCKALEW. I object. I think the Senator might wait until we get into our seats. Mr. SUMNER. I hope the Senator will not object.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator rose in his place and objected distinctly.

Mr. SUMNER. Then I can move to postpone all prior orders and take up that resolution. The VICE PRESIDENT. That will be in order.

Mr. SUMNER. I will do that. Let us get this resolution out of the way. It will only take two minutes.

Mr. COLLAMER. I wish to inquire whether that will supersede the unfinished business. The VICE PRESIDENT. It will if the motion obtains.

Mr. COLLAMER. Then I must object to it.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there any objection? The Chair hears none. The resolution will be received, and read.

Mr. TRUMBULL. The joint committee on the part of the Senate appointed to join such committee as might be appointed on the part of the House of Representatives to ascertain and report a mode of examining the votes for President and Vice President of the United States, and of notifying the persons elected of their election, in further execution of the duties with they were charged by the two Houses have agreed to the following resolution, which I ask the Senate to consider now:

Resolved, That a committee of one member of the Senate be appointed by that body to join a committee of two members of the House of Representatives to be appointed by that House to wait on Abraham Lincoln, of Illinois, and to notify him that he has been duly elected President of the United States for four years, commencing with the 4th day of March, 1865; and also to notify Andrew Johnson, of Tennessee, that he has been duly elected Vice President of the United States for four years, commencing on the 4th day of March, 1865.

The resolution was adopted.

CONFERENCES WITH REBELS.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The special order is now before the Senate.

Mr. SUMNER. I understand that the Senator from Pennsylvania [Mr. BUCKALEW] withdraws his objection to the consideration, informally, of my resolution. It will not displace the bill of the Senator from Vermont. It can be taken up informally by unanimous consent, and acted upon and put out of the way.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. That resolution had better go over until to-morrow. I am quite sure it will lead to some discussion.

Mr. SUMNER. I think not. I think the Senator is mistaken.

Mr. COLLAMER. I am informed by the Chair that it will supersede the unfinished business. The VICE PRESIDENT. If taken up informally it will only supersede it for the time being.

Mr. SUMNER. I merely wish to take it up and get it out of the way.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there any objection to the present consideration of the resolution? The Chair hears none, and it is now before the Senate.

Mr. SAULSBURY. I sent to the Secretary's desk yesterday an amendment which I intended to propose to this resolution.

The VICEPRESIDENT. The resolution and amendment will be read.

The Secretary read the resolution, as follows: Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested, if in his opinion not incompatible with the public interests, to furnish to the Senate any information in his possession concerning recent conversations or communications with certain rebels, said to have been under execative sanction, including communications with the rebel Jefferson Davis, and any correspondence relating thereto. The amendment of Mr. SAULSBURY was to add the following:

And that be be also requested to inform the Senate whether he, or others acting under his authority, did not require, as a condition to reunion, the acquiescence of said persons mentioned in said resolution, or of the public authorities of the so-called confederate States, in the abolition of slavery in said States; and also, whether he, or those acting by his authority, did not require as a condition to negotiation that the said confederates should lay down their arms. And that he be requested to inform the Senate fully in reference to everything connected with or occurring in said conference or ceuferences in relation to the subject

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 1865.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I would like to have them lie over until to-morrow, and be printed. Mr. SUMNER. Allow me to make an explanation.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I desire to make an explanation also.

Mr. SUMNER. I object to the amendment of the Senator from Delaware, and on this simple ground: to my mind it is not respectful to the President; it is in the nature of interrogatories addressed to an unwilling witness. I believe that, in the relations between the Senate and the President we have only to express to him our desire that he should communicate to us what in his opinion he can without any injury to the public interests. I believe that he will make a full and frank communication; and I believe I do not go too far when I say it is well known to many Senators that the President is ready to do it; perhaps I might say that he desires to do it. I think, therefore, there should be no delay in making this call upon him in order to give him that opportunity. There is no occasion for printing a resolution which is merely one of this nature, and which can be understood as it is read from the desk; for the original resolution as presented by myself is as simple as language can make it. The amendment as presented by the Senator from Delaware, I admit, does conflict with the resolution, but ĺ presume the Senate will not be disposed to adopt it; there is no occasion for it.

Mr. SAULSBURY. Mr. President, nothing was further from my intention than to offer any disrespect to the President of the United States. It never occurred to me that the amendment could bear any such construction. Inasmuch as the original resolution requests the President to communicate the conversations that occurred in that conference, I wish everything that occurred to be made known. I have been informed that an armistice was requested by those southern commissioners; and if that be a fact, the country ought to know it. I have been informed also that that request was refused. If that be so, the country has as much interest in knowing that fact as in knowing any other.

I rose simply to disclaim any intention of being disrespectful to the President of the United States or anybody else.

Mr. CONNESS. I suggest to the Senator from Delaware that the resolution as proposed by the Senator from Massachusetts should first be adopted and go to the President; and if the communication the President shall make shall be found, in the judgment of the Senator from Delaware, not to be as full as he thinks it should be, then he may offer a resolution calling for further information; but certainly he should not presume in advance that the President will not furnish all the information in his possession. I think, therefore, he should withdraw the amendment.

Mr. SUMNER. Let us vote it down.
The amendment was rejected.

Mr. SHERMAN. Yesterday when this resolution was called up I objected to it upon the ground that I did not believe it related to any matter of a legislative character to be brought before Congress. The President of the United States not only has the power under the Constitution, but by an express act of Congress, to grant terms of amnesty to rebels or insurgents in arms against the Government. I doubted very much from the reading of the resolution whether it would be wise for the Senate to call for this information. What transpired in that interview will probably never be disclosed, or at least not for some time, either to the Congress of the United States or to the insurgents in Richmond. I doubt very much whether the resolution would do any

to state whether or not as armistice was not asked for by Messrs. Stephens, Hunter, and Campbell with the view to prepare the minds of the Southern people for peace and reunion of the States.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I will inquire whether the resolution and amendment have been printed. The VICE PRESIDENT. Neither has been printed.

stated that the President is ready to communicate this information. It may be well to satisfy the public mind to a certain extent as to what was done there, or what reason induced him to go there; and upon the statement of the Senator from Massachusetts that this is not a resolution intended to hector or lecture or accuse the Presi

NEW SERIES.....No. 42.

dent for doing what he has a right to do, I am perfectly willing to waive my objections. The only reason why I objected to it yesterday was that I might have some understanding as to what was intended by calling for this information, and whether it was agreeable to the President to communicate it. The President of the United States ought to exercise his entire pleasure in the matter, and he ought not to communicate this information merely to satisfy the curiosity of the Senate and the country unless he thinks it will tend to quiet the public mind.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. In my opinion, Mr. President, this resolution is unwise at the present time. It can do no good. If the communication is made of all that occurred at the interview which is said to have taken place between the President of the United States and these gentlemen coming informally or formally from the southern States, we cannot base any legislative action upon it. The President of the United States is charged with this matter upon his responsibility under the Constitution, and we have no control over it so far as the administration of this is concerned. As was said by the Senator from Ohio, the power of granting amnesty is confided to the Executive under the law as it stands. What may have occurred in an interview like this, on that subject, we do not know. In the discussions between the

Executive and these men, if they were pleading for mercy in behalf of those whom they supposed might be ready to lay down their arms, something may have occurred on this subject of amnesty, as to what the President might be disposed to do in the exercise of the pardoning power; but whether there was or not, it seems to me peculiarly improper and unwise to seek by a resolution of the Senate to enter at the present time into that subject.

Sir, I think we ought to presume that the President of the United States knows something. For four years he has been discharging the duties of that high office to the satisfaction of the great mass of the American people. So well satisfied have they been with his administration that they have by tremendous majorities reëlected him to this office to discharge its duties. I know that some persons in Washington and outside of Washington, in Congress and out of Congress, have sometimes been disposed to criticise with a great deal of animadversion the course pursued by the President; but, sir, the result has proved, whenever he has passed through any important crisis in his administration, that although he may not have displayed as much genius as some men possess, in the end he has displayed a wisdom and a sagacity which entitle him to the confidence of the country.

While I believe it is unwise to send a resolution of this kind to the President, because it is assuming, on our part, a wish or a disposition to exercise some control over him in the exercise of his great executive responsibilities, I entertain no opposition to the resolution from any fear or any expectation that when the truth comes to be known anything will appear which tends in the slightest degree to weaken the confidence of the country in the wisdom or the sagacity of the President. In my opinion the facts will show that that has transpired on his part, so far from weakening, will strengthen the confidence of the country in the President. At the same time my opinion is just as decided that it is unwise to go into. this inquiry.

The honorable Senator from Massachusetts objects to the amendment proposed by the Senator from Delaware, because it is not respectful to the President. Let me ask the honorable Senator than there is, in substance, in his own resolution? what more is these contained in that proposition The Senator from Massachusetts uses different language, admit; but still his inquiry covers the whole ground. It would cover all that may have been said on the subject of amnesty, if anything was said, just as much as the proposition of the Senator from Delaware. His only a difference} in form of expression, not in substance

Mr. President, I shall content myself with voting against the resolution, because I believe it would be unwise to enter into this inquiry.

Mr. MORRILL. This, I believe, is an ordinary resolution of inquiry.

Mr. SUMNER. That is all.

Mr. MORRILL. Ordinary in its terms, courteous in its language, and by no implication that I see arising from it does it charge the President, or can a suspicion arise that anybody here suspects the President to be unwilling to communicate the information he is supposed to have, or that it is in any sense a sinister resolution. Therefore, as an ordinary resolution, in the ordinary form of business, I should vote for it; and so I propose to do.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. The Senator did not confine himself to the remarks made by me on this occasion, but referred to what I said the other day. I think the Senator could not have heard the remarks I made the other day, or he would have understood that I had reference particularly to the Senator from Kentucky [Mr. PowELL] and the Senator from Ohio [Mr. WADE] when charged them with a common purpose to oppose the Administration and destroy the free State of Louisiana.

Mr. MORRILL. If the Senator will allow me, I thought it particularly offensive then, and I think so now, for the Senator to rise and characterize the Senate here as distinguished by radicals and conservatives, especially among his own friends; and that was the whole tone and tenor of his speech the other day. We were classified; some of us were radicals and some of us conserv

Pilate, I believe, applicable particularly to the Senator from Ohio and the Senator from Kentucky. What I complained of then was the general tone of the speech, classifying the Senate, as if there were a body of radical men in this Senate against whom the President of the United States needed to be defended. I think the Senator's speech was obnoxious to that charge, and in that sense offensive.

But I rise to say to my honorable friend from Wisconsin that I do not see any occasion now on this resolution for a championship of the President. I do not think the Senate ought to be putatives, under the general phrase of Herod and in the attitude of being defended against an assault made upon the President; for certainly, from the tenor of the remarks of the honorable Senator from Wisconsin, every Senator here who votes for this resolution must feel that there is an implication that we are in some sense or in some way hostile to the President; that we have not as much confidence in his wisdom, his patriotism, his sagacity to manage public questions, as somebody else has. I feel a little more sensitive on this subject this morning at these remarks, because they are a repetition of the remarks of the same kind made the other day by that Senator. I have never said on this floor anything in any way detrimental to the patriotism or the sagacity or the prudence of the President of the United States. I have felt, and I now feel, as profound a regard for him, I trust, as those who have said a great deal more about it. I insist that there is no occasion on a mere ordinary resolution for putting this Senate in the attitude of voting it upon the idea that a majority of this Senate are not particularly solicitous of the character and feelings of the President of the United States. I do not understand it to be so; and therefore, for one, I object on a mere ordinary resolution of inquiry to being told that it is not wise, that it is a reflection on the President; or, at any rate, that it will be taken for granted that we have not as high a regard and as profound a respect for the President as we ought to have. I rose only to make these remarks.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I mentioned the Senator from Ohio and the Senator from Kentucky, and I did not refer to any other Senator on the floor in the course of my remarks. My reply was made to them, and was intended for them; I meant what I said, and I mean it now. The Senator from Ohio but the other day, in speaking of the Executive, said, "Your Executive lacks blood; he has not got the nerve to carry out and perform his duties as he ought." And particularly was I replying to the Senator from Ohio in reference to the State of Louisiana when I charged upon him and upon the Senator from Kentucky a joint purpose to attack the Administration, and to destroy the free State of Louisiana. Sir, their joint purpose is this: the Senator from Kentucky would keep Louisiana out of the Union until the rebels can vote under its constitution; and the Senator from Ohio would keep her out until the negroes of Louisiana can vote in the formation of her constitution.

Mr. President, that is what I said. I referred Mr. SUMNER. I shall content myself with to those gentlemen; and the Senator from Ohio one single remark. I do not intend to debate this will excuse me when, in reference to this matter, resolution, nor do I intend to reply to the speech I undertook to speak to him and of him, because of the Senator from Wisconsin, a speech that he that Senator, in the course of the last six or eight has made more than once on this floor; but I will months, has undertaken, in a published letter of remind that Senator of a remark from a very his, to charge upon me conspiracy with the Presillustrious person, one of the most eminent men ident to defeat the passage in this House of a cerin the history of the law-I mean the great Chieftain bill in relation to the construction or the reJustice of England, Matthew Hale-who was accustomed very often to say from the bench to very ardent advocates, "Do not jump till you get to the stile." The Senator from Wisconsin would do well if he did not jump so often before he gets to the stile. Sir, when Senators on this floor attack the President of the United States the Senator may well rush forward, as swiftly as is his habit, to defend him.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. The Senator from Massachusetts admitted in his former speech that the amendment offered by the Senator from Delaware was an attack substantially upon the President, and he opposed it for that reason. Wherein consisted that attack? It was simply in this: in putting questions to the President about his conduct. This resolution presented by the Senator from Massachusetts is in different language, it is true, but it is doing precisely that thing. It is the favorite weapon which is made use of whenever a party undertakes to attack an Administration to put them on their examination, to put them on their inquiry, to begin to cross-examine them, "What have you been doing? Render us an account of yourself." That is the substance of it. The Senator from Maine mistakes very much when he supposes that I have said that every person in this Senate who votes for this resolution intends to make an attack upon the President; I say no such thing. I said, or intended to say, no such thing.

Mr. MORRILL. I do not charge the Senator with saying that; but I say that is the inference and inevitable conclusion from the tone of his remarks.

construction of the State of Louisiana and other States.

Mr. WADE. When did I do that?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I mean by the letter published under the Senator's own hand, in which he assumed to say that I had written to the State of Louisiana stating that that bill would be kept back in the Senate of the United States to save the President the necessity of vetoing it. Sir, I ask the gentleman to produce his proof on that subject.

Mr. WADE. Does the Senator deny that he wrote any such letter?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I do. But, Mr. President, is it right for the Senator from Ohio, in a published letter, to say that he is informed by a responsible gentleman that some other gentleman has said in the presence of another gentleman that the Senator from Wisconsin has written a letter to Louisiana in which he says this, and that, and the other thing; and upon evidence like that has the Senator from Ohio the right to undertake, not only to attack the President, but to attack me personally?

Sir, the Senator from Maine [Mr. MORRILL] will understand that when I have reference to anything that he says on this floor I shall speak of what he says and of him. I certainly have not yet referred to him or his action here; but in the speech which I made I spoke of the Senator from Ohio and the Senator from Kentucky.

In relation to this resolution I have only to say what I said in the beginning, that I do not see that it can accomplish any good purpose; it may possibly do harm; and upon the very face of it it

is an inquiry at the present time in relation to the administration of the executive office, which, in my opinion, is unnecessary and unwise.

Mr. WADE. Mr. President, when this debate commenced, I had very little idea of being dragged into it. I did not know that I had anything particularly to do with it. I said nothing about the resolution. I stood the torrent of passion-which the Senator from Wisconsin belched forth upon the Senate the other day in perfect silence. I cared nothing about it. I believed I was right, and the result showed that I had a very large majority of the Senate with me. So believing, I cared but very little what the Senator from Wisconsin might say about it. I did not think that all he could say was worth one moment of the time of this body in reply to it. I did not suppose that either he or myself, in any personal remarks that we could make, would be serving the country so much as we should by allowing the measure then under consideration to pass, and proceeding with the public business. It was not necessary that he should drag up this topic unprovoked, without my saying a word, and turn back to his old controversy and repeat it over again, making it almost necessary for me to get up now and detain the Senate for a few moments.

I ask the Senator and I ask the Senate, why is it that this unprovoked, gratuitous attack should be commenced upon me now, when the Senator had the floor to himself on that occasion, and said all he could say to the Senate, and said it, I suppose, as well as he has said it now? If he harbors any particular malice against me, or if he wants to make it appear that he is the peculiar defender of the President of the United States, and that the President cannot stand alone anywhere unless braced up by such help as that, allow me to say that he has a very much poorer opinion of the President than I have, [laughter,] for I hardly think such props will tend to support him much; and I will give this advice to the President now in my place: "If you are in danger of any attacks, for God's sake select as your defender some man that somebody pays some attention to." I care nothing for the Senator's attacks. I did not reply before, and I am trespassing on the Senate in replying now. Why wake up Rip Van Winkle? The Senator says that a certain letter was published. Sir, in the protest which Mr. DAVIS and myself put forth-I suppose that is what he alluded to-we did say that we were informed that a letter had been written by him down to New Orleans, in which he stated that they intended to postpone that measure till so late in the session that the President would not have time to consider it. That is what we were informed; I have the letter which so informed me, from as good a man as there is in the State of Ohio or elsewhere, and Mr. DAVIS has another letter to the same effect. The Senator very early in the session spoke to me on that subject. I told him that I had such a letter, but that I had not brought it with me, and if he wished to see it I could send home and get it. He did not seem to require that; he did not ask me to do it, and I dropped the subject. That, I suppose, was more than two months ago. Why does he drag it up now? I have done nothing to stir up his malice that I know of. I have not spoken of him or about him, or thought of him. He was not even in my thoughts or in my mind. I care nothing about him any more than I do about anybody else. I bear him no malice, and very little good-will. [Laughter.] I care nothing about him. I do not know why he has waked up now. He has slept about a year on these letters that he complains of, and never before asked me to produce them; he never denied what they contained in all my conversations with him; he never pretended to deny that it was just as the statement was in the letter of Mr. DAVIS and myself. He spoke to me to inquire about the letter. I told him we had such a letter, but that I had it at home and would produce it if necessary. He did not say that he wanted to see it, or I would have sent for it.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Did I not tell the Senator from Ohio distinctly that I had never written to any person in Louisiana on the subject of that bill, and that I had never had a conversation with the President about it until the bill passed?

Mr. WADE. I do not remember that the Senator said so.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. I certainly did.